Monday, June 03, 2013

The greatest health care in the world? Only if by "greatest" we mean "most expensive."

Courtesy of New York Times:  

Americans pay, on average, about four times as much for a hip replacement as patients in Switzerland or France and more than three times as much for a Caesarean section as those in New Zealand or Britain. The average price for Nasonex, a common nasal spray for allergies, is $108 in the United States compared with $21 in Spain. The costs of hospital stays here are about triple those in other developed countries, even though they last no longer, according to a recent report by the Commonwealth Fund, a foundation that studies health policy. 

While the United States medical system is famous for drugs costing hundreds of thousands of dollars and heroic care at the end of life, it turns out that a more significant factor in the nation’s $2.7 trillion annual health care bill may not be the use of extraordinary services, but the high price tag of ordinary ones. “The U.S. just pays providers of health care much more for everything,” said Tom Sackville, chief executive of the health plans federation and a former British health minister. 

Colonoscopies offer a compelling case study. They are the most expensive screening test that healthy Americans routinely undergo — and often cost more than childbirth or an appendectomy in most other developed countries. Their numbers have increased manyfold over the last 15 years, with data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention suggesting that more than 10 million people get them each year, adding up to more than $10 billion in annual costs. 

Largely an office procedure when widespread screening was first recommended, colonoscopies have moved into surgery centers — which were created as a step down from costly hospital care but are now often a lucrative step up from doctors’ examining rooms — where they are billed like a quasi operation. They are often prescribed and performed more frequently than medical guidelines recommend. 

The high price paid for colonoscopies mostly results not from top-notch patient care, according to interviews with health care experts and economists, but from business plans seeking to maximize revenue; haggling between hospitals and insurers that have no relation to the actual costs of performing the procedure; and lobbying, marketing and turf battles among specialists that increase patient fees.

One of the primary ways that the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare if you rather, was going to bring down the cost of health care, was by introducing competition into the system that would force hospitals and doctors to reduce the costs of many of the medical procedures.

I have always believed that THAT was what was driving a lot of the blowback from both doctors and health insurance companies. The sweetheart deals that they and the pharmaceutical companies have forged have made them all filthy rich, while bankrupting hard working Americans by the thousands.

If people REALLY understood how Obamacare was going to affect our access to reasonably priced insurance and health care moving forward there would be NO average citizen in the country that would not be all for it.

And those who remained against it would only be the Republicans who realized that their political careers were over once people understood what the bill would do for them, and that THEY had done everything in their power to stop it from being implemented, and the greedy medical professionals who are unwilling to give up those huge checks.

Personally I am looking forward to the day when we can do away with insurance companies altogether and have universal health care for all.  You know it's coming, I just hope it arrives in my lifetime.

25 comments:

  1. Anonymous2:13 AM

    Until we get Universal healthcare, we should have politicians pay for their own healthcare, plus their pensions. They get a free ride, with taxpayers footing the bill. They only work 3 days a week at the most, which is part time at any private companies, no benefits provided. The cost of these perks are never mentioned. Time to lay it all out, how much do these deadbeats REALLY cost us? Useless people, all they do is slam the President, doing nothing for regular people.

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  2. Anonymous2:31 AM

    I wish I shared your optimism, Gryph. As with background checks for gun purchases, which an overwhelming msjority of Americans supported and were ignored, there's too much money to be made and our "leaders" turn a deaf ear to those they were elected to represent.

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  3. Anonymous3:14 AM

    Personally, I'm thinking of the rationing that is already taking place. Canada has a poor HC system and 'rill' people complain about it. Though most of the complaints I hear from there are most politically based.

    And keep in mind that there is a reason Europeans STILL come here, why medical innovators come here. If there's no reward, people will begin to stop innovating.

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    1. lostinmn6:09 AM

      You are wrong on about every count. Thirty five years in the medical device field I saw health care delivery in most major countries of the world. The Canadian HC system is far from poor. In fact their measurable outcomes are far better than the USA. And yes, most of the complaints are generated by the far right conservatives. Medical innovation is global, not just US driven. What seems to be US driven innovation is quite often a US company developing things overseas at their research offices. They use foreign countries because their laws allow the commercialization of products before the US. Most products that are introduced in the US have already been commercialized in Europe. Keep in mind that the so-called medical innovation is being paid for by the US patient through the kind of fees you can read in the chart above. As for Europeans flocking to the US for care you should be aware there are many motivators for that; some of them have to do with constraints on a particular HC system. Others include people wanting a procedure that isn't covered or was deemed too expensive compared to an alternative treatment available in their own country. And let's face it, some come here because they think it's prestigious to come to the USA for treatment. The US does have some pockets of amazing care - Mayo Clinic still gets the Arab princes. But for the most part medical care in countries with national HC is better than most of the US. It's a simple fact you can check by looking at stats. And btw, for every horror story you hear about other countries I can probably give you five from here. Heck, even Sara ran over to Canada for low cost health care back before she was rich. She may still.

