Tuesday, January 27, 2015

Jehovah's Witness leader rails against higher education as it might cause "spiritual disaster."

This comes to us courtesy of The Friendly Atheist: 

Jehovah’s Witnesses Governing Body member Tony Morris is the host of the January video on the new JW online television network and what he says is a terrifying tirade against higher education.

Here are a few excerpts from this tirade:  

… all too often, our young people have met with spiritual disaster, especially after leaving home and living on a university campus. So parents and children, you need to have a goal and you need to have a plan. If you’re missing either one, Satan will provide it for you. Young people, ask yourself: Why am I considering additional education? Is it because I’m pursuing a specific skill or trade to support my service to Jehovah? Or have I been pressured by the system into believing that higher education will somehow make me a more respected person or lead me to a better life?

So to be clear, education is a tool of Satan that Jehovah's Witnesses do not need. Since all that they need is available through faith.

Want more:

If we are in continued association with those who do not believe the same, it can erode our thinking and convictions… It is one thing to work on a job with others, and quite another matter to immerse oneself in an institution of “learning.”

In other words the only way this faith can possibly survive is if these people ONLY  interact with like minded folks and avoid anyone of a different faith of philosophy.

Here's a bit more: 

I have long said: the better the university, the greater the danger. The most intelligent and eloquent professors will be trying to reshape the thinking of your child, and their influence can be tremendous. One mom, I recall, asked me to try and help her son who was attending a prestigious-name university in Rhode Island. After visiting him, I later had to inform her that her son now believed in evolution. She refused to believe it until he finally told her himself. How sad.

Oh my God! They taught that poor child the dreaded evolution!

I have to admit that it is not often that a religious leader so clearly states that they their religious faith simply cannot stand up to scrutiny or that their only hope of holding onto congregants is to keep them as undereducated as possible.

But that is exactly what this guy just said in NO uncertain terms.

And let's face it he may be a Jehovah's Witness but his concerns are shared by the majority of religious leaders in this country, and beyond.

47 comments:

  1. Anonymous12:08 PM

    Now we know why none of the Palin spawn attend college.

    Nah, they are just too damn dumb to make it in a college.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Anonymous12:10 PM

    I was just thinking about charisma and how it's crucial in many careers. Look at Biden. It's no secret that he only made it through school because of this trait. His grades were pretty poor. Bottom 1/5 of the class. I like Biden and think he's a nice man. Don't like that his security people locked a reporter in a small room/closet for the length of a dinner but is that really rare? He probably didn't know about it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. None of what you are prattling on about has anything to do with this post, or indeed, anything to do with other parts of your post, so whatever you were doing, it wasn't "thinking."

      Delete
    2. Anonymous1:46 PM

      I also too keep thinking about charisma and no matter how much of it Mrs. Palin seems to have and from whence it comes (drugs, booze, birth defect, or all three?) she has been unable to tie her charisma to an actual level of adult discourse and intelligence, which is why she's finally being treated by even the far right media as a pariah and an ignoramus.

      Palin has proven that charisma is not enough, she needed to back it up with some intelligent thought and wisdom. Joe Biden may have had his foibles but his charisma is backed by a functioning brain.

      Delete
    3. Leland2:06 PM

      Excuse me, Nefer, but if I may ask you, why have you not slammed someone else for pulling this when they rant about something SP did or said? At least, not that I have seen, anyway.

      And further, did it not occur to you that the most successful people have charisma? And that includes the religious con men and women.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous2:57 PM

      12:10 : I agree with Nefer. Just WTH are you prattling about??? WHO CARES where in his class Joe Biden was, and also, too: WHO CARES what he did when...
      The topic here is HIGHER EDUCATION, or maybe you understand this word better:HIGHER EDJUMACASHION. Something you seem to be lacking.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous3:28 PM

      Biden is obviously a smart man. That may not have translated to doing well in college and yes he also has charisma which pulled him through. But it's clear when you see him work a room or a press conference or a debate that it's not all charisma.

      Delete
    6. Well, geez, Leland, I reply to blog comments that I happen to notice when and if I have time.

