Thursday, September 13, 2012
Joe Klein schools the cast of Morning Joe about Iran and hands Israel Prime Minister Netanyahu his ass.
This is almost twelve minutes long but I urge you to watch it to better understand why the tension exists between the Obama administration and Netanyahu.
Spoiler alert, the President is on the right side of this.
(H/T to the Atlantic.)
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Listen to Lawrence O'Donnell's last sentence...
ReplyDeleteperfect.
Revisited from Statfor emails earlier this year:
Deletehttp://extremeprejudiceusa.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/wikileaks-emails-indicate-stratfor-discovered-israel-already-destroyed-irans-nuclear-facilities/
“I think this is a diversion. The Israelis already destroyed all the Iranian nuclear infrastructure on the ground weeks ago,” one intelligence official wrote in an email dated November 14, 2011."
Crystal,
DeleteI read all of those things a few months ago, too, and I'm really not sure about this. I mean, I think Assage & Co might be on the up and up on it, but there is the chance that it's false intel that is left accessible to someone who won't question its veracity if he STEALS it from your files; whereas, if it were something that was printed by Judith Miller in the NYT from an anonymous source, it would smell more like a plant.
On the other hand, the fact that nobody in MSM has jumped on it and pushed for it leans my opinion towards the possibility that it's real but it's in no one's interest to acknowledge its truth.
Iran = trying not to tip hand of weakness
Bibi = not wanting to admit he has Moddad intel surveillance and sabotage units going on in other countries because he's not going to want to blow their cover. Just like Bibi has spies throughout our gov't. And we have the CIA and Black Ops and doing joint ops in surveillance with Israeli companies bc they're the best right now
Obama= doesn't want to know for sure if Bibi is doing a backdoor op in Iran, because the US has to maintain some measure of neutrality with the Saudis, Egypt and the others that would get pissed if we overtly supported Israels committing an act of war by aggression and sabotage against a sovereign country
...and on and on
Bottom line: It's good intel or disinformation. But I haven't heard enough from what I consider to be irrefutably credible. How about yourself? Are they that much smarter than us and know it's a hoax and have already written it off? ... or is there just very good containment and effective damage control with the fallout and now any journalists that talk about it are going to be embedded into units that suffer a lot of unfortunate friendly fire?
I'm curious, too.
The Israelis are thugs. They are not our friends, and would sell us out in a second, and have done it before.
ReplyDeleteU.S.S. Liberty.
Never forget.
Again, more anti-semitism coming from the left. Am I going to have to leave my own party because people are too stupid to understand the complexity of a situation? Too lazy to read and really try to understand the issues from both sides. You have no fucking idea what Israelis have had to go through. That is obvious from your stupid and bullying comment. Should we say all Americans are thugs because of the far right?? Do you think every Israeli is a neocon? Stupid..
DeleteI have read a book written by a Palestinian physician whose family was killed in their home while he was working in Israel helping Jews. Are you saying that Israelis are victims? That they are correct in their wretched treatment of these people?
DeleteFuck Israel and it has nothing to do with the fact that most of its people are Jewish. That is completely irrelevant.
DeleteYou would think thought, that being a Jewish state, Israel would not treat the unfortunate Palestinians trying to live within its borders the exact same way Hitler treated its original settlers.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteGrey Lens---
DeleteCome on man. You've got to separate some people in the Israeli government from the people themselves. They're a democracy being governed by a conservative party. 20 years ago it was a different story. No, I'm not exact on the dates and I don't care to be. They go through political cycles just like the US, based on world events and domestic issues like their economy, confidence of the people in certain ideas, etc. For instance, and it's a small thing as far as I'm concerned, but I listened to my goddam party, the GOP argue and politick about gays in the military for too damn long and for what? None of those bastards were trying to talk Israel out of making the decision to allow gays to serve over 20 years ago. And Bill Clinton signed Don't ask, Don't tell. If that ain't some shit, just to appease the fundie-fucking dominionists on the far right of the party that's dragged down the Republican party to being a fucking joke right now! Fucking Herman Cain. Donald Trump! Michelle Bachmann, Rick Perry, Rick Perry, Rick Fucking Frothy Mix Santorum, Newt Gingrich, and Mitt Fucking Moneybags Romney. Get real. None of them had a fucking prayer. Why? Only because about the mafority of the country wouldn't elect any of them EVER. Just like McCain who I voted for in the Primary in 2000 until the fucking rightwing dirtbags knocked him out by this dirty politics shit. Had we known Bush was going to lie about War and nation building and shit like that, Gore would've been the vote because at least we knew Clinton. The fucking hypocrisy on both sides on these issues is sickening.
Generally, I don't like Joe Klien, BUT ANYONE, that schools neo-nut-jobs AND hands Netanyaya his ass, is a friend of mine -FOREVER.
ReplyDeleteDitto. Joe Klein was magnificent. Loved how they started out with him, so adversarially, challenging him to just dare defy their premise that the American leadership was just naturally supposed to jump to old Bibi's tune, or they would want to know why.
DeleteKlein had them quickly changing their tune.
I hate when I'm agreeing with Joe Klein, because it's only about a third of the time. But Joe Klein has Bibi pegged.
DeleteHe's the head of state of one of our allies, not the CiC in charge of the US Foreign Policy. We need to help their country with security--- the People of Israel, not give our blind support to an elected leader who's always banging the goddam war drums. We are not Israel's puppet, and we don't ask them to be ours. They are a sovereign nation. And so are we, goddamit.
If there's a major fuck-up in an operation like that, Bibi would be hanging that around our neck like a chain connected to an anchor. I'm not saying he's evil or a communist or a librul or the devil or anything but that he's not going to stand behind any fucking outcome where he doesn't smell like a rose. Sure, he's smart. And he's savvy. But at the end of the day, he's a fucking politician. And the Likuud Party that he heads is not going to be running the fucking country of Israel forever any more than the Democratic party is here in the US, so we don't need to marry Bibi. He's got to focus on running his country other than a goddam police state. Right now, three-fourths of Mitt Romney's advisers are Bush people. You know who they are? The neocons--- goddam war party who had an idiot that they could push aroush---W--- and Cheney was the real Commander in Chief and the inmates ran the asylum. When the Republican Party has a good, strong candidate, I'll fucking vote for him (or her) more than likely because I have voted GOP all but 2 elections, including Bush in 2000.
But Romney= Bush= more fucking wars = more debt= slow growth = high unemployment = lower tax base = higher taxes
Haven't you fucking baggers learned a goddam thing? Hell no, you're still scared of thye Boogie Man in the White House because Glen Beck told you to be. Get over it!
So yeah, we need to support the people of Israel, but NOT at any costs. You wouldn't let your best friend who's married to your sister totally fuck over his family and throw his life away by having a one night stand with some floozie if you could prevent it, would you?
Well, in this case, your friend doesn't have a car and can't get there if you don't drive him. So what are you going to do?
Drive him because he's a friend?
Or tell him you're not going to be an accessory to a horrible decision for him and everyone else involved?
If I hear this shit about Antisemitism one more fucking time whenever this issue comes up, I'm going to fucking puke.
Do some fucking homework. The Arabs are Semitic people. This has nothing to fucking do with Judaism or Islam any more than it has to do with Christianity or Buddhism.
This is about neoconservative philosophy and and Zionism, most of whom are "religious" and pious only when it's even convenient. Bibi has said himself that it is convenient to use the antisemitism as a cover. Just like racist people accuse others of being racist, because they're so fucking naive that they think if they point the finger first and say it more often, it'll stick and then they can leverage their position.
Yes some people are racist. But that has not a fucking thing to do with this issue!
You are a bit biased without understanding the full picture at all. This is a very complicated situation. Saying who is right and who is wrong is a very naive way of looking at it. If you were Israel, a very very tiny country surrounded by miles and miles of land of enemies, you might be as aggressive as Bibi is. I have family who were born and grew up in Israel and I don't think any one who hasn't lived there can understand the constant threat they are under. And if you start blaming them totally, you really don't get it. I am Jewish and I am noticing more and more liberals (I am liberal) being very against Israel without understanding the whole situation. They think they understand it, but they really don't. The only liberal I have ever seen on TV who really gets the history and the situation is Bill Maher. I am not saying Israel does everything right. They make mistakes and I don't like Bibi either... But honestly you have no idea how complicated this situation is.. And anyone who thinks Iran isn't a threat truly doesn't get it.
ReplyDeleteI don't know how you can listen to one video and insist that the President is right... Do we all really need to keep taking such polarizing sides on every damn issue minimizing how complicated they might be? That is how I feel the right is.
Oh Chill. Netanyahu is a bully, pure and simple. MOST Israeli's despise him. He is carrying on like a little girl. Israel has a gazillion nuclear bombs and yet they want the US to do the dirty work. They are so accustomed to sucking money from us and trying to dictate to us at the same time.
DeleteI am not antisemitic in the least, so don't even think to pull that card. I have close and dear friends who are Israeli, I have spent time in Israel and have spent many hours learning and reading what I can to understand.
I also have Palestinian friends so I understand THAT side of things.
