Thursday, January 02, 2014

Bill Nye the Science guy to debate Ken Ham anti-science guy. Update!

Courtesy of Raw Story:  

Bill Nye “The Science Guy” is scheduled to debate Creation Museum founder Ken Ham next month. 

The former children’s television host and outspoken critic of creationist teaching will discuss whether the Bible-based version of Earth’s origins is a viable model Feb. 4 at the museum in Petersburg, Kentucky. 

The debate starts at 7 p.m., and tickets will cost $25. 

Ham, the president and CEO of Answers in Genesis, said he was excited to face off against Nye. 

“It’s quite rare these days for such a well-known evolutionist to publicly debate a creationist – so we do expect a lot of media interest,” Ham said on his Facebook page.

There are many who are not terribly pleased that Nye is  giving this guy the time of day, because it lends an air of credibility to something which should be treated with derision by any of those in the scientific community.

There was a time that I would have agreed with that, but considering that ignoring Creationists has allowed them to insert their superstitious bullshit into our public school science books, I no longer feel we have the luxury of ignoring them.

Having said that I wish that somebody a little more aggressive were going to face off with Ham who I consider a child abuser of the highest order. What Ham teaches very young, and I mean VERY young, children about Evolution is incredibly harmful to their respect for science and their trust in their teachers. 

He cripples their rational thinking skills and turns them into magical thinkers instead of the kind of curiosity driven explorer that every child is naturally.

So while I LOVE Bill Nye, I know he is going to treat Ken Ham with respect and kindness, because Nye is a real sweetheart.

However I believe that Ham deserves to be kneecapped in front of a large audience and that he should leave the stage struggling for every breath after being debated into a near catatonic state

If Christopher Hitchens were still alive he would be my first choice, as he would happily call Ken Ham a fraud and a POS to his face.

Believe me I am still going to watch video of the debate when it becomes available (I watch similar debates all of the time) but I just hope that Nye bloodies Ham somewhat, because there are few Biblical charlatans who deserve it more.

Update: It does not appear that Ken Ham has much trepidation in facing off against Bill Nye:

“A debate with Mr. Nye, nationally known for his children’s TV program and for promoting evolution, will be one of our major events in 2014 to highlight how children and teens are being influenced by evolutionary thinking," declared Ham. “This year, our AiG theme is ‘Standing Our Ground, Rescuing Our Kids.’ Having the opportunity to hold a cordial but spirited debate with such a well-known personality who is admired by so many young people will help bring the creation/evolution issue to the attention of many more people, including youngsters.” 

Ham added, “I hope to show Mr. Nye and our debate audience that observational science confirms the scientific accuracy of the Genesis account of origins, not evolution.”

The article goes on to say that Ham's organization is willing to debate Evolutionists "with credentials," but admits that it rejects challenges from "mocking, strident Evolutionists." Which reinforces my concern that they see Bill Nye as too nice to humiliate them during the debate.

I am fervently hoping they are wrong in that assumption.

30 comments:

  1. Anonymous4:22 PM

    Bill Nye IS a sweetheart, but he doesn't pull punches (in a most respectful way). I think we might see the sweetest knee capping any of could hope for.

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    1. Anonymous5:46 PM

      I have to agree, and it isn't a wrestling match after all. It's about being more convincing, and having facts to back it up.
      The point is to prove the creationist theory wrong. Nye can do that with ease.
      Sadly, these days no one bothers to listen to the other side's view anymore. And remember WHO we're dealing with. I'm not sure if any minds will be able to be changed.

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    2. Anonymous6:36 AM

      "any OF us," obviously (posting from my iphone can be challenging).

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    3. That's what I was thinking.

      He's a gentlemen. But he's not a sissy and he's not stupid. He'll use big words, he'll be forceful and he'll have data to run rings around Ham.

      I'm sure Ham will assume Bill is a godless atheist unfamiliar with the bible. I think the opposite is true. Bill will have done his homework to counter the opposition. But no way will Ham be able to counter everything Bill lays out except with "but the bible doesn't support that" which is a weak excuse.

