Sunday, May 19, 2013

The most terrible lie ever told.

A few months back somebody accused me of being angry at Jesus, and that was why I was an Atheist. Of course that was so ridiculous, mostly because I have little faith that the Jesus of the Bible actually existed, that I did not bother to respond.

However that started me remembering back to the time when I was the MOST angry about religion.

It was when I was quite young and still working through my understanding of religion and what the purpose of the whole thing might be. As you might imagine from a child's perspective, my first thought was that it was a trick that parents played on their children.

It was also the beginning of my introduction to critical thinking. And it must be noted that all of this took place at a time in my life when I had little difficulty accepting the possibility that ESP, UFO's, and ghosts actually existed. In fact, to be fair, I sort of hoped that they did.

Now I was never told anything about Hell by my mother, and only learned about it when I started to question the existence of God.

Remember I was only seven years old, and in order to frighten me back into obedience I was told that those who "choose" not to believe in God and Heaven will forever be punished by pitchfork wielding demons, while hellfire burned the flesh from my bones for all eternity.  (Nobody bothered to explain how my soul, no longer encumbered with my earthly body, could have "flesh" to burn, but then again none of this seemed to be too carefully thought out.)

I pondered this information as I received it, but my follow up questions as to the location of Hell (And for that matter Heaven), were either ignored or rebuffed.

I remember devouring books about oil drilling and Volcanology assuming that if ANYBODY would stumble onto the entrance to Hell surely they would be the first.

But nothing was ever mentioned. Which to my young mind was insane. Why WOULDN'T we be looking for such and incredible place?

It did not take me too very long to determine that this place of eternal torture was a fantastical tale with no basis in reality. And with that realization came my first experience with rage.

I was to deal with my bad temper often in my life, but I did not usually get so angry that I could not be reasoned with or talked down, but this was one of those times.

How DARE they use such a horrible lie to bully children into submission! How dare they insert such terrifying imagery into our dreams! How dare they make us fear that the deaths of our loved ones will see them punished for all eternity, and perhaps worst yet, that WE may we forced to live forever while being separated from those we love but who failed to earn God's grace.

As if such a place as that could ever be called "Heaven."

What could be the excuse I wondered? Do the adults not know any better? Or do they know, and yet feel they have the right to lie to us because we are children? Or are they in fact as deluded as children themselves, and no longer worthy of my admiration and trust?

I fretted about this for months, refusing to go near a church or to talk to anybody about religion.

I remember being kept in from the playground because I frightened the other children with my talk about the possibility that there was no God.

"What is wrong with you young man? Have you lost your senses? Do you not fear God's wrath?"

"No, I don't. Is that why I must be kept indoors?"

I learned over time to stop talking about my thoughts on the playground. I learned in time to hide my anger from the adults. But I never learned in time to stop exercising my critical thinking skills, and I never again took anything on faith.

Sometimes I still get asked how I could have such disdain for religion, but the answer is quite simple. No idea which, to be successful, must be implanted in the minds of the young or ignorant, is worthy of my respect. Especially when it withers and dies so quickly when exposed to the light of reason.

As you can imagine I had a somewhat lonely childhood, as I was often isolated from others with only books for company. (Nobody wants their precious child to play with the neighborhood Satanist after all.) But ultimately I was rewarded when more and more started to openly express their animus toward religion and began to take great pride in their humanistic nature.

It is not so lonely anymore, and in fact I find that this newer generation is even further ahead of the curve than was I. And perhaps most gratifying of all is that when THEY have questions there are places that are ready and willing to answer them and help them through their journey.

THAT gives me great hope for the future.

38 comments:

  1. angela4:58 PM

    Its a hard row to hoe being an atheist. I remember the Sunday morning I woke up and refused to attend church. I was twelve. My parents----who had not attended church since I was born were shocked. (Why?) I held my ground and eventually they left me alone when I told them I thought it was all just fairy tales. I remember the look on their faces when I said I didn't need sky fairie stories to get me to treat humans beings well. They were shocked---again, but silent. Twenty years later my mother stopped believing in organized religion.

    The thing I can't understand is the way some christians think we are evil and want to eat their babies and dance with dark forces. The atheist I know are some of the best people in the world. Kind, open and realistic.
    Frankly---I know only a couple of true christians. They are rare.

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    1. Who is more righteous?

      And atheist who does the right thing because it is the right thing to do and he has made a free choice?

