A couple serving probation for the 2009 death of their toddler after they turned to prayer instead of a doctor could face new charges now that another son has died.
Herbert and Catherine Schaible belong to a fundamentalist Christian church that believes in faith healing. They lost their 8-month-old son, Brandon, last week after he suffered from diarrhea and breathing problems for at least a week, and stopped eating. Four years ago, another son died from bacterial pneumonia.
Prosecutors said Tuesday that a decision on charges will be made after they get the results of an autopsy.
Catherine Schaible's attorney, Mythri Jayaraman, cautioned against a rush to judgment, and said the couple are good parents deeply distraught over the loss of another child.
"There are way more questions than answers at this point. We haven't seen the autopsy report. We don't know the cause of death of this child," Jayaraman told The Associated Press. "What we do know is Mr. and Mrs. Schaible are distraught, they are grieving, they are tremendously sad about the loss of their most recent baby."
Fuck that! I have NO sympathy for these superstitious morons.
They have essentially admitted to denying their second child medical treatment:
A jury convicted the Schaibles of involuntary manslaughter in the January 2009 death of their 2-year-old son, Kent. The boy's symptoms had included coughing, congestion, crankiness and a loss of appetite. His parents said he was eating and drinking until the last day, and they had thought he was getting better.
The Schaibles were sentenced to 10 years' probation.
At a hearing Monday, a judge told the couple they had violated the terms of their probation, noting the Schaibles had told investigators that they prayed to God to make Brandon well instead of seeking medical attention.
"You did that once, and the consequences were tragic," Philadelphia Common Pleas Judge Benjamin Lerner said, according to the Philadelphia Daily News.
The couple have seven other children who are now safely in foster care.
Hopefully they will NEVER be returned to these religious zealots.
The fact that this still happens in this day and age is unconscionable! And ANY pastor that may have encouraged this way of thinking should be brought up on manslaughter charges as well in my opinion.
Get it through your heads folks. Praying is an activity that may make you feel comforted or less alone, but it is NOT a method for receiving any actual reality based assistance for your problems.
And if that hurts your feelings, or seems like an attack on your faith, TOO DAMN BAD! I much would rather you be angry at me then to have your health negatively impacted or to end up someday mourning the death of your child.
check this out:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/alex-jones-downplays-connection-to-boston-bomber
From the AP article: Catherine Schaible's attorney … said the couple are good parents
ReplyDeleteI would buy "well-intentioned parents." Good parents? Nuh-uh.
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
DeleteThis brings to mind a line from the classic John Waters film "Female Trouble": "I lock her in the closet, I beat her with a car aerial; it's hard being a loving mother."
DeleteAnother case of religious extremists caring more for the unborn than living, breathing human beings. Even their own.
ReplyDeleteIs spaying and neutering only for dogs and cats?
Delete@ 8:17 - unfortunately
DeleteI bet these are the same types that think it's ok to legislate women's uteruses, but will fight tooth and nail when the state intervenes on behalf of these innocent victims.
ReplyDeleteRicky Perry will hold them a prayer meeting, feed them a rubber chicken dinner, buy them some WD-40 at Wally's World and send them home. Hey, the kid that died wan't a zygote so nobody cares....
ReplyDeleteYou’re completely right in this instance, Gryphen. Pray if you like (it’s a good thing), but take the kids to a doctor, for God’s sake. That shouldn’t even be up for discussion. We may need another law. We may need free medical. We may need a lot of things, including forced sterilization of mindless nimrods.
ReplyDeleteThank you for being brave, G; most people aren’t.
I usually agree with you, but not on your wish that the couple's other children not be returned to them. I think some sort of arrangement for checkups for the kids needs to be arranged and enforced, and the parents held accountable, but the damage to children separated from parents can be acute. Mom and Dad Schaible may not be your kind of parents, or mine, but they are all those children have. I say this as someone who was parked for a time away from my mom.
ReplyDeleteTell you what. If those two are all those kids have, they don't have a chance in hades of graduating high school, let alone going to college and making a living. Look at them. Do they even work? Or are they GOP takers? Someone at HP said they are Christian Scientists. Well, that worked out well for two of their nine. I think the kids are far better off away from these people, and they should be sterilized immediately (I know, we don't do that here..)
