I have refrained from posting about this trial while it was going on, and believe me I watched ALL of it, because I became too emotional, and knew I would end up writing a long and rambling post that I did not have time to write and you probably did not have time to read.
However now that it is over, ramble I must. Though I will try to keep it as short and on topic as I can.
You know I thought I was prepared for last night's verdict. But I was wrong.
It hit me hard, and also made me furious.
From the outset I found nothing defensible about Zimmerman's actions.
His muttered "These assholes always get away" was evidence of racial profiling in my opinion.
The fact that he left his vehicle in defiance of instruction, determined his intent to confront in my opinion.
And his use of a gun to end an altercation with a teenage boy determined his guilt in my opinion.
Open and shut case right?
Nope.
Not if you have $300,000 in Kickstarter donations from NRA supporters to fund your defense it isn't. And let's face it, without this high priced group of lawyers, Zimmerman would be cowering in a corner in fear of his new prison cellmate right about own.
Look I have watched my share of CSI but I am no expert on forensic evidence. However I will say that rain is not very good at washing away blood that ha seeped into clothing or become encrusted on hands.
It might wash away blood on grass and concrete but, as somebody who has washed blood off my hands a fair number of times, I can assure you that it takes a substantial amount of scrubbing to get them clean. And even then, according to CSI's Gil Grissom, you would still find trace amounts that could be detected by forensics.
So the idea that Trayvon Martin was pummeling Zimmerman, and then showed virtually NO trauma or blood on his hands as a result, is the end of the case for me.
Then you have this.
Now we get to my actual area of expertise. Your Uncle Gryphen knows how to fight.
In fact your Uncle Gryphen has trained law enforcement in hand to hand techniques, and let me just tell you that IF Zimmerman's story about his gun being in the BACK waistband of his pants, and his story about Trayvon Martin being on top of him while hitting him are both true, and I have my doubts about both, then Trayvon Martin would alive today. Period!
Because as out of shape as Zimmerman was, and as aggressive as he swears Trayvon was being, he could NEVER have brought his ass up high enough to get his gun. Nope, did not happen.
Now let's talk injuries.
I probably do not have to tell most of you that the head bleeds profusely when it is injured, even slightly. I cannot tell you the number of times I thought some child's brain was falling out their head after a fall only to clean it up and see small cut causing all of the fuss.
And as for nosebleeds? Please, I once broke a man's nose and had to throw away the shirt I was wearing because it was doused in so much blood.
And that was MY shirt, not his.
But where was Zimmerman's blood on Trayvon? Not one tiny bit.
Here is what I think happened.
Zimmerman was upset that this black kid was walking around, because it made Zimmerman feel fearful in some way. In response, and because he knew he was armed, he decided to follow Trayvon. At some point he very well might have lost Trayvon, and then when Trrayvon reappeared he was startled. If he looked at all fearful, Trayvon, who may have been a little frightened himself, became emboldened and approached Zimmerman. A scuffle probably took place, and Zimmerman, feeling outclassed and in a panic, shot that young man to death.
I think most of that scenario matches the facts pretty closely don't you?
Now, as to the gun.
No gun, no approach by Zimmerman. No gun, no confrontation. No gun, no young man's death.
The gun gave a cowardly man the courage to follow Trayvon in the dark. The gun gave him the confidence to engage with Trayvon instead of running away when surprised by him, And the gun gave him the power to steal the life of that mother's child away from her.
Here let me tell you a short story.
Years ago there was a bear mauling in the interior of Alaska.
The guy that was mauled had a sidearm with him. He was warned by some hikers that there was a large brown bear up ahead, but the gun gave him confidence and he did not do the intelligent thing and turn around.
When the bear burst from the underbrush, the man was terrified, fumbled for his weapon but was too slow, and the bear ripped away part of his scalp and chewed him up pretty good before wandering off with bits of dumb ass between his teeth.
You see that gun gave the man a sense of invulnerability, as if just having it made him too bad ass to be fucked with. And also gave him the confidence that if he WERE fucked with he would regain dominance by virtue of his powerful weapon.
Without that gun he would have turned around. There would have been NO attack, NO mauling, and NO man with half his scalp ripped off walking among us today.
Now for the fight.
I have trained a number of people in self defense. At no time have I EVER suggested that a student buy a gun.
The reason? Guns are not for defense. Guns are for ending a life.
Self defense means using ONLY the force required to protect yourself from bodily harm, or death.
Hear are the guidelines that I was given by my first martial arts teacher when I was just a boy, to use in response to a confrontation.
"It is better to walk away than to talk. Better to talk than to injure. Better to injure than to maim. Better to maim than to kill. And better to kill than to allow innocents to suffer."
I have to admit, to my shame, that I have not always followed those guidelines to the letter, but I have never jumped from the first response to the last. I may have used more force than was necessary a time or two but I did not end an opponents life, nor maim them for the remainder of that life.
Oh and don't get me wrong the ability to do both is well within my skill set. But I DO NOT have the right.
And that is finally what this comes down to. Did George Zimmernan have the right to kill that young man?
The young man who HE decided to follow in the dark? The young man who HE did not bother to warn that he was carrying a gun? The young man who HE did not inform he was part of the neighborhood watch. The young man who HE did not give a chance to walk home that rainy night?
Well you know what I think.
Update:
Okay here's another thing that I cannot get out of my head.
I don't know how many of you have been pummeled by somebody, but your instinct in that situation is to cover your vulnerable head and maybe strike back once the opportunity presents itself.
The action of moving one hand away from its defensive posture to reach for a gun, and leave that side of your face and head vulnerable, is very non instinctual. Which means that Zimmerman would have made the choice to accept a number of blows to his face in order to retrieve his weapon.
That is not a defensive maneuver in my mind. It is a murderous one.
According to reports Zimmerman had some training in MMA style fighting. The list of counter moves to use while on your back and straddled are too numerous to name. If Zimmerman knew even one or two he could have easily gained the upper hand and used his superior size to overcome his smaller opponent.
In fact several of these moves would have used the same motion of lifting his hips that he would have HAD to use to get that gun out of his back waistband. Hips up, grab you opponent by the clothing on his left shoulder, while pushing him from the right near his hipbone or waist, and suddenly YOU are on top.
But apparently, according to his police statement, he did not even attempt that. Instead he CHOSE to end Trayvon's life.
Like I said, for me there should be NO chance that this guy would have walked free.
We were not there. One must assume innocence until proven guilty. Even reasonable doubt requires acquittal. Many are committing the sin of judging, assuming bad without proof; assuming evil in a heart which only God can see. In this case, there was not just reasonable doubt, but strong evidence, even from prosecution witnesses, that TM (a racist who called Zim n*gger and cracker) attacked Zim and beat him severely using concrete as his weapon. The evidence supports self-defense. TM got to his home and could have just gone in and called 911. Instead, it appears that he ambushed Zim in the dark.
ReplyDeleteWhy does anyone need the right to have guns, when we are all armed with sidewalks?
DeletePeople like you are seriously limited. You are the problem with this society.
DeleteSorry - but YOU don't know if any of that is true. What IS true is that Zimmerman got out of his car (after being advised not to), carrying a loaded gun, and followed Martin. He was not beaten severely by Martin, as Gryphen eloquently illustrated.
DeleteIgnorant troll alert.
DeleteIt appears trayvon couldn't get home because Zimmerman stalked him. It appears from the cell phone records he was on the phone talking while being stalked by Zimmerman- difficult to " ambush" someone while talking.
DeleteIf Zimmerman and trayvon were professional wrestlers, boxers or fighters they would have been in different weight classes because Zimmerman was 46 pounds bigger than trayvon. They would have never been put in a ring to fight each other. Why? Because the fight would have been unfair. Everyone would bet on the 29 year old man who was 46 pounds heavier.
Even if you were correct in your world of no facts-even if trayvon ambushed Zimmerman while talking on his cell phone-the fight would have been won by Zimmerman. The reason trayvon is dead is because he brought skittles to a gun fight.
If trayvon had intended to truly harm Zimmerman then why didn't he hit him over the head with the bottle of tea? Because all trayvon did was fight for his life.
Hopefully you Zimmerman supporters will be 'followed' by a Neighborhood Watch Poser just like Zimmerman.
DeleteIt is interesting that you chastice for Gryph not being there and then give your summation of what really happened one might remind you that you were not there either.I suppose you have no issues with teenagers being followed or maybe just certain teenagers. Zimmerman was not beaten severely, I have been hurt worst wrestling on the front lawn with my two younger sisters. You call him TM a racist but overlook all the racial history on Zimmerman's side or even the violence he has portrayed in the past.So much for you and your lecture on judging.
DeleteMaybe one rainy night, a Palin will be followed by a stalker like Zimmerman. What would happen then? Sarah Palin would be Crying Victim day and night. Zimmerman's life is over, he will be living just like Casey Anthony in hiding and looking over his shoulder.
