Morality is not determined by the church you attend nor the faith you embrace. It is determined by the quality of your character and the positive impact you have on those you meet along your journey
Saturday, January 10, 2015
Map of marriage equality in America. Can you say "progress?"
I think in many ways this is a visual representation of how our country is moving toward liberal ideals.
Yes we still have a long way to go, but damn have we come a long way already.
You know what, I don't even consider this "liberal." I've been with my husband 31 years, 32 come April, and anyone that has been together that long can tell you it's not all a bed of roses and it does take a lot of work and compromise. No one, not one of us, has the right to tell others how to live their life. Does gay marriage affect mine? Not even. Will it affect my grandchildren's lives? Yagaddabekiddinme.
Get off your damn high horse, evangelicals, and pull your nose out of the Old Testament. That's one huge log in your eye.......
Anon@4:20 said: No one, not one of us, has the right to tell others how to live their life.
I think this guy would disagree with you: A family owned bakery has been ordered to make wedding cakes for gay couples and guarantee that its staff be given comprehensive training on Colorado’s anti-discrimination laws after the state’s Civil Rights Commission determined the Christian baker violated the law by refusing to bake a wedding cake for a same-sex couple.
Jack Phillips, the owner of Masterpiece Cakeshop, in Lakewood, Colorado was directed to change his store policies immediately and force his staff to attend the training sessions. For the next two years, Phillips will also be required to submit quarterly reports to the commission to confirm that he has not turned away customers based on their sexual orientation. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/06/03/baker-forced-to-make-gay-wedding-cakes-undergo-sensitivity-training-after/
Funny thing about folks like Mr. Sellers -- when it comes to discrimination, they seem to think that they are totally immune. They never care to look at the other side and say to themselves (because they're Xtians, doncha know) "There but for the grace of God go I". Nope, never.
Maple, the fact is that, as a special privileged group, these gay men were able to bring the force of government down on the bakers. This couple could have easily found another baker, but instead decided to persecute them. The last time I looked people still had the right to freedom of and from religion. People naturally discriminate everyday. If you choose to buy a hamburger and decide to buy it at McDonalds, you have discriminated against Burger King. Jews and Muslims discriminate against pork because it is their religious belief. Should the Pork Council be able to petition the government to FORCE them to eat pork? It's the same damn thing.
First of all, dead meat can't be discriminated against. But people can be. So get over your white racist bigoted self, no one is going to make you marry another gay man, you can stay in the closet.
8:29 The only special privileged group I can think of is ,conservative christian, right winged republican, straight white, American males.
What you are not able to comprehend is Colorado, like all states, have laws. This bakery felt they didn't have to follow those laws. You know, because they are special.
Murica has all kinds of rules and regulations and laws. Don't like them? Tough shit. Or better yet, like the repubes always say, don't like it? Get the hell out.
Anon @ 9:02 said: The cake is not being discriminated against...
I wouldn't be so rude as to suggest you go back to school, but I would ask you to reread and comprehend a bit better what I wrote. In case you're lazy like me, I'll just tell you, I said it was illogical to accuse meat or cake of being discriminatory. Hope that helps.
Hey, orlin, OP here. I live in Portland, OR, and the original "we will NOT do a wedding cake" happened in Gresham, OR, a suburb about eight miles from my house.
Answer me something, would you? What the difference between "we will not serve gays," and "we will not serve colored people" in the 60s? There is none. NONE. And I say this to you as a Christian person, you show me ONE passage in the Bible where Jesus said to. ONE.
So you must agree that churches do not deserve the 501C tax exempt designation, correct? This is the flip side of your discrimination argument.
If you say that christian business people should not be forced to serve those whose lifestyle or religious affiliations they do not agree with neither should the Federal Government recognize a religious organization by granting special status to them, in this case a tax-exempt status based on religion.
Anon @ 11:48 am said: "So you must agree that churches...