      Or a Christian who does it to avoid punishment in the afterlife or to score points to get into heaven?

      Delete
    2. No contest in my mind.

      Atheists, unite. Atheists -- come of the closet!

      Delete
    3. Leland8:10 AM

      Personally, I believe they persecute us and malign us for only one reason: They FEAR us!

      They fear us because we are intelligent enough to see through all the crap they try to foist on us. They fear us because we were able to throw off the shackles our parents tried to hang around our necks. The ones THEY couldn't avoid?

      They fear us because the powers that be are afraid of us and TELL them to fear us. And they do that because the PTB's know we threaten their power base.

      They fear us because the can't CONTROL us!

      You know what I have to say about that?

      TOUGH SHIT!

      Angela, I agree with you completely. Atheists ARE generally more giving and open and honest and caring and forgiving. And I think that is because generally we are smart enough to see that we don't need any sky pilot telling us how to live our lives decently.

      As for meeting good christians? MAYBE one or two.

      Delete
  2. Anonymous5:05 PM

    I so agree w/you on this subject, IM. I was raised in a Catholic home and made to attend Mass each Sunday or I'd be restricted from something I enjoyed doing. I attended a Catholic school during some elementary years and we had to attend Mass before school started each day. I was one of the few that questioned religion at that young age and still do as a young senior who is retired. And, I was taught by nuns at the Catholic school. In reflection, I'm sure I created a challenge to them!

    I remember looking at the Catholics around me (to include my parents) and saw that they did not practice the religion as I was being taught.

    The christians that I watch and see today in America are NOT practicing the teachings and they make me sick to my stomach. Should I name a few? Let us begin w/Sarah Palin and her family! They lie constantly about everything and are frauds!!!

    I do not believe there is a heaven or hell. We can live good or bad lives on earth - that is our choice!!! Remember, our bodies turn to dust and there is no more. We are like a pebbles on a beach. One among many!

    Just shut the Republicans up that push 'religion' on us...they don't have a clue what they are talking about is my take!

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    1. Anonymous3:34 AM

      I wish I could get back the years of my life spent in church against my young will - don't you? It's almost slavery how my parents made me go and participate by playing in guitar mass and carrying up the gifts and reading. How I hated it.
      I did get a good education though I must say. I was well prepared for college. Back in the day (graduated catholic HS in 1981) , it was a damn fine education, but had to take mandatory religion. They did offer a class on other religions, but instead of just teaching about them, the focus was on how they are WRONG and catholics are RIGHT. They neglected to mention the dozens of religions with a christ figure and a virgin birth and death to save sinners. Go figure.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous3:45 AM

      Your experience echoes mine.
      I lost the whole belief thing in grade school, asked about the possibility of no god if there were no people. Reading the World Book encyclopedia editions cover to cover will do that to a kid. I read them the summer I turned 8 and asked that question of my religious teacher (nun). She about blew a gasket and sent me to the office to have my parents called in for "questioning".
      Man was I ever in trouble, I knew I was right as they were so upset and freaked out. I had found out the BS behind the piety and ritual. AHA!
      It was only hammered home later in my tenns when my parents became involved with the RCC Charismatic Movement. All it was in So Cal was a wife swapping party every weekend. Not my parents, but our bedrooms were tryst places for the more adventurous couples.
      Add to this the rampant sexual abuse I witness and was subjected to (nun fondling breasts of 8th grade girls, younger boys fucked by visiting priests, HS marriage teacher priest getting blow jobs for A's to the pretty girls, and my college roommate nearly raped by the dorm priest) just made it all seem that the RCC was nothing more than a sordid, filthy club I wanted no part of.

      Delete
  3. Anonymous5:05 PM

    Gryphen----when I graduated high school & headed off to college, I walked away from religion & never looked back. My adulthood has been spent examining & ejecting those childhood beliefs from my being. My experience has been like the adage, "You can't see the forrest for the trees". Along my journey out of the darkness of ignorance, I began to glimpse a light at the edge of that forrest & eventually I emerged into that light with what I can only describe as JOY! I'm free from fear of retribution, free to openly accept what life has to offer, free to be a whole being, unfettered by the nonsense that was fed to me as a child.

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    1. Leland8:16 AM

      CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!

      It's a long, tough fight, isn't it? But, oh so worth it when one breaks through.

      Delete
  4. Anonymous5:10 PM

    The founding fathers (a lot of them) were deists. They believed in a higher power, but had no use for organized religion. They believed in freedom FROM religion, and that was a major reason for them getting the hell out of England.

