Morality is not determined by the church you attend nor the faith you embrace. It is determined by the quality of your character and the positive impact you have on those you meet along your journey
Friday, July 04, 2014
Why is it so hard for people to understand this?
Whenever anybody starts a conversation with the words "Atheists believe..." I am essentially done listening.
That indicates that they have no idea what it is to be an Atheist. And probably never will.
I hope that when you stop listening, before you walk away you slap the fool silly! And I mean verbally, not physically.
Me? The first thing out of my mouth is usually "BULLSHIT!!!" Then I slap them with what I DO believe - or at least, the short version. Then, as I am walking away, I usually end by saying they are stupid for thinking unless people believe as they do they believe nothing.
Probably doesn't do any good, but it certainly makes ME feel better!
Of course, I am shoveling sand against the tide since people have been trained this way for millennia. And you know why, too.
My guess is that some people simply can't conceive of anyone who doesn't blindly worship a deity. They just can't wrap their heads around it, hence the comeback--"You don't believe in god? Well, that means you must worship the devil!"
Lack of something is not a philosophy, or a belief
Most non-thiests consider lack of belief to be a non-entity, and not the opposite of any belief or faith or philosophy regarding religion or god or any deity.
Athiesm really is a null.
In computer science, a null is no value whatever, not even zero, which to me illustrates it perfectly.
Non-thiests who are rational don't have any conflict with science or the scientific method, by defintion.
Athiests have no faith or belief in gods, mythology, ancient scriptures or religion that must be reconciled to whatever is proven in a laboratory or scientific endeavors.
That's a far cry from the Christian creationists who are consistently trying to "prove" their bible verses based on faith, and who reject the age of the earth, the size of the universe, or evolution.
If science, math, or technology demonstrate a repeatable, observable, credible reality, process, or fact that is provable, and reviewed by peers it's taken at face value, full stop, regardless of how radical it might seem, or how disturbing the results are.
Christian Conservatives Are Trying To Use Hobby Lobby To Discriminate Against Gays
...According to the former religious “White House friendlies,” the Hobby Lobby ruling should prompt the White House to reexamine, and acknowledge the importance and power of groups demanding their religious rights against the priorities of every other group. What that means for future legislation, Administration policies, and executive actions according to the faith groups is that hacking away at the rights of all Americans is now the way forward to accommodate the religious right.
Americans had better get accustomed to every Presidential action and congressional legislation being closely monitored and remediated by all manner of Christian faith groups now that the High Court opened a Pandora’s box. It does not mean that President Obama is going to bend to the will of the religious right on anything, but it does mean he will have to tread lightly, or face a rash of lawsuits the judicial system now has a Supreme Court precedent to enforce.
"God is like sugar in hot milk. He's everywhere and one can't see him ; and the more you look for him, the less you find him".
I love this analogy, because it uses all the magical ever-so-profound excuses given by believers for their unability to demonstrate that their deity exists, and applies them to a common household good.
Of course, unlike God's presence, sugar's presence in milk can be easily checked out, by all humans having working tastebuds.
While no God can claim even as few as 50% of the existing humans as able to sense its presence.
Actually, the word "atheist" derives from the Greek "theos," which refers to the gods, and "a," which means "without." So it means "without gods." It was a term of contempt used in ancient Greece for those who rejected the idea that the gods existed. It is most definitely "a belief," (which is a feeling of surety that something it true) and any attempt to pretend it isn't is simply fooling yourself. But so what? If that's how you see it, that's how you see it, and it's no one's business but your own. Free country and all that.... :)
Actually, most of the atheists I know - including myself - look at the meaning of "atheist" as NOT believing in a god or gods. Those of us I know, do NOT believe a god exists.
Your way or mine, it is definitely NOT how the "religious" see us! Mainly because they see us as not believing the way they do, we are feared and ostracized. You even brought up the point I was making in my first comment on this posting. We atheists have been hated and feared and misjudged for millennia.
The lies surrounding our lack of belief have been growing for all the time man has had religion.
@ 9:00
It isn't JUST the religious right which sees that as true! EVERY religion (and here I am using Merriam-Webster's definition of religion: "the belief in a god or in a group of gods") feels that way about us! You are quite correct, however. It IS utter bullshit!
The atheists I know have a better moral compass than that of Christians that have been around my life for many years - and, yes, I'm a senior citizen and feel I have the experience to chat!!
