Thursday, October 10, 2013

Was the entire mythology surrounding Jesus Christ created by first century Roman aristocrats to control the Jews? Apparently there is new evidence to support just that.

Courtesy of PR Web:  

American Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill will be appearing before the British public for the first time in London on the 19th of October to present a controversial new discovery: ancient confessions recently uncovered now prove, according to Atwill, that the New Testament was written by first-century Roman aristocrats and that they fabricated the entire story of Jesus Christ. His presentation will be part of a one-day symposium entitled "Covert Messiah" at Conway Hall in Holborn. 

Although to many scholars his theory seems outlandish, and is sure to upset some believers, Atwill regards his evidence as conclusive and is confident its acceptance is only a matter of time. "I present my work with some ambivalence, as I do not want to directly cause Christians any harm," he acknowledges, "but this is important for our culture. Alert citizens need to know the truth about our past so we can understand how and why governments create false histories and false gods. They often do it to obtain a social order that is against the best interests of the common people." 

Atwill asserts that Christianity did not really begin as a religion, but a sophisticated government project, a kind of propaganda exercise used to pacify the subjects of the Roman Empire. "Jewish sects in Palestine at the time, who were waiting for a prophesied warrior Messiah, were a constant source of violent insurrection during the first century," he explains. "When the Romans had exhausted conventional means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare. They surmised that the way to stop the spread of zealous Jewish missionary activity was to create a competing belief system. That's when the 'peaceful' Messiah story was invented. Instead of inspiring warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged Jews to 'give onto Caesar' and pay their taxes to Rome." 

Was Jesus based on a real person from history? "The short answer is no," Atwill insists, "in fact he may be the only fictional character in literature whose entire life story can be traced to other sources. Once those sources are all laid bare, there's simply nothing left." 

Atwill's most intriguing discovery came to him while he was studying "Wars of the Jews" by Josephus [the only surviving first-person historical account of first-century Judea] alongside the New Testament. "I started to notice a sequence of parallels between the two texts," he recounts. "Although it's been recognised by Christian scholars for centuries that the prophesies of Jesus appear to be fulfilled by what Josephus wrote about in the First Jewish-Roman war, I was seeing dozens more. What seems to have eluded many scholars is that the sequence of events and locations of Jesus ministry are more or less the same as the sequence of events and locations of the military campaign of [Emperor] Titus Flavius as described by Josephus. This is clear evidence of a deliberately constructed pattern. The biography of Jesus is actually constructed, tip to stern, on prior stories, but especially on the biography of a Roman Caesar." 

How could this go unnoticed in the most scrutinised books of all time? "Many of the parallels are conceptual or poetic, so they aren't all immediately obvious. After all, the authors did not want the average believer to see what they were doing, but they did want the alert reader to see it. An educated Roman in the ruling class would probably have recognised the literary game being played." Atwill maintains he can demonstrate that "the Roman Caesars left us a kind of puzzle literature that was meant to be solved by future generations, and the solution to that puzzle is 'We invented Jesus Christ, and we're proud of it.'"

Now I should first probably admit that I am a firm believer that the story of Jesus is a completely fabricated mythology based on either nothing at all, or a handful of actual events that were exaggerated beyond recognition.

However having said that I am taking this with a great big grain of salt.

The idea that this has remained undiscovered for all of these centuries seems difficult to believe, however I reserve any final decision on its probability until I after I have heard the evidence and read what experts thought of it.

This remains one of my favorite topics, and I do love a mystery, so let's see where this takes us shall we?  Until then I will keep my mind open.

However I cannot speak for every one.


52 comments:

  1. Sally in MI4:25 AM

    War on Christmas? Now Sarah can wage a war on this scholar. I was always a believer, but seeing the way this story has been twisted and convoluted by the GOP for their politica ends makes me lean toward this man and his findings. I bet the Pope is going to have something to say on this. Not to mention the shills like Robertson, Osteen, Graham, and the rest of the milllionaires with 'servant's hearts.' Wouldn't it be woderful if we could just treat everyone as people, worthy of respect and care, and not get into these battles over belief?

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    1. Anonymous7:58 AM

      The Pope is still busy protecting child molesters, he just flew a Bishop out of the Dominican Republic to save him from being prosecuted by the law.
      As for Christmas, it was NEVER a "christian" holiday until it was stolen from the pagans.