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    2. Maple6:28 AM

      The wealthiest and largest pharmaceutical companies are European-based, by the way. The largest medical tech machinery companies are also European-based.
      One very very good thing about Canadian healthcare -- no one goes bankrupt. And while some elective procedures have lengthy waiting lists, patients with life-threatening illnesses like heart disease or cancer always go to the head of the line, And infant mortality is lower and life expectancy is higher than in the U.S.

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    3. Anonymous8:13 AM

      I'm a Canadian who has immigrated to the US and sorry but you are very wrong about the health care back home. My healthcare standard has dropped since crossing the border and the cost for insurance is crazy and i'm a healthy non-smoker, non drinker with no health issues. The insurance care system in this country is all about making money no one cares who goes broke trying to get treatment.
      The Canadian system works as a triage where the sickest get treated first ( which makes sense). I know more Americans who go to Canada for treatment than i do Canadians who comes here. Drugs are cheaper , out of pocket costs are lower and mortality rates are lower. The reason most of the comments you see are political is becasue there are some i Canada who want a system like the US but the rest of us live in reality and see the issues with the system here. it may not be perfect but i doubt you will find many average Canadians willing to give it up to deal with a system like here.

      Delete
  4. Anonymous3:25 AM

    Totally off topic, but - do you know what's happened with Stonekettle Station? Something really weird is going on.

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    1. Anonymous5:21 AM

      It's a technical problem. Jim is working on it.

      Delete
  5. Sally in MI3:27 AM

    I hope it's coming, but the GOP is bound and determined to poison everyone against the ACA and its benefits. And they and their lobbyists have the cash and the news outlets to continue their lies for a long time. Our only option is to vote out every GOP stooge we can, and at the earliest opportunity. We can only save our planet and make health care better, if Democrats are in charge.

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  6. I hope it arrives in your lifetime too, Gryphen! I don't think it will in mine.

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  7. Anonymous6:28 AM

    "The average price for Nasonex, a common nasal spray for allergies, is $108 in the United States compared with $21 in Spain."

    Whaaaaaaaaaaat? I paid mine a couple of weeks ago about 8$.

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    1. Anonymous9:09 AM

      That would be your co pay. It would coat me 25$. If my insurance allows it. See the insurance company is really your prinary care provider . Your doctor nay prescribe one thing but the insurance gods decide whether or not though shalt have it . Did you ever notice when you call anew doctor or specialist , the first question is not your name or your issue, eather it is "what is your insurance?" That decides whether thou shalt be seen by that specialist for that issue. Fuck insurance companies. Healthcare needs to be not for profit. Only then will people come to their senses about getting people truly well.

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    2. Anonymous12:45 PM

      The thing is, i live in Belgium. Even at full price, that thing costs less than 20 bucks.

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  8. Sharon6:57 AM

    The ACA allows millions more to have insurance....which is supposed to reduce the amount of free service provided by hospitals. That is the main excuse by providers for higher prices, the insured have to cover the uninsured. Doctors are saddled with ridiculous liability insurance plus the office staff to deal with insurance claims...that part of the equation is the root of all of it. I am no fan of doctor prices, but it starts with the insurance industry as a whole. For profit health care will never work to the benefit of us...Medicare for all is the answer. The ability to negotiate prices is the capitalism we need, something the GOP will never support...greedy bastards one and all.

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  9. Anonymous7:08 AM

    $1185 is a steal compared to what a colonoscopy cost me last fall in Mat-Su Regional. With extra office visits for pre-screening and follow-up and with the removal of one pre-cancerous polyp it was closer to $3000. Of course my insurance picked up most of it but now I'm expected to go for one every other year because they found something benign.

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  10. Anonymous7:14 AM

    We went to India for hip replacement surgery and dental work. It was absolutely perfect.