Delete8:07 Zimmerman will be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life, deservedly so. He KNOWS he is not innocent. Killing a kid just because of the color of his skin. He will be recognized everywhere he goes. Likely his wife will divorce him because of the pressure of living in fear. He might soon wish he HAD gone to prison. Justice will be served one way or another in this case, believe that one. Meanwhile, deepest condolences to Trayvon's parents, who were composed and dignified through this whole ordeal.
DeleteMartin was LOST, on a dark, rainy night, in an unfamiliar housing development where few streets had signs and they all twisted around.
DeleteIf he looked aimless, it was because he didn't know where he was.
All the more reason that Zimmerman would think him to be up to no good, since Martin was hesitant and confused.
Instead of letting the police take care of it, or sitting in his truck and asking Martin if he could help him find where he was going, Zimmerman got out, confronted him, and shot him dead -- didn't wing him -- no, shot him in the heart.
There's not explanation or justification for it. He may have been acquited, but his life will, forever be stained by his murderous action.
Plus, that stupid fact of his, with the eys close together, the clear lack of inteligence, the soft and untrained body-- he'll be identified for years to come, since plastic surgery can't change those empty eyes, sitting right next to each other. A flounder face, almost. He'll have to move to some other part of the country-- but would an Aryan nation accept him? No.
Meanwhile, Z. gets his murder weapon back as per Florida law. So... The murderer will be out there, looking for his next victim. I just hope, his next victim has a weapon, too, and that he/she knows how to use it - and then also knows how to frame Z. As being the attacker, just like Z. was able to frame Trayvon...
DeleteI have a feeling Zimmerman has already gotten his passport back, and that Zimmerman's daddy booked a flight to Peru a few weeks ago for his little boy. Maybe George's big brother will go along as a babysitter.
DeleteAnd maybe George will be the stranger stalked, down there in Peru.
-----------------
One other thing Gryphen didn't dwell on, concerning the front and back pictures of Zimmerman's head, the cuts on the back of his head in particular: the blood trails of those cuts. The blood dripped off to the left, toward his left ear, straight down to his collar, and off at an angle to just below his right ear.
That would indicate that Zimmerman's head was down facing the ground at some point -- like it would be if he were astraddle Martin's body.
The question of course is was Martin still alive then, or was he dead?
POST: one must assume innocence until proven guilty.
DeleteRESP: Actually, that's not accurate. The only peoeple who must assume innocence are the jury members. The Judge doesn't worry about guilt or innocence. The rest of us are free to think and talk about it however we want.
Just becuase Zimmerman was found NOT GUILTY doesn't mean I want my kids, or me, to go for a neighborhood watch walk with him. Just cause OJ was found NOT GUILTY does not mean I think it's okay for my daughter dating OJ. I think he did it, I think he's dangerous. Just cuz Michael Jackson was found NOT GUILTY does not mean I would ever let my kids close enough to MJ for a relationship. He's dangerous to kids in my opinion.
assuming innocence is only required of the jury that may deprive him of his civil rights. After that, it's all about free speech and freedom to think what I want.
If you support "Zim" the child killer you are a racist scumbag. End of story. Thanks for revealing yourself to be a white supremacist.
DeleteRacist central Florida jury loves baby killers and racists. Free pass to murder babies and blacks in central Florida.
DeleteAnonymous @9:07 am: TM was NOT lost and wandering around. Hde was on his to his father's house in that apartment complex.
DeleteNice try, but EPIC FAIL.
Exactly DetroitSam,
DeleteTrayvon had every RIGHT to be where he was. His father lived in that gated community and Trayvon was there because he was visiting his dad. Zimmerman is a racist profiler and deserves to be charged by the DOJ on a hate crime. The evidence is there.
What is particularly evil in this situation is the RACISM of those who insist that TM was a victim and Zim was to blame based on having the same pigment as TM. Many of them may not know that Zim is afro-Peruvian American, having a black great-grandfather, which would probably have classified him as "colored" in the Old South & made Zim eligible for slavery.
ReplyDeleteZimmerman would pass for White. It's not unheard of that people hate a part of themselves and take it out of others. Hitler had Jewish blood. Closeted gays often are the most harshest gay bashers....
DeleteTake out race and he still killed a teenage boy unecessarily. He was the pursuer. He was the one carrying a weapon. Guns are for killing. Treyvon unfortunately brought his fists to a gunfight.
Delete6:53 AM Is that why Zimmerman called TM a 'FUCKING COON'? Was Zimmerman hyped on his Adderall Medication? We don't know, because his Father, Judge Zimmerman had close ties to the Sanford Police Department. Sanford PD botched the case by not Drug testing Zimmerman and Testing him instead of sending him home. Your Racial Bias is apparent. Zimmerman did not and does not identify himself as related to anyone Black. Zimmerman
Deleteis a Cousin Molesting POS.
I know plenty of people with black ancestors who would deny it to their grave. I read his father;s book they woudl not acknowledge any black ancestors.
DeleteAs one lawyer asked "Wasn't Trayvon standing HIS gound?" Why is it so dangerous in this country for a young black person to simply go to a store? I would hope that my kids would have fought back in this situation, too. Zimmerman was WRONG not to stay in his car as he was instructed. Vigilante justice does not belong in this country. He will NEVER have another completely peaceful night's sleep as long as he lives. He is GUILY of killing an unarmed teen, and he knows it. Karma will pay this lard ass a visit.
DeleteHe killed a young boy. may he rot in hell and you too.
DeleteShut up racist. I hope "Zim" is murdered like a dog.
Deleteas the MMA expert pointed out, Zimmerman probably hit his own face and head when he jumped Martin. If he did the Scrambler position wrong and missed, he would have landed face first. This is what I believe happened.
DeleteUnfortunately, we only have the words of a proven liar to go by. Zimmerman should have been found guilty of manslaughter for stalking and killing an unarmed teenager who was in his father's backyard.
Well said. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteJustice has been denied to Zimmerman. He has suffered long, been jailed, had to wear an ankle GPS, and had his money stolen from him by the American Injustice System. Zim was denied a Grand Jury, apparently by those who catered to a lynch mob mentality by racist afro-americans. How can Zim ever be made whole? And he stands to have to go through a civil trial now, though he may counter-sue for defamation. Crump may have to pay up.
ReplyDeleteThe Acquittal is only a little justice for the persecuted Zimmerman, who was only defending himself from a terrible ground & pound concrete attack. Zim had to listen to Guy prosecutor call him a liar over & over with no chance to respond since the prosecutor gets the last word. Zim had to listen to liar Guy state in certain terms the evil in Zim's heart, when no one but God knows what is in a man's heart.
As To TM, justice has not been denied to him. TM is gone from earth; he will get justice from the Lord who knows the heart and exactly what each man does. What TM's family was denied was VENGEANCE! It is a sin to JUDGE (assume evil & that you know what you do not). It is a sin to seek vengeance. Vengeance is mine, the Lord says. Final & perfect justice will come, but only from him to us all.
There is no God. Expecting God to make everything right after life is stupid. God doesn't intervene in your life or anybody else's. He's not giving you diseases to test you, or making you pregnant because it's his plan.
DeleteSee above... three paragraphs from another complete idiot. Justice was denied Travon you cretin.
DeleteFreedom handed to Zimmerman on a silver platter. He was not persecuted-he went 45 days before being charged with a crime. Trayvon's side of the story never got told. Trayvon's life wasn't lived.
DeleteTrayvon did not profile Zimmerman. Trayvon did not call 911 and say derogatory things about Zimmerman. Trayvon did not get out of his car with a gun against the direction of the 911 dispatcher. Trayvon did not stalk Zimmerman. Tray on did not kill Zimmerman.
Regarding your religious bs-thou shalt not kill. Precious are the children.
Zimmerman shot tray on at point blank. He could have used the gun to hit tray on. He could have used the gun to shoot him in the arm, shoulder, leg or hand and injured him without killing him. He could have fired a warning shot in the air.
He didn't and trayvon Martin received no justice.
Zimmerman is out there with a gun and permission to shoot teenagers in hoodies.where are your children?
Justice has been denied to George Zimmerman?WTF? Would you not seek justice if your child was killed! Seeking to have someone made accountable for killing your child is not seeking vengeance.
DeleteTrayvon has received justive because he's dead and will receive his judgement grom the lord? WTF?
Keep spouting your bible BS to try and cover your racism.
Aw poor Zimmerman. Had his money stolen from him? How about the hundreds of thousands of dollars he's collected from gun nuts and RWNJ's. Remember the money he and his wife lied about under oath.
DeleteAw poor Georgie who will now be profiled for the rest of his life and live in fear of armed vigilantes taking justice into their own hands. He can spend the rest of his life feeling like Trayvon did that night as Zimmerman profiled and followed him. Maybe justiced was served. Karma's a bitch.
You are a fake idol worshiping fool. You know not what you write about. Fools like you are why these types of cases fail to produce the truth. Put down the Fundie Kool-Aid and get a clue. Zimmerman was the Ground and Pound Student who studied 'Stand Your Ground Laws' and was a Wannabe Cop.
