| "Go ahead. Say you don't believe in me...one...more..time." |
An Oakland man has been found guilty of first-degree murder for shooting and killing his friend during an alcohol and cocaine-fueled argument over the existence of God.
33-year-old Douglas Yim was also found guilty Tuesday of assault with a firearm and mayhem for shooting a second friend in his living room two years ago.
Yim killed 25-year-old Dzuy Duhn Phan after a night of partying and playing video games. Another friend, Paul Park, testified the two men had engaged in a heated discussion about God.
Yim became enraged and grabbed his gun after Phan asked Yim where God was when Yim’s father died of a stroke several years earlier.
Yim shot Phan at least six times. Park was also hit by a bullet.
Okay that remark about his father was certainly ill conceived, bu still SIX times?
You know the thing is that when somebody clings so desperately to a belief, and you challenge it, things can get very, very ugly.
I still find it interesting that the person who believes in God, and therefore believes that they will be judged, felt justified in taking a gun and murdering his friend.
I guess the only thing that stops a bad atheist with an opinion, is a good Christian with a gun.
So much for the idea of religion having a positive effect on morality.
Though non-Christian, Phan turned out to be a holey man.
ReplyDeleteCome on, Gryph. Don't over generalize because of the worst case scenario of behavior within a group just because you disagree with their religious *beliefs*. Had he been an atheist and his friend were trying to convince him of a deity existing, and that 'God had killed his father by giving him a stroke', the guy might have become just as enraged and killed him just as well.
ReplyDeleteAssigning any part of the blame to his *beliefs* clouds the material fact that antagonizing a gun-wielding, mentally ill person who is drunk and coked up about a very emotionally-sensitive subject, can result in a psychotic break, resulting in a tragedy.
Lots of people are shot and killed over parking spaces, dice games, lovers gone astray, drug deals gone bad, etc.; seldom are any of these needless killings ascribed to any particular belief system the killers might possess.
This appears to be more a cautionary tale about the dangers of combining access to firearms with alcohol and drugs by a person who is mentally ill, depressed about the loss of a loved one, and then placed under severe stress by another person.
Whatever delusions the shooter had about the origins of life were secondary to any of the above-mentioned factors which influenced his actions in that situation. I know that you like to poke fun at religion and religious people, especially those who fail to observe the tenets of their belief system, but this is just unnecessary. Granted, the topic of their last discussion was ironic, but unrelated to the outcome.
To argue otherwise is to say that correlation proves causation, a logical fallacy where two events happening together are deemed to have a cause-and-effect relationship. (Incidentally, since I've had to learn it in past studies, this fallacy is known as cum hoc ergo propter hoc. Yeah, I know, blah blah blah). I'm sorry to criticize your post, but you've proven many times that you're smarter than the logic of your argument reveals here, Gryphen.
This was certainly a sad outcome, but more likely resulting from mental illness combined with alcohol, drugs and a stressful situation than a belief in a supreme deity, wouldn't you agree?
I am in my sixites, and I have to meet an atheist or agnostic who would kill someone if that person tried to force their beliefs on them in a discussion or argument They might feel like doing it, but would more likely err on the side of reason because reason is what guides them, not irrational faith that can be threatened with a question or challenge. Just saying
DeleteYes, drugs and alcohol and low IQs all probably played a part in this trragedy, but when you've seen believers slap, throw rocks out, or cast children out of a home because of the believer's faith, it is quite feasible to consider that because the question asked touched upon a basic tenet of the shooter's so-called faith, he just exploded. People who have not based their faith on reasonable foundations or who have clung to religious beliefs out of fear or identity will usually react emotionally, not rationally. Given that the drugs or alochol may have loosened the shooter's tenuous grasp on reality and made him susceptible to his repressed anger at his father dying or his fears, then his faith, when challenged, proved so weak that his anger or fear dictated the shooting response
DeleteSo, I guess this means that all the ridiculous radical right claims about Muslims and are false as well.
DeleteWas it Freud or Marx who cautioned that one of the problems with religion is that it encouraged the willful suspension of critical thinking skills, which could then permeate, to other areas of one's life, not just the religious aspects.
DeleteYim seems to already have mental problem which drugs AND RELIGION exacerbated.
Religion adhered to but kept compartmentalized by the sane is detrimental. Religion (or other violent, self-righteous narratives and mental illness is tragic. (See Palin, Laufner, Tucson for an example of the latter.)
and it is "post hoc ergo propter hoc"
Deletepost = after
cum = with
While the use of cum isn't strictly incorrect, the use of post is so much more prevalent that the shorthand form of the fallacy is "post hoc."
This happened during an "alcohol and cocaine-fueled" argument? OK, G., now just because someone says they believe in God doesn't mean they follow him. Of course the shootee's god of the moment was a cocaine habit and alcohol, and add on anger and dominance issues. A peace-loving God-loving person ain't going to indulge in the above recipe, with loaded guns........ don't throw in the whole load into one barrel.
ReplyDeleteCorrection: Meant "shooter", not "shootee".
DeleteBLAH, BLAH, BLAH. The point Gryphen makes is that it wouldn't have happened if there had not been a gun.
DeleteYour intended message came through despite the original typo. Good comment.
DeleteIn that case, I give you that the religious population is actually about 5% of the country. Following your "logic," there.
DeleteCrook Learns The Hard Way Not To Pull A Gun On 30-Year Army Vet
ReplyDeleteBad idea: holding up a store clerk who happens to be proficient in firearms.
Worse idea: holding up a store clerk who is not only proficient in firearms, but who also happens to be an Iraq war veteran and a former prison guard and private investigator.
Jon Lewis Alexander, 54, is no ordinary store clerk. He has worked several “high risk” jobs and served four tours of duty in Iraq during his 30 years in the U.S. military.
http://www.businessinsider.com/jon-lewis-alexander-clerk-army-gun-2013-9
The nerve of the Koch Bros who constantly use our Dixie Cup and Quilted Northern purchases to finance their intrusion with our Doctors if we even get that far (they like to shut down clinics)
ReplyDeletehttp://blogs.rollcall.com/moneyline/americans-for-prosperity-buying-tv-ads-targeting-women-35/?pos=epm