According to S., orders to open fire address situations of a clear and present danger and only if there is a person with the means and intent to kill. "But what is an angry mob throwing stones and sometimes rocks at you if not a life threatening situation? I wouldn't order opening fire at a crowd of people but we can't have a situation where you stand in front of a person with a rock and start to ask yourself is this person life threatening. If I shoot at him I go to jail."
T., a combatant in an infantry brigade, also claims that soldiers are not equipped to handle the complex situation on the ground. "There's nothing more humiliating for a combatant than to see his friends run," he says.
He criticizes the army for sending such a small group of soldiers to Qaddum on Friday at a particularly volatile time.
T. says the cameras on the ground undermine the forces' efforts. "A commander or an officer sees a camera and becomes a diplomat, calculating every rubber bullet, every step. It's intolerable, we're left utterly exposed. The cameras are our kryptonite."
So to be clear, the problem is that with the Palestinians now more capable of documenting atrocities against them, it makes it a hardship on the Israeli troops to dish out those atrocities.
Uh huh. And remember this is taking place on the West Bank, which is essentially land now occupied by the Israelis that the Palestinians historically believe to be their birthright, and which 164 countries refer to as "Occupied Palestinian Land."
Boy it just sucks having to treat human beings like human beings doesn't it?
Here perhaps I can offer the Israelis a little advice. "You know if there is something that you want to do to another human being, that you DON'T want captured on video, perhaps you shouldn't be doing it in the first place. I'm just saying."
(H/T to The Electronic Intifada.)
And in related news:
ReplyDeleteIsrael is suspected of carrying out a series of leaks implicating Iran in nuclear weapons experiments in an attempt to raise international pressure on Tehran and halt its programme.
Western diplomats believe the leaks may have backfired, compromising a UN-sanctioned investigation into Iran's past nuclear activities and current aspirations.
The latest leak, published by the Associated Press (AP), purported to be an Iranian diagram showing the physics of a nuclear blast, but scientists quickly pointed out an elementary mistake that cast doubt on its significance and authenticity. An article in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists declared: "This diagram does nothing more than indicate either slipshod analysis or an amateurish hoax."
Wow. Kind of like the GOP saying what they really intend to do to screw the American people next, and then getting mad because someone filmed them and sent it out. Yup. Maybe you'd better rethink the strategy if it doesn't hold up under scrutiny.
ReplyDelete"essentially land now occupied by the Israelis that the Palestinians historically believe to be their birthright"
ReplyDeletethere was never a land called Palestine. There was no "Arab Palestinian" history before the Arabs manufactured one shortly after 1948, and then especially after the June 1967 Arab-Israeli War.
Jews and Israelis ruled in the Land of Israel(this was the official name of this land before the Romans launched the name "Palestine") for over a 1000 years, since 1750BCE to 598 BCE.
Spoken like a true Zionist. How about we test everyone's DNA and if that DNA is the same as the DNA found on coprses dating back prior to the Roman Empire occuping the land, then those people regardless of where they live now or what they look like or if they are called Israelis, Jews, Palestinines, or Arabs, they get to stay and the everyone else has to leave. Would that work for you?
DeleteProbably not ... shameful.
Okay, so there was no modern state of Palestine. That does NOT change the facts of what the current Israelis are doing to the people who lived on those lands prior to the Israeli state of today. They are stealing the land from the arab families who lived there for many generations. First they drive them off (if the families are lucky and they don't get murdered!) and then Israel claims it as abandoned land.
DeleteAnd I would be willing to bet that you have not spent one minute looking into the grievances of the Arab peoples prior to the Yom Kippur War.
Israel died as a country. They can't take it back based on the fact they USED to live there! That would force US to give back the North American continent to the native Americans with that stupid logic.
Israel has always been the aggressor no matter if it's Egypt, Iran, or the Palestinian's. The way Israel has moved onto the Palestinian's land has been particularly eggresous. I have never believed we should treat them as a special country which no doubt is the main reason the Middle East hates us. I believe we have been wrong for supporting Israel unconditionally, and hopefully the Republicans are right for a change, that Obama is standing up to them more than the past Republican Presidents have.
ReplyDeleteI agree with nearly everything you have said. Israel is the spoiled bully on the block.
DeleteDitto and Amen!
DeleteNow for the question of the hour: Will it make a difference?
ReplyDeleteAnswer: Not with Netanyahu in office and people like him.
Anyone around here under the false impression that Israeli women, seniors and children have not also been subjected to careless and indiscriminate carnage from missiles and bombings during this long period of Israeli/Palestinian strife????
ReplyDeleteAmerica supplies the munitions to Israel. They kill 100 Palestinians for every Jew killed by the tiny bombs that Palestine lobs. So, no, no equality between Jew bombs (from America, Fuck YEA, we suck so badly....) and the tiny firecrackers that the Palestinians have.
DeleteIsraeli soldiers = terrorist occupiers.
ReplyDeleteIDF = terrorist organization.
Israeli settlers = terrorist squatters/land thieves. 'nuff said.
The behaviour of the current Israeli government leaves me no other option than to say, Hitler may have been right.