      Delete
  2. It does seem that many traits given Jesus were first given to Augustus Caesar, and it was more of a cult of personality than a religion. I think it was Constantine who transferred those traits to a simple carpenter from Nazareth, and massaged it into an actual religion; Roman Catholics? It certainly benefited the Roman emperors. “Turn the other cheek,” “give unto Caesar,” etc. I look forward to an in-depth study.

    Given all that, the values are good ones, and praying in the name of Jesus is still praying. I feel good afterward and plan to continue. I just don't give money.

    The Amazing Randi nailed it. Those people exist in every age. “Tell us what to do Sarah?!!” Disgusting.

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    1. Anonymous6:36 AM

      there is a whole theory out there, that the legend Jesus Christ was created by the family of Julius Caesar. They even have the same initials.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Carotta

      His theory is ignored....but it rings true.

      Delete
    2. Maple6:52 AM

      "The Pagan Christ" by Tom Harpur (author, professor and Anglican priest) details the Christ story as being primarily based on an ancient Egyptian story -- right down to the virgin birth. The parallels are too many to be ignored.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous9:46 AM

      Thank you, Maple @6:52. It was fun to have my mind blown! I am not a christian, but I've always been interested in the history of the bible. Here's a link for anyone who is interested:

      http://rishyrich.hubpages.com/hub/Parallels-between-Jesus-Horus

      Delete
  3. Anonymous4:46 AM

    Yes, I agree that it is strange that this is just coming to light. But I also can imagine everyone trying to bring it up being burned at the stake.

    But it makes more sense that the story was fiction, the first clue being all of the supernatural activity.

    People are going to believe what they want. Look at the scientologists. They worship a piece of fiction too.

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    1. Anonymous9:26 AM

      I don't think it's too strange-- even if Jesus were made up, after so long people start believing their own lies. And generation after generation of indoctrination would increase that belief and people forget where it all started; maybe those in charge suddenly realized, "Hey, even though there are inconsistencies, i'm not going to think about those and I'm not going to allow my flock to think about them either because we got dem d0lla d0lla bills coming in" (at the time, more likely coin, but you get the idea.)
      We have so many different denominations of Christianity because people seeing those inconsistencies tried to "right" them instead of understanding the whole religion was a farce.

      Delete
  4. Anonymous4:49 AM

    But there are noted scholars that speak to the man Jesus, a man I find to be appealing and a good role model who was co-opted by social experimenters to be sure - but he didn't exist? That shakes me even though I am no longer a Catholic.

    I love the man, never believed he was my savior, but I loved the idea of him and ostensibly the love and pacifism he offered. But let's face it, his most vocal American followers are the worst, and do nothing to honor their saviors sacrifice.

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  5. Anonymous4:50 AM

    Hmmm rilly? What will noted Biblical scholar Sarah Palin ghostwrite and Tweet about all this? This wrecks her plans on keeping Christ in Christmas if Jesus didn't even exist.

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  6. Anonymous4:54 AM

    My mother taught me to believe the story of Jesus Christ. But I grew up to realize this was a mythtake.

    My father wanted me to believe in Zeus and Hera but then I discovered the Trojans were just mythunderstood.

    I could go on but I don't want to mythlead you :)

    -Oz
    (this is what happens when I am thleep-derprived LOL)

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  7. Sharon5:02 AM

    If you look at history....how the church basically ruled everything, it is not hard to connect the dots. Bill Mahr had a great show talking about how many of the rituals in the Catholic service were invented by who and when. Fear and more fear keeps the true believers (sheep) in line while sending in the money. Just look at Vatican City today...the church is worth millions and still enjoys admiration around the world. In the real world, the real "Christians" in our government are the most greedy, selfish and heartless. Yeah religion is working for them.

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    1. Anonymous5:59 AM

      Worth millions? Try Billions. And they still would rather bankrupt their diocese in the States than pay out to the victims of their pedophile shunting policies.

      Delete
    2. Maple6:57 AM

      If you travel through the Quebec countryside, you will soon note that the first thing you see is the spire of the town's Catholic church, because it's built on the highest part of the town. Why? So that the priest can get a clear view of his "flock" in order to see who is sinning and who is not. It should definitely be called the fear factor. Fortunately, the Catholic church is slowly losing much of its control over the people and their government.