      I am so sorry that I am not keeping exact track of each and every damn fucking comment on each and every blog I visit and replying to all if I happen to reply to one.

      I don't consider this to be a job, and no one, including you, has any right to dictate to me which comments I am required to reply to and how.

      If you want to notice exactly who I respond to and when and how, be my guest. I don't think I am all that interesting, but go right ahead.

      I have often enjoyed your comments in the past but I'll sure be careful not to respond to them.

      "And further, did it not occur to you that the most successful people have charisma? And that includes the religious con men and women."

      I never suggested otherwise. That was not the point of my comment.

      Delete
    7. Leland5:14 PM

      Sorry Nefer, I wasn't trying to tell you who you could respond to nor was I trying to tell you how. I did think however, that slamming someone for what was said is uncalled for especially since I don't recall ever seeing you slam anyone else for the same thing.

      I wasn't keeping track of your comments, either. I just happen to remember that when you did comment, it was usually well thought out and completely rational - unlike this one.

      Delete
    8. Anonymous5:41 PM

      12:10 is a rightwing troll, not here to share information or contribute a single thing to the discussion except a disturbance of the flow. Trolls like 12:10 need to be called out. Period.

      Delete
    9. Anonymous8:41 AM

      My Dad saw in 1950 that I was not handy with my hands and I could not earn a living using my hands. He sent me to Geneva College, Beaver Falls, PA. I was interested in physics and math and got a BS degree with majors in both. Here in Augusta, GA I taught Math for 20 years in a community college. I also taught in some high schools. To continue teaching at the college I needed a masters. I graduated in 1985 with a MBA. I have more letters after my name than in my name.
      We just moved here to Martinez congregation and found that a young Witness had a four year degree and was able to go to China and work with the Witnesses there, quitely of course. Because she had college degree, they allowed her to stay and work teaching
      English.
      There is a congregation north of Dallas where 40% are college graduates, some with masters and some with doctorsl degrees.
      Locally here in Augusta, maybe about ten have gotten four year degrees. Now two have turned away from the Bible. That was the point of the above JW.
      Going on to college is a personal matter. The important thing is to keep faithful to Jehovah and his principles. It seems all young people need some kind of extra schooling after HS. This is a medical center and some young people have gotten medical training that gave them opportunity to work and serve Jehovah. We even have had three who graduated as dentists. It is all a personal matter and as with most things there are many caveats.

      Delete
  3. Anonymous12:16 PM

    I hate to tell him this but I lost my faith in high school. Not college. And I went to a Catholic high school.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Leland2:07 PM

      12:16, I was 6 when I lost mine. And my grandfather was an episcopal Bishop.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous5:43 PM

      Then you were one genius 6-year-old, Leland. And I don't believe you are a genius.

      Delete
    3. Leland2:05 AM

      Smart enough to recognize a bucket of shit when I see it or hear it read it - especially when one has it BEATEN out of them.

      I can also spot an idiot - even today.

      Believe what you will. I can't stop that and I won't try, but facts are facts and what I stated is a fact.

      Delete
  4. Anonymous12:23 PM

    I married into a family that is about half JW, and half ex-JW. We've had a saying for quite a while..."Keep them Stupid and JW." Pretty much anyone in the family who went for higher education dumped the cult (and it is a cult) right away. Their foolish beliefs require a level of hypocrisy far beyond that of most other religio-superstitious systems. Chief among these beliefs is the notion that anyone who leaves the cult is to be "disfellowshipped". To the credit of those who are drinking the Kool-Aid, their family ties are stronger than the commands of the deluded leadership of the JW's.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Anonymous12:23 PM

    Fox News is also roasting Palin

    Panning Palin: Why conservative media are dismissing her 2016 prospects

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/01/27/panning-palin-why-conservative-media-are-dismissing-her-2016-prospects/

    ReplyDelete
  6. Anonymous12:26 PM

    Fox News is done with Palin act

    Panning Palin: Why conservative media are dismissing her 2016 prospects

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/01/27/panning-palin-why-conservative-media-are-dismissing-her-2016-prospects/

    ReplyDelete
  7. Anonymous12:38 PM

    I think he means "intellectual disaster," but I'll take either.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Anonymous12:40 PM

    I used to walk to high school with a neighbor girl who was a JW. Her parents told her it was pointless to go to college because the end of the world was coming soon and she wouldn’t even be able to graduate. So she got a job clerking at a store to pass time until the end of the world. We graduated from high school in 1958. I never saw her again but somtimes wonder what she is doing now.