DeleteFuck you, Zimmerman did not have to follow and confront a teen boy. He caused this by his actions, but go send him money if he is your hero, though I bet you are strutting into your church right now, proclaiming to be religious.
Delete"Thou shall not kill"
DeleteNow lets talk about sins.
George Zimmerman has a documented history of violence and uncontrolled anger, particularly at those whose skin color is darker than his. He thought HE could decide, with no evidence whatsoever, that Trayvon Martin was 'up to no good'. If he'd seen Trayvon attempting to break into a home or steal from someone, that would have been a different story.
DeleteTrayvon Martin should be alive today and Zimmerman should have stayed in his truck like he was told to do. Instead, a young life has been wasted and his killer gets to go free.
This was not the first time Zimmerman was involved in a violent incident and I doubt it will be the last.
Please don't presume to know God if you make these remarks. If you knew Him, you'd show grief and sadness at the fact that a teen boy was unnecessarily murdered. By the good fruit, we know those who follow Him. Whether TM or GZ started the fight and a killing ensued, we'll never know, but either way, a boy died.
DeleteA godly character is acting to defend the fatherless, widows, and those who Jesus would defend. He defended a woman caught in the act of adultery,from being stoned. Defending a man who says he doesn't regret any of his actions where he shot and killed a young person is not a repentant man.
The Lord does know each heart. Refusing to repent for taking the life of another is not a heart that follows after God. If you say what scripture says, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay", says the Lord," - you'd know that a grieving mother whose son's life was ebbed out of him by the hand of another man, is not the perpetrator here. GZ may have said he was sorry, in court, to the family. But he never admitted that he made a foolish mistake and couldn't even shed a tear in court while they showed photos of a dead Trayvon. What does that say about his heart?
I know one thing. If this had been my teenage son who was killed simply for going to the store, Zimmermann would have someone to live in fear of. I would not rest until I saw the bastard dead just like my son. Guaranteed!! Fox news thinks he has suffered emnough, since he got fatter in jail.
DeleteZimmerman is still walking and breathing, isn't he? No justice denied to him then. He got much more than he deserves.
DeleteHow does blood run forward from a wound on the back of the head if that person is lying on his back on the ground? Defy gravity? How does the rain wash Zimmerman's blood off of Trayvon but not off of Zimmerman's head. Racist rain? How do you shoot someone straight through the heart while lying on the ground? How do you do that and not get their blood on you? Questions the jury never considered.
DeleteRacist alert. Burn in hell scum.
DeletePeople like you are one of the reasons I walked away from christianity, talking about god with one side of your mouth and spreading ignorance and hate with the other.
DeleteIs it just me, or does someone else find it nauseating listening to Goerge Zimmerman's brother?
ReplyDeleteZimmerman's brother and Mark O'Mara. Mark O'Mara sounded like an arrogant slave master. I could not believe the way he spoke about Trayvon's body after death.
DeleteI find it more than nauseating that he said he's worried about GZ being killed by a vigilante. He obviously doesn't see the irony of his statement.
DeleteIt's not just you. Disgusting.
Delete7:33 -
DeleteAlmost as ironic as Zimmerman supporters saying that he had every right to defend his life, while not giving that same right to Trayvon.
Not too many tears will be shed if Zimmerman DOES run into an ADULT who wants payback for Trayvon.
Deletethey all suck. George's brother has already released a book complaining about the injustices his brother received because he innocently killed a black boy.
DeleteHis father, Zimmerman Sr, wrote a book with a chapter specifically called "Who's the Racist" and names every black person in Congress as well as the NAACP and countless others. The racists are the Zimmermans, especially the wannabe cop who knew he could get away with killing a black boy. After all, 50% of killers of blacks are never prosecuted. That's the way it's been for the entire history of the US.
What we have witnessed is State Sanctified Murder of Negroes.
I am so sorry that Trayvon is dead. I read that the Skittles he bought were actually for his 12 year old future stepbrother and not for himself. That night, he went for a walk to the store, bought an ice tea for himself, some candy for his little brother and was talking on the phone to a friend. Then he encountered a scary figure who was following him. I'm not Black, but I am female -- and I know the sense of fear when a large male figure is following you. Women and children should be able to walk down the streets safely and without fear in America. Women are blamed for their rapes, for being in the wrong place, dressing the wrong way, for being alone. Blacks are often considered being up to no good simply by being where they are. Four White men, is no concern to anyone, but four Muslims, four Blacks is group plotting against people. A Black kid is feared just by being on the sidewalk. Sad, really sad. And then he's responsible for making the fat White guy scared.
ReplyDeleteThe fat white guy should have stayed in his car, like he was told. How afraid was he, when he was carrying a gun? This is a disgrace that he was freed. The only justice is that he will NEVER be truly FREE. This will follow him for the rest of his rotten, racist life.
DeleteExcellent comment, 7:15 I'm a white mother of two daughters and a son, all teens, and what I saw in this case alarms me for everyone's kids.
DeleteHow six women found this criminal "not guilty", I'll never understand, but "not guilty" doesn't mean "innocent". Four of the six have kids AND a pro-gun slant, so Zimmerman DID got a jury of his peers.
For me, once Zimmerman was told not to follow Martin, that,s when he assumed responsibility for his actions.
ReplyDeleteExavtly!
DeleteAbolutely.
DeleteUnless Trayvon was clearly about to cause grave and immediate danger to someone else, Zimmerman should have stayed in his car and let the police handle the situation.
Oh yes, agree with all your points, G.
ReplyDeleteMy view is this. There were 3 witnesses. Trayvon, GZ, and God. The neighbors who witnessed didn't see the whole scuffle and said it was hard to see through the dark and the rain and their renditions were sketchy.
The only living person who knows the full truth is GZ. Individuals now are taking sides, because none of us know what really happened. All we can do is speculate. However, if we use common sense, those with common sense look at GZ's account of the story and see discrepancies. Those of us who use common sense look at Trayvon's activity that night and can't see a young man consciously bent on getting into a fight with a creepy armed man.
None of Zimmerman's story fits, in common sense terms. Kind of like the 'Sarah's wild birth ride'.
How can a responsible community man who supposedly studied the Law allow himself to get into that situation? He had the upper hand in every movement he made that night. His responsibility was to wait for the police to arrive. His responsibility was to stay out of harm's way and not put the community in danger, especially as he was armed. His account of getting out of his car to identify which street they were on moments before the shot fired is very suspicious.
When the police or 911 say stay, it was his civic duty to stay. But civic duty seemingly wasn't on his mind. He went rogue. He disobeyed, put the whole residential community in possible endangerment and didn't think about possible repercussions if his gun had been stolen and turned on him or possibly on an innocent bystander in their back yard. He didn't THINK of consequences to his actions. He acted irresponsibly and has not had to pay for the consequences.
I'll bet right now, if any other child standing near a window had been accidentally shot by GZ's gun, because he insisted on getting out of his car to "check out the street name" - he would be facing a civil trial and the Sanford Police would have kept him incarcerated from the get-go.
GZ's actions could have not only killed Trayvon, but could have killed any other innocent person. The Hannity interview showed he had absolute no remorse or regret; when asked if he would change anything about that night, he said NO. And his mention that it was an act of God, has to be the coldest-hearted deluded person and to have let him be acquitted........no words.
Exactly! The Hannity interview was an excellent vehicle to explain why GZ took the initial action of calling 911 to report a suspicious person. I don't fault him at all for that action and under the same circumstances I would have done the same thing. But Hannity's probe went further and when he asked him if there was anything he would have done differently that night he replied "nothing". Had he stayed in his vehicle TM would be alive today and GZ wouldnt have been on trial. The police would have questioned TM and sent him on his way home. End of story. So how could he say he would have done nothing different? That one action of getting out of the vehicle changed his life, his family's life and the life of an innocent person forever.
DeleteI think what happened was that GZ encountered TM again and TM stood his ground because TM was fearful of the guy who appeared to be following him. They had a verbal confrontation, TM punched GZ in the nose (not breaking it but dislocating it), GZ fell to the ground and hit his head, TM was straddling him, GZ screamed for help. At that point GZ was fearful of continued injury and TM may have continued to hit him. TM was taller and larger than GZ. GZ panicked, retrieved the gun and shot TM. I think this is where the jury had to come up with the conclusion that it was self defense because it was at that point.
But here's the deal...the gun gave GZ the confidence to get out of that vehicle in the first place. Foolish for so many reasons even if you do have a gun. He presumed TM was up to no good and if thats the case there is no reason for him to think that TM didnt have a weapon so why on earth would you pursue that person?
Bottom line was that GZ was a vigilante. He didnt get out of that vehicle to find a house number. He got out to make sure that "another one didn't get away". He became judge and jury that night for TM and if given the chance to do it over he wouldnt have changed a thing. Shameful. And frightening.
