Speaking at daily Mass last Thursday, Pope Francis warned Christians against turning their faith into a rigid ideology.
“The faith passes, so to speak, through a distiller and becomes ideology,” he said, according to Radio Vatican. “And ideology does not beckon [people]. In ideologies there is not Jesus: in his tenderness, his love, his meekness. And ideologies are rigid, always. Of every sign: rigid.
“And when a Christian becomes a disciple of the ideology, he has lost the faith: he is no longer a disciple of Jesus, he is a disciple of this attitude of thought… For this reason Jesus said to them: ‘You have taken away the key of knowledge.’ The knowledge of Jesus is transformed into an ideological and also moralistic knowledge, because these close the door with many requirements.”
“The faith becomes ideology and ideology frightens, ideology chases away the people, distances, distances the people and distances of the Church of the people,” Francis added. “But it is a serious illness, this of ideological Christians. It is an illness, but it is not new, eh?”
He said Christian ideology was the result of a lack of true prayer.
I think that old joke, "Does the Pope shit in the woods," is now completely outdated.
The new joke should be, "Does the Pope shit all over his own religion?"
Look I am NEVER going to be able to trust this guy completely, I mean after all he's a Catholic, but if this guy keeps this up I may have to start cutting him some slack.
That is if he lives that long. I HAVE to imagine that the Cardinals and Bishops are having little meetings that center around just how long the life expectancy of a Pope should be allowed to extend.
I mean the guy is trying to make Christianity reflect the values of Jesus Christ! What is he thinking?
Personally I think they should pray for lightning to strike him. I mean if they have faith, and they consistently claim that they do, then they should leave it up to God to decide whether he keeps his job or not.
Until then, he IS supposed to be considered God's representative on earth. So suck it Catholics!
He is a Jesuit and that's a different kind of Catholic.
ReplyDeleteGood for you, Francis.
I once asked a Jesuit priest if he believed in the efficacy of prayer. He was drinking coffee at the time and snorted, laughed so hard, he spewed coffee all over me. Yes, they are another breed of Catholic, but, still suspect in my mind. Grow up; there is no big daddy in the sky to tell you what to do, make you safe, send you to hell, etc. etc.
DeleteI'll change my tune about Catholics when they stop buggering kids and punish the priests who do.
Yep. In the '70's I hung out with a group of RCC musicians known as the St Louis Jesuits. Party on!!!!
DeleteThere are a number of conspiracy theories surrounding the death of John Paul I, who was only pope for 33 days. Many in Italy believe that he was murdered. So it's not outside the realm of paranoid possibility that Francis might meet an untimely end.
ReplyDeletebls
Be sure to read WC's excellent post today "Christian ≠ Conservative":
ReplyDeletehttp://wickershamsconscience.wordpress.com/2013/10/22/christian-%E2%89%A0-conservative/
Just another brainwashed cult. Who cares what the pope thinks? Rather than listen to this guy people need to find their own minds and engage in their own lives and stop believing any of this stuff. Kind of like the Brits in your earlier post today. All of it is bad and leads people astray from the beauty of simply being a human, on planet Earth. That in itself is amazing enough.
ReplyDeleteHear, hear!!
DeleteI, too, am surprised and pleased at Pope Francis's comments regarding how the people in the Catholic Church should live their lives following the example of Christ. He lives simply.
ReplyDeleteI agree the Jesuits are a different kind of Catholic but they also were pretty awful in some of their missions to convert the "heathen" in whichever country they were in at the time.
But Francis is definitely a huge breath of fresh air in the Vatican!
Right now, the college of cardinals are flagellating themselves over this terrible turn of events.
ReplyDeleteMore Catholics are liberal than not, and the majority also support gay marriage, contraception, and the the right to choose.
ReplyDeletePope Francis does not support ANY of those things. He may sound progressive on the surface -- but underneath he's an ideologue himself.
The term you are looking for is cafeteria catholic, particularly in the US. 98% of RCc women of childbearing age use BC. No more RCC families of 6+ except fringe loons like Santorum.
DeleteWhat does suck it up Catholics mean? You wouldn't say that to the Muslims.
ReplyDeleteSure I would And I have.
DeleteHowever I did notice that my statements were a little harsher than they sounded in my head.