      Delete
  8. Boscoe5:39 AM

    Actually, there are a number of scholars involved in this research and there already exists a book and a documentary called "Caesar's Messiah" that goes into detail about it all.

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  9. Balzafiar5:43 AM

    Interesting story, and it is one I can subscribe to. I have long felt that organized religion is there for the masses who have a need for the guidance (control) such a belief system offers -- however right or wrong it may be.

    I have never felt the need to be told what to do with my life and how to treat others. I have a strong moral code and just do what I feel is the right thing to do. I learned that code from my Mother.

    Anyone who preaches at me, quoting the Bible, may as well be talking to the wind -- I am not going to pay them much attention.

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    1. Anonymous7:21 AM

      You have to ask yourself where your mother got her values. There are two thousand years that we immediately know of where there was rampant religiosity alternating with brutal treatment of one's fellow man.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous7:54 AM

      Well,, I don't know where Balzafiar's Mom got her values, but my Mom got her values through our Native American religion. And our religion, if anyone would bohter to study a true "American" religions all seem to center on taking care of the earth we live on. which kind of makes sense, otherwise it would be like living in a house and never cleaning or doing repairs. But sorry to inform you, your Middle Eastern Religion, named Christianity did not create and still does not create values for most of the world.

      Little Rabbit

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    3. Balzafiar8:14 AM

      @7:21

      She got them from being raised with thirteen sisters and two brothers. Their parents were simple farmers, hard-working and poor as church mice. Both were gone before I attained an age to know or remember them, but since they were of Scotch/Irish ancestry I think they must have had some pretty strict values.

      That being said, having a large family, or even a small one for that matter, does not ensure model citizens, then or now. My extended family has examples to prove that, too. In my mind it is all a proof of the concept of individual destiny.

      Delete
  10. Anonymous5:48 AM

    James Randi is not amazing, he's a world-famous skeptic and a very disagreeable old man. Somewhere there is footage of a Jewish TV host dispatching him from the set and he wasn't even talking about religion.

    I cannot but believe that Jesus really existed given his values are still held today by the good folk at IM.

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    1. Anonymous7:19 AM

      For thousands of years Greeks held the values of the gods and goddesses of Mt. Olympus. Does that mean they existed?

      Like your description of James Randi though. He is a disagreeable old man, to say the least. Not disagreeable in a good way, either.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous8:59 AM

      James Randi is not amazing, he's a world-famous skeptic and a very disagreeable old man.

      Nobody in these comments has claimed that Randi is small-a amazing. When Darlene referred to him as "The Amazing Randi" she was simply using his stage name.

      It's the job of a skeptic to investigate extraordinary claims and disagree with those that turn out to be mistaken. In the case of claims that turn out to be outright bullshit, it's hardly surprising when a claimant perceives disagreement—no matter how civilly expressed—to be disagreeable.

      Admittedly it's been four years since I was last chatting with him in a social setting, and we were talking mainly about Miami Airport baggage handlers rather than paranormal claims, but I found him quite agreeable, both then and on previous occasions. Of course, it's possible that he's gone downhill since; have you had more recent personal contact with him?

      I won't disagree with the "old man" part—he's even older than I am.

      Delete
  11. Anonymous6:07 AM

    Apollonius of Tyana -

    Diabolical Mimicry aka pre-mimicry

    More nails for the coffin.

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  12. Anonymous6:11 AM

    Maybe THIS is the REAL 3rd secret of Fatima. Wouldn't that be interesting. Many, many people don't believe the actual text was released in 2000--with good reason since the future pope Ratzi was involved. There are other prophecies that depict the utter destruction of the Catholic church. Having to 'fess up that this was all a fairy story would certainly do it.

    Not to mention that the primary source of doctrine in the New Testament is Paul, who was a ROMAN CITIZEN and definitely threw his weight around.

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  13. Anonymous6:31 AM

    I've studied history and religion my entire life. There has always been the factor that most organized religions were created to control the masses (the poor).

    It's been suggested that the Council of Nicea actually changed the trinity - from a holy FAMILY, consisting of the Father, the Mother and the Child, the center of life and a purpose of being. INTO the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.....as in, MAGIC will put the fear into the uneducated.

    All of Christianity was taken from a multitude of other religions, but mostly it was created to coincide with Pagan holidays and celebrations.