Sheesh
Just imagine the outcome if the person in the hoodie had turned out to be a white, well-connected, rich kid. THEN, IMO, we would have had a convicting jury and GZ would probably be in the hokey for good. And I seriously doubt any of the right wing blather would be following its present illogical course.
Delete8:25-
Delete"He became judge and jury that night "
That's the bottom line, right there. Except you forgot to add Executioner to that list.
THEY always get away. WHO always gets away Georgie? Criminals???
DeleteYou were PROFILING an innocent black child in his own neighborhood.
I choose to view this by the facts that we have been provided and as little supposition as possible. While I agree with your entire assessment, I disagree with your stance. You state, "This is what I think happened" and that is the crux. You are informed, passionate and wish to see justice done but cannot bring yourself to say "This is what happened." You have reasonable doubt, and under our legal system that is sufficient for acquittal.
ReplyDeleteThe "Stand your ground" law and its abuse by those who wish to take the law into their own hands is the problem here, I think.
You misunderstand my point.
DeleteWhile it is true that we will never have an account of what happened that night that we can know with complete certainty, I AM certain that the conflict, and the outcome, are without a doubt the fault of George Zimmerman.
And, if I may, George Zimmerman's gun.
Gryphon if I may-please delete the trolls commenting that Zimmerman was persecuted and trayvon is evil. Seriously-this is not the time to allow racist assholes freedom to speak. Trayvon Martin is dead and the man who killed him is free and packing. It is beyond tacky and hateful to allow these people your forum to speak their bullshit. There are other places they can go.
DeleteI would ask that you remove their comments. It is hard enough dealing with the verdict without having to read their ignorance and bigotry.
I hate having to get into bed with a douchebag like Zimmerman to discuss bigger issues, but so be it.
DeleteAgain, I agree with everything you said. Unfortunately, these things are filled with shit like "preponderance of evidence" and what exactly "reasonable doubt" means, but at its root, we have to let some dirty, guilty shitheads go to avoid punishing the innocent. The system is far from perfect, but I can't see a better alternative.
Martin didn't have much of a chance that night, and with the circumstances, in court later, but he had more of a chance than an innocent man pursued by the state that assumes guilt when doubt is involved.
Jesse, yours is the most rational defense of Martin that I have read. The areas of doubt that I had were the movements of Zimmerman during the missing two minutes and the reaching for the gun. Too bad both of them didn't have your teacher. Thank you, also, for posting opposite opinions.
ReplyDeleteI hope one day we will not have to consider the race of the people involved, but we have a long way to go. Read "The New Jim Crow." I'm sure a lot of what has kept the African-Americans from advancing is probably true of the Native Americans in Alaska.
I've read many of your comments across the internet about this trial and I think you should look in the mirror before offering advice to others about racism. Several of your comments perpetuated racial stereotypes.
DeleteSIZZURP ring a bell? Discussing Trayvon's school record and possible theft of a bag of jewelry as evidence he wad a dcary black kid while explaining away George's history of violence.
Why don't you go post about racism and Jim Crowe Laws on the RWNJ sites where you got many of your racist theories about Trayvon Martin. I'm sure they need the education more than we do here.
I have learned about "The New Jim Crow" from reading a right wing blog. There is racism in this country, and I don't think we can deny it. I have always been on the side of civil rights and attempts to equalize opportunities for all races.
DeleteJust because I have mentioned some of the problems that Trayvon Martin was having does not mean I think every young man in a hoody and even every black young man is into Lean.
In my youth I dated men of different races and ethnic backgrounds. I even found out first hand about racism when I was engaged to a man with one black and one white parent. All my family saw was the black parent.
I now have one grand child and three great grand children who have black lineage. I do not want them profiled because of their color.
I have become unpopular at my senior center in advocating for our growing Asian population. It disturbs me to see what the white clientele say about them.
I am far from a racist. I have tried to look at this situation to determine the facts. I have learned a lot about racial attitudes and guns and the gun culture. This does not negate my belief that we are innocent until proven guilty.
Implying that skittles and tea are used to make sizzurp and implying that's what Trayvon was going to make when he got home is not based on any facts of the case. And had absolutely no relevance to what hapened that night. It's based on a racist stereotype of young black men.
DeleteHaving a black friend or family member doesn't erase the possibility that some of your arguments are based on racial stereotypes not facts.
sizzurp has nothing at all -- nothing -- to do with Skittles and iced tea. Do some research.
DeleteBut, just imagine that he was going to do something like sizzurp once he got to his father's (the odds are infinitesimal), he wasn't going it when Zimmerman attacked him. He was talking on the phone, walking in the dark and in the rain, trying to find his way back,through confusing streets, to his father's house, where he'd not been before in the dark.
George Zimmerman couldn't have known Martin's past practices, or alleged future practice. He saw only a barely 17 year old boy who was wandering around, shielding his head from the rain with his hood, looking for his home. Zimmerman made ever bad assumption about that -- that Martin was aimless, that he was hiding his face, that he was looking for trouble. What troublemaker is talking on the phone to his girlfriend?
The entire Zimmerman story -- especially his assertion that this was "God's plan," is so patently false, so overwhelmingly deceptive, that someone should have seen through it. One lone juror. I'd love to hear what they have to say for themselves, if htey ever speak.
A civil suit will start soon. Then we'll have to hear all of Zimmerman;s conflicting testimonies.
not even addressing your racist stereotypes about black men-lean makes the one who drinks it lethargic and tired-much like pot does. if trayvon was partaking of either or both of these things he wouldn't be a "fighter". and lean is not made with skittles and tea. it is cough syrup, sprite and jolly ranchers. if trayvon went to the store to buy items to make a batch of lean then he would have bought the correct items.
Deleteagain, even if he was going to mix up some lean and even if he was a stoner -neither of those things amps a person up-they both deplete one of any energy. eating and sleeping are the side affects not fighting idiot!
and you do not know "some of the problems trayvon martin was having" for a fact. nor do you defend yourself by saying you do not think every young man in a hoody and every black man is into lean. what that statement implies is that you think some black men and some young men in hoodies are into lean. why would you assume anyone is into lean?
Deletehow can the color of someone's skin or what they are wearing tell you a thing about who that person is or what they are into?
there are many many white boys who wear hoodies and low hanging baggy pants because they are into rap or because it is the hip thing to wear or because their friends are wearing these items. there are also many many black boys who wear these same items of clothing who aren't into rap and are straight A students. you cannot ever know who someone is by their clothes or their skin color or their accent or what church/synagogue/mosque they attend or what party they vote for or who they love.
trayvon was a teenage boy who ran to 7-11 to get skittles and tea and is now dead.
that is the story folks. if he participated in a fight/altercation with zimmerman and even IF he was banging z's head into the cement-he was a teenager-he was not a THUG-he should not be dead. there is no way that boy should be dead.
anyone trying to excuse this farce of a trial by stating "facts" only has one person's account of that evening-george zimmermans. there were no other witnesses except trayvon and he is dead.
you don't get a do over. you don't get to say he was anything because he didn't get to be anything other than a 17 year old boy.
don't try to claim you aren't racist because you dated other races. if you aren't racist then you don't see race.
nothing i have said speaks to race in this trial. it doesn't matter the race of the shooter or the victim. a boy is dead and the man who shot him is free to shoot again.
trayvon could be anyone's child. ANYONE'S child and those who feel justice was served better keep their kids at home to be sure they are safe.
I have never accepted racial stereotypse.
DeleteMultiple people are confronting you about statements you made that perpetuated racial stereotypes. If you don't accept them, why repeat them especially in the context of trying to besmirch Trayvon Martin's (the victim may I remind you)character.
DeleteYou're doing just like Zimmerman and Sarah Palin. If you say it it is so regardless of proof to the contrary.
Ask yourself if you would have brought up Sizzurp/Lean if Trayvon had been white. I think you'll say "no" which proves our point that the implication that he might have been using it is perpetuating a racist stereotype.
Deleteeclecticsandra10:00 AM
DeleteI have never accepted racial stereotypse.
eclecticsandra7:26 AM
I'm sure a lot of what has kept the African-Americans from advancing is probably true of the Native Americans in Alaska.
Stereotype much? Please shut up now, you are an embarrassment.
I didn't know that Lean was only used by African Americans. I thought it was just a cheap way for teenagers to get a high. All the boys/men I see wearing baggy pants are white. Yes, I see race. It is part of identification. I also see gender, does that mean I am a sexist? We were first given an old picture of Trayvon from the days when he was still doing what his parents wanted him to do. Later we got glimpses of the stuff he put on his facebook that indicated that he was trying to be a "tough" guy with a gril, gang signs, and giving the finger. He wasn't all sweet and innocent. Neither was George Zimmerman.
Delete@eclatisandra
DeleteYou are an old prejudiced white woman who is attempting to defend a RACIST. Whatever you write keeps confirming this.
Please proceed.
He was innocent on the night in question. He was pursued by a stranger, and adult carrying a gun. Trayvon stood his ground and was killed. Too bad he didn't have a gun.
