The Church currently pays tax on several properties it owns that are commercial enterprises but is exempt if at least some of the activities on the property are "non-commercial" - for example a chapel in a hotel.
"The regulatory framework will be definite by January 1, 2013 - the start of the fiscal year - and will fully respect the (European) Community law," Prime Minister Mario Monti's government said in a statement late Tuesday.
In February, the government had amended Italy's property tax law to end the Church's privileges amid rising calls for the Vatican to share in debt crisis sacrifices and in the face of intense scrutiny from the European Commission.
On Monday the Council of State, Italy's highest ranking court for administrative litigation, rejected the decree. But the government insisted everyone would pay property tax, Church included.
Way to go Italy!
I literally dream of the day when the churches in America are stripped of their tax exempt status and made to pay their fair share to support the services, like street repair, police support, and firefighters, which they currently enjoy for free.
By the way taxing the churches would bring in an additional 71 billion annually and essentially pay down this country's debts in no time at all. Just think about that for awhile.
It might pay down the debt in no time but congress would find something else to spend it on. I'm almost convinced that they don't want us out of debt PERIOD.
ReplyDeleteDid you overlook that loophole?
ReplyDeleteThey'll put a chapel in every one of those taxable properties, thus making them exempt.
If they have to, they'll assign a nun, monk or priest to visit each one at least once a week to pray or do a mass or something.
Just wait.
mlaiuppa, you are describing the current situation, which is set to end on January 1.
DeleteThe Council of State rejected the government's decree.
DeleteI'm not holding my breath. Italy is very Catholic and they'll side with the Pope before their own elected officials.
The church is still powerful and I don't see them paying any taxes any time soon.
I think most churches these days are profit driven machines out to accumulate wealth. There is no reason that they shouldn't pay taxes, just like any other profit driven business does. I say tax them! When you see these mega churches with all their wealth, the preachers living in mansions, driving expensive cars, draped in gold and jewels... well, lets just say I have NO respect for them.
ReplyDeleteamen I think the same thing.
DeleteWe lived in Georgia, and I saw first hand the "business" of the Evangelical Christian Church (We did not attend this church). They had gymnastics classes, daycare, dance classes, motivational speakers, BBQ nights, exercise classes, etc. You should have seen the size of the parking lots!! And of course, it was our polling place for our area. Shameful.
DeleteYikes! I too find that shocking. It is happening everywhere. Most of the Methodist churches in California have the same thing going — including vaccination clinics that aren’t any cheaper than anywhere else! Anything to get the people in and saved. Saved from what? I always wonder.
DeleteWhen the pastors and priests started telling congregations how to vote, their tax free status should have been revoked. Look at all the bingo games and casino nights the churches profit from, while talking about the evils of gambling. The Mormon church owns many, many properties that should be taxed, right along with the other churches.
ReplyDeleteYep, the Mormon church owns all kinds of commercial ventures, including a multi-billion dollar shopping mall in downtown Salt Lake.
DeleteAnd then they use some of that money to fight political battles, like defeating Prop 8.
do you know how many churches would shut down...churches are the greatest system for money laundering there is...oh please tax the shit out of churches!!!
ReplyDeleteAll forms of religion today are nothing but commercial enterprises. Tax the bastards!
ReplyDeleteagree..agree!
ReplyDeleteStaying anonymous as a pastor's wife...But please let me assure you all that there are plenty of churches that are not 'money laundering' or 'commercial enterprises'. Our little church, which has partnered with the state food bank to provide food for locals (not just church members) and which hosts a safe 'teen night' kind of thing twice a month and which has done several service projects around our small town, would be hard pressed to pay much in taxes and keep up the mission work that we do here. Our members are hard working 'regular' folks who cannot afford to give much in the first place and my husband willing took a pay cut to help relieve some of the financial strain our church is feeling in this recession.
ReplyDeleteChurches are not all evil, not all money grubbing, not all butting into politics. Some of us definitely agree with separation of church and state and think the current Republican party behaves *nothing* like Jesus would. There are plenty that are horrible, for sure, but please don't lump us all together. Peace.
Please, put down your persecution perspective. You know very well this issue is NOT about the small church pastorates. This is about mega churches with mega dollars.
DeleteNot feeling persecuted, just trying to share the 'other side'. But, if you re-read the first few comments, you'll see that several posters were not making that distinction between small and large churches.
Delete"I think most churches these days are profit driven machines out to accumulate wealth."
"churches are the greatest system for money laundering there is"
"All forms of religion today are nothing but commercial enterprises. Tax the bastards!"
Staying Anonymous because I might hurt someone's feelings.
DeleteI understand that small churches have to pay for light, heat, electricity, building maintenance, decorating, clothing, food, office supplies, advertising and all the things regular businesses and regular people do, but what's the basis for taking advantage of the tax exempt status in the first place?
I'd LOVE to run a business where people volunteer their time and money to pay my bills and cut my overhead, then have a tax exempt number on top of free labor.
Why do our Tax dollars, time, resources and troops have to be used to go "rescue" missionaries in foreign countries peddling their bibles and selling their religion in dangerous places overseas?
Why do "pastors" like Terry Jones get these perks?
I'd like to know how so many ppl in the churches use those tax numbers. How many of us have been in line and the purchaser doesn't even have the letter or any info the store has to take the time to find the number. I'm sure just like everything else there is a lot of fraud and waste, in the name of religion.
DeleteNo, they're not. And I have no problem with your church remaining tax exempt.
DeleteAs long as your husband refrains from preaching politics from the pulpit and your church keeps to his religious business and keeps it's nose out of politics.
Once that line is crossed, they should be taxed like any other secular corporation.