No, I must not. But, you must agree that stores that post : "No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service" are discriminating against barefooted, topless people. Whereas myself, I've looked under every rock, every nook & cranny and nowhere do I find the unalienable RIGHT to service. But Hey, that's just me.
orlin, orlin, orlin......you DO realize that those signs were done for clientelle's health purposes, right? Germs are germs. I've yet to be in an establishment where your "coloreds" or "gheys" turned me into one.
"Whereas myself, I've looked under every rock, every nook & cranny and nowhere do I find the unalienable RIGHT to service."
First off, you're looking in the wrong places.
Second, (and I know you are going to try to twist this in your own ignorant way!) it IS a right to be served in many respects. If a refusal of service is discriminatory then it is the customer's right to sue. It is a violation of LAW to be discriminatory. It is illegal to refuse housing to blacks. It is illegal to refuse a citizen the right to participate if that refusal is based on gender or orientation or other recognized forms of discrimination.
The list goes on and on. And OP in 10:08 is quite correct, despite your childish attempt at belittling her comment. There IS no difference.
I would ask a question based on how childish your responses have been to many of the accurate and insightful postings you have attacked since joining us.
You still haven't shown me where that unalienable right to service is. Is it in Pizza Hut's pizza delivery service that refuses to deliver to certain areas or the cab drivers that refuse to pick or deliver in certain area? Discrimination is freedom. It is freedom to choose. It amazes me how the pro-choice people hate choice.
Btw, the germs are in the money you hand the clerk, not on your feet.
Yes, I have. You're just too stupid to see it and too ridiculous to even think about it.
Ladies and gentleman of IM, I suggest we all ignore the idiocy of this thing calling itself Orlin. It seems to be very much like your basic run-of-the-mill Fundie who is incapable of seeing facts when slammed from all directions.
So from now on, I personally refuse to deal with it regardless of what it says. Unless it perhaps grows up.
orlin, please don your tin foil hat and you know nothing of food service whatsoever. Is Palin paying you to post (?) because I find this quite hysterical.
Want to play this game, orlin? Tell us how you are being discriminated against here, we will wait, and have an honest discussion unlike your 4pee sites that delete a dissenting opinion upon posting. Grpyh hosts all opinions, one of his best traits. Proceed, sir....
What's wrong with the government demanding a bakery get sensitivity training when dealing with something that's legal? IF the owner doesn't like it, find a job where he doesn't deal with the public.
Businesses are allowed to exist and make money in the private sector and in return, are not allowed to discriminate based on a person's race, religion, ethnicity, sexuality, etc.. It's really that simple.
If you aren't willing to serve all kinds of people, then you don't get to be in business in this country.
It is NOT the same thing as (certain) Jews and Muslims not eating pork. What a ridiculous notion.
Now might be a good time for you all to go back to the post at 7:22 a.m. and reread all your comments in regard to the statement made which was: "No one, not one of us, has the right to tell others how to live their life." That was said with the pretext that gay marriage won't affect anyone's life, which I proceeded to prove was false. By each of your attacking comments you proved the point that yes, indeed, people will not be left alone and will be told what to do. There will be no free market, no freedom of association, no mutual, voluntary contracts, and everything else involved in free trade and voluntary exchanges. Instead what you have all called for is use of government force against the baker, butcher and candlestick make.
Yea, they, (the state of floriduh) won't be happy until he kills someone else standing his fucking ground. What a little pussy boy! To all of the 'good' xtians that sent him money, how do like georgie porgie so far?
I'm on my first cup of coffee so I'm feeling cynical, and my initial reaction tells me it wouldn't be happening so fast if there wasn't a buck in it somewhere for somebody.
Anon 4:20, yes it will affect your grandchildrens' lives in one respect: they'll wince at the backwardness of these times in their middle-ages when they're inviting their married gay neighbors over for poker and pizza night.
Several years ago, I watched a documentary about gay marriage, and it said that it was estimated that legalizing gay marriage would put $2 billion dollars into the economy each year, and I knew then: it will eventually become the law of the land, because the Christian righteous will always find financial profit moral.
"The greