More than 1,000 pastors are planning to challenge the IRS next month by deliberately preaching politics ahead of the presidential election despite a federal ban on endorsements from the pulpit.
The defiant move, they hope, will prompt the IRS to enforce a 1954 tax code amendment that prohibits tax-exempt organizations, such as churches, from making political endorsements. Alliance Defending Freedom, which is holding the October summit, said it wants the IRS to press the matter so it can be decided in court. The group believes the law violates the First Amendment by “muzzling” preachers.
“The purpose is to make sure that the pastor -- and not the IRS -- decides what is said from the pulpit,” Erik Stanley, senior legal counsel for the group, told FoxNews.com. “It is a head-on constitutional challenge.”
Stanley said pastors attending the Oct. 7 “Pulpit Freedom Sunday” will “preach sermons that will talk about the candidates running for office” and then “make a specific recommendation.” The sermons will be recorded and sent to the IRS.
Personally I think this is an AWESOME idea! And I hope the IRS reacts by taking their holier than thou asses straight to court!
Let's face it ministers have been preaching politics to the bleating sheep of their congregations for decades anyhow, so why not finally put this to the test?
My fervent desire, and no I have no real expectation that this will happen, is that the government respond to this challenge by passing laws that allow the IRS to rescind the tax exempt status of ALL churches.
Originally the decision not to tax churches was to protect them from government control, but since in today's America is seems that churches are doing everything they can to control government, I say the gloves should be off.
Just IMAGINE for a minute the influx of money the government would immediately have on hand if we started to tax churches. Hell who needs to start taxing the top 1% when Uncle Sam can simply tap into their share of the billions of dollars flowing into churches every week?
P.S. By the way there is at least one church that does pay its way, and it happens to be in Anchorage.
I agree. The Catholic bishops have been dictating policy for years. Look at the flap over contraception being part of a policy offered by the chirch. No one asks the chirch to pay for a damn thing, and they turned this into 'government control. Let's show them government control.
ReplyDeleteChirch?
DeleteThis is something new? They've been doing it forever, since slimy televangelists embraced by President's and legislators became campaign stunts.
ReplyDeleteI'm making the fearless prediction that the IRS will not have the balls to take on these hypocritical churches.
ReplyDeleteIf they surprise me and do, it'll go to the supreme court. And unless a couple of them, like Thomas and Scalia, have kicked the bucket by then and been replaced with real justices, the SC will rule in favor of the churches' "freedom of speech." The freedom the rest of us deserve from literally subsidizing it, be damned.
I share your opinion. I don't think the IRS will do it and I think there is enough money riding on this to scramble to get some laws passed to give them tax breaks. The religious lobby will be found to be as powerful and rich as the gun lobby.
DeleteThis isn't a First Amendment issue. It's a tax issue. Churches have always been able to say what they want - but then they just have to pay taxes. This is going to be fun!
ReplyDeleteI will for once be in an RCC church with teh recording device. it's a brand new HUGE mausoleum - ugly as shit, had to have a zoning exemption cause they wanted to have the highest towers. They "kept" their old "prime real estate corner " church for stuff like weddings, cause the new mausoleum is so big, everyone felt lost using it for a small wedding or funeral. The Pastor is an arrogant dictatorial prick. Soooooooo hoping he endorses someone. Taxes on that place would really help my town - like build some new parks for EVERYONE to use, and likely retire a school building referendum debt in half the time.
Where are those Constitution-waving teabaggers when we really need them? These pastors wipe their asses with the First Amendment on a daily basis.
ReplyDeleteI sincerely hope the unintended consequence is a years-long review of tax-exempt religious entities that ends with loss of tax-exempt status. That would be great.
ReplyDeleteNo one is "muzzling pastors". They are free to speak their minds anywhere, anytime. They just can't expect their bully pulpits to be subsidized by the government.
Along with that will come the decision (assuming the churches lose their tax exempt status) that donations to churches are no longer a "charitable deduction". Poor Mitt -- he'll lose the deduction for all his donations. Of course people like my mother will quit donating to the church as well. So much for the RWNJ's and their "the church will take care of the poor" philosophy.
ReplyDeleteAs someone who sometimes gets pissy about Gryphen's religious sniping, I am in full agreement with him here. Those megachurches need to share some profits.
ReplyDeleteIf the IRS goes after these morons,the churches and all the right wing Christians will use it as a clarion call against the government. They'll declare Obama is the devil and the dummies will go into an uproarious furor like you've never seen. It will not be pretty. I was once a fundie and I know these types. Ugh.
ReplyDeleteToo late. They already ARE calling Obama the devil!
DeleteWell if these pastors believe that this issue will end up before the Supreme Court they are in for a rude awakening.
ReplyDeleteThey will have to appear in Federal Tax Court. That's right. Oops there are special courts that only deal with specific topics such as bankruptcy and tax.
These Pastors will have to hire special tax lawyers who only practice before the Federal Tax Court. That's IF they can convince any tax lawyer to represent them. Well there are the lawyers
representing Soveriegn Citizens and other wacky tax dodgers.
And if they represent themselves they will lose. Tax Court is the least lenient of them all.
Might as well stock up on popcorn.
And they better be grateful.
DeleteThere are some countries (Mexico and Germany come to mind) where if the church gets involved in politics it's a criminal offense. A church could be disbanded and the pastor or priest go to prison for preaching politics from the pulpit.
Bring it on.
ReplyDeleteNo one is muzzling preachers. They can preach anything they want, including politics.
HOWEVER, if the CHOOSE to do so, then they will lose their tax exempt status.
Is preaching politics worth paying taxes? You gotta pay to play. They better pony up. Because they are going to LOSE this one.
Do these idiots really think the IRS moves fast enough that this would become an issue before the election? Have they looked at the calendar? Maybe by 2016.
ReplyDeleteI'd love to see then lose their tax-exempt status, too, Gryph, although like you I don't expect it to happen.
Here's another church related "free speech" issue you may not have heard of: About a year ago, New Orleans passed a law making it illegal to spout religious or political crap on Bourbon Street after dark (the Christianists loved to go stand outside bars with their crosses and yell, "Repent!"). The city outlawed it on the basis that Bourbon is very crowded and rowdy, and it was the equivalent of yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater. So now they've arrested ten of them, and the religious right is gearing up to fight it under the First Amendment.
I so hope this eventually will go AGAINST the churches pulling this crap! That is why 'christians' are becoming less and less of the population in the USA.
DeleteWe have a fine example of a preacher here in Anchorage pulling this stuff and his name is Jerry Prevo! He and his wife live high off the hog and the 'followers' in his church keep giving him the money. Idiots!!!
Hopefully, sometime in our future we'll see the true 'church and state' division take place.
Our national debt would be taken care of in 10 yrs if we tax the churches.
ReplyDeleteTen years? I would be willing to bet it could be less considering the TRILLIONS of dollars in real estate alone they control.
DeleteI would dearly love to know just what that figure is, by the way. Gryph? Got any idea?
Maybe these churches should have consulted a lawyer first. The churches can certainly endorse political candidates. But they cannot be exempt from tax if they do. They won't go far in court and they should have their tax exemption revoked. Good result.
ReplyDeleteYou are mistaken here. Things have changed. They have consulted a lawyer. Probably the Thomas More Law Center.
DeleteThey want this issue decided by the US Supreme Court. This issue is probably another Citizens United in the making.
Yesterday I was watching a local channel and this minister or pastor came on and said there is about 40 days until the election- let's all pray for the right cannidate and on Oct 6 ( I think that was the date) he will tell who to vote for. I almost fell out of my chair. The older i get the more and more i can see all the hypocrecy in religion. These so called ministers are just really motivational speakers and found out how much money is in religion. It came to a fore front with Tammy and Jim bakeer and all the excess but lived like kings and queens. This is where the ideamoney money money god doesn't want us to be poor. Now it's big GREED GREED. Grifting
ReplyDeleteIt is about time...just think about the Mormons raking in millions and millions tax free to invest in land, buildings, business...you name it. It is an idea I think most people would be behind...I hope it goes forward. I have always felt the Catholics really get a bad deal supporting all the fancy churches, dresses and jewels...omg the pomp and circumstance costs a fortune.
ReplyDeleteThis test has not been well conceptualized. The IRS doesn't sue. It simply removes your protected tax status. A year, 2 years, 3 years from now, the church will get a staggering bill for back taxes. Then the letter will arrive rescinding the tax status. At this point the Churches have to sue the IRS, tying the matter up in court for many more years. In the meantime, each congregation can kiss their individual tax deductions for charitable contributions "bye bye." AND see everything they contribute to the church go toward legal fees.
ReplyDeleteIf I worked for the IRS, I'd say "bring it on. The U.S. government can use the revenue."
I suspect the IRS will do nothing.
ReplyDeletehttp://projectfairplay.org/act/violation/
I hope I'm wrong; this is a terrible violation of our Constitution.
The issue is "endorse". You can preach politics from the pulpit, as long as you don't specifically say "Go forth and vote for Obama" (or whoever).
ReplyDeleteWhat maroons.
If churches don't pay taxes, who picks up their share? WE DO!
ReplyDeleteWell, these comments are confirmation that the people of this country have lost all understanding of freedom and are willing to give it up to the Government. Further, it is all in the name of either ultra-liberalism or ultra-conservatism neither of which has an eye on protecting the freedoms of any of us. Just because the religious in this country don't want, what they perceive as immoral, the leadership of the left doesn’t give you or the IRS the right to shut them down. What the IRS and most of you are saying is if you don't want Obama as president and you say it out loud you will be taxed for your belief. Well excuse others for not holding your beliefs. We have lost all common sense in America and appear to be hell bent on forcing people to live under either the totalitarian rule of the left or the right. Whatever happened to live and let live? It is time to wake up as we Americans have allowed ourselves to be divided by external forces with a design on global control. If any of us were paying attention we could see this and realize that this country is dividing internally over nothing more than ideology. However, when it comes to external global issues both political parties, being on the same page, are pushing us ever closer to the cliff of global governance. Well, I for one am not willing to give up my freedoms over a difference of opinion but if you are just keep it up, demand nothing from your politicians and prove that divide and conquer is still a valid tactic for conquering the ignorant.
ReplyDeleteCase in point, your comments have to be approved in order to be posted thereby filtering out any differing opinion. This shields you from the uncomfortable knowledge that there is a bigger picture that you have been blinded to and guarantees the division of American. Wake up!
ReplyDeletePulpit Freedom Sunday Sermon
ReplyDeleteI want maximum exposure for this! Please share.
“Children of The Beast”
By Reverend Sam Sewell
This sermon and clergyman support
“Pulpit Freedom Sunday”
The full text of Rev. Sewell’s sermon is at the link below
The overt defiance of the IRS is in the last paragraph.
http://beastchildren.blogspot.com/
This weekend (Oct. 7) is “Pulpit Freedom Sunday” in churches across the country. Pastors in pulpits across the country will not only endorse candidates from the pulpit, but will also send the tapes of the services directly to the IRS. Now that’s bold!