The idea that MOST religious people seem to embrace is that secularism is the reason that our country is so materialistic, but that assumption crashes on the rocks of reality once you have the opportunity sit in one of this country's numerous garish looking mega-church's and listened to one of the thousands of money making seminars that they offer.
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Back in the bad old 70s when I was in fourth grade, we had a class called MORALS. There was actually a text book. But the amazing thing was the textbook was just a huge amount of very well written short stories from all over the world. Some were from famous writers, others (when I saw the book years later in a used book store) I had never heard of. It was my favorite class.
ReplyDeleteThe best part was that at no time were any of the stories about religion nor were the discussions the teacher had with us ever about religion. A group of fourth graders sat around and discussed--basically--how you treat your fellow man. Empathy was HUGE in the discussions. We talked about what we would do if we faced the moral dilemmas the person in the story was facing. Many times we had no solid answers. The teacher just let us go and discuss it all. She only interjected when we were completely at a loss. Then--she would only ask questions so we could dig ourselves out of confusion or too much childish dogma.
I look back on that time and realize what an amazing education I got--
And hey---no vouchers, no religion and no dinosaurs with people riding on their backs! I guess a couple of the educational fixes would have been to leave the really good parts alone and keeping religion and crazed conservatives off the school grounds.
This is one of the things I believe the Founding Fathers had in mind when they added the First Amendment and its clause about religion. Of course, being well educated men of the times, they were aware of history and how religious differences can, and do, affect countries and their peoples.
ReplyDeleteThey were quite well aware of the normal frictions (and sometimes explosions) brought about by varying religious beliefs.
But I believe the greatest thing they had in mind was a knowledge that secular education is good for everyone in the long run (something about which our current teabaggers need to be reminded!) and that something as personal as religion (even as something as important as NO personal religion) should not be taught in our public schools, but left to the parents and the churches of the INDIVIDUAL'S choice!
Having said that, however, I have to agree with Gryphen. Once in a while something comes out of a religious mouth which is just too true to be denied. Just one question:
Why is it that it seems to come mostly from THIS guy?
Love? Understanding? Compassion? Forgiveness? Tolerance? THIS man truly lives by these non-religious words. And seems to be supremely happy, to boot.
The public, state landgrant university I used to teach at is busy destroying its liberal arts school, a dozen teaching positions cut, so that even that ONE class in Professisonal ethics students are required to take will soon be an online, corporate controlled (Pearson Ed INC) based Scantron program. Yep, the capitalist, materialist beancounter types (that's YOU, Mitch Daniels) are threatened by even one highly inadequate ethics course The automaton STEM degree holders they turn out might have a working conscience! And they DON'T want THAT!!!!
ReplyDeleteI am an Atheist with a capital A, but don't anyone mess with my DL! He may be religious, but he lives what he teaches (notice it is "teaches" not "preaches").
ReplyDeleteThat he lives the moral life I was brought up to live I guess makes him my spiritual leader. Kinda. Sorta.
Oh no! Did I just say that??
The great conundrum of human civilization: Ethics are necessary. Few will be able and willing to reason themselves into adherence. Adding a cloak of sacredness to the ethics works for a while but this eventually invites corruption and perversion of the ethics. Coerced ethics is a contradiction in terms.
ReplyDeleteIn my view, there are no easy answers- only, at best, selection of the lesser evil.
As Leland notes, the American answer to the dilemma is to let the people freely add sacredness to whatever they will, which, as readers of this blog are well aware has its pitfalls (but I still favor the freedom as policy).
Ole' Dondrub, being an eminently reasonable man himself, tends, in my view, to overvalue reason's effect in society as a whole. The Jacobins tried what he suggests, and it didn't work out so well. In a sense the Athenians did as well, with similar results.
It's a tough one.
"...secularism is the reason that our country is so materialistic..."
ReplyDeleteGo look at any Catholic cathedral in any town;
the castles of the Mormons in Salt Lake City;
the Crystal Cathedral (bankrupt now, I know, but still...)
Look at the palaces that are built in the name of religion. Look at the gold and treasures within them.
But secularism is materialistic?
I've seen some of them though and they really do look like castles. Except the one in Logan - it looks like some kind of Jetsons home.
DeleteSorry, I meant the one in Ogden - Logan is another castle.
DeleteThe problem with ethics is that there is no real money in it. A small, locally owned business might be able to be true to himself, but the really wealthy got their wealth on the bodies of dead miners, child laborers and destroying the environment. We eventually passed laws prohibiting these things in our country (you know, ethics and all) so now we just do it all overseas.
ReplyDeleteI saw an interview with Steve Jobs many years ago (long before the iPhone) and in response to a question about ethics he said: "Look, I don't care about 'doing what's right', I care about being successful". And his legacy shows this. The poor in society working for slave wages in sweat shops in third world countries. There is no "Steve Jobs Foundation" for charitable causes. After he died I remember everyone wanting to believe he gave to charitable causes anonymously because no one could find any account of him doing anything that didn't result in a profit for him. It doesn't exist.
In an interview with the Overstock.com guy (I forget his name), he was talking about how he made his fortune and the interviewer was a little astonished. He said "But isn't that kind of like kicking a man when he's down?" and O's response was "Well, my father always said 'if you're not gonna kick a man when he's down, when are you gonna kick him?" That's our American ethic now.
When Mitt Romney went to China and saw workers living in dormitories holding 12 to a room stacked on top of each other working 7 days a week in factories surrounded by barbed wire - instead of being outraged at the abuse of humanity, he praised their strong "work ethic".
Wall Street crashes our economy and we give them bonuses. BP trashes our environment and a Senator apologizes to HIM! We start two wars of aggression and while service men and women lose their legs, the military industrial complex makes record profits and is pushing for yet more war in the Middle East.
We have no ethics.
Personal anecdote:
ReplyDeleteThis morning, I was doing what millions of Americans do every Saturday morning: I was sleeping in. It was a few minutes before 9:00 in the morning, and the doorbell rang. I cursed under my breath, grabbed my robe, put my house shoes on the wrong feet, stumbled down the dimly-lit hallway, grumbled at my hyper barking dogs, and looked through the door's peephole. Standing on my front porch was a pair of women, dressed in their finest Sunday church attire.
It took me maybe all of two seconds to decide that any religion that expected me to canvass the neighborhood, in pantyhose, at 9:00 on a Saturday morning, was not a good match for me.
Without opening the door, I turned around and went back to bed.
To get to know your friends better, bring Scruples :: The Game of Moral Dilemmas to a party. It can result in some very interesting discussions.
ReplyDelete(I have no connection with the inventor of the game or the company marketing it.)
I like some Dalai Lama quotes from time to time. He's gentle and never "in your face" with his beliefs.
ReplyDelete