DeleteWhat about the pictures of Trayvon on a horse (10 days before he was shot)? He doesn't look very menacing there. He looks like a typical teenager. He's wearing beads around his neck over an orange Reece's Pieces (the candy) t-shirt. No grill, no giving the finger, no gang signs. Why wasn't that picture distributed? It was the last one taken of him.
You're falling for the racist crap in the media and the photos presented by the defense trying to make Trayvon look like a thug.
Even if you didn't know "Lean" was stereotyped to black males, you could have taken the source of the information into account. It was a RW racist meme used to try and attack the victim in an effort to prove Zimmerman was justified in killing an unarmed teenager.
Teenagers post all kinds of ridiculous photos on Facebook. They are exploring who they want to be.
DeleteWhen a teenage girl is raped is it OK to look at her photos on Facebook and say she was asking for it because she has provocative photos posted? Does it mean she's a slut and deserved what she got? Does it prove she's sexually active or promiscuous? No it doesn't. Teenagers posture on Facebook all the time trying to show they are something they're not. It's a part of growing up and determining who they want to be and how they want to be perceived.
A photo is just a snapshot in time. It doesn't always speak to someone's character. My kids play dress up all the time and take pictures of themselves trying to look tough. They aren't thugs and there's no proof Trayvon Martin was either.
Teenagers post all kinds of ridiculous photos on Facebook. They are exploring who they want to be.
DeleteWhen a teenage girl is raped is it OK to look at her photos on Facebook and say she was asking for it because she has provocative photos posted? Does it mean she's a slut and deserved what she got? Does it prove she's sexually active or promiscuous? No it doesn't. Teenagers posture on Facebook all the time trying to show they are something they're not. It's a part of growing up and determining who they want to be and how they want to be perceived.
A photo is just a snapshot in time. It doesn't always speak to someone's character. My kids play dress up all the time and take pictures of themselves trying to look tough. They aren't thugs and there's no proof Trayvon Martin was either.
anon, 11:30. You are very unkind. I have no idea what you are because you don't even identify yourself.
DeleteAnon 12:03. You are right that kids post all sorts of wrong things on Facebook. It doesn't mean that they should be assaulted. What it does indicate is that they have passed some point of not being completely innocent. Millions of people started praising this young man without knowing anything about him. Nobody could disclose why he was suspended from school. He was out without supervision, so his parents must have accepted a lot of adult ability on his part. His father didn't even know he was missing until the next day, and who did he call? Juvenile detention.
DeleteIt is important that we recognize people for what they do and who they are, not just for whatever race they are.
@ eclecticsandra
DeleteTruth hurts. Please proceed RACIST.
@ eclecticsandra12:49 PM you said
DeleteIt is important that we recognize people for what they do and who they are, not just for whatever race they are.
Please proceed, RACIST.
@eleclecticsandra Can I get a link to where the father called juvenile detention please? You keep spouting this "insider" information yet never follow-up with a link. My guess is you got it from some RWNJ site.
DeleteWho was praising Trayvon? They were simply trying to get justice for an unarmed teenager who was shot and killed while innocently walking home from the store. All I heard in the media was negativity about Trayvon. Most of your comments are much more critical of Trayvon than they are of George Zimmerman. He was 17, why would he need a adult supervision to walk to the store? My son is 13 and he can walk to the store by himself. That doesn't mean he's an adult or that his parents have "accepted a lot of adult ability on his part". Why is Trayvon Martin not presumed innocent but George Zimmerman is. You are extremely biased in your assumptions. You are literally twisting yourself into knots trying to prove that George Zimmerman was in the right in shooting Trayvon.
Take your own advice:
"It is important that we recognize people for what they do and who they are, not just for whatever race they are."
You don't know Trayvon Martin anymore than you know George Zimmerman. You're operating on assumptions and some of them are racist. Again, if I were you I'd go back and read through my comments and then maybe you'll see why you keep getting negative reactions.
I got a lot of information from Wagist.com. Much of it is well thought out. Maybe a lot of the stuff I got there was not true, but I never saw it even considered on the usual liberal blogs. Read some of my comments over there, and I don't think you will characterize me as racist. I am very hurt by this characterization. It is much worse than being called a communist or a socialist which the people at Wagist do all the time.
Delete@ eclecticsandra1:27 PM
DeleteYou are hurt because the truth of who YOU really are has been exposed to you and you refuse to believe it.
Please proceed, RACIST.
We were first given an old picture of Trayvon from the days when he was still doing what his parents wanted him to do. Later we got glimpses of the stuff he put on his facebook that indicated that he was trying to be a "tough" guy with a gril, gang signs, and giving the finger. He wasn't all sweet and innocent.
Deleteso ececticsandra,
you didn't rebel as a teenager then? no drinking, no swearing, no smoking, sneaking out at night, having sex, going to parties with no parents home, you never wore clothes or shoes or makeup that wasn't approved by your parents? so what if trayvon was exploring life. he wasn't a gang banger, he wasn't a heroin or crack addict, he didn't have a criminal record because if any of those things were true the defense would have blared it from the highest towers.
trayvon was a teen. z is an adult man. z is almost 30. trayvon wasn't even old enough to join the military or legally drink and barely old enough to drive. z was over 21, living on his own, had multiple jobs, girlfriends, etc. trayvon was a "normal" teenager-look at what he bought at 7-11!!!!! so what if he had gold teeth. so what if there was a picture of a pot plant.
are you really so heartless and clueless that you can equate a teen to a grown man?
and maybe his parents first called juvenile detention because their son was a young black boy in florida-did you ever think of that? and maybe they called juvenile detention because it never even passed through their minds that he could be dead or that he possibly ran away. no, the only thing they thought is that some creepy ass cracker arrested him. well they were close, a creepy ass cracker shot him dead.
S.H.O.T. H.I.M. D.E.A.D.
@eclecticsandra 1:27
DeleteSome of these things were not discussed on liberal blogs because they are racist and irrelevant to the case. Assumptions about "thug" pictures of Trayvon on Facebook, his father calling juvenile detention first (which I call BS on until you provde a verifiable link) the possibility that he stole jewelry ate all irrelevant to the case and are just a way to try to blame the victim.
I think you're hurt because you've realized that you fell for some racist crap and let it influence your opinion of the facts and let it lead you to false assumptions about the victim. And worse you shared the racist crap as fact therefore perpetuating racist stereotypes and racism.
Apparently Zimmerman's brother was whining on CNN that his brother will have to look over his shoulder the rest of his life.
ReplyDeleteViva la KARMA!
Good, maybe some white person will get suspicious of him in THEIR neighborhood and act as he did.
DeleteAnd that is some small measure of justice. Zimmerman will always and forever know that fear of a vigilante stalking him and possibly killing him. And excuse my attitude, but it wouldn't make me the least bit sad if someone did.
Delete8;08 I agree. He will not know another moment's peace. He may think he "got away" but karma is a bitch, Georgie.
DeleteZimmerman is a thug with prior arrests for violent behavior that in a sane world would have precluded him from ever owning a firearm, instead he was armed and unstable and walking the streets as a vigilante. He'll get his in the end, in a dark alley, when he's least expecting it justice will be served.
ReplyDeleteThank you!!!
DeleteThe thing that shocks me is every news site that invites commentary on the subject has been bombarded with Zimmerman supporters and there are few who are speaking out about the other side, and the fact that we have to rely on Zimmerman's account as fact. The law accepts his account as fact now.
ReplyDeleteBut the hardest part to accept in this case is the indignation from Zimmerman supporters that Trayvon defenders still feel this is an injustice. Those who don't believe Zim's account are painted as America's enemies. There's more than meets the eye with those who support him.
The right wing response to this trial has been nothing short of orgasmic and euphoric. Combine this verdict with a nation of armed, angry, bigoted white men of questionable male self-acceptanace who are bent on having a race war (per their own websites), and who are spurred on by Koch brothers/ALEC-funded legislatures that passed Stand Your Ground laws and an NRA funded by God-only-knows-who, and it's enough to give me the shivers.
DeleteSome are suggesting a boycott of Florida, but why not of every Stand Your Ground state? The wallet is the only point of feeling that these people have. Until the citizens at large have to pay a price for the damage that their belief systems do to other people, they will not change.
And as for the religious righties who love their guns and who are exulting in this, I have a question: just how favored in God's opinion were the two notable hunters mentioned in the Bible – Nimrod and Esau?
Some cold comfort to be taken that we did at least get a trial.
ReplyDeleteI've said it before and I'll say it again:
Bitterly disappointed but not a bit surprised at the verdict.
Cried myself to sleep, then tossed and turned all night.
Hate is alive and very well fed on the bodies of our children here in Florida, and we are not alone in these divided states of America.
Damn the NRA and damn ALEC for Stand Your Ground and all their hate and fear-mongering.
Y’all think carefully before you book a vacation with The Mouse, y’hear?
I’ll be standing my ground at the ballot box come 2014.
How about you?
May our votes speak as clearly as Zimmerman’s gun.