    ReplyDelete
  9. angela1:04 PM

    I went to high school with many JW. I'm talking twenty or so families. Out of all of those kids I knew of only one who went on to college and he got no help from his family. He was an outcast and eventually married out of his faith and moved away. The other Witnesses were big on getting their own businesses. They were not fond of working for other people. They also wanted their kids to stay at home until they got married.

    The only events they could celebrated were weddings, anniversaries and baby showers---and we all see where that is going. But I will say when they got to celebrate---- the party was out of control. No prohibitions against drinking!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Otto Katz4:08 PM

      JW's are not allowed to drink. The events you were at were filled with hypocrites. http://www.orange-papers.org/forum/node/2538

      Delete
    2. Otto, then every Witness I know is a hypocrite.
      Go figure . . . .

      Delete
  10. ibwilliamsi1:15 PM

    How you gonna keep 'em down when they've been to college?

    ReplyDelete
  11. Anonymous1:41 PM

    I know a few JW's and kindly asked them to put me on a "no visit" list because if they didn't stop coming to my door I couldn't be held responsible for my actions.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Leland2:09 PM

      Did it work?

      Delete
    2. A J Billings2:23 PM

      I live in a pretty remote area, and my driveway is 1/4 mile long.

      I used to get visits from the JW's fairly often, as in every couple of months, and it seemed like they would always arrive at an invconenient time.

      They also used to bring at least one young child with them on visits, probably on the theory that they would seem less threatening to paranoid types.

      I finally hit on a way to keep them away, and next time they showed up, I said, " Look, this isn't going to work as my girlfriend and I are nudists, and you may arrive when we are doing yard work without clothes on".

      Last time they ever showed up here!

      Delete
    3. Here is what actress Maggie Smith said, according to my source.... "Religion and penises have their uses, but I don't want either one of them wagged in my face."

      THAt might shut them up.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous3:00 PM

      2:23 : GOOD ONE!!!

      Delete
  12. Anonymous1:45 PM

    How in the shell do we control our minions,if they start thinking for themselves?

    ReplyDelete
  13. Anonymous1:55 PM

    And the Mormons are at it again trying to "appear" more mainstream...

    SALT LAKE CITY — Mormon church leaders are making a national appeal for a "balanced approach" in the clash between gay rights and religious freedom.

    The church is promising to support some housing and job protections for gays and lesbians in exchange for legal protections for believers who object to the behavior of others.

    It's not clear how much common ground the Mormons will find with this new campaign. The church insists it is making no changes in doctrine, and still believes it's against the law of God to have sex outside marriage between a man and a woman.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous2:23 PM

      What kind of "legal protections" are they looking for? The freedom to taunt, to discriminate in housing, hiring. I wouldn't fall for any deal with the Mormon Church. Best idea is to move out of Utah and settle where people are saner.
      Beaglemom

      Delete
  14. Anonymous2:21 PM

    We know a very bright teenaged boy who is a Jehovah's Witness, along with his mother. I hope that neither one of them will allow this man's insanity to prevent the boy from going to college. He has every hope of an outstanding future.
    Beaglemom

    ReplyDelete
  15. Anonymous2:56 PM

    We need a Jehovah's Witness Protection Agency to help deprogram the members of this cult and protect them from their own leader. I have co workers who "belong", the kids get no birthday presents, toys are frowned upon and they're motivated by 'brownie points" in the hereafter. When I first started working there, a lady who trained me had given birth two months later. I stopped by a store and bought a small rattle, a pack of onesies. a few outfits w/ sailor and cowboy inignias on them, pretty average fare for a newborn. I raised a collection and got flowers for the mother. These were the days when people could visit maternity wards, and even hold the baby in some cases.