DeleteThat is a truly offensive statement. I agree that what the Israeli govt is doing is absolutely wrong, but to say that all innocent Jews should be murdered in cold blood is disgraceful.
DeleteI look at the situation and all I see is a group of people who are angry that they have no State. Instead of working with those willing to help them, they sent rockets into Israel. I'm not comfortable with that. Therefore, I feel that Israel and Israelis have a much better defense. Their government nor their military attack innocent civilians; a faction of Palestinians, however, do not care where their rockets land, nor whether innocent Israeli children die.
ReplyDeleteSome people close their eyes to the details of this mess. Unfortunately, the innocent Palestinians are used by their own people, who use them as collateral damage just to make themselves look like victims. It's psychological warfare, and Israel is desperately caught between a rock and a hard place; defending their own, and trying to rut out the perpetrators without hurting innocent civilians. It's a no-win mess.
Yet, if you look at a world map before 1948 the land is clearly marked "Palestine". Hell, by your logic, why not just call it Canaan?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.slideshare.net/david191/israel-border-1300bc-1949ad#btnPrevious
Deleteof course, the Brits named it Palestine in 1922. Before that it was the Land of Israel for thousands of years.
And America belongs to the Native American Indians. This argument makes no sense. People and populations move, change and evolve. You have to work with and live with the people who came after and who also have a right to call it their home.
DeleteI have a lot of Isreali clients who lived throughout the Middle East after WWII. Their lives growing up was very difficult - discrimination, having to ask for permission to travel, etc. Now, many of them look back at that experience and seem to forget that it has ever happened to them. Instead, they think they are justified to do the same to the Palestinians.
Everyone who grew up in the U.S. knows very well what happened to the Jews during WWII. We all know very well how difficult life is for the Israelis. Everyone sympathizes and wants to support them and the State of Israel. However, that does not mean that we have to do so unconditionally and it at the expense of men, women and children in Palestine. Someone up thread said that the Israelis are trying not to target innocent people. Tell that to the little boy who held his younger brother after their parents were killed by Isreal's recent counter attacks.
Sorry, but I did NOT say that the North American continent belongs to the Native Americans. I said that by the logic of the RETURNING Israelis owning all that territory after all this time it would mean we would then have to do the same for the natives.
DeleteIn other words, I said THEY CAN'T HAVE IT BACK for the same reason you gave - people and populations move, change and evolve. Just another way of saying what Thomas Wolfe did: You can't go home again!"
Initially, in the wayyy before time, the land area given to the Jews in 1947 by the British and the Americans, was actually the historical homeland of the Canaanites, the Palestinians. But 1st world countries shook things up because we felt bad about all the Jews being killed by Hilter so we gave them their made up "biblical" homeland when really, nomadic Arabic tribes were there, even before the Jews, or even maybe during a time when they were actually the same people.
DeleteIt's actually a very thankless desert piece of property that has no ability to sustain agriculture or support a large populace, yet it is one of the most contested areas on this planet.
Exactly!! It was a consolation prize to the Jews who, without a doubt, went through terrible atrocities and discrimination. Only it has made the Jewish Israelites the very type of oppressor that they have been faced with for however long. Isn't there some fable or parable about someone who is oppressed, once they gain some power, become as evil as their oppressor??
DeleteWe need to stop giving ANY money to Israel. STOP IT NOW. It's just a reflection of how much "church is in our state, in our nation" to give money to a country that the uses our money and weapons to restrict and bully another nation due to religious conflicts. Fuck ALL RELIGION. Until people wise up and put down the fairy tales the ignorant will always war against each other over fucking STORIES written long, long ago that have no bearing on our current culture. Damn you stupid people that teach your children this absolute CRAP.
ReplyDeleteSo excuse me if I don't have the whole grasp of the history (American Public Schools??). It just seems to me that after WWII, there was a whole lot of displaced Jewish people and a lot of countries who didn't want them. So the national powers of that era decided to send them back where they came from. Since the Arab peoples who occupied Palestine at the time had little leverage they got the shaft. It looks like it was some kind of compensation for all the atrocities that happened to the modern Jews. Who is the western world going to back?? Israel of course, they are more in line with Western "values." The people of Palestine never had a chance, they were poor nomads as far as the rest of the world was concerned. What they didn't expect is the desperation and anger that erupted from a population being held captive. Yet, they still have little say because they have no clout. Well, 160+ countries have given their voice legitimacy and since there is what? 198 recognized countries in the world that says a lot. The US is on the wrong side of this issue and Israel needs to tone down the bully rhetoric and give their neighbors some respect.
ReplyDeleteDamn Repugs think the UN is going to dictate to them about homeschooling and disabilities, so they refuse to sign the disabilities treaty but it's okay to dictate to the Palestinians how they need to live in an occupied country??? The lack of empathy and critical thinking is enormous. I wish the political powers of the world would reassess their priorities and do whats right.
Great Idea, a "No Film" zone to protect the ones armed with guns from protesters with rocks. What part of "Occupied Palestinian Land" is hard to comprehend?
ReplyDelete"The Promised Land" of the OT.
"Boy it just sucks having to treat human beings like human beings doesn't it?"
Ain't that the truth?