    Faith is cool. When you start clubs that say your shit is THE shit, and everybody else IS shit, that's when everything gets sideways, and the cause of ALL our problems. Amen.

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    1. Anonymous11:11 PM

      Ah-ha! Maybe that's what I am, a deist. Or a free thinker (which is a current parallel term to deist). That is I definitely believe in God as a divine creative force; the origin of all life and a guiding healing presence that is available to anyone who can tap into it(as in by meditating and following the 8 steps of right conduct). But religions just seem to compartmentalize the whole concept of divinity and by so doing cause confusion and dissent. Christianity in particular has so many different 'denominations'or divisions, each claiming to be 'the one'. How can anyone place faith in a religion that is so divided within itself?

      Hells' bells! Most wars throughout history have been either directly or indirectly caused by opposing religions. Even the recent/current wars between the U.S. and Iraq or the U.S. and Afganistan are really wars between Christians and Muslims, although billed by Americans as wars on terror.

      Religion and worship (Faith as you say 5:10) are supposed to be about harmonizing our lives with the Great Spirit (Holy God); about loving and respecting one another, helping each other, promoting peace and goodwill, and living our lives individually with good morals and code of conduct. But read history and you will wonder what the hell has gone wrong.

      C.L. from N.Z.

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  5. As a child, I hurt for all the people who were going to hell because they weren’t born Evangelical Norwegian Protestant Lutherans. “No exceptions folks, too bad, we’ll be nice to you in this life anyway (condescending head pat).”

    It didn’t make me mad so much as suspicious. I won the lottery? What if that was a lie and THEY won the lottery? Where was the proof? So many people around me were goofballs anyway, why would God favor them?

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    1. LOL.

      I was brought up LCA because my Mom was Lutheran. My Dad is Catholic. He hasn't gone to church or taken communion since he married my Mom in a protestant church and refused to raise the kids Catholic. For that they barred him from communion. (This was the early 50s). So he basically said piss on them.

      However old habits and beliefs die hard. He says he is going to heaven and we are not because he is Catholic and we are Protestants. He did say he'd put in a good word for us.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous12:56 PM

      mlaiuppa, same experience. He's been to Catholic churches for weddings and funerals, and that's it. In my parents' case, the priest who married them threatened NOT to marry them just before the ceremony unless Mom converted to Catholicism. They left, and were in the car to go to the Justice of the Peace before the priest got the idea he had lost...and the priest caved.

      Delete
    3. My Mother refused to agree to raise us Catholic so there was no possible way they would be married in a Catholic church. So they were married in a little Lutheran church my Mom attended. My Dad really didn't care.

      But he's still going to put in a good word for us to try and get us into heaven. Us being heathens and all.

      Delete
  6. Anonymous5:46 PM

    My folks sent me to Catholic school for grades 1 through 4. This was in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Many many years later I told Mom that the only thing it did for me was it made me want to go to the Congo and join the Simba rebels who were killing nuns.

    One of the things the nuns told us is that when a communion host is blessed by the priest, it really honest-to-FSM does contain human blood, and will bleed if punctured. Now, on Sunday, I'm supposed to go up to the altar rail, get on my knees, and let them put that thing in my mouth? In fact, the nuns had this peculiar thing for blood and for death. One nun told us that when Jesus was tortured with a crown of thorns, "the thorns went into one side of his out and out the other, through his brain!" And she said it with a peculiarly delighted, gleeful tone to her voice.

    Weird, just weird!

    Tom, in FL

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  7. What saved me was 7th grade nun, Sister Mary Jude in the parochial school I was attending (I was forced to do 4 years). She told the class one day that Jesus, was just a man in a book, a book written by many men, translated by many men. I never forgot that and went on to public school after the 8th grade. Thank you Sister Mary Jude!

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    1. Olivia7:07 PM

      I had the same experience in Catholic high school. We had a priest who explained it the very same way. He reminded us of the telephone game where you sit in a circle and repeat to the person on your left what the person on your right whispered in your ear. Each time it is translated, it gets altered to reflect the interpretation and the prejudices of the person translating it.
      He also encouraged us to explore our consciences for the answers to what was right or wrong.
      My conclusion is that all the Satan and Hell bullshit is about controlling and maintaining power over ignorant people and nothing else.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous9:00 PM

      That's the analogy I often use when explaining why I don't believe the bible is "the word of God!"

