Morality is not determined by the church you attend nor the faith you embrace. It is determined by the quality of your character and the positive impact you have on those you meet along your journey
Monday, March 24, 2014
Something to keep in mind.
To be fair there are quite a number of Jewish people and Muslims who believe the Christian version as well.
But remember if 5 billion people believe in something stupid, it does not make it any less stupid.
EX-episcopalian here. Most of the Episcopalians are very opened minded. However, there are more and more becoming closed-minded and stupid - especially here in the south.
Most of the above, however, is aimed at those ignorant fundies who don't have the exposure to true open-minded study that USED to be standard procedure in the episcopal church.
Voucher Programs Funneling Taxpayer Money Into Anti-Science Curriculum: Report
According to a new investigative piece on POLITICO, taxpayer money via voucher programs is being used to fund a phalanx of not just creationist but fully anti-science curricula in private schools.
You just called five billion people stupid. You don't agree, fine, But name calling makes you mean, judgemental and conflicts with your constant profession that you "do the right thing" because it's the right thing, not because you fear hell or God.
You went on your own journey of enlightenment and now you think you have all the answers?
That's a pretty big head, Gryphen.
You not only KNOW that there is no God but you ALSO have the Audacity to call others STUPID for their beliefs?
I think your ex wife fucked with you and your daughter so badly that you can't separate the wheat from the chaff(?). (No idea, I've never used that metaphor before).
I do not think I "have all the answers," in fact I have relatively few of them.
The arrogance is not in knowing how little you and others know, it is in believing that you have managed to uncover the actual truth and that everybody else is wrong.
Stupidity is refusing to examine any evidence that endangers a superstitious belief system, and then insisting that your religious fables be taught in schools as fact.
If that hurts somebody's feelings, then good. They are more than welcome to uncover some factual evidence which proves me wrong, and proves themselves right.
What Gryphen actually wrote: But remember if 5 billion people believe in something stupid, it does not make it any less stupid.
What "glamour tornado" wrote in part: You just called five billion people stupid.
He did? Just now? Do you want to claim he reworked his article after you posted your comment? Otherwise you are—deliberately or otherwise—misrepresenting what he wrote. What he actually called stupid—and only by implication, at that—was creationism.
I'm not suggesting that you actually didn't understand what he really wrote. Such a misunderstanding would be the act of a person who, at least in the moment, was linguistically/logically stupid.
I'm not suggesting that you were even temporarily stupid or lacking in reading comprehension. There is at least one alternative. It could be—and mind you, I'm only posing this as one of several possible hypothetical alternatives—that you simply, for whatever reason, wanted to dump on Gryphen and saw this as an opportunity.
You made my point well that there are simply too many factors at play.
Of course only FACTS should be taught in our schools.
But as you said, we need a separation of church and state(and state-funded schools).
There is a big difference between the people who preach that science and the Bible are the same thing...
And those of us who don't seem to think there is a conflict between God and Science.
I wonder what the definition of Creationism was as it was used in this example.
If people defined Creationism as the Heavenly Fist Bump as seen above, well then, that's kinda cuh-razy. Or believing that it happened in 6 days and HE cracked a brew on the 7th.
But if it is the simple belief that God is somehow responsible for the creation of the universe, life, etc., then I don't think that believing in that is the CRAZIEST or stupidest thing ever.
As we saw in Cosmos, we are a part of a universe so large that there are galaxies that we think exist but we haven't even gotten their light reflected back to us YET so we still don't know how many millions of galaxies are out there.
We think our galaxy started from the Big Bang. That's awesome.
Where did all the other galaxies come from? We may never know (probably never), but it's just such a large, large existence how can any of us say what began the ENTIRE thing? It's beyond human comprehension.
You made my point well that there are simply too many factors at play.
If that was the point you were trying to make in your original comment, I suggest that there are more fruitful ways that you could have made it, which did not, for example, include accusing Gryphen of things that he did not write, accusing him of thinking that had "all the answers" or presuming to pass judgement on his family life.
Where did all the other galaxies come from?
Among people who accept the Big Bang as fact* the "other galaxies" are generally considered to be a part of it. Ditto for those who consider it to be just a reasonable working hypothesis.
It's beyond human comprehension.
Please. Speak for yourself. And please restrain yourself from accusing me of claiming that I comprehend it all. I didn't write that.
