The man terrifying that young man, is Elder David Bednar, who is a member of something called the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.
Apparently that means he is a big fish in the putrid little Mormon pond.
As a parent, and as a human being, watching this man make that clearly frightened child the center of attention, in order to teach some bullshit lesson about how straying from the path will put his very soul into jeopardy, makes me seethe with anger.
The boy asked a simple question, one that could have been answered simply, and without subjecting him to humiliation and fear.
You know I have taught numerous children the importance of studying, being moral and ethical, and about the real dangers and challenges that they may face in life, and not once did I make one of them cry nor feel the need to terrify them.
You can call me immoral til the cows come home, and insist that I cannot understand right from wrong without God or religion, but when I look in the mirror I see a man who children felt safe around, and who they knew would rather cut off his own arm then cause them any pain.
Emotional or otherwise.
The message itself wasn’t too bad, I don’t think he threatened the child with eternal damnation, but I felt uncomfortable because it was too hands-on. Maybe that’s just me. I know they have to fill the pews/chairs and fill the collection plates, because it’s their racket. I hope the kid sticks his nose into the wind one day and just keeps walking away from that cult.
ReplyDeleteThis is of course assuming they support public education, but can you imagine the family being alright with a civil servant doing anything remotely like this to their child?
ReplyDeleteit is pretty gross actually.
ReplyDeleteThe boy asked "If you stop reading the scriptures, what's the best way to get back into reading them?" This was never answered.
ReplyDeleteInstead the question was twisted to "What happens if I stop reading the scriptures?" and the boy was taught not to ask questions for fear of shame and humiliation. It is a typical tactic of a manipulator and sociopath.
exactly -- why not say something to the effect of if you want to get back into the habit of reading scriptures - find some friends or family that will sit down with you and read them together........or ask the child to remember one of his favorite scriptures and to start there.
Deletethe carpet example was falling apart pretty rapidly when they passed the midpoint-- but it was an interesting visualization - that too much of a good thing is about as bad as some of a bad thing.
why was the kid crying? why didn't the man kneel down and wipe his tears?
what was up with the huge bear hug? that was insanely gross.
It also bothered me that the child was told that if he didn't always treat his siblings with love and kindness he would be trotting the devil's path. Well, what kid at ten or eleven doesn't fight with his/her siblings? Teasing, rivalries are what go on in households and have nothing to do with the basic loving relationship that exists. It's normal age-appropriate behavior and, while parents certainly have to intervene especially if the fuss gets too noisy or rowdy, it should never involve the threat of hell for just being a normal, healthy child. I found the Elder to be simply creepy; he was so smooth and smarmy in that Mormon way that allows for no challenges or disagreement but always with that smile-ly voice.
DeleteBeaglemom
And then there's THIS!
ReplyDeleteThe Church of ‘Yeezianity’ Is a New Religion That Worships Kanye West
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/the-church-of-yeezianity-is-a-new-religion-that-worships-kanye-west/
All organized religion is is an excuse for evil people to be evil in the name of their god, and for not so evil people to look the other way, because THEY can say, "I'M the REAL Christian." It gives them all cover, because in our society it is frowned upon to call out "people of faith," whether they are true psychos are whether they just let the psychos operate under the same cover they use.
ReplyDeleteJust let the kids DIE, because, you know, God, that sky fairy in charge.
ReplyDeleteIdaho Republican opposes law aimed at stopping ‘faith-healing’ child deaths
A Republican lawmaker in Idaho is trying to stop a law aimed at preventing the deaths of children whose parents eschew medical treatment in favor of prayer. The Associated Press reported that state Rep. Christy Perry (R) believes that a law proposed by Democratic Rep. John Gannon violates religious freedom of families who believe God’s will supercedes modern medicine.
“This is about religious beliefs, the belief God is in charge of whether they live, and God is in charge of whether they die,” said Perry of the Followers of Christ, an extremist group who have let at least four children die of treatable illnesses in the last three years.
“This is about where they go for eternity,” she insisted.