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  14. Anonymous7:00 AM

    Sounds like what the Revisionist Dominionists Evangelical Christians are trying to do today in our country.... rewrite history to control the masses.

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  15. Anonymous7:10 AM

    No. He's real, but I can't prove it to you. If you need real proof, try Him.

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    1. Anonymous7:49 AM

      That's right, you can't prove it. And no, I don't intend to try him, there is no need. But, if you think people are going to believe in an imaginary faerie I can just about guarentee most would pick Santa.

      Delete
  16. Anonymous7:17 AM

    Well, that would explain why there is precisely ZERO historical evidence for the construct now known as Jesus Christ.

    BTW, James Randi is every bit as intellectually locked-down in his limited thinking as the most intransigent fundy.

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  17. Randall7:20 AM

    Gryph, read "The Evolution of God" by Robert Wright.
    That book goes into extreme detail of how not only Christianity, but other religions as well, evolved over time and for political purposes.

    Having said that, without doubt, most Christians have not, nor will they ever not only NOT read "The Evolution of God" -- MOST Christians haven't even read their Bible cover-to-cover.

    Think I'm kidding?

    Ask the Christians you know if they've actually read the Bible.

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  18. Anonymous7:47 AM

    Whether it started this way or not, organized religion has been used to control populations from long before the period of time we are talking about. It was used to control uneducated masses of people so they could be happy with their lot in life, usually not a nice lot in life. Work hard and be happy where you are and you will get your reward AFTER you die. But the surprising fact, is that it has evolved to control modern masses of people that have access to education. I don't know about the rest of you, but I was unhappy with my lot in life so I got an education and changed that, I didn't need to wait until I DIED.

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  19. Anonymous8:04 AM

    Just read Jesus of Nazareth by Aslam. Very interesting. John the Baptist and James, bro of Jesus got screwed.

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  20. Anonymous8:37 AM

    Sounds plausible, especially when you factor in that in the 4th century money and power rewrote the bible to fit their facts. A lot of what was known was "lost" on purpose to protect the powerful and subjugate the common people with guilt and threats of damnation. Why do you think it takes super special clearance to get into the Vatican archives? A lot of the stuff is there, the RCC is like the Nazi's, they hate to toss anything away even if it proves them monsters.

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  21. Anonymous8:46 AM

    Interesting, very sober analysis of the depth of the fundamentalist Christian mindset in the Republican Party.

    http://www.salon.com/2013/10/10/christian_delusions_are_driving_the_gop_insane/

    Said mindset will not be helped in anyway by the information revealed by Mr Atwill.

    Aurora

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  22. Anonymous9:33 AM

    The god industry is highly profitable. The basic product, a god, can be embellished with myriad rules, all geared to feed the coffers of a "church" (aka the flim flam types).

    Every little while someone invents an economically viable religion (for example mormonism) and it gets a multi-century run. The only really interesting questions about religions are what makes them economically viable. The usual answer is that control of women is easy to sell.

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  23. Richard Carrier, a historian who is pretty skeptical of Christian sources, apparently finds this Atwill theory to be nothing more than crackpottery:

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/4664

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    1. LisaB259511:08 AM

      I think it's pretty crackpot. Why would the greatest military power the world had known worry about a small religious sect on the edges of the empire? This is like those gun nuts thinking that AR15 is going to somehow protect them if the US military ever decided to seize their guns.

      Were there Jews who wanted violent overthrow of their masters? Sure. They were called Zealots and Jesus had one among his disciples. I would imagine any efforts they made in this regard would be akin to ankle biting the Roman Empire.

      The Zealots actually did try to violently overthrow the Romans, BTW. It was in 70 AD and the Romans solved the problem once and for all: they destroyed the temple. Jews became diaspora. From that date, there was no significant Jewish presence in the Jerusalem until 1948.

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  24. Anonymous11:06 AM

    Google Richard Carrier and you'll find he's referred to as either an "Inept Idiot" or an "Ignorant Simpleton". Your point?

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  25. Anonymous11:21 AM

    A day or so ago, you featured the writing of historian Eric Zuesse on the Koch brothers and facist tea party engineering the government shutdown.

    Don't know if you saw the link to a book he wrote about the historical roots of Christianity.

    "This book also explains and documents the tortuous 14-year-long conflict Paul had had with this sect’s leader, Jesus’s brother James, a conflict which caused Paul, in about the year 50, to perpetrate his coup d’état against James, and to start his own new religion: Christianity."