Here’s a little something from Nick and Elvis for this morning:
…as I walk on through troubled times my spirit gets so downhearted sometimes
So where are the strong? and who are the trusted? and where is the harmony?
’cause each time I feel it slippin’ away, just makes me wanna cry…
Whats So Funny About Peace Love & Understanding?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeFlPxMTP24
L’Shalom, brothers and sisters, L’Shalom,
thatcrowwoman
I'll never go to Disney anything, or Florida anything, until the state and its citizens become a part of the 21st century.
DeleteNo need to pay good money to fantasize there, fool my children, and support the economy that supports George Zimmerman and his revolting "Knock, knock" lawyers.
I'm with you, Thatcrowwoman! They call it "Like no place on earth" for a reason. Guess it applies to all of Florida.
DeleteWhere was the "12 person" jury? Why just 6 jurors? Zimmerman will have a VERY LARGE legal bill to pay and that may be the only justice issued in this case.
ReplyDeleteFrom everything I've read and heard about this case, the prosecution did a lousy job. I wonder just how invested they were in winning this case.
DeleteDo you really think so? Or maybe, just maybe, the NRA stepped up to handle that.
DeleteDon't worry... The gun worshipers will pay for his legal fees. He already has ammassed more than $300K from nutty supporters all over the country.
DeleteIt's over - he was acquitted.
ReplyDeleteThat's how it works in this country.
Zimmerman is not guilty.
Like it or not: it is over.
I think you are very mistaken about that.
DeleteRandall said the same when OJ was found Not Guilty, Right?
DeleteThere will be a civil suit, and Zimmerman will have to testify. His various versions of events will sink him. He lied and lied again, then told Hannity it was God's will.
DeleteGeorge Zimmerman -- handmaiden of The Almighty. Who knew?
Yes, Lynne, I totally agree. We haven't seen the end of this.
DeleteYou "think"? The facts, which I have stated below, do not support Zimmerman's story or his innocence.
DeleteI agree, it is FAR from over. Zimmerman took Travon's lifebut his is over, also. Believe that one. No more restful nights for this fat man. He will never be able to trust anyone again, and this is how it SHOULD be, after killing a kid.
DeleteThe only things that are over are Trayvon Martin's life and the trial. Racism, Stand your ground laws and gun control issues are alive and well and we need to keep on addressing them and working to improve society for all citizens.
Delete9:34, you are right. We need to move past this incident and work on preventing future incidents that hurt just as bad. I don't know the figures, but hundreds of 17 year olds are killed every day. We owe it to them to improve the laws and practices.
Delete@845. He might be the handmaiden of god. I mean, really, he must have SOMEONE or something looking out for him considering the fact that he allegedly got his head banged against concrete 20+ times and all he got was a scrape on the back of his head.
Delete"...And then he's responsible for making the fat White guy scared. "
ReplyDeleteSo true, its like you punched me in the gut.
Today,
all I can do is try
to keep good thoughts for the family of Trayvon,
but there is no relief for my heartache.
-V
Just remember, Z. Was NOT as fat then as he is now! He was a pretty lean, mean, wanna-be fit killing machine then. Now he has added about 100lbs for fear of his life. He will be adding another 100lbs before this is all over, because he will not be able to get out of his home for fear of his life. He WILL be stalked, day-in, day-out. I hope whoever stalks him, will play cat-and-mouse for a LOOOONG time with him, making him paranoid and cowering forever and ever.
DeleteI agree with you, Gryphen. Things got way out of hand when this wannabe cop didn't follow orders. He should have stayed in his truck and waited for the real cops. I don't think Trayvon ambushed him. Zimmerman was on a mission to get him. Many things don't make sense in this case. I am waiting to hear testimony from Zimmerman himself in a civil court. He won't be able to hide behind his hotshot, sarcastic attorneys. It makes me sad and angry that the jurors came to a not guilty decision.
ReplyDeleteWow, that was one narcissistic ramble for sure. Count the I's in your post. Is there anything you haven't done? I call BS on half your claims to fame. Stick to slamming Sarah Palin, you've gotten good at that. Zimmerman was found not guilty by a jury, that's how it works in our country.
ReplyDelete7:53 AM So now it is OUR Country? Aren't you one of those AIP types who want to take back our country? Did you feel the same way when OJ Simpson was acquitted? I think not. Stick to slamming Our President Obama, you've gotten good at that.
DeleteIs that what you told yourself and your friends after the O,J, decision>
DeletePeople who have done little or nothing with their lives are often jealous of those who have accomplished much.
DeleteStrike a nerve?
Just like O.J. Right? Karma has followed O.J. and it ruined his life. I wish the same for the fat man.
DeleteWhat works in "our country" is that a neighborhood watch guy can kill a person and get acquitted. All Zimmerman has to do is dodge every neighborhood watch wannabe and he can live to a ripe old age. I, for one, think the odds are against Zimmerman making it another 5 years, but the bullet proof vest might not bother him too much.
DeleteSome of you on here are as bad as the fools over at c4pee. Don't agree, just start name calling and bullying.
DeleteAnon@ 8:28 Yes our country. I've got to ask how you came up with I've gotten good at slamming the President. I support President Obama. Not everyone that gives an opposing view on here is a Palin fan.
Anon@ 9:03 As far as doing little or nothing with my life, I'm a retired vet, traveled, seen and done things that most people just dream.
Anon@ 9:23 I to believe Karma will make Zimmerman's life a living hell.
I will give Gryphen credit, he posted my post when he could have just tossed it. Shame some of his readers don't have as open mind.
@ 11:13AM
DeleteYou are a retired racist who probably celebrated the DEATH of a young black teenager. Don't blame other commenters for pointing that out, RACIST VET.
Hope karma finds you too.
I'm sad for your country because while it's often touted by its citizens as a place of freedom and greatness, it seems American exceptionalism also involves an extremely fearful citizenry who feel the need to carry a concealed firearm to conduct the most mundane of tasks, like going grocery shopping. A lot of Americans are scared of their own shadows, scared of people of other races or religions. Home of the brave? I think not.
ReplyDeleteThe greatness of America only lives on in the minds of the deranged.
DeleteThe World Healthcare Organization ranks our healthcare system 38th out of 191 countries; #1 in expenditures for health and 38th for quality of care.
Our education system ranks 17th in developed nations world wide.
Poverty is rampant, and unemployment remains high.
Exceptional? Hardly. We sit back fat, dumb and complacent while the rest of the world progresses.
Ah, yes, but any fool can buy a weapon, thanks to the NRA and the bought and paid for politicians.
DeleteGo to the pee pond and capture the comments-they are being really open about their racism today!
ReplyDeleteTom Ferriday palin45potus • 38 minutes ago −
I beg to differ. Obama and leftist politicians use blacks because they want to be used.
Many blacks eschew education, have bitter racial animosities, engage in reckless personal behavior, disdain law and order, and have a massive sense of entitlement. This has been the case for decades. The Left has used this to its advantage and blacks know this to be true. However, they don't seem to care, so why should I? No one is going to respect someone if he doesn't respect himself.
If you choose to believe rhetoric that you know in your heart isn't true, then you'll always be a victim.
I'd rather gouge out my eyes with my thumbs than go to that nauseatingly vile site.
DeleteThey are a palin worshipping cult,what else are they supposed to write?
They adore her because she embodies and gives voice to their insane hatred of our POTUS and everyone who isn't a white religious fundie.
They tout themselves as "christians"but are in fact, satan's minions.
You can't expect Sarah Palin's fans to make any comments about love peace, and harmony.
DeleteAfter all,they worship an evil poisonous viper.
I think mosts non white citizens knew how this trial would end. It happens time and time again.
ReplyDeleteWhite...and "I" knew. SIGH.
DeleteI'm a middle-aged white woman and, although I'm horrified that Zimmerman will not have to rot in prison, I am not surprised at the verdict, sadly enough.
DeleteI work with inner-city kids and I see way too much of the inequality that exists in our society.
This trial proves, once again, that the SCOTUS
decision regarding the Voting Rights Act was very premature. We are not close to being past racism in this country.
As a white person, I also pretty much knew how this would end, even though I hoped that GZ would be found guilty of manslaughter at a minimum. I feel so sad for TM's family. TM did not deserve to be killed for doing absolutely nothing wrong.
DeleteHowever, GZ was definitely wrong in his actions, starting with following TM after he was told to stay put and that the police would take care of it. This wannabe cop disobeyed and TM is now dead.
Shame on GZ and shame on this verdict.
Tom Ferriday aptly described Sarah Palin and her Family. Just read what he wrote, then think about how the Palins have been all along.
ReplyDelete+10000
DeleteJust take "blacks" out of his screed and put in Palins, or underclass whites, and you come up with the same equations.
Only, all the Palins would have to do is get some education, some manners, some sense of the world, and they could pass for a member of the majority.
Trayvon Martin and his family know that that could rarely happen, no matter how hard they tried.