The only thing that worries me about this with regard to Italy is the magnificent art treasures that these churches house. Some of the most amazing and famous art in the world is housed within churches and church museums there. These must all be maintained and cared for and this must be paid for. If the church completely loses its tax status, people really WILL be paying to go to church, and tourists will be gouged to see the treasures of the ages. I'd rather some tax deal be worked out with regard to church properties over there.
ReplyDeleteMy oldest and her husband just got back from a trip to Rome. Just Rome (not counting the other church properties beyond Rome)is amazing. They showed us their pictures and I was totally awestruck. I would hate it if such art was unavailable for the world -- for people of ALL religions or none -- to see.
The Church of Rome is probably the richest institution in the world. With their investments monetary and real estate, they could easily house and maintain their treasures.
DeleteActually, we paid to go into all the cathedrals in Europe. None are free.
DeleteBeen there, done that, got the tee shirt. The Vatican isn't part of Italy, Yet Italy pays for the infrastructure with it's tax dollars, and Italy surrounds and is helped greatly by the tourism business.
DeleteThe antiquities owned by the Vatican were mostly stolen from around the world during the Crusades through the Holy Roman Empire, or paid for by Patrons and Parishioners. They have tons of stolen gold, diamonds, money etc in vaults and buildings not open to the public, most of the "art" displayed are fakes.
They own billions yet pay no taxes, and they charge a fee to see almost everything. I'm sure they have tons in blind trusts and swiss bank accounts unaccounted for as well.
They already are.
DeleteI had to pay to enter a church to see their "treasures". It was no voluntary. I was not a member and so I had to make an involuntary donation. I also could not take any photos but had to buy the poor quality crap photos they were selling. They degraded within a few years and are totally worthless now.
It is one thing for churches to promote a certain code of conduct for their members. It is entirely another when they attempt to enact legislation which is in accordance with their set of standards, whether or not the rest of society agrees.
ReplyDeleteThey are not a sanctuary of spirituality. They are plain and simple a business on a mission to further an agenda that is beneficial to a select few within said organization.
Tax them! And make it hurt!
I agree.
DeleteSmall churches would have to close, but those mega-churches, BABY, let them pay! I totally agree. There are mega-churches enjoying tax-free status while they promote political candidates AND have malls attached to the church to provide food and shopping for their church attendees. I call bullshit on the tax-free status.
ReplyDeleteAnd television broadcast stations that as a Direct TV subscriber cannot get off my to-view list. And, I am also sick of paying for infomercials too. Actually, aren’t they are the same thing?
DeleteThat'll get the Pope's panties bunched up!
ReplyDeleteThe Catholic Church for centuries has been in the business of making itself incalculably rich. Expect major hiding of assets, switching of property ownerships, etc. And a whole lot of screeching and whining from the pulpit - they will not take this quietly.
In Alaska - Anchorage specifially, we have a Baptist Church (large) that owns numerous properties,is governed by a Jerry Prevo, who is the preacher that ALWAYS leads from the pulpit w/a Republican slant.
ReplyDeleteI've always been of the opinion he works the system to his personal benefit as well as his church (that he started years ago) - mixes church and state and should NOT have the tax exemption for all of his properties (which include properties owned by teachers in the school they run - if you can friggin' believe that!).
Time to take ALL churches off the tax rolls - most especially the Alaska Baptist Temple in Anchorage, AK.
Prevo's hair is always carefully done (be fun to see that specific bill on a monthly basis)and I'll bet he gets manicure and pedicures on a regular basis. I'd also love to see he and his wife investigagted by the IRS and Municipality of Anchorage (re: real estate tax exemptions) personally as will as his church, school, properties of his teachers for the school and his son.
Prevo is a world-class shyster. He always flies first class out of and in to Alaska. I see him all the time. What a showman.
DeleteAll I can say is: "Way to go, Italy!". I just hope, they do it to ALL RELIGIOUS INSTALLATIONS (i.e. temples, synagogues, etc, of ALL FAITHS) - NOT just the Catholic church
ReplyDelete9-25-12 Gryphen wrote of Pulpit Sunday upcoming Oct- 1000 pastors challenging the government by preaching sermons about politics and sending the sermons to the govt. saying sue me - I can do what I want and still maintain tax exempt status.
ReplyDeleteIt turns out there were 1500 and they named political parties and candidates for the membership to vote for then sent their sermons to the IRS.
All "churches" and "cults" should lose their tax exempt status. I do not like paying for their properties and all other provisions they use.
Further the archbishop in Spgfld Il sent out material telling the catholics they jeopardize their salvation by voting for Obama.
This is all bullshit.
You want me to believe there is a loving god out there somewhere who permits young girls to be raped, tortured, children starved by the millions, priests and leaders permitted to repeatedly molest young boys, wars ravaging innocent people, weather that drowns, destroys and maims individuals?
That is a god supposedly responsible for those acts worshiped and revered by multitudes and religious folk want me to join in idolizing a supposed being who permits those horrors to happen ongoing to creatures he is credited with creating?
If that is so then why aren't we worshiping the criminals in prison who have tortured, killed, maimed and violated other humans?
Doesn't make sense? I didn't think so.
Nothing like making it easy for the IRS.
DeleteTax courts are different than regular courts.
I hope the IRS makes a list, checks it twice, then takes all the naughty scoflaws to court, revokes their tax exempt status and then hands them a bill.
Good luck appealing that.
Go Italy!!!, and I hope others wake up and smell the hypocrisy!! The Vatican gets all the bling, when the people have to pay taxes for the infrastructure that surrounds the Vatican.
ReplyDelete