My point was that if a certain religious group truly wants to believe that the leader of their church is God's representative on earth it essentially makes it impossible for them to take issue when he starts speaking out about church doctrine.
In the interests of being fair to you, I would like to know the circumstances in which you said "suck it up Muslims." What was it they had to suck up?
DeleteAs your basic Catholic rebel Lutheran, Irishgirl, Pope Francis has made more sense in the true compassion and will for us that Christ taught than any pope in my 50+ years on the planet.
DeleteOnly on the surface, 4:29. Francis would still insist that a frail 11-year-old impregnated by a rapist must risk her own life to give birth to her rapist's child rather than have an abortion. He would still forbid a gay couple in a loving relationship from getting married, and still prohibit them from physically demonstrating their love for each other. He would still forbid a married couple who don't want any more children from using birth control. He would still prohibit women from becoming priests in his church, and forbid male priests from marrying. He has not changed and will not change Catholic church doctrine in the slightest. He simply knows how to sound reasonable. It's just a veneer, under which women and gays are still being kept down. It's sad that he's being so successful with it. I consider Francis even more dangerous than Benedict, because Benedict didn't sugarcoat his misogyny and homophobia.
DeleteAnon @ 4:29 - I guess that is what I was trying to say also - Pope Francis is the only pope I've heard in my lifetime who preaches compassion and love and reflects the simplicity that Christ lived. Still not saying it correctly, but I am impressed.
Delete4:56, are you impressed by Francis's continuing prohibition against abortion for girls and women who will die without them?
Deletewell ailsa, I woud say suck it up to a Muslin if an imam/mullah, said something like - violence is NOT the muslim way. Education, while not egalitarian in the Prohpet's time is appropriate now. Or declared a fatwh against any who used violence to prevent the education of women. then it would indeed be suck it up, muslims.
Delete4:47 I love you!!!!!
DeleteI am a fallen-away Catholic and I really like this guy!!! They better not bump him off!!! Think he is the perfect guy for the times we are living in!!!
ReplyDeleteOnly if you're a non-sexually active person, or in a straight married relationship where you either don't mind limiting sex, or not limiting the size of your family.
DeleteDirected to: 4:49 PM
DeleteI'm 3:48 PM and you hit me straight on. I'm a senior, dislike sex, haven't had it in years (haven't missed it either and am living a healthy, happy, stress free life!).
The lack of sex doesn't lead to health problems as many suggest! There are so many wonderful things in our world to experience and enjoy and masturbation isn't included should someone jump on that!
I was married for years, have been divorced for eons (and never wanted to remarry) - am financially capable - had one child that grew into an outstanding adult - and love my life as I've set it up to be for these many years!
You do not have to be religious to live a wonderful life!
Well, good for you, 5:14 -- I mean that sincerely -- you are one of the lucky ones who is asexual. But unlike you, many people do have strong sex drives, and if they happen to be married to each other, they are naturally going to express their sexual desires with each other. This Pope, just like his predecessors, is totally opposed to them using contraceptives first. If they are Catholics, they are committing a sin by doing so.
DeleteIf they obey the church and don't use contraceptives, and the wife gets pregnant, and the pregnancy is ectopic and will kill her unless the fetus is removed -- this Pope, Francis, says, "Tough shit. Die. Fetus first. Mothers last." Of course he couches it in more flowery and poetic language, but that is what he really means.
Like you, although I am married, I'm a senior who no longer has and doesn't miss having sex. I am also a very lapsed Catholic, but I'm still very sensitive to the injustices it has foisted upon the world. And I'm still very astonished that anyone is fooled by Pope Francis. Just because he doesn't project the image of a mean, angry, fussy old lady like Pope Benedict did doesn't mean he is ANY less evil. Francis is pushing the exact same injustices that Benedict pushed.
4:49
the term is recovering, @ 3:48. Like alcoholism it's a lifetime task. do not succumb too quickly to Francs seeming reasonableness. I continue with my self-excommunicaiton efforts
Delete"Look I am NEVER going to be able to trust this guy completely, I mean after all he's a Catholic"
ReplyDeleteIf someone on the "other side" said: "Look I am NEVER going to be able to trust this guy completely, I mean after all he's a Muslim", you'd be raising unholy hell. Shame on you.