DeleteAre you FUCKING SERIOUS????
DeleteThese people let not one but TWO of their children suffer in pain and agony until they DIED? And you would put their other children BACK IN THEIR CARE? Are you out of your FUCKING MIND? They are murderers!
They willfully let their children DIE based on some bullshit belief! What the HELL would it take for you to recognize that they are UNFIT to parent?`
Just because you were away from your mother and you have wounds as a result, does NOT condone their ignorance that cost those children the suffering and pain and loss of life that they had. They WILLFULLY neglected their dying children due to their selfish beliefs. They don't deserve to have children and I'm glad that they won't EVER have the chance to stand idly by, wringing their hands, while their child suffers unspeakable horror.
You really need to get your mental health addressed. You clearly have issues with being separated from your mother. Gryphen is 1000% correct on this and you are way off base to even suggest that those poor children would be returned to these twisted thinking people.
They're neglect caused the deaths of not just one child, but two.
DeleteThey may have different parenting styles as most other people, but they can not be trusted to ensure the health, well being or safety of their children, which unfortunately has been now been proven twice over...
We as Americans have the right to raise our children as we deem fit, but not when our actions physically, emotionally or sexually harm their children. Two children died because their parents refused to seek medical attention for very obviously sick children.
This is not normal, healthy parenting.
<<but they are all those children have.
DeleteOh my god, Chenagirl, where to start.
So based on that premise, abused children should be returned to their parents because 'they are all those children have'? Children who are subjected to horrific circumstances like incest, rape, beatings should stay with their parents because 'they are all those children have'? What kind of thinking is this? You would support putting children in danger, in jeopardy, in dangerous circumstances because 'they are all those children have'?
You CLEARLY either have no children or have no clue of the value of children's lives. How can you even say such a thing? I'm gobsmacked that you would voice this delusional thinking on a public forum.
Good god, what would it take for you to justify taking these children away from their neglectful parents? Your post left me absolutely SEETHING with it's lame ass 'oh gee, they're the only parents they have' bullshit. Clearly, they are NOT good parents, they are not even good human beings if they can stand by and watch children suffer and die...ANY children, much less their own.
It disgusts me when people make excuses for the abuse of innocent beings who have no recourse to protect themselves. How can you possibly justify returning them to such a toxic and damaging environment? Just because they share DNA? Seriously? SERIOUSLY????
How the Fuck could you advocate returning these kids to people who've already killed two of their siblings? They're murderers! Purposeful murderers, even.
DeleteJust...What?
Chenagirl, I'm sorry to see you subjected to such vicious, ignorant, and personal attacks for sharing your own painful experience. The people on this blog are the left's version of angry old white men with Gryphyn leading the pack.
DeleteThat was already mandated and failed. The took the kids for well visits. It is when the kids are sick that the problems ensue. There is not enough social work staff to check in to make sure the kids are not sick...so foster care is the answer...the safest answer.
DeleteNope, Chenagirl. You DON'T know anything about the current system. Look up a itte kid names Christian Choate to see how "arrangements" like that can fall through the cracks. All it takes is for the family to move to another state, get divorced, or the overworked DCFS to get a new manager and "reprioritize" their case. Or a quack doc to sign off.
DeleteAnd with that large a family I wi bet you they were on a CHIP program or medicaid - NO EXCUSE!
@2:40 I'm fairly certain you and your RWNJ fiends have been feverishly trying to pray all the liberals away for some time. The fact that we're all still here and hardly an angry old white man among us should cause a few of you to question the power of your type of prayers. That AOWGs are more likely to hang out with Johnny Mac or typing one-handed missives to his Tundra Tartlet in the Sea o' Pee.
Delete@8:49 It's @2:40 here. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Never have I voted for a Republican (okay well, Bob Packwood) and never will I. Love Love LOVE the fact that you responded to me by calling me a RWNJ. You TOTALLY proved my point.
DeleteI understand the horror at my suggestion. No question, these folks have serious judgment issues, but they didn't attempt to hide either deaths or their involvement in them.
DeleteThat is why I think they are good candidates for a monitored return of their other children with checkups.
The alternative for the kids is being parked in the foster system. Between the separation and the parenting-for-hire (there are a few good FPs) the damage to kids in that situation is frequently horrendous and their fate at the whim of bureaucrats.
Chenagrrl: I was ten, and my brother was four when my parents got divorced, so my brother essentially grew up fatherless.
DeleteAnd it was because my father used to beat the shit out of me. I hid it for a long time, but my mom found out, and filed for divorce. My brother was spared because he was taken away from my father, but the damage was already done when it came to me.
These parents have proved not only once but TWICE that their ideals put their children in harms way, and that they are not going to change. If they were, a second child would not have had to die.
I see bumper stickers and roadside signs that say "Prayer Works," but oddly enough, I've never heard of anybody whose car was stumbling and sputtering trying prayer. Next time an Xtian friend says he has a leaking pipe in his garage, tell him to try prayer. Weeds in the lawn? Try prayer!
ReplyDeleteAnd if it doesn't work for things like that, why would it save the life of a gravely ill child?
Really?
Tom, in FL
Tom, good analogies, all. I've done everything but pray for this clunker that I haven't been able to drive or even get running in the past two months. I've been going about it all wrong, I guess. I've been replacing parts and belts and shit like that that I used to think mattered. But a simple prayer might have done the trick. With no busted knuckles and less cursing.
DeleteI'll chime in and say that unfortunately going to the doctor is often up for discussion in poor families. I wonder if this family would have made different choices if single payer health care was available.
ReplyDeleteHow about single "prayer" health care? :)
DeleteOh please. Care is available. It says they did take their kids for checkups when required by the court. When you are against medicine, it makes no difference how it is paid for...you won't take a seriously in child to the doctor becuase your religion forbids it. That's why two are dead.
DeleteNo they would not have. They eschew medical care due to their very strong beliefs and no amount of care, whether they had the money or not, would induce them to go against those beliefs.
DeleteThese are the sort of morons who have forgot the adage: God helps those that help themselves...and get their kids to a doc asap.
ReplyDeleteNot scriptural though you did not say it was. Many Christians quote it and will argue that 'it's in the Bible.'
DeleteBenjamin Franklin quote.
(dowl) regular reader (everyday since the AKQuitter got veep-tapped), rare commenter, don't know what happed this time.
I've been dealing with hospitals in the Philadelphia region for the past three weeks and have nothing but good things and high respect for the quality of care they've given my husband and my family. I can't imagine praying while watching a child suffer needlessly and then take it's last breath. I'm not a believer, but have to wonder how someone can believe in a God who has callous indifference to the life of a child.
ReplyDeleteThe judge ripped them a new one, then sent them home to an empty house, which is what should have been the least that happened the first time.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20130423_Judge_rebukes_Rhawnhurst_couple_over_death_of_another_child.html
This has been on my local news all day, and everyone's pissed beyond words they just got probation the first incident. Rhawnhurst is five minutes away from a hospital that had charity care for people who can't afford it, and fifteen minutes away from at least six other hospitals that may also have similar programs.
Yeah, the foster care and adoption system have their flaws, but the kids that are left have at least half a chance at making it. It's too late for the two that died.
What's wrong with the lawyer? What difference does it make what the autopsy says? (Unless it reveals a gunshot wound, drowning, or strangling).
Yeah prayer is a good thing, but it isn't going to bring back a child who died from neglect.
"The damage to children separated from parents can be acute".
ReplyDeleteGroan.
I can't think of any damage more acute than death.
And the damage associated with watching 2 of your siblings die while your parents did nothing to help.
DeleteI can. Fearing every day you'll get sick and being afraid you'll die while your parents pray over you and do nothing.
DeleteThese children probably live in constant fear of dying. Every sneeze and sniffle must strike fear into their hearts.
Prayer only works as a form of self-hypnosis or self-fulfilling prophecy. For any other purpose, it's a crap shoot and no better than chance. How many of their kids have to die before these people start questioning their beliefs?
ReplyDeleteThe basic premise of your article is correct. These parents certainly appear to have been so negligent as to be directly responsible for the unnecessary deaths of their children.
ReplyDeleteShameful.
Yet, at the end, you could not resist the temptation to use the worst example of an infinitely varied and diverse population as cudgel to attack all people of faith - including, by extension, our president, Barack Obama.
In fact, given all the horrid things that have happened in the world this day and every day, the only reason you zeroed in on this one was so that you would have a cudgel to go on the attack with and to vent your own prejudice.
Yet, at the end, you could not resist the temptation to use the worst example of an infinitely varied and diverse population as cudgel to attack all people of faith
DeleteWhere did he do that? You did not provide a quote. Seems to me that you just skimmed the article and saw what you wanted to see.
He referred to the Schaible family—not to be confused with "all religious people"—as superstitious morons.
He had some things to say about "ANY pastor that may have encouraged this way of thinking"—not to be confused with "any pastor".
He said some things about praying that have been borne out over and over and over again.
He said some things addressed to people who see his opinions as an attack on their faith—not to be confused with "everybody".
You refer to his "prejudice". It's only prejudice if you form opinions in the absence of data—sort of like your comment.
WHERE'S YOUR BEEF???
So you read minds? You reached into his brain and determined his reasoning for picking this story?
Deleteyeah, I doubt it.
More likely that you're just butthurt and looking for a reason to feel persecuted. Get your head out of your rectum.
The beef lies in the "superstitious morons" label, a think-simple pigeonhole Gryphen has used broadly. We know these parents have gone far beyond the bounds, as witnessed by the tragic consequences.
DeleteGryphen's mindset consigns anyone of religious faith to the realm of superstition. This is a significant and damaging error masquerading as reason and logic. We see it here. Over and over, this blog showcases horror stories of Christians gone bad.
Never does Gryphen report on Christians caring for lepers in undeveloped countries or simply picking up the homeless from gutters in Anytown, USA. These everyday facts of Christian charity in action get almost no press, anywhere.
Feel rejected, inadequate, alienated, misunderstood, conflicted? Then Jesus loves you in particular. It's true. Even though he was a Jewish rabbi, he didn't care if you had cooties or lacked a food handler's permit. He would break bread with the most despised members of society--tax collectors and prostitutes--and minister to them even on the Sabbath. That's what did him in, legalistically, under the harsh rule of the Pharisees.
If you are lucky enough to have Jesuit, Dominican, or Benedictine theology professors who are trained in hermeneutics and classical languages--plus thousands of hours to devote to study--you can untangle the books of the Bible for what they are. But because that takes huge effort, even beyond most Mensa members, you can simply focus on Jesus. One-third of the earth's population have intuited his mission and chosen to follow him, including those of high native intelligence and advanced education.
Here's a significant charitable work put into action by Christians. Every cent donated goes to providing meals, schooling, and medical care for people in a region called Green Hell. www.Amazonrelief.org Look and see, then give what you can. This is the true face of Christianity.
Pax et bonum
That guy needs to "get fixed". He doesn't need to be making anymore babies. Seven is too many for that couple. What a waste of oxygen!
ReplyDeleteSpeaking as a Christian here. God gave us brains, he wanted us to USE them. It's how we discovered science, technology, etc., and yes, even medical CURES.
ReplyDeleteThis IS neglect.
School Principal Discouraged Teen Girl from Reporting Sexual Assault Because It Would Ruin Attacker's Basketball Career
ReplyDeleteHer attacker went on to assault another girl just 2 weeks later. And the story only gets worse.
Last week the National Women’s Law Center, along with a local law firm in Michigan filed a complaint in federal district court on behalf a high school student who was sexually assaulted at school by a fellow student and star basketball player. In many ways the story echoes the tragic high school rape story from Steubenville, Ohio,which should lead all of us to ask just what kind of culture are we raising our children in, and what kind of culture is being cultivated at our high schools?
According to the complaint, in 2010 the victim was sexually assaulted by a star player on the school’s basketball team. The assault took place on campus in a sound proof band room at Forest Hills Central High School. The victim notified a teacher who in turn reported the assault to the principal. But rather than open an investigation into the allegations, the principal discouraged the student and her parents from filing charges, telling them that doing so could ruin the assailant’s prospects at being recruited to play basketball for a Division 1 school.
The victim and her parents ignored the principal’s request not to file charges because they were concerned that this student might attack other girls. Instead, the student and her parents filed a police report, and the Kent County Sheriff’s Department began a criminal investigation. Meanwhile, the school did nothing.
As alleged in the complaint, two weeks later another female student was sexually assaulted by the same attacker. Despite a legal obligation under Title IX to investigate the assault and protect the student, the high school officials never interviewed the girl or her parents again, failed to conduct an investigation, and for two and a half weeks left the attacker in one of her classes.
It gets worse.
http://www.alternet.org/school-principal-discouraged-teen-girl-reporting-sexual-assault-because-it-would-ruin-attackers
No anger here, Jesse, you're right on target!
ReplyDeleteThis is abslutely horrid and the people defending these parents need to rethink their views. Two babies are dead while the paents did nothing. If they were late term abortions many of the same people would want their heads. I hate double standards.They should never see the light ofv day again.
ReplyDeleteOT: The older Boston Bomber was an Alex Jones and infowars fan. You should read the comments on some sites defending Jones.
This happened in my area.
ReplyDeleteFreaks.
Imagine the outrage if those two were Wiccans
ReplyDelete...or Muslims
...or Hindu
NO worse than the fucktard Xtian mom I ran into the other day. When I complained about how bad out loca school district has become academically, and that we homeschooled our sons for that reason she said"we sent our daughter to a Xtian school, "we never wanted academic excellence for her, after all, shes a girl."
ReplyDeleteThis is just as much abuse as beating a kid daily. They will leave the daughter unprepared for life, financially dependent and at the mercy of whatever male she can latch on to. Fortunately, the woman was to old to have more kids, so I didn't pursue the matter.
THIS is the disgusting bullshit - the state of Pennsylvania is just as guilty of murdering that kid as the parents.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.philly.com/philly/news/20130424_Prosecutors_questioned_oversight_of_Schaibles_in_2011.html
"DHS social workers visited the Schaible home the day after 2-year-old Kent died in 2009.
But the agency closed the case five days after the toddler's death due to a state law preventing intervention based solely on a family's religious beliefs.
Pennsylvania's Child Protective Services Law includes an exemption for parents who neglect children's medical needs because of religious beliefs.
Rita Swan of Children's Health Care, a national group that lobbies against religious exemptions in child-abuse cases, said the Schaible siblings are the third set to die in Pennsylvania because of neglect by faith-healing parents.
Swan has compiled a list of 28 children in Pennsylvania who died of faith-healing neglect since the 1970s.
The Pennsylvania General Assembly is drafting bills to amend the Child Protective Services Law at the urging of advocates and a state task force, but none includes changes to the religious exemption, said Cathleen Palm of the Pennsylvania Protect Our Children Committee.
Now, perhaps a conversation will begin, she said."
If at first......
ReplyDeleteGryphen, you're obviously unaware of the fundamental(ist) principle of 'back-up children'. In a world full of atheists, Jooz, gays and Democrats (aka "Others") the chances that any one of your children will survive Satan's evil machinations is frankly next to zero. Producing a solid bench of redundant kids that step up when an 'accident' or 'accidents' like this occur is just good parenting.
ReplyDeleteYou would know this if you read your bible once in a while.
It is written:
"Forsooth! A very long time ago a bunch of bearded old men hadeth dozens of wives and hundreds of children. So shouldeth thou."
Aphasians 21:12
Beldar, you made me think:
DeleteFrom the Broadway Musical The Book of Mormon
Let's all fuck and have as many babies as we can and make Big Mormon Families.
Then they go into the song "Joseph Smith - American Moses
Go to 5:30 seconds of video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE0Wy_XJNyw
Thank you, thank you god, get back to fucking, thank you, thank you god, god wants us fucking
Are they brother and sister?
ReplyDeleteWow.
ReplyDelete"If, upon investigation, the county agency determines that a child has not been provided needed medical or surgical care because of seriously held religious beliefs of the child's parent, guardian, or other person responsible for the child's welfare, and if the beliefs are consistent with those of a bona fide religion, the child shall not be deemed to be physically or mentally abused."
That's according to the Child Protection Services Law Section 6303. Okay, who wants to argue which religions are "bona fide"?
Why, when I look at that photo, do I see that couple who had the farm where the alien cockroach landed?
ReplyDelete