*Stephen Jay Gould chacterized "fact" this way: In science, "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent."
I was addressing my initial response to Gryphen. The reason being I chose to speak...to Gryphen. Because I have been a fan/reader of IM for many years and there are a few things that I know.
I know that Gryphen is incredibly courageous to blog so honestly about who he is, where he lives and what he believes. It's incredibly rare on the Internet (probably b/c it's quite dangerous), but it is what Gryphen does.
Part of Gryphen's honesty has been about his family. He was married and his wife became obsessed with religion to the point that Gryphen said she was basically brain-washed. She was leaving Alaska and taking Gryphen's daughter to the lower 48. Gryphen wrote that his daughter was forced to deal with her mother's religious obsessions until she was old enough to get out and move back to AK with Gryphen.
Is that about right, Gryphen?
So my comment about his family - as harsh as it seemed - was actually about the very real damage that organized religion played in Gryphen's life.
I could have written all that out, Ted...but I was talking to Gryphen and he knows what happened in his own life.
Also, you may not write something out but there is also something called a "logical conclusion".
And things may be "generally considered" but it doesn't make it so.
I do hope whoever produced that was using the Sistine Chapel image to be cute - for want of a better word - and this does not represent his/her experience with great art, for that would be a shame.
To quote Eistein: "The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious — the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science."
Even remembering experiencing the Sistine Chapel is emotional for me and that has nothing to do with the origins of man and everything to do with the wonder of the universe.
Re: Sistine Chapel. Did you ever notice the shape of the cloud and flowing drapery and the cherubs that surround Michelangelo's image of God, as He reaches out to touch the hand of man? The shape is the same as the human brain and stem. Think about it.
Yes. There was an article in Scientific American in 2010: Michelangelo’s secret message in the Sistine Chapel: A juxtaposition of God and the human brain
Episcopalian here. We believe in evolution.
ReplyDeleteEX-episcopalian here. Most of the Episcopalians are very opened minded. However, there are more and more becoming closed-minded and stupid - especially here in the south.
DeleteMost of the above, however, is aimed at those ignorant fundies who don't have the exposure to true open-minded study that USED to be standard procedure in the episcopal church.
A truly omnipotent god has no conflict with science or mathematics. Just sayin. Peace
ReplyDeleteAgreed.
DeleteVoucher Programs Funneling Taxpayer Money Into Anti-Science Curriculum: Report
ReplyDeleteAccording to a new investigative piece on POLITICO, taxpayer money via voucher programs is being used to fund a phalanx of not just creationist but fully anti-science curricula in private schools.
Stephanie Simon’s exposé examines the almost $1 billion of public funds, spread across fourteen states, that goes to textbooks and curricula that venture beyond six-day creationist theories to ignore or actively dispute modern scientific and mathematical findings:
http://www.mediaite.com/online/voucher-programs-funneling-taxpayer-money-into-anti-science-curriculum-report/
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/education-creationism-104934.html
You just called five billion people stupid.
ReplyDeleteYou don't agree, fine, But name calling makes you mean, judgemental and conflicts with your constant profession that you "do the right thing" because it's the right thing, not because you fear hell or God.
You went on your own journey of enlightenment and now you think you have all the answers?
That's a pretty big head, Gryphen.
You not only KNOW that there is no God but you ALSO have the Audacity to call others STUPID for their beliefs?
I think your ex wife fucked with you and your daughter so badly that you can't separate the wheat from the chaff(?). (No idea, I've never used that metaphor before).
I do not think I "have all the answers," in fact I have relatively few of them.
DeleteThe arrogance is not in knowing how little you and others know, it is in believing that you have managed to uncover the actual truth and that everybody else is wrong.
Stupidity is refusing to examine any evidence that endangers a superstitious belief system, and then insisting that your religious fables be taught in schools as fact.
If that hurts somebody's feelings, then good. They are more than welcome to uncover some factual evidence which proves me wrong, and proves themselves right.
At that time I would gladly apologize.
Here let me hold my breath.
What Gryphen actually wrote: But remember if 5 billion people believe in something stupid, it does not make it any less stupid.
DeleteWhat "glamour tornado" wrote in part: You just called five billion people stupid.
He did? Just now? Do you want to claim he reworked his article after you posted your comment? Otherwise you are—deliberately or otherwise—misrepresenting what he wrote. What he actually called stupid—and only by implication, at that—was creationism.