They - the religious - mostly Republicans and the extreme right - live unacceptable lives centered around money and deceit. They could include: multiple marriages and divorce or staying married and having affairs and children out of wedlock - physical and emotion abuse of their wives, the raising of delinquent children, not following the laws of the USA, and that the 1%, multi millionaires and millionaires, think themselves superior to the poor and middle class!
Many regularly attend church on Sunday - give their 10% or more - appear righteous and religious and are truly the furthest from being so! Look at these type people in the United States Congress and politicians in the states across our country!
I prefer a non believer who does not follow their god!
"a belief," (which is a feeling of surety that something it true). So one who lives on a flat piece of land has a feeling of surety the earth is flat "believes" it's true,
If a belief is "a feeling of surety that something it (sic) true", then I have a humongous amount of beliefs : such as being currently alive, being part of the human species, being currently typing on a black keyboard, being reading the comments on the Immoral Minority... Can't list them all.
When you think of it, everything you've ever experienced in your life amounts to "a belief", with such a wide-gaping definition.
I'm sure you hold it as true that you were born. You believe in your own birth ! Go on, tell that to people around you, they'll think that you're nuts.
I try not to even use the word atheist. To me that denotes some kind of group that professes an ideology of no God. That ideology fuels a movement that, at times, acts just like religious movements. They have web sites, they ask for donations, they have an administrative hierarchy, they have goals to instill atheism whenever and wherever possible, they are always there to combat religious ideology wherever it appears like they are the natural enemy of religious thought. That is the job of the biblical devil. I am no devil.
I am an atheist and do NOT believe in the god of the Christian's. He or she cannot be proven - to me, it is all hype (and, a money generator!) and nothing more!
Actually, Atheists simply want to live in peace, without Christians shoving their faith down everyone's throats. They do not want their children brainwashed in public schools, they do not want to have to sit through Christian prayers at town meetings, and they don't want some fundy cult's hypocritical beliefs taking away basic human rights.
Semantics. Who cares? Why can't we just work a little harder to get along instead of labeling each other and sticking our feet in cement? Believe what you want to believe. Let me believe what I want to believe. Let's go have a hot dog together and light some sparklers.
Unfortunately I don't feel it will ever happen because the theists are afraid our existence threatens them. It's that lack of understanding thing. Or a refusal to understand. Take your pick.
Now where in HELL did you get the idea I was a christian? Or any other religion, for that matter! I AM NOT! I am fully atheist and have been for over sixty years.
As for your statement that it is "christians" who fear us, you have absolutely NO idea what happens in Muslim countries, do you? Go to Pakistan, then, and announce you are an atheist. You WILL be executed for it.
As for MY fear of whites becoming less than the majority? I couldn't care less! First off, I am not a racist and never have been. Second, I will be long DEAD before that comes to be.
Do yourself - and the rest of us - a favor? Stop ASSUMING and attempt to find out where a person actually stands on an issue before you go making asinine statements.
And how did you even THINK I was a theist? I mean, one sentence I wrote tells you exactly where I stand: "Unfortunately I don't feel it will ever happen because the theists are afraid our existence threatens them."
What part of "are afraid of OUR existence" do you not understand?
Only if you believe that ignorance doesn't need to be slapped down. At least IT can be corrected if the ignorant one wants to learn and only by being informed they are BEING ignorant may they attempt to try to learn.
I think that the more and more supposed 'christians' in politics - intertwine their 'belief's with and in government, that more and more of America's population will become atheists.
Plus, less and less Americans trust Republicans/Teabaggers throughout the country! Example: The majority of them do NOT live a 'christian' life and many of them are slated for Hell - at least according to their beliefs!
Can't argue with that G.
ReplyDeleteI hope that when you stop listening, before you walk away you slap the fool silly! And I mean verbally, not physically.
ReplyDeleteMe? The first thing out of my mouth is usually "BULLSHIT!!!" Then I slap them with what I DO believe - or at least, the short version. Then, as I am walking away, I usually end by saying they are stupid for thinking unless people believe as they do they believe nothing.
Probably doesn't do any good, but it certainly makes ME feel better!
Of course, I am shoveling sand against the tide since people have been trained this way for millennia. And you know why, too.
Having made my rant about this posting, I now have something to say that is TOTALLY off topic!
ReplyDeleteHAPPY FOURTH OF JULY!!!!!!!
(I sincerely hope it stays the Fourth we all know - not to mention the country.)
Just like when you start generalizing about all religious people and what they believe, I stop reading.