    Christ's Ventriloquists: The Event That Created Christianity
    http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007Q1H4EG



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  26. Anonymous11:55 AM

    I find this fascinating. I am a Christian but I love all sorts of exigises regarding the history, archeology, translations, politics, etc of the Bible. . .had not heard of this one! Thanks. But consider this, Gryph. My "takeaway" from the teachings and examples of Jesus is that the man really is not the point; it was always supposed to be The Message, i.e., The Word. And frankly, I still find that Word, that message, compelling and satisfying, whatever the provenance! But what a hoot if it really did come from a bunch of Roman schemers! God works in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform!! ;)
    MicMac

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  27. Anonymous12:26 PM

    This author is full of s**t. This is my area of study, and I went from thinking Jesus probably did not exist, to finding enough "circumstantial evidence" to convince me that he did. At this point my feeling is that he was a prophet, a holy man, but that over time the reality of who he was has been layered over with many myths and legends, and his message manipulated -- mostly to serve various political agendas. His own teachings have gotten nearly lost in the process. Poor guy....

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    1. Anonymous1:35 PM

      I agree with you wholeheartedly. But one can still attempt to dig the goodness of the teachings out from under the rubble.
      MicMac

      Delete
  28. Anonymous1:20 PM

    Rather than any "Queen Esther," Sarah Palin is nothing but a sell-out, taking money in exchange for her media manipulation to help perpetuate the Koch's oligarchical control.

    Her outrage is ignorant, simple-minded and blatantly false.There is NO "War On Christmas" -- not from outsiders anyway.

    In fact, it's the parasites WITHIN Christianity who are destroying it -- and the rest of society right along witih it -- by, for example, protecting sexual predators (whether priests or her husband), by preventing women from governing even their own bodies (whether charging for "rape kits" or faking a pregnancy) and worst of all broadcasting the most absurd, hateful lies.

    That Palin has not been struck silent by a lightning bolt out of a clear blue sky constitutes further evidence that there is no God.

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  29. Nos see THIS is the kind of dialogue about religion that I enjoy.

    You don't have to agree with me, or with the information that I posted. But look at all of the new information that was shared, and all of the differing points of view that we heard from.

    It was awesome!

    That is exactly why I started this blog in the first place.

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  30. Did these Romans write these texts in latin. Or Greek? And why Greek? (Or aramaic?)

    What about the apostles? Were they are fake too? Was no John crucified upside down in Rome?

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    1. Anonymous11:24 AM

      You really don't think the first bible was written in Latin do you? (eyeroll)
      Yep, your whole faith is built on parables from other cultures, beginning with Adam and Eve, which is really the Egyptian story of Gods Osiros and Isis. Get over it, it's all fake.

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  31. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  32. ajweishar8:04 PM

    Eddie Izzard's story of Jesus is another great source. Nothing like logic mixed with humor to put a kink in these tenets of various faiths. I especially like the part where he congratulates baby Jesus for arriving six days early and solving the calendar makers' problem. They had run out of years and were approaching zero BC.

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  33. It will no doubt come as a shock to many to discover that there are no supernatural events recorded in the New Testament.

    The doctrines of Christianity were formulated by the early church Hellenist "fathers" who were ignorant of Hebrew concepts and Hebrew terminology. This fact allowed them to fashion this virgin born, God-man according to the predilections of their own religious backgrounds.

    The New Testament does not mention any virgin birth, nor does it claim that Jesus is "divine" and it certainly does not teach pagan concepts such as the Trinity.

    What it does say is that Jesus was born out of wedlock, a low-status individual with no authority except his own character, who nevertheless challenged those with the greatest status and the highest authority.

    The only real mystery in the New Testament is the stories of the Resurrection but, even there, social scientists of the period recognise that in ancient societies there was a phenomenon known as "altered states of consciousness."

    But, no "supernatural" stories. No Virgin Birth, no Divinity, no Trinity.

    As for Atwill's book, well, underlying the Greek of the NT documents we have are many passages full of Semitic syntax, vocabulary, idioms, thought patterns, and a thorough knowledge of Hebrew Messianic expectations. Some of its apparently difficult passages can only be understood by studying the underlying Hebrew text.

    It is quite absurd to suggest that all of this is a later construction by Hellenist-trained Roman aristocrats.

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