    They had two vaguely bearded guys in suits at the door, and the husband came out and said "We're sorry, we don't believe in accepting baby gifts". I politely asked if they could bring the flowers in the room, and was told, in no uncertain terms, they were forbidden. Isn't a new life something to be celebrated, regardless of beliefs? I didn't visit, left the flowers to someone who didn't have any in their room, and gave the gifts to some stranger. When she returned from leave, she begged my forgiveness and said "It's something that's not up to me" I pushed the bridge of my glasses up and asked "Who is it up to if not the parent"? She handed me some bullshit materials too thin to use for toiletpaper and I handed it back and said "I asked YOU, not your current copy of "The Watchtower" and I informed her it was extremely insulting for someone to take their time and money to pick out a gift, only to have it shoved back in my face. What "god" wants to keep people misinformed when he supposedly gave them free will and the power of reason? I've avoided them like the plague but I pity the kids who are held back from higher ed. It opens so many opportunities a high school diploma alone can't.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Leland3:15 PM

    Fanaticism for ANY reason is dangerous!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Leland5:15 PM

      Sorry, but this was supposed to be a reply to what 2:56 wrote, not a stand alone comment.

      Delete
  17. Anonymous3:31 PM

    These are the people who the governing body is mostly made up of doctors and lawyers.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Otto Katz4:13 PM

    My ex married his jw girlfriend. The one he had his affair with that destroyed our marriage. (So religious of her) He couldn't celebrate Thanksgiving with our boys there, but they could have a turkey dinner with all the fixings the day before or the day after. He wasn't allowed to give his daughter birthday presents. But she was given new things the day before or the day after she was born. He wasn't allowed to put up a Christmas tree. So when the boys went to his house for Christmas break, they got presents, but not their sister. She'd just get new stuff at the same time, but it couldn't be wrapped. So fucking warped.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Anonymous4:23 PM

    If your religious beliefs are so fragile that public education and science can tear it apart than maybe your religion just isn't all that.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Anonymous4:32 PM

    Not ALL religions are anti-higher education. Many private colleges are religiously run or affiliated, inclduing many top universities - from liberal arts to research to law. : Loyola, DePaul, Boston, Notre Dame, Georgetown just to name a few RCC ones.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous5:36 PM

      RCC is anti-woman. That's worse than anti-higher education.

      Delete
  21. Leland5:23 PM

    One of the first things any dictator does is to get rid of any intelligentsia about whom he or she has ANY doubts. That's why Mao and Stalin had so many victims in the beginning. (Not that the numbers got lower as they progressed.)

    Thinking people are curious and wonder "Why?". Thinking people study things to understand them. Thinking people are harder to control. Thinking people ask questions!

    ReplyDelete
  22. Randall6:20 PM

    And the One True Perfect GOD made man and woman and they lived in perfection in a perfect garden.

    ...until they partook of fruit from the TREE of KNOWLEDGE.

    The whole of the Abrahamic religions; Judaism, Christianity, Islam - is willful ignorance.

    The Original Sin was the consumption of knowledge.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Leland2:09 AM

      Exactly! And some of the damned fools are finally waking up to that fact. Like Bob Jones University and places of that sort, who are starting them very early and literally brainwashing the kids beginning at 3 and 4. I feel sorry for the kids because they will never get away from it.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous5:28 AM

      we do get away. Loose family and friends. I just see the harm in all religions now. All the hypocrites all of them.

      Delete
    3. Leland3:39 PM

      5:28, what I witnessed last year at one of their "elementary schools" was a highly effective brainwashing technique that was probably not used on you. I was really scared for those kids and couldn't wait to get the hell out of there so I wouldn't say something intelligent and thus get in trouble with the company I subcontract for.

      When I got back to their office I told them in no uncertain terms they needed to find someone else to go there because I wasn't going back.

      THOSE kids WON'T be getting away!

      Delete

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