Muslims don't really have the equivalent of a Pope, who is not only a religious leader but the head of his own fucking state.
DeleteWith respect, I think you are missing the point of my post.
DeleteWhat Jesse says is that he cannot completely trust the Pope why? Because he is Catholic. Thus, he impugns all Catholics as inherently untrustworthy.
Negatively stereotyping all members of a group is a necessary, if not sufficient, feature of prejudice.
If Catholics practice the religion as Popes, including Francis, insist that they practice if, you have to take the bad with the good. The official position of the Catholic Church, for example, is that contraception is a sin and that women must crank out as many children as their husbands impregnate them with. Another official position of the Catholic church is that a woman whose pregnancy will kill her is still not allowed to have an abortion. That is one church I as a woman certainly don't trust my welfare with!
DeleteNO, you're missing the point.. The RCC is not hte hierarchy. the pope is the hierarchy, no matter how populist he sounds.
DeleteYou might want to revisit the meaning of hierarchy.
DeleteThat is analogous to saying...go fuck yourselves if you are a Muslim. I thought better of you.
ReplyDeleteAs an atheist this really makes me want to respect this Pope as being a realist. It kind of reminds me of when I was doing tornado relief work through Franklin Graham's Samaritans Purse. Out on different assignments I would often get asked where I attended church, to which I replied, "I really don't attend church, but I believe in the the teachings of Jesus to always do good and to teach by example." That brought about some pained reactions .. I never said I was was an atheist, but it really put these people on the spot to see non-believer doing good...
ReplyDeleteThe pope is only a realist when it comes to hypotheticals. When it comes to the suffering of real people, such as women being pregnant who don't want to be, or gays who want to be married in the church, he gives them the finger.
DeleteI read your statement as "The pope is only a realist when it comes to hypocriticals." Not a word I know, but still as accurate as yours.
DeleteOver the years, I've learned to judge religions by 1) how they treat women and 2) how they treat gays.it really does tell you everything you need to know.
This pope is acting like Ted Bundy - everything attractive to cover the evil at the base of his chosen church. interesting to watch people swallow his hypocritical sweet-talking pap. Women beware!. Like the pimp who entices the young and innocent and new in town, a little sweet talk may find you entrapped in a demeaning way of life.
Harsh? Oh yeah. And realistic.
Somewhat OT, but seriously!!!!
ReplyDeletehttp://admin.alternet.org/speakeasy/brucewilson/ted-cruzs-father-suggested-his-son-anointed-bring-about-end-time-transfer?akid=11064.302809.Iv3NCU&rd=1&src=newsletter913088&t=15
M from MD
I haven't seen any area yet where things don't change in baby steps...gay, black, women, non traditional trades, transgender. It's just another step forward. A lesbian friend of mine, while we were discussing my transgendered son, commented that she felt so mainstream. I look at the young women who are working on the ships where life was hell for those of us who were pushing the envelope twenty-five years ago. They are amazed at what it was like "back then". Again, one step at a time. Glass half empty. Glass half full. Look at it any way you want.
ReplyDeleteYou really don't get it. The Catholic Church doesn't change its core beliefs.
DeleteI remained a member of the RC church despite chosing to practice birth control as it appeared parishoners also did given few of us had 4 plus children. Natural birth control was permitted. Honestly, I was naive about legal rights and plights of gay people. Due to personal differences, some on abortion I chose or accepted to not receive communion because I was not 100% in agreement with those doctrines including under no circumstances abortion.
DeleteI agree with Lynne that change is slow. I have witnessed change but I don't expect the RCC to confess members use birth control nor condone it any time soon.
Francis is a good man. I wish him long life.
ReplyDelete"That is, if he lives that long"
ReplyDeleteRemember, John-Paul I wanted to reform the Church, bring it into the twentieth century, so to speak.
They murdered him, and covered it up.
Long life to you, Papa....
The B.
All these people wishing Francis a long life... how do you feel about the very short life he'd allow the woman who needs but his church forbids to have a life-saving abortion?
ReplyDeleteYou do know Francis insists these women still must die EVEN WHEN THEIR FETUS HAS NO CHANCE OF SURVIVAL, don't you?