ReplyDelete"Believe"? You just don't get the philosophical point here, do you?
DeleteThe problem is that it's ipossible to generalize all religious people's beliefs. They all believe stuff vastly different from the next religion.
DeleteThat pretty well shows that all religious supernatural claims are utter bullshit.
My guess is that some people simply can't conceive of anyone who doesn't blindly worship a deity. They just can't wrap their heads around it, hence the comeback--"You don't believe in god? Well, that means you must worship the devil!"
ReplyDeleteDoes this come in a bumper sticker?
ReplyDeleteLack of something is not a philosophy, or a belief
ReplyDeleteMost non-thiests consider lack of belief to be a non-entity, and not the opposite of any belief or faith or philosophy regarding religion or god or any deity.
Athiesm really is a null.
In computer science, a null is no value whatever, not even zero,
which to me illustrates it perfectly.
Non-thiests who are rational don't have any conflict with science or the scientific method, by defintion.
Athiests have no faith or belief in gods, mythology, ancient scriptures or religion that must be reconciled to whatever is proven in a laboratory or scientific endeavors.
That's a far cry from the Christian creationists who are consistently trying to "prove" their bible verses based on faith, and who reject the age of the earth, the size of the universe, or evolution.
If science, math, or technology demonstrate a repeatable, observable, credible reality, process, or fact that is provable, and reviewed by peers it's taken at face value, full stop, regardless of how radical it might seem, or how disturbing the results are.
Christian Conservatives Are Trying To Use Hobby Lobby To Discriminate Against Gays
ReplyDelete...According to the former religious “White House friendlies,” the Hobby Lobby ruling should prompt the White House to reexamine, and acknowledge the importance and power of groups demanding their religious rights against the priorities of every other group. What that means for future legislation, Administration policies, and executive actions according to the faith groups is that hacking away at the rights of all Americans is now the way forward to accommodate the religious right.
Americans had better get accustomed to every Presidential action and congressional legislation being closely monitored and remediated by all manner of Christian faith groups now that the High Court opened a Pandora’s box. It does not mean that President Obama is going to bend to the will of the religious right on anything, but it does mean he will have to tread lightly, or face a rash of lawsuits the judicial system now has a Supreme Court precedent to enforce.
http://www.politicususa.com/2014/07/03/christian-conservatives-hobby-lobby-discriminate-gays.html
"God is like sugar in hot milk. He's everywhere and one can't see him ; and the more you look for him, the less you find him".
ReplyDeleteI love this analogy, because it uses all the magical ever-so-profound excuses given by believers for their unability to demonstrate that their deity exists, and applies them to a common household good.
Of course, unlike God's presence, sugar's presence in milk can be easily checked out, by all humans having working tastebuds.
While no God can claim even as few as 50% of the existing humans as able to sense its presence.
"In politics we spread God all over everything, like ketchup."
ReplyDeleteline from "The Best Man"
Actually, the word "atheist" derives from the Greek "theos," which refers to the gods, and "a," which means "without." So it means "without gods." It was a term of contempt used in ancient Greece for those who rejected the idea that the gods existed. It is most definitely "a belief," (which is a feeling of surety that something it true) and any attempt to pretend it isn't is simply fooling yourself. But so what? If that's how you see it, that's how you see it, and it's no one's business but your own. Free country and all that.... :)
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, the religious right sees "without a god" as "without a moral compass," utter bullshit.
Delete@ 8:22
DeleteActually, most of the atheists I know - including myself - look at the meaning of "atheist" as NOT believing in a god or gods. Those of us I know, do NOT believe a god exists.
Your way or mine, it is definitely NOT how the "religious" see us! Mainly because they see us as not believing the way they do, we are feared and ostracized. You even brought up the point I was making in my first comment on this posting. We atheists have been hated and feared and misjudged for millennia.
The lies surrounding our lack of belief have been growing for all the time man has had religion.
@ 9:00
It isn't JUST the religious right which sees that as true! EVERY religion (and here I am using Merriam-Webster's definition of religion: "the belief in a god or in a group of gods") feels that way about us! You are quite correct, however. It IS utter bullshit!
The atheists I know have a better moral compass than that of Christians that have been around my life for many years - and, yes, I'm a senior citizen and feel I have the experience to chat!!
DeleteThey - the religious - mostly Republicans and the extreme right - live unacceptable lives centered around money and deceit. They could include: multiple marriages and divorce or staying married and having affairs and children out of wedlock - physical and emotion abuse of their wives, the raising of delinquent children, not following the laws of the USA, and that the 1%, multi millionaires and millionaires, think themselves superior to the poor and middle class!