You are clearly emotionally worked up. What Joe said was very accurate. And I'd take his word faster than yours.
Bibi is a dick. He has done all he can to disrespect, bully, embarrass and ridicule our president in the public arena and he should be smacked down for that sort of behavior.
No one is saying Israel is always wrong. No one is saying they are against Israel. I AM saying that Bibi has overstepped his bounds. Period.
As far as Iran, you are just buying into the hype. Since Israel has so many nuclear weapons, why are they acting like such scaredy cats? It's typical right wing behavior on Bibi's part, bully and victim.
I loved Israel when I spent time there. I loved the people I met. But the government SUCKS.
This is not uncommon. I grew up with the message that Russian was bad and scary and then I met some amazing Russian people and grew to love and understand their courage and their heart. But the government SUCKS. See, it's like that.
I also have Persian friends and what Joe says is absolutely the case. Have YOU ever spent time in Iran? Or do you just demonize them the way you are pissing on about the way that poor little Israel is being demonized?
Really, you need to chill and stop being such a reactionary person. My Israeli friend would have a heyday with your blubbering.
The fucking hell you are liberal OR Jewish. You are neither. You're a neocon fundy who supports Israel because of the part if (unfortunately for it!) plays in the (fortunately for it!)(FICTIONAL) Rapture.
DeleteBut if you really are AMERICAN, then you should fucking put AMERICA'S interest's over Israel's and that crazy fucking power mad warmonger Netanyahu.
Oh, and the fucking hell you watched this video either.
Netanyahu's Arrogance
DeleteMaybe this time the Israeli prime minister has gone too far in his bullying and arrogance in dealing with the United States of America—so far as to undermine the habits and attitudes in the United States that have made such swagger possible in the first place. “This time” can refer to Benjamin Netanyahu's attention-getting outburst this week in which he criticized the Obama administration's posture regarding Iran's nuclear program, demanding that the United States impose a clear “red line” and declaring that those who do not impose such lines “don't have a moral right to place a red light before Israel.” The harshness of Netanyahu's blast took aback even some American politicians accustomed to falling in line in the customary way on matters related to Israel. Senator Barbara Boxer of California said in a letter to Netanyahu, as “one of Israel's staunchest supporters in Congress,” that she was “stunned” by Netanyahu's remarks. Boxer is a Democrat who no doubt was also trying to soften any political impact of this latest indication of ill will between the Israeli prime minister and the U.S. president. But her response was still one indication of how far Netanyahu had gone beyond the bounds of what supposedly is a relationship between friends and allies.
“This time” also could refer more generally to the whole warpath-blazing campaign of agitation about the Iranian nuclear program. That campaign clearly is mainly an Israeli thing, and especially a project of Netanyahu and his rightist government. Historians decades from now will be trying to explain how the superpower of the day allowed itself to get so preoccupied with a still-nonexistent weapon in the hands of a second-rate power that, even if the weapon came into existence, could not pose a threat to U.S. interests anywhere near what the preoccupation implies. Israel, with its longstanding and sizable nuclear arsenal of its own as well as its conventional regional military superiority, also does not face a threat that warrants all the agitation and warmongering. Maybe preventing the mere possibility of an Iranian nuclear weapon would mean Israeli leaders would think only once and not twice before the next time they throw their weight and armed might around in Gaza or Lebanon or someplace else. And the drum-beating about Iran does divert attention away from that pesky matter involving political rights and self-determination for Palestinians.
Perhaps there is seeping into the consciousness of more and more informed Americans the realization that Netanyahu—with his drum-beating, his complete rejection (in defiance of the policies of the United States and other Western powers) of the very idea of negotiations with the Iranians, and his demand for red lines—is trying to lead America by the nose into a war that would be profoundly against U.S. interests. And it would be a war fought primarily to maintain Israel's regional nuclear weapons monopoly and—also not in U.S. interests—untrammeled ability to throw its weight around.
more...
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/paul-pillar/netanyahus-arrogance-7472
anon@5:31
DeleteGood comment. Good insight and that helps. Thanks. I agree with what you said about the traditional left and seeming to favor Israel a little less often. My opinion is that it's not that public opinion is switching over against the Jewish people. It's more the dealings of a very conservative government, which one can agree with or disagree and proximity would rule the day on the decision.