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    1. Anonymous9:23 AM

      I have co-workers (and their families) who go back to India for dental work and surgical procedures that aren't emergency.

      I also have neighbors who sent all three of their kids to Mexico for dental work, and braces for all three (not all at once, of course). That was years ago, and after the braces came off, all three have the loveliest smiles.

      I've been putting off three crowns for a couple of years now... maybe I should hop aboard the next bus to Mexico.

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  11. Maple7:16 AM

    "For-profit" healthcare doesn't work for several reasons, all of which the non-thinkers in the TPGOP intentionally ignore:
    1. Unlike picking out a new car, and deciding when you can afford to pay for it, illness springs unannounced
    2. You can shop around for the lowest price for your new car. Do you have any idea, or any way of finding out, how much your new "illness" is going to cost you?
    3. By the same token, when you're dangerously ill, you want healthcare ASAP, no matter the cost (which you don't have a clue about, anyway).

    Actually, about the only way the healthcare industry is similar to the free market is that, if you can't afford it, you can't have it. More's the pity.

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    1. It's more like extortion.

      Pay or you die.

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  12. Or we could get rid of private for profit insurance completely and really see costs come down. When you eliminate the middle man, you always save money.

    Kaiser is bugging me to get a colonoscopy. While I understand they want a baseline and that colon cancer is easiest to detect and cure when caught early, I just don't see why suddenly this has become a routine procedure. Especially as it involves putting me under. To me, anything that involves anesthetic is NOT routine and should be avoided.

    So I'm doing the fecal tests every year or six months or whatever. Not as accurate but fine with me.

    Now that I know what the comparable costs are I am certainly not undergoing a routine colonoscopy until right before I retire, when I'm still covered by healthcare through my work.

    Just compare that Angiogram, Hip replacement and Lipitor. There is NO justification for the prices that are charged in the U.S.

    I wish more papers and media would spread that report from the N.Y. Times. Kudos to them. Get the word out.

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    1. Anonymous6:58 AM

      mlaiuppa10:25 AM
      Don't do it! You have Medicare right?
      Oh and put you out...Bendryl! Since when does that put anyone "out".

      Delete
  13. Anonymous10:28 AM

    Healthcare Costs Exposed

    http://takethe5th.com/wp/2013_06/healthcare-costs-exposed/

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  14. Anita Winecooler7:38 PM

    Years ago, in Bill Clinton's first term, my sister in law worked as a receptionist for a group practice. Her family and her went on all these extravagant vacations to all kinds of exotic places. She got a membership to a business that sells furniture and accessories, has interior decorators, lawn and landscape professionals etc etc.. She purchased top notch appliances, high end amenities and drove some pretty expensive vehicles.
    All this came from the Doctor's affiliations with Pharmaceutical companies and specialized health care service companies.
    All the doctors had to do was prescribe the name brand version, no substitutions allowed, and refer clients. The doctors offered them as "percs" for office staff.

    And You and I and our neighbors paid through our insurance and out of pocket expenses because the coverage offered for name brands is less than generics. I'm sure it wasn't only happening in that office, but since the ACA started, these "percs" have decreased dramatically, and I hope once the ACA takes full effect, they'll stop completely. Drug prices are obscene, and there's no reason for the disparity in prices for these services shown in that chart.

    Take away the middle man, make companies compete in the open market, and allow the government to get better prices for services and drugs based on the number of people insured by the ACA.

    I hope I see it in my lifetime.

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    1. Well, sometimes generics are just fine and sometimes they're not.

      I've tried generic thyroid meds three times and none of them have worked consistently. I'm back on name brand Synthroid, even though Kaiser has to special order it.

      Now I can take the Omeprazole (Prilosec) just fine.

      But the Simvastatin caused all sorts of problems I couldn't tolerate it.

      Sometimes the name brands are better than the generics.

      But that's not why they are so expensive. It's the middle men/ insurance companies and it is very much Big Pharma's lobbying, protections and subsidies.

      They'll get grants to have drugs created by University graduate and doctoral students, then patent them and sell them for obscene amounts of money claiming how it cost them so much to develop. When it's often the government that subsidized the grants in the first place.

      There is a lot that could see improvement in this country but I think universal healthcare should be number one. It could alleviate so much to muzzle that extortion racket. You'd see the economy improve so much once people aren't going bankrupt because of health issues.

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    2. Anonymous6:59 AM

      Get Armour!
      Better than syncrap!

      Delete

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