      This is an exercise in futility. It won't change the minds of anyone that has already decided and it won't influence the young. They won't be watching g and they will believe what their parents tell them.

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  2. Unfortunately Bill Nye will discover you can't debate stupid and there is no logical answer to "faith". Faith and God is the stupid that calls out science and reality. Faith cannot be proven - which is why the dumber than dumb so love it.

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    1. Anonymous7:32 PM

      I remember a kid (like me at the time) who appeared incapable of understanding high school chemistry. He was the slow kid in class but he was fervent. He wanted to be a priest. Your post brought that memory out. Thanks TS!

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    2. Yep how can one argue with anything ham says that is or isn't in the Bible. His proof is, "Because God said/says so.".

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    3. Speaking of science where oh where is Gina?

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  3. Anonymous5:51 PM

    Did you see Bill Nye on the last season of DWTS? He suffered an injury and had to drop out early on (thus sparing him from getting the hook, because he was a pretty bad dancer), but before that happened, I was surprised by his competitiveness. The guy's no wimp.

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  4. Anonymous6:44 PM

    "Standing your ground?" Really?
    He picks a name linked to the killing of a teenager?
    Nothing threatening about that.

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    1. Anonymous4:23 PM

      Nor Godlike.

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  5. Anita Winecooler6:51 PM

    I hope Bill Nye can compose himself and not laugh in Hamm's face. I think it'll be pretty entertaining to watch Hamm's head explode. Creationism and Evolution are like oil and vinegar. Facts and Fables don't mix. Gee, I wonder if Mrs Creationist herself, will educate us on Facebook that Evolution is a myth? This is right up her alley!

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    1. Sometimes laughing at the statement of your opponent is the best response. Follow it with some hard facts and you've laid the seeds of humiliation. Viewers will remember laughing along with you and that emotion will continue.

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  6. "At the Creation Museum" is worrying too. I can't think Nye wouldn't have been willing on some neutral turf.

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    1. Anonymous6:35 AM

      Bill's a pretty smart guy. I think he knows what he's doing.

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    2. What bothers me is those on Nye's side will still be paying $25 to support the museum. So for Ham this is a win/win.

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  7. Anonymous7:54 PM

    Perhaps Bill Nye is the best choice for this event since they won't be able to claim that he is one of those radical, loudmouth lefty blowhards who tries to win by bullying instead of facts. We all know that Nye is well armed with scientific facts and the intelligence to understand and explain them clearly.

    Who better to debate this yahoo than someone with years of experience explaining science in terms even a child can understand?!?!

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  8. Ailsa9:31 PM

    “Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.”

    —Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man

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    1. Anonymous12:01 PM

      Yep, the Dunning-Kruger effect :
      "The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than is accurate. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their ineptitude.[1] Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding."

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

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    2. Anonymous12:18 PM

      And if I remember correctly, some Dunning Kruger test were done on members of the D and R political parties. You can only guess the results.... (smile)

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  9. I go along with Anonymous at 7:49. Those who argue primarily by mock and ridicule seldom convince anybody but those who are already on their side. Hardcore creationists will not be convinced by anybody. They will proclaim a great debate victory for Mr. Ham no matter who he goes up against - Hitchens included. If Hitchens were to eviscerate him in your eyes - already on his side and therefore in need of no convincing - he would only serve to harden their resolution. By employing respect, kindness, logic and facts, I believe Mr. Nye is far more likely to reach some of those who perhaps are not quite so entrenched, but who would also be driven toward a more had line by the mocking and ridicule of a Hitchens.

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  10. I go along with Anonymous at 7:49. Those who argue primarily by mock and ridicule seldom convince anybody but those who are already on their side. Hardcore creationists will not be convinced by anybody. They will proclaim a great debate victory for Mr. Ham no matter who he goes up against - Hitchens included. If Hitchens were to eviscerate him in your eyes - already on his side and therefore in need of no convincing - he would only serve to harden their resolution. By employing respect, kindness, logic and facts, I believe Mr. Nye is far more likely to reach some of those who perhaps are not quite so entrenched, but who would also be driven toward a more had line by the mocking and ridicule of a Hitchens.