There is definitely ignorance on both ends of the US political spectrum, and those on the left who oppose EVERYTHING that is right of center is naive on some issues, and I think that's what you were alluding to with Maher, because the far left-far rt are eons away. I don't agree with him on a few things, but my differences with him are not really ideological in nature. So if I learn something new, my position might edge toward his, and vice versa, but I sincerely believe he's honest, even when he might be on the wrong side of an issue. I respect that. Same with people like George Will on the right, I believe he's not going to tell complete BS just to oppose something. He has facts to support his ideas, not to be partisan, and that's why he and David Brooks and Peggy Noonan get pummeled by many to their right politically for telling the truth, if that makes sense. The people on the extremes of both ends don't want to hear the facts of the truth, they want to tell you what the truth is and only the "facts" that support the truth and shout you down when you try to enlighten them.
What I see happening is more on the left are digging in their heels in opposition to the disinfo that the right has been able to make a lot of folks trust bc of access to international media and more real-time information.
When governments do stupid things that or have to act contrary to stated policy or even international because of a "particular anomaly" or in a "grey area", in years past, the President could tell a white lie or have the press be more malleable and "play ball", but they don't do that anymore and "because I said so" doesn't cut it, and I think the GOP has been afraid of the "pragmatic secular governing policy" versus the " religious-faith-based government policy" that causes conflicts and alienates people on things they shouldn't be debating about public policy.
But it's the nature of the beast of government that coalitions are based on power first, ideology second... and personal convictions is way on down the list, as Mitt is showing all too well how to pander to everybody and have nobody trust you.
Bibi isn't a prick because he's a Jew and he's not a prick because he's a politician. He's not even a prick because he's conservative. He's a prick just because he is just that way, but that's just how some people are. "Friends" like that are allies often. It can be respectful without being an endearing relationship.
But Israel and US are probably more like family in that we're not going anywhere or going to abandon them. But we do get tired of the whining and bitching when Bibi doesn't want to listen to OUR problems and pacify us with a 6 pack of beer. He wants to do all of the talking.
Like a personality conflict, and he needs a good friend that will tell him "NO" when it's the best thing and he has to listen and be respectful or he has to be willing to do stuff alone that we think is stupid and not in OUR best interests.
Not that I mind BiBi asking, but don't do a Sarah Palin kicking up dirt and throwing rocks at us and expect us to all make you a pie and ask you if you're still mad at us. That passive-aggressive "I'm a victim" BS is offensive and a waste of time.
Mitt met with Bibi & Adelson was with them when Mitt went to Israel on his feckless foreign trip.
DeleteBibi wants Mitt in office & he's doing his part to hurt PBO.
People who want war are cheering bibi on & people who don't have an interest in war are not cheering him.
I don't get the impression bibi even likes mitt, doesn't matter, they're both with neocons & want the ultimate goal of war!
War is big money and power for some.
I hope Netanyahu gets voted out of office. I really don't think the people of Israel like this guy much, especially not the young and informed people.
ReplyDeleteI think he's looking pretty good, as the opposition appears fractured. But I am at least a month behind on new info re Bibi re-election status. There some political division between his defense people, and I think he's bristled because some of them have reassured journalists in our media that Obama is giving them proper support on security and military, and Bibi would rather they speak with his voice. Which I can understand, but they're a democracy, so those people are going to speak out. But what rankled Bibi is that he was trying to shade the RW media slant here towards the fact that there was more underlying tension and the Obama campain put the minister of defense in Israel on the spot and he and a couple of others made statements that left egg on Bibi's face, but that's just politics. Obama has to be re-elected just as Bibi does, so if Bibi is going to play the "Obama isn't supporting the Jews" card, POB will force his hand to do it based on facts, not off the record statements. That was before the Lybia uprising thing in the past few days, BTW. If Bibi tries to exploit this to help Mitt, it's going to hurt either his creds or the working relationship in Washington and Tel Aviv. THAT doesn't help Israel, but Bibi's got to do more that go around with his chest puffed out. I'm sure it's not a way to make someone your best friend by going into his neighborhood and putting signs in yards for his competition and lining up fundraisers, etc. But those are political issues, not security issues, and Bibi has but his money on the horse Mitt is riding---- the one that went backwards when the gates opened. Such is life.
DeleteLego hair was on Hanity talking abt democracy and foreign policy. LOL
ReplyDeleteI can't wait to read the transcript and so I can earn some CPE credits. She's a piece of work.
DeleteWas Lego Hair In a nightgown, on Drolling Hannity? they both Were fuming alike wild crazy boar.
ReplyDeleteI am only a pundit Gyphen. I agree with every word Joe Klein said. I have always maintained since all this started. "If America enters this nonsense with Netanyahu, they better be prepared to go it alone,
ReplyDeletebecause not other Country in the world will be dragged along.