I'm not suggesting that you actually didn't understand what he really wrote. Such a misunderstanding would be the act of a person who, at least in the moment, was linguistically/logically stupid.
I'm not suggesting that you were even temporarily stupid or lacking in reading comprehension. There is at least one alternative. It could be—and mind you, I'm only posing this as one of several possible hypothetical alternatives—that you simply, for whatever reason, wanted to dump on Gryphen and saw this as an opportunity.
Have a glamorous day.
Gryphen,
DeleteYou made my point well that there are simply too many factors at play.
Of course only FACTS should be taught in our schools.
But as you said, we need a separation of church and state(and state-funded schools).
There is a big difference between the people who preach that science and the Bible are the same thing...
And those of us who don't seem to think there is a conflict between God and Science.
I wonder what the definition of Creationism was as it was used in this example.
If people defined Creationism as the Heavenly Fist Bump as seen above, well then, that's kinda cuh-razy. Or believing that it happened in 6 days and HE cracked a brew on the 7th.
But if it is the simple belief that God is somehow responsible for the creation of the universe, life, etc., then I don't think that believing in that is the CRAZIEST or stupidest thing ever.
As we saw in Cosmos, we are a part of a universe so large that there are galaxies that we think exist but we haven't even gotten their light reflected back to us YET so we still don't know how many millions of galaxies are out there.
We think our galaxy started from the Big Bang. That's awesome.
Where did all the other galaxies come from? We may never know (probably never), but it's just such a large, large existence how can any of us say what began the ENTIRE thing? It's beyond human comprehension.
all i'm saying... :)
You made my point well that there are simply too many factors at play.
DeleteIf that was the point you were trying to make in your original comment, I suggest that there are more fruitful ways that you could have made it, which did not, for example, include accusing Gryphen of things that he did not write, accusing him of thinking that had "all the answers" or presuming to pass judgement on his family life.
Where did all the other galaxies come from?
Among people who accept the Big Bang as fact* the "other galaxies" are generally considered to be a part of it. Ditto for those who consider it to be just a reasonable working hypothesis.
It's beyond human comprehension.
Please. Speak for yourself. And please restrain yourself from accusing me of claiming that I comprehend it all. I didn't write that.
*Stephen Jay Gould chacterized "fact" this way: In science, "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent."
Um, Hello...Ted~
DeleteA few things:
I was addressing my initial response to Gryphen. The reason being I chose to speak...to Gryphen. Because I have been a fan/reader of IM for many years and there are a few things that I know.
I know that Gryphen is incredibly courageous to blog so honestly about who he is, where he lives and what he believes. It's incredibly rare on the Internet (probably b/c it's quite dangerous), but it is what Gryphen does.
Part of Gryphen's honesty has been about his family. He was married and his wife became obsessed with religion to the point that Gryphen said she was basically brain-washed. She was leaving Alaska and taking Gryphen's daughter to the lower 48. Gryphen wrote that his daughter was forced to deal with her mother's religious obsessions until she was old enough to get out and move back to AK with Gryphen.
Is that about right, Gryphen?
So my comment about his family - as harsh as it seemed - was actually about the very real damage that organized religion played in Gryphen's life.
I could have written all that out, Ted...but I was talking to Gryphen and he knows what happened in his own life.
Also, you may not write something out but there is also something called a "logical conclusion".
And things may be "generally considered" but it doesn't make it so.
I do hope whoever produced that was using the Sistine Chapel image to be cute - for want of a better word - and this does not represent his/her experience with great art, for that would be a shame.
ReplyDeleteTo quote Eistein: "The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious — the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science."
Even remembering experiencing the Sistine Chapel is emotional for me and that has nothing to do with the origins of man and everything to do with the wonder of the universe.
Re: Sistine Chapel. Did you ever notice the shape of the cloud and flowing drapery and the cherubs that surround Michelangelo's image of God, as He reaches out to touch the hand of man? The shape is the same as the human brain and stem. Think about it.
DeleteYes. There was an article in Scientific American in 2010: Michelangelo’s secret message in the Sistine Chapel: A juxtaposition of God and the human brain
Deletehttp://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2010/05/27/michelangelos-secret-message-in-the-sistine-chapel-a-juxtaposition-of-god-and-the-human-brain/