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  11. Anonymous9:53 PM

    i don't care if they "rescue" their own children... i just want them brainwashing everybody elses kids.. the bible belongs at church not in education..
    on a side note, it is not surprising that the creationist don't believe in evolution since most of them haven't evolved past ancient superstitions.... knuckle draggers they are

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  12. Boscoe10:08 PM

    How do you debate someone who refuses to understand how science even works and has nothing but ignorance-fueled snarky gotcha one-liners to try and appeal to the inbred ignorance of already like-minded audience members?

    We're talking about a guy who is wholly confident in his (imagined) innate ability to debunk science unencumbered by actual knowledge of the subject.

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  13. Anyone who thinks anyone's mind will be changed by this debate is living in a fantasy world. The "faithful" will never listen to Nye's arguments. Nye should not have brought attention to these cretins.

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    1. Anonymous4:22 PM

      Actually I think we need to let them show their 'intelligence' much more often. Let people see how silly and crazy they sound to sane folks, and even those not sure.

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  14. Anonymous12:11 PM

    Where I feel uncomfortable with this is that they have very opposit styles of debating. Ney explains well in layman terms, is courteous and a listener, but Ham is a bully and uses a debate technique that just floods his opponant with so much info that the latter's time is spent just trying to debunk, with very little left for exposing his rational. This debate style has a name I cannot remember, but W.F. Buckley always used it, as shown in his debate with James Baldwin.

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  15. It's a debate ......A subject.....Both have faith in what they believe and both should respect the others faith ......DEbate on the other hand is fun ......

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  16. It's a debate ....It's a subject....Both have faith in what they believe .Respect for each others opinion is essential and debate can be fun .....

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  17. Anonymous6:43 AM

    Nye did a good job as well but using words like magical makes him sound disrespectful. People out here are praising him but do they realize how wrong he was about certain things? He said animals with sharp teeth must be carnivores?!?!?! He also said KY did not have a Nuclear Medicine program. If you can't figure those two things out then how can you be trusted with anything else. How many here believe that 1 ring in a tree equals 1 year? would you be surprised to know that they have found that multiple rings can occur in a year? and Hamm is the loon... yeah, not sure I can agree with that. Not everyone believes evolution. Even people that aren't creationists have different views on Origins. Hamm is right about one thing though, you can't prove what happened because you can't observe it. This is Highly logical. You can't know the age of the earth. It's impossible. You can estimate it based on calculations but as Hamm showed there are over 100 methods of dating out there. which is right? do most really predict a younger earth? why is that? THINK before you spout. sheesh. Did you know that Nye called Hamms science references (the people like the guy that invented the MRI) bad scientists? Really? That is really a dumb statement wouldn't you think? In fact, It's even dumber to assume that people that believe in Creation will somehow hurt us competitively as a nation? I'm sure many of you will disagree with that but the truth is if you do your an idiot. America needs folks with specialized skills and their belief in how old the earth is irrelevant. We need less nanny states and more hard working people. How do I know this? I am a professional and I work internationally. You can call me every name under the sun but the truth is I make 6 figures and understand the global marketplace. We are getting beat, Nye is right about that but it's not because of our belief in an old or young earth. It's because we expect something. We want a handout. We don't want to work hard. Other nations do. So have at me, I don't care, I'm tired of listening to the college level drivel that comes out of most evolutionists mouths. Believe what you want but until you can prove it (and, no, you can't prove it despite what you think) then you need to be open to other ideas. This is how we progress. I've tried to be open to evolution but I can't believe that one kind of animal can become another kind of animal. dogs don't become cats or anything else. Dogs stay as dogs. It's absolutely impossible to become anything else. Have a nice day.

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