...Parents in Idaho risk arrest and imprisonment for child neglect. The current law, however, includes a faith exemption that says, “Treatment by prayer or spiritual means alone shall not for that reason alone be construed to have violated the duty of care to such child.”
Gannon hopes to narrow that loophole, “whenever a child’s medical condition may cause death or permanent disability.”
The Democratic state representative told the AP that above all, “Medical treatment for physical harm to a child should supersede every other consideration.”
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/17/idaho-republican-opposes-law-aimed-at-stopping-faith-healing-child-deaths/
I'm reminded of that joke where a guy's in the middle of a flood and a boat comes by to help him, then a helicopter, etc, but he waves them all off saying "God will provide"--when he drowns he then asks God why didn't he help. God says, "I did! I sent a boat, a helicopter..."
DeleteSo when I hear " the belief God is in charge of whether they live, and God is in charge of whether they die"--why don't they also say "...and God gave us medicine to treat our sick?"
Pope Benedict Defrocked 400 Priests For Child Sex Abuse In Just 2 Years, Reveal Documents
ReplyDelete...The statistics were compiled from the Vatican's own annual reports about the activities of its various offices, including the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which handles sex abuse cases. Although public, the annual reports are not readily available or sold outside Rome and are usually found in Vatican offices or Catholic university libraries.
An AP review of the reference books shows a remarkable evolution in the Holy See's in-house procedures to discipline pedophiles since 2001, when the Vatican ordered bishops to send cases of all credibly accused priests to Rome for review.
Then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger took action after determining that bishops around the world weren't following church law to put accused clerics on trial in church tribunals. Bishops routinely moved problem priests from parish to parish rather than subject them to canonical trials — or turn them into police.
For centuries, the church has had its own in-house procedures to deal with priests who sexually abuse children. One of the chief accusations from victims is that bishops put the church's own procedures ahead of civil law enforcement by often suggesting victims not go to police and keep accusations quiet while they are dealt with internally.
The maximum penalty for a priest convicted by a church tribunal is essentially losing his job: being defrocked, or removed from the clerical state. There are no jail terms and nothing to prevent an offender from raping again.
According to the 2001 norms Ratzinger pushed through, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith reviews each case sent to Rome and then instructs bishops how to proceed, either by launching an administrative process against the priest if the evidence is overwhelming or a church trial. At every step of the way the priest is allowed to defend himself.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/17/pope-benedict-defrock-priests_n_4618932.html
400? That many pedophiles in the Catholic Churches? DISGUSTING!
It's a misleading story:
DeleteIn response to a story by The Associated Press asserting that Pope Benedict XVI defrocked nearly 400 priests during 2011-2012 for the sexual abuse of minors, the Vatican released a statement Friday saying that the number in the AP story refers to the number of new cases opened during that span rather than the outcome of those cases.
"It's important to note that those cases ordinarily refer to events that took place in earlier years. Moreover, the data cited do not refer to the outcome of the discussion of the cases, and therefore it's not a matter of priests dismissed from the clerical state."
http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/vatican-denies-report-400-priests-defrocked
That makes you seethe with anger? Seriously? This kid who is clearly a suck ass asked to be the center of attention when he raised his hand. Half way through the thing the kid apparently got very nervous. That's how people learn to function in front of groups, they do it, they face the fear, they survive, and the next time it's easier. This was probably the only useful thing I learned during my religious indoctrination.
ReplyDeleteI was however concerned, at around 3:50, worried that the elder might lose control and begin gently humping that tempting young man. Clearly that was Satan's plan.
He was clearly a shy kid who was set up to ask a stupid question. A kid would not have asked that question. The response by the elder was not spontaneous, it was all part of the show. The inappropriate touching was just another disturbing aspect.
DeleteI was raised in the Mormon church. Believe me, I grew up with kids who would've asked that question. The first Sunday of every month is devoted to "fast and testimony" meeting, during which they pass around a mic and members spontaneously share their testimony. Kids did it all the times, imitating their parents, convincing themselves and others what fine upstanding Mormons they are. My peers would encourage me to do it, telling me it would make my parents proud. Pretend you believe, to make your parents proud. I always figured Jesus would know I'm lying.