      Delete
  8. Chella6:28 PM

    Dinosaurs.

    I stopped believing in god because of dinosaurs.

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  9. eclecticsandra6:42 PM

    I never believed in Satan or Hell. I was taught that we do the right things because they are right. God was ancillary. About 19 I had abandoned the church that I loved. I so much wanted the right answers the church had.

    It was hard navigating alone. Religion is helpful until you find your inner strength.

    I can remember my children discovering that I was not a Christian. It really confounded their thinking. How could someone they loved and relied on not be a Christian?

    When I was a graduating senior at UCB, I went to the baccalauret. The message from the Christian pastor was, "no matter what you do, be religious. Acknowledge your principles and live up to them." That was a powerful message to receive at 21. I have always tried to live up to that.

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  10. Anonymous7:35 PM

    oh yes, all you wrote gryphen, me too. for me the whole
    church/relig thing fell away after i realized my folks
    had willingly sent me to schools where 'teachers' really
    were witches dressed in long flowing black robes with
    weird face masks. some ghost thing flying around the
    church's rafters.
    yeh at 7yrs i wasnt impressed with this crap either.
    the whole mess made me trust my own family less.

    oh, yeh reading above posts, the body blood stuff, yeh
    that too; that was fun, like group cannibalism.

    man at 7yrs i was SMH.

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  11. I guess different Christian sects handle this all differently.

    I was never threatened with red devils with horns (that was a Halloween caricature) or eternal hellfire.

    I was taught that hell was the "absence of God". In other words, it was eternal shunning and loneliness.

    Threats of Hell and damnation were never used to make me eat my lima beans or coerce me into doing the right thing.

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    1. Leland8:27 AM

      Then, mlaiuppa, you are one of the lucky ones. Be very grateful.

      And shunning and loneliness are bad only if one hasn't come to terms with one's SELF. I know very few people who are able, for instance, to spend a long period of time alone with no artificial noises such as the radio.

      It was a great day for me when I reached the point of LIKING myself enough to be alone and happy.

      My father once tried to force me to eat my liver by coercing me with that kind of crap. I ate it - and promptly lost every bit of it (and everything else I had that night) all over the dining room table. My mother simply looked at him and said, "Guess who is going to clean that mess up." And got up and walked away. (She had been trying to tell him I could NOT eat liver. It's a dietary thing, I guess.)

      (She brought me cake later that night in bed!)

      Delete
    2. Anonymous8:37 AM

      I guess eternal shunning and loneliness are acceptable then. Children don't mind that stuff.

      Delete
  12. Anonymous8:26 PM

    I never had the painful ostracizing issues that some of you had. I was pretty young when I asked if I'd be seeing my doggie again in heaven. Someone in my household told me no, that heaven was only for people. That set me to thinking, some of my favorite people were animals. Hmmm. I spent the next few years occasionally pondering this injustice until at age 7 I told my mom I wasn't interested in going to church anymore.
    I haven't spent much time in church as an adult. I haven't really had issues with religion through the years, I went my way and I respect my friends that find comfort in church fellowship and in some thought of redemption after death. I just personally found all that to be ridiculous and unnecessary for myself.
    In the last 10 or so years however, I've been pushed to "out myself" as an atheist. So I have. I have much less tolerance for any religious belief that gets in the way of freedom for all, period. One's mind and body is his or her own temple, not to be defiled or abused by others for any reason. The continued tampering with the laws of this country by the "christian taliban" has made me furious, as does the weakening and dumbing down of our secular education. No child left behind, my ass. More like no child left curious and enthused to learn.

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    1. Do you remember that old Rod Serling episode? The hunter and his dog die and they're traveling a road to find heaven. They get to a gate that's like a country club. The guy says you're welcome but not your dog. The hunters says thank you kindly but I'd rather keep traveling with my dog. They go on a piece and come to a ramshackle gate with a down to earth friendly chap in homespun. He invites them in. The hunter says is my dog welcome? The man says sure thing. The hunter says then this is heaven to me. That fellow down the road wouldn't allow my dog in. The friendly guy says oh, that fellow. He's a trickster all right. The implication being that the country club was hell and this friendly down to earth place was heaven.

      I'd like to think it's like that. And that my dogs will be waiting for me at the gate when I finally get there. I'll be looking for them. And if I don't see them, I'll just keep walking.