Many regularly attend church on Sunday - give their 10% or more - appear righteous and religious and are truly the furthest from being so! Look at these type people in the United States Congress and politicians in the states across our country!
I prefer a non believer who does not follow their god!
"a belief," (which is a feeling of surety that something it true).
DeleteSo one who lives on a flat piece of land has a feeling of surety the earth is flat "believes" it's true,
If a belief is "a feeling of surety that something it (sic) true", then I have a humongous amount of beliefs : such as being currently alive, being part of the human species, being currently typing on a black keyboard, being reading the comments on the Immoral Minority... Can't list them all.
DeleteWhen you think of it, everything you've ever experienced in your life amounts to "a belief", with such a wide-gaping definition.
I'm sure you hold it as true that you were born. You believe in your own birth ! Go on, tell that to people around you, they'll think that you're nuts.
I try not to even use the word atheist. To me that denotes some kind of group that professes an ideology of no God. That ideology fuels a movement that, at times, acts just like religious movements. They have web sites, they ask for donations, they have an administrative hierarchy, they have goals to instill atheism whenever and wherever possible, they are always there to combat religious ideology wherever it appears like they are the natural enemy of religious thought. That is the job of the biblical devil. I am no devil.
ReplyDeleteWow, are you delusional!
DeleteI am an atheist and do NOT believe in the god of the Christian's. He or she cannot be proven - to me, it is all hype (and, a money generator!) and nothing more!
DeleteActually, Atheists simply want to live in peace, without Christians shoving their faith down everyone's throats. They do not want their children brainwashed in public schools, they do not want to have to sit through Christian prayers at town meetings, and they don't want some fundy cult's hypocritical beliefs taking away basic human rights.
DeleteEr, you say "it's the job of the biblical devil" and you describe exactly a religious organization's modus operandi.
DeleteSaying you're atheist seems to me a lot more respectful than saying that religious organizations do "the job of their holy book's devil".
It might be true of some, even of most, but let's not always shove that in their mouths, m'kay ?
Semantics. Who cares? Why can't we just work a little harder to get along instead of labeling each other and sticking our feet in cement? Believe what you want to believe. Let me believe what I want to believe. Let's go have a hot dog together and light some sparklers.
ReplyDeleteNow wouldn't THAT be nice!
DeleteUnfortunately I don't feel it will ever happen because the theists are afraid our existence threatens them. It's that lack of understanding thing. Or a refusal to understand. Take your pick.
Leland: Think you are full of ca-ca, honey! The 'christians' are the ones that fear those that are not believers in your god!
DeleteMuch like white people in the USA will be the minority in years to come because of the mixed marriages. It frightens you all to death!
@ 1:31.
DeleteNow where in HELL did you get the idea I was a christian? Or any other religion, for that matter! I AM NOT! I am fully atheist and have been for over sixty years.
As for your statement that it is "christians" who fear us, you have absolutely NO idea what happens in Muslim countries, do you? Go to Pakistan, then, and announce you are an atheist. You WILL be executed for it.
As for MY fear of whites becoming less than the majority? I couldn't care less! First off, I am not a racist and never have been. Second, I will be long DEAD before that comes to be.
Do yourself - and the rest of us - a favor? Stop ASSUMING and attempt to find out where a person actually stands on an issue before you go making asinine statements.
And how did you even THINK I was a theist? I mean, one sentence I wrote tells you exactly where I stand: "Unfortunately I don't feel it will ever happen because the theists are afraid our existence threatens them."
What part of "are afraid of OUR existence" do you not understand?
Learn to read, fool!
Wow, Leland! A tad overdone by chance?
Delete@ 11:02
DeleteOnly if you believe that ignorance doesn't need to be slapped down. At least IT can be corrected if the ignorant one wants to learn and only by being informed they are BEING ignorant may they attempt to try to learn.
I think that the more and more supposed 'christians' in politics - intertwine their 'belief's with and in government, that more and more of America's population will become atheists.
ReplyDeletePlus, less and less Americans trust Republicans/Teabaggers throughout the country! Example: The majority of them do NOT live a 'christian' life and many of them are slated for Hell - at least according to their beliefs!
Same here. I love the ones who say "Your religion of Atheism" and my all time favorite "Everyone MUST believe in something, right?"
ReplyDelete