Draw the line in the sand, Netanyahu doesn't even draw the lines with Palestine. He is a bully who uses the now a days Republican motto Peace by Strength. That is why your President is so popular around the world. Diplomacy before the bomb.
Sarah just crawled out of bed, put on her nasty wig, but forget to take off her bed jacket.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mediaite.com/tv/sarah-palin-obama-administration-is-promoting-democracy-in-nations-that-do-not-share-values-with-civilized-societies/
Anonymous6:20 PM
DeleteThanks for the link! I don't think she showered...shaved or even brushed her pearly yellows! The wig looked like it was plopped on her giant head....BACKWARDS! The nightgown was truly UGLY...but then it matched her FACE...so maybe that was the look she was going for!
Look...I'm just going to say it....watching InSannity and Baldy snapping and snarling over President Obama had me thinking that those two nuts woould love to see the Presidents "stick grow"!
They are two of the most sexually frustrated individuals that I have ever seen! Yeah...I heard InSannity is married...but that don't mean shit...look at Baldy...we all know she ain't getting anything (Hi Toad!).
And as far as what she was babbling.....MEH!
‘Our Condolences,’ the Muslim Brotherhood Says
ReplyDeleteToday’s world is a global village; nations are closer than ever before. In such a world, respect for values and figures — religious or otherwise — that nations hold dear is a necessary requirement to build sustainable, mutually beneficial relationships.
Despite our resentment of the continued appearance of productions like the anti-Muslim film that led to the current violence, we do not hold the American government or its citizens responsible for acts of the few that abuse the laws protecting freedom of expression.
In a new democratic Egypt, Egyptians earned the right to voice their anger over such issues, and they expect their government to uphold and protect their right to do so. However, they should do so peacefully and within the bounds of the law.
The breach of the United States Embassy premises by Egyptian protesters is illegal under international law. The failure of the protecting police force has to be investigated.
We are relieved that no embassy staff in Cairo were harmed. Egypt is going through a state of revolutionary fluidity, and public anger needs to be dealt with responsibly and with caution. Our condolences to the American people for the loss of their ambassador and three members of the embassy staff in Libya.
We hope that the relationships that both Americans and Egyptians worked to build in the past couple of months can sustain the turbulence of this week’s events. Our nations have much to learn from each other as we embark on building the new Egypt.
KHAIRAT EL-SHATER
Deputy President, Muslim Brotherhood
Cairo, Sept. 13, 2012
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/14/opinion/our-condolences-the-muslim-brotherhood-says.html
Much respeck to those who put reason and human decency ahead of political posturing to highlight the differences and issues on the table that are between governments and not their citizens. Much better than acting all happy because some of the other guys people got killed, like some even in our own society trying to use it as a campaign message. Bad form, Mitt, Ann Coulter. Small-minded and without regard to being adult when it's the only option for civilized people.
DeleteBenjamin Netanyahu has had his share of run-ins with the White House through the years. But his public outburst earlier this week over America’s unwillingness to issue an ultimatum to Iran has prompted some of the harshest American criticism of an Israeli leader in decades.
ReplyDeleteThe censures include a sharply worded letter from a U.S. senator, a withering editorial by the former executive editor of The New York Times, and a raft of other denunciations from analysts and officials, including those ordinarily sympathetic to Israel’s positions.
The common thread in much of the commentary: that Netanyahu is maligning President Obama (though not by name) in order to influence the outcome of the U.S. election in favor of Mitt Romney, the Republican candidate.
While Netanyahu denied the charge and has since softened his tone, the episode marked further deterioration in his relationship with the U.S. administration, and it could well have adverse consequences for the Israeli leader if Obama is reelected in November.
“It appears that you have injected politics into one of the most profound security challenges of our time—Iran’s illicit pursuit of nuclear weapons,” wrote Barbara Boxer, the Democratic senator from California, in a note addressed to Netanyahu’s office.
“I am stunned by the remarks that you made this week regarding U.S. support for Israel. Are you suggesting that the United States is not Israel’s closest ally and does not stand by Israel? Are you saying that Israel, under President Obama, has not received more in annual security assistance from the United States than at any time in its history?” she wrote, striking a tone that is almost never heard on Capitol Hill when it comes to Israel.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/14/has-bibi-netanyahu-s-criticism-of-obama-s-iran-policy-gone-too-far.html
Fuck Israel, they can take care of themselves. They have won 4 wars, they can handle it. How many of their spies have we caught? remember they stole cluster bomb technology from us. No more 3 Billion a year in support. Don't forget as someone mentioned the USS Liberty. They treat the Palestinians like shit. Just a bunch of bullies who want the USA to do their dirty work.
ReplyDelete