      Delete
  13. Anonymous9:31 PM

    When I was 7, I told my Catholic mother I wanted to be a nun. The panic and shock on her face told me all I needed to know about her true commitment to religion. Although I continued to obediently attend Mass until I left home, I spent the time pleasantly daydreaming...

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  14. Anita Winecooler9:41 PM

    This post is exactly why my husband and I decided to raise our kids without organized religion. We went through Roman Catholic Schools, and fear was the main tool in the classroom. Doors would slam, the nun would go off on a rage then say "What happens in this room, stays in this room". Anyone who's been through it knows the schtick.
    It caused a lot of friction early on because people in my family felt it their duty to inform me that if anything happened to my children and they weren't baptized, they wouldn't get to heaven. Some didn't speak to us for years, but I never forbade my kids from interacting with anyone. Eventually we were able to work things out and we're all close.
    The ironic thing is our kids intrinsically act more like big "c" Christians more then their "small c" christian relatives.

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    1. Anonymous3:52 AM

      This, until the day she hits the wrong kid and all hell breaks loose. Happened to in my 8th grade. Breast fondling nun goes ape shit on the toughest girl in the world. She runs out the back door, nun chases her.
      Another kid gets up locks that door, tough girl runs around to the other door, locks it behind her. There was a phone in the room, tough girl dials an outside line, calls dad.
      Cops show up, nun is GONE, new teacher the next day. Everything breast fondling nun did came out and it was a HUGE scandal as the girl she picked to fuck with... well her dad was a huge donor to the RCC and got the nun committed to the nun nut house in Catalina (it's not there now).

      Delete
    2. Anonymous8:12 AM

      3:52 Great story!!
      My mom was apparently finger fucked by a nun in 5th grade. When my mom told her mom, my mom was beaten for lying about a nun. I think this is part of why my mom was so nuts.
      Anyways, this was 1950.

      Delete
    3. Leland8:35 AM

      Anita, I was raised High Episcopalian. About the only difference between Catholics and them is there is no pope in the Episcopal church.

      In Sunday school once, I remember hearing our teacher make a claim that I personally found to be so ludicrous I lost it. I fell over laughing. She came over and tried to beat me to stop laughing. Used an oak pointer stick, too!

      She was not a happy camper when I took it from her and BROKE it across HER back. I told her that NOBODY beats me like that. She went to the priest and complained. They threw me out.

      Can you guess my reaction?

      YYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Delete
  15. Anonymous10:20 PM

    When I joined girl scouts they met in the local methodist church in one of the Sunday school classrooms. We never really discussed religion in my family and my brother and I were raised without any religious influence. I remember walking around that sunday school class looking at the posters and other religious material and asking my scout leader what happened in this room. She thought I was being funny and told me that Sunday school was held in that room. She then asked what church my family attended and I told her "none", which raised her eyebrows a bit but we never discussed it again.

    I had friends that attended church and Sunday school but I never really had a concept of what they went there to do exactly. I just felt bad for them that they had to go to school on Sunday while I got to sleep in or do something fun!

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  16. Anonymous10:43 PM

    O/t Wonkette and the sea of pee together have been laughing at MJshepard at the end of the open thread. Everyon needs to read it.

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  17. Anonymous3:28 AM

    Yeah - that's pretty fucked up.
    I still get a chill up my spine if my feet are under my bed a little bit when I am standing in my bedroom. My crazy mother would tell me the devil lurked there and would grab me if I was bad. I am 49 years old! Uncontrolled response. I can remember being terrified for months after watching the Exorcist. Now I laugh at it. It is based on a true story, but i think the kid was mentally ill, not possessed.
    I am not raising my kids to believe in anything other than critical thinking and diversity. And science.

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  18. Anonymous9:24 AM

    "Now I lay me down to sleep,
    I pray the the lord my soul to keep.
    If I should die before I wake,
    I pray the lord my soul to take."

    IF that doesn't scare the wee out of you, nothing will. I don't know how many nights I was too afraid to sleep.

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    1. Rockabye baby in the tree tops.

      When the wind blows the cradle will rock.

      When the bough breaks the cradle will fall

      And down will come baby, cradle and all.

      What is it with child abuse lullabies?

      Delete
  19. Anonymous6:30 PM

    "mlaiuppa1:17 PM
    And if I don't see them, I'll just keep walking."---

    hey thanks for that, even tho you prolly wont see this.
    id forgotten that one and very glad you told the
    story. thanks.:):)

    ReplyDelete

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