DeleteThere was one kid, Roger, who was a total delinquent. He would "bear his testimony" all the time. I use to dread this, because he was being totally sarcastic, mocking the adults, and I could barely keep from cracking up. The adults had no idea, lol, they would pat Roger on the back and talk about what a wonderful kid he was. Most of them didn't know he'd been out all night drinking and screwing. He's a lawyer now. Go figure.
I appreciate the comment at 3:13 as it answers one of my questions: why is a child asking that question? what is the set-up, the scene?
ReplyDeleteIt is striking how the tone of 'the Elder's' comments assume that the boy is already in charge of, responsible for, his personal spiritual journey...(do Mormons speak about 'salvation'?)
but it was also very creepy how 'the Elder' completely violated/trespassed the boy's physical space and personal/spiritual autonomy...
then, I got to wondering about Mitt Romney...just too many questions...that total alpha-male father of his, all those up-tight sons, that whole passel of grandsons...
TOO many questions...rampant patriarchy...noticed that some of the women in the audience seemed on the verge of tears...
all in all, a very revealing incident; thank you, Gryph for sharing it. I sometimes think you get a little over the top with your posts regarding different religions, but am always grateful after I face my diss-ease and read them thoughtfully.
Aurora
So remember, girls and boys. To stay away from the devil, it's always best to stand on a hand knotted Persian rug made by child labor in deplorable conditions.
ReplyDeleteThere isn't a magic carpet big enough to hold all the mormon children in the world, all hell's going to break loose when they fight for their rightful place safe in the middle of the magic carpet real estate.
Nothing more damaging to the psyche of a child than public humiliation. Anyone else get the creeps when the preacher grabbed the kid from behind and held him tight so he couldn't move?
I am afraid I don't get the condemnation. All cultures seek to steer the children to good. Remove the religion, the the d from devil and it is universal. Setting aside the decision to lose the actual question and respond to one somewhat different, where is the issue with a community gathering where children are encouraged t think through and to clarify right from wrong, good from bad, etc. And as to the physical contact, it is sad that evil is read into conduct that had been common to most cultures until for too many, it swung to being sleazy or creepy. Caring hugs are crossing the line. Creeps employ caring words, kind faces - we better stigmatize those as well. Sorry Gryph, your message is lost when you can't separate the wheat from the chaff. The magical god/devil stuff is worthy of scorn but the community support for moral guidance and the culturally specific comfort with limited physical contact don't deserve the tone of your comment or many of the submitted comments.
ReplyDeleteHi Friends. Like possibly many others, I happened upon this post from my Google Alert on keyword Mormon. I enjoy trying to stay informed of the "conversation(s)." For this one, a part of me asks the familiar refrain of why bother trying to describe tender feelings that can prompt one to tears such as those captured in this video -- like moments with loved ones, the rapture of a great musical performance, or the sweet confirmations of eternal truths by the Holy Spirit-- in a barroom of hate-drunken loudmouths. But Abinadi's example in the Book of Mormon reminds that every now and then a sensitive soul is there, actually listening amidst the rabble. A love-inspired (toward all participants and viewers) critique of this interaction would recognize the pure nature of the boy's question and Elder Bednar's instruction while suggesting he consider a less physical demonstration in light of today's uber-sexualized society. I am positive that were we to actually ask the boy -- and those in the audience -- the reason for their tears, they would speak of feeling sweet confirmation of tender truths, and not the slightest hints of being embarrassed, abused, or humiliated. Life stories illuminate the reactions of those in the video and those posting comments above. God knows our hearts, and our life stories completely -- better than we know them ourselves. Let's leave judgement to Him and the loving of each of us in this earthly family to each other. Hope you can hear my (and the 'Still Small") voice and feel my "creepy" love, precious fellow traveler(s). The Lord's wedding feast is open to all -- we're all invited, with spectacularly beautiful freedom to choose (or not) such soulful nourishment.
ReplyDeleteDouchebag. Not the Mormon. The Moron who led me to watch this video thinking I was going to see something horrible.
ReplyDelete