The racism is as bold and deep and dangerous as it ever has been, reinforced by the Supreme Ct's voting rights decision. Blacks are second class -- hell, they aren't entitled to any class at all. They are the "other."
Just wait for a few more decades when whites will be a minority in almost every state, and all those gun-carrying laws start to work against the white minority.
There's no scenario on earth in which an armed, older man, in a vehicle, on a dark and rainy night, could pursue an unarmed teenager who's lost his way, and, having gotten a few scrapes, felt it essential to his own life to shoot the teenager through the heart. No possible scenario, other than sheer racism.
Hope the Martin family goes after him in a civil suit, where he'll have to testify, and they can collect whatever money he makes from a book deal, etc. If it already isn't protected so they can't reach him.
"Sambo beat the bitch." -- Sarah Palin 2008
Delete'Sambo' who has the Penis that Sarah Palin has been longing for since 2008. Give up, Sarah, like you gave up your job as INCOMPETENT GOVERNOR. Barack Obama has nothing for you. Try that Wimpy 2 incher that your Ex-Husband Todd has.
DeleteWow just wow! Even on huffpo it is open racism in many comments. We can thank florida for allowing the racist assholes to slither out from under their rocks and show their ugly faces in the light of day. They think they can be bigots and it is okay? Keep it up! See how long it takes for you to be spat upon and cast out of a still predominantly good and fair society.
ReplyDeleteThere is NO excuse for anyone to allow those assholes a voice on any site. Their evil is an abomination and insult to the Martin family.
About your update. I think Zimmerman was pretty consistent in his story, but almost everything he said about the fight was vague. From what I have seen of him, he was probably stunned by that first blow and didn't remember much except the banging and yelling for help. He thought he was hit "20 times." That was his very subjective impression. At some point he tried to fill in the blanks in his memory to explain this to himself. He may have tried some of the moves you suggested, and in the process got ahold of his gun. Practically all the parts of his explanation that were dubbed as "lies" were for that part where he tried to fill in.
ReplyDeleteRight but you still take that into account and believe Zimmermans account. If he was so fuzxy on details and just "filled in" the blanks how can you be sure it's the truth. Funny how all the "fill-ins" support his argument of self defense. It seems to me YOU like to "fill-in" the blanks so that you can justify your support of Zimmermans verified lies.
DeleteExcept that Zimmerman is a lying liar who lies. R lied to the court about his income -- when it was pretty easily verifiable. People who lie when there is a high chance of getting caught, IMO, usually lie about everything. Take thr arctic snookie. She famously lied about not supporting the bridge to nowhere once she got on mccains ticket...and we all know how much she lies...
DeleteIt's nice how you're making excuses for him. But the thing is that the forensics proved that things didn't happen the way he said they did. The wound was NOT NOT NOT from a close range and there was none of TM's DNA on the gun. There was not much blood on GZ's clothes and the injury he sustained to his head was laughably minor. Supposedly TM was beating the shit out of him, but TM didn't have any of GZ's blood on him. That's quite a magical fight! The person on top was supposedly doing mma style blows -- it was assumed to be TM...but GZ was the one who studied MMA. Isn't that weird? That they both knew MMA moves?
Also, he has a history of violence, with the assault arrests... He is a violent, lying liar and he wasn't having any luck taking the kid out, so he shot him.
The civil suit will be filed soon. Ask OJ how that worked out.
ReplyDeleteIf the little man didn't have a gun to make him feel big, none of this would have ever happen. He will always be the "man" that killed a kid armed with Skittles and iced tea.
Yeah, but remember, OJ was/is BLACK, and he had tons of $$$. Z. Is WHITE, and he claims to have no money, even though he has ammassed quite a few hundreds of thousands of $$$, which he is willing/able to hide. The book deal money will also be somehow hidden, so the Martins will NOT be able to get ANY satisfaction AT ALL.
DeleteDidn't his wife conveniently forget to report some assets that Georgie quickly had switched to her maiden name and got caught?
DeleteFor ME, it's always been 911 telling him to stay in his vehicle but he refused to.
ReplyDelete"Fucking niggers, these assholes always get away."
I hope he lives a MISERABLE rest of his days.
as Michael Strahan exclaimed " Plaxico Buriss shot himself in the leg, HIMSELF, and got two years "
ReplyDeleteWTF ?!?
He should have shot himself in Florida instead of New York.
Deletea year won't go by until the boys from the 'hood catchup with this worthless POS
ReplyDeleteexactly !
ReplyDeleteI didn't watch all of the trial for the same reason that you, Gryphen, chose not to write about until now. It was too emotional for me, coming from a racially diverse family. The few times that I did watch bits and pieces of the trial, I came away with the distinct impression that it was not George Zimmerman on trial, it was Trayvon Martin on trial. Trayvon was on trial for being black.
ReplyDeleteI'm not so naive to think that racism no longer exists in this country - the election of the first black President has certainly brought it to the forefront - but I did mistakenly believe that a seemingly reasonable jury of six, given the evidence presented at the trial, would be able to see that racial profiling was the genesis of the murder of Trayvon and they would deliberate from that core principle.
The verdict was shocking to me, but even sadder, is the mistaken belief that it was fair. On the contrary, the entire trial was terribly flawed from the onset.
I was appalled by the styro dummy the defense used to show the street fight. The foam dummy was BLACK!! How often do you find foam in a black color. It's usually a yellow. It's like the defense made a conscience decision to use a dark foam for Trayvon. It's disgusting the prejudice!!
DeleteI watched the entire trial and I was appalled with the judge allowing the foam dummy, the block of concrete, the way out of proportion cutouts of TM and GZ. Made TM look like a prize fighter and GZ the Pillsbury doughboy. Treyvon would have to be at least seven feet tall if O'Mara said he was 6ft 4 inches tall, and the treyvon cutout was about a foot taller.
DeleteWhat no one's mentioned was O Mara being allowed to use the animation of both TM and GZ standing, with TV punching him in the face. Really, Judge, Really???
Then there's the young lady Treyvon was speaking with on the phone. She's a Haitian immigrant, english is her second language, she's for all intents and purposes illiterate and a hostile earwitness. She was mocked, torn to shreds and harassed by GZ's lawyers because of her mannerisms and accent, but she told what she heard with veracity and should have been treated with respect. She heard a friend's life end and could do nothing to save him.
FACT - Zimmerman told several DIFFERENT stories about what happened.
ReplyDeleteFACT - Z said he pinned Martin's arm between his (Z) arm and side while he (Z) pulled his gun out his holster. Can't be done while lying on his back.
FACT - Zimmerman lied about the donations he had received.
FACT - Absolutely cannot shoot a trajectory through the heart that is 90degrees to the perpendicular plane of the body while someone is sitting on you. CAN'T BE DONE.
FACT - A body can't have the arms pinned under it if someone was sitting on top of the body while holding the arms out straight from the sides. DUH
You SHIT FOR BRAINS racist TROLL are beyond stupid. We are not.
What about the Afro American Woman in Florida who fired a warning shot in the AIR to scare her (I believe it was her ex-husband) who had severely beaten her on multiple occasions? They gave her 20 years? She still has 19 years to serve. What about Her right to stand your ground??What The Fuck is WRONG with this country???Iam Sickened to the core!
ReplyDeleteShe had 3 strikes against her. She's black and a woman and living in FL.
DeleteGrest comment!
ReplyDeleteA legal expert, commenting on MSNBC (Chris Hayes, Lawrence, or Rachel) several days ago, used the phrase 'RELUCTANT prosecution.'
ReplyDeleteWhat would have been the implications to Florida GOP and the NRA if Zimmerman had been convicted? Is there any situation where the DoJ can investigate to determine if the prosecution was intentionally inept?
I guess, if the Martins were WHITE and RICH, they could sue their lawyer for incompetence, because of all the &$));: he did.
DeleteAlas, they are NOT white, and NOT rich and I flue ciao, so... :(
From what I've read and heard about the case, the prosecution was either incompetent or not trying their hardest to get a guilty verdict.
DeleteMakes you wonder...
Anon 11:35
DeleteYep,my sentiments exactly!
Yeah, remember the cops didn't arrest him for weeks and weeks and turn only got involved when there were complaints? Yeh. And there was they story about how some of the cops involved in a controversial arrest right before this?
DeleteExactly, 5:16. It took like a week or two to even get an arrest, the original DA was taken off the case and Angela whatshername took over.
DeleteI found myself wondering today what if everything in this situation had been the same, EXCEPT for who died? Do you think Trayvon would have gotten off? I don't believe so for a minute. They would have charged that kid as an adult for murder, and he probably would have been convicted.
ReplyDeleteIf it had been the other way around, I could see him actually having a case, since he was the one being followed, he didn't have the gun, he didn't start anything. Zimmerman was the aggressor. How the hell can you claim self-defense when you willingly put your self in the situation in the first place?
I hope Zimmerman is looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life.
Me, too, 10:14 AM. Watch him do an OJ "If I Did It" type book and ANY media outlet that gives him an after voice in this should be shunned.
DeleteGryphen says: "Zimmerman was upset that this black kid was walking around, because it made Zimmerman feel fearful in some way. In response, and because he knew he was armed, he decided to follow Trayvon. "
ReplyDeleteHere fixed it for you:
"Zimmerman was upset that this black kid was walking around, because it made Zimmerman remember how tiny his penis is. In response, and because he knew he was armed, he decided to follow Trayvon and enjoy thinking his penis was big (as his gun)."
This attack on Trayvon had zip to do with Zimmerman's concern for safety and 100% to do with Zimmerman's pleasure in controlling (what he thought) was a defenseless person. It was all about trying to make Zimmerman feel like a man instead of a stupid, short, fat, worthless, ineffective, pathetic lump of nothing that no one would ever care about.
This is an interesting read:
ReplyDeletehttp://redyankeepress.blogspot.com/
Thanks for the link!
DeleteEveryone - This is a MUST READ! There's a lot of good stuff here.. connect the dots!
Exactly. Nailed it.
ReplyDeleteGreat verdict in Florida.
ReplyDeleteGeorge Zimmerman was clearly innocent.
Oh, here we go, troll 10:57 AM.
Delete911 told him to stay put but he chose not to. "Fucking niggers, tired of these assholes..." He PURSUED. There WAS no SYG.
As was OJ Simpson, right, 10:57?
Delete@ 10:57AM
DeleteMay you be stalked and gun down like the dog that you are. This is my prayer for you.
If Trayvon had been a white teenager and Zimmerman a black adult,you and the rest of right wing evil racists would be singing a different tune.
Deletebut,Karma's real, and that gives me solace.
Many questions. Why was Trayvon's right to stand his ground never mentioned? Didn't Trayvon have a right to defend himself? Why wasn't Trayvon's blood all over George Zimmerman if Trayvon was on top of him leaning over when he was shot? Why didn't the prosecutor address obvious flaws in Zimmerman's story, including that it changed over time? How did Trayvon sneak up on Zimmerman while he was talking to his friend on the phone? It sounds like she talked to him up until contact between Trayvon and Zimmerman. How on earth can Zimmerman claim this was God's will? Not to mention why it was OK to try this case on Hannity's show. Why weren't some of those testifying it was Zimmerman screaming for help allowed to say things like it sounds like a man screaming for his life, then assuming the man in question was Zimmerman and not Trayvon? Lots more questions, as noted by the rest of you.
ReplyDeleteI think the reasons this man was acquitted include an incompetent investigation by police that turned political almost immediately. The Mayor's office conducted parts of this investigation. Why? The prosecution did not seem to use some of the most obvious questions during the trial. Their closing argument did address some of those points but they'd never done anything during the trial to prove those closing arguments, thereby negating those arguments. Consequently the prosecution denied itself more ammunition. Consciously or not.
It is absolutely correct that if reasonable doubt can be established, you have to acquit. It appears that's what happened. That the jury asked for more explanations of the manslaughter charge says they were seriously looking for answers. Evidently did not find.
Florida is unapologetically racist regarding blacks. Very nasty, in fact. Whether that applies to this jury is an unknown.
mr. zimmerman may have been judged innocent by the jury but there are lots of people out there that don't share that view. his face will be recognized wherever he goes. i am thinking there will not be much peace in his future.
ReplyDeleteI agree but with one small quibble. Zimmerman was found "Not Guilty" but he's far from "Innocent".
DeleteI had to comment, but haven't read all the other comments, yet... There is no actual proof that Hitle was part Jewish! I have reaserched extensively. Beyond that... the jury was there. Heard all the evidence, and the prosecution couldn't make their case beyond reasonable doubt. It was unanimous. I know from personal experience, that during a fight, a lot can happen. I also don't see "these assholes always get away" as racial. I do see "nigger, nigga, and cracker as racial."
ReplyDeleteZimmerman is a Wannabe Cop and he Profiled TM. Zimmerman is a walking timebomb and 11:29, I hope that you don't walk through his neighborhood when he is on an Aderall binge. Your opinion of him would change quickly.
DeleteRead this article, and your eyes will pop...
Deletehttp://redyankeepress.blogspot.com/2012/05/zimmerman-gets-little-help-from-cracker.html
(Thanks Dragonfly2!)
Anonymous 12:08pm - Wow! Now I'm really angry. Thanks for the Red Yankee Press link. The post goes into recently released disclosures from the prosecutors office which includes potentially damaging information about the connections and between and intentions of Zimmerman, the Homeowners Assoc., the neighborhood watch program, the Sanford police, and rampant racism. The post also points out important lies in Zimmerman's testimony.
Deletethanks. some great links here to some well-researched docs and newspaper articles. it's beginning to make sense why the special prosecutor made some decisions she did and why the state's prosecution did such an awful job. they never held the story told by the local police up to a light, most less actually challenging the holes in Z's story and his relationships with the HOA via the SPD. Red Yankee does a big favor for the feds here. I would be surprised if the justice dept chooses not to pursue this case now, as they can and should. The state of FL purposely sandbagged. This one goes all the way up to Rick Scott. Check it out.
DeleteThanks Dragonfly 2
DeleteOne of the best blog posts I've read today!
Anyone who is foolish enough to think that race had no part in this incident or that racism is a thing of the past in this country needs look no farther than the explosive reaction to a Cheerios commercial featuring a bi-racial child and her parents.
ReplyDeleteExactly, it is painfully obvious that racism is alive and well in this country.
DeleteThe election of our POTUS brought it all out in the open.
What a sad dark day.
It appears that those on the far right are so very anxious for the widespread race riots they predicted to begin. Since the riots haven't happened, they have resorted to circulating video of riots purportedly in Miami to prove they were right all along and to stoke the fires.
ReplyDeleteOf course, more than just a cursory glance at the footage being spread on Twitter would show that the rioters are actually all white and that a big sign on the building behind the burning car reads "Canada Post" in English and French. It's not even footage from this country, no less Miami!
http://www.politicususa.com/2013/07/14/riot.html
The fake protest videos were picked up and reported on by the Canadian news. One station commented on the lack of journalist ethics after it was shown to be on tv as well.
DeleteVERY interesting read... I hope, the Martins' lawyers will see it and use it I their civil lawsuit...
ReplyDeleteWhere are all the riots the racists predicted and secretly hoped for? I guess they'll have to wait for another excuse to shoot black people.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Zimmerman is guilty. There was no reason for him to kill that boy. What scares me and should everyone else this is not going to stop with this poor boy being killed. Every prick that doesn't like teenagers or has a beef with them, can claim they were acting strange. Your child/ grandchild might not make it back home. Just think you will never again let the kids go for a walk, or go to the store.
ReplyDeleteExactly it may not be a black teenager next time. Instead of "Hey you kids get off my lawn" it will be shoot first and tell the cops your standing your ground.
DeleteI haven't read the comments yet as my tears flow and I'm so heartsick, I think of my own 14 year old son who wears a hoodie. He's white so he probably doesn't have to worry about getting shot... So sad. Trayvon's life will not be in vain. This will make a difference and maybe as was mentioned on the Sunday news, there may well be federal charges against him for a hate crime. Please, please let there be federal charges brought against this racist asshole.
ReplyDeleteI can't believe Robert Z. Jr., is going on CNN and talking about a "false narrative" by media about his family being racist. His concern about the perception of public opinion is overkill, in that he's suddenly becoming a celebrity. It's horrid. And the crazy about it is that he's creating a perception about Trayvon being a thug.
ReplyDeleteThis guy is in everyone's face now, after all the heavy hearts? These people really are creepy.
His father's book sounds like it comes straight from Stormfront. One friend posted Zimmerman is going to feel like a black man now hated by people he doesn't know, always looking over his shoulder, stared at when he walks into a store.
DeleteReading some of these comments makes me sick to my stomach, fucking racists have absolutely no reason to live.
ReplyDeleteBeyond that, taking race out of the equation, an armed man killed an unarmed child, I hope he rots in the hell that he has created.
Gryphen, your blogpost is spot on on all points. I followed this from the very beginning, when I saw the announcement that a verdict had been reached and it was after ten p.m., my heart sank. I was expecting manslaughter at least, but "not guilty" were two words that shocked the hell out of me.
ReplyDeleteWhat did it for me was the judge allowing the simulation of a standing fist fight with Treyvon striking Zimmerman in the head first not as evidence, but as a "demonstrative aid".
The cutouts used were not to scale. Zimmerman looked like the pillsbury dough boy, and Treyvon looked huge, muscular and angular. O'Mara said he was 6'4, and the Treyvon cutout was at least a foot taller than him.
Today, they said on MSNBC that four of the six women were pro-gun, pro-second amendment rights, so Zimmerman DID get a jury of his peers.
remember Zimmerman is the son of a retired judge and has an arrest record.
ReplyDeletehttp://rollingout.com/culture/george-zimmerman-son-of-a-retired-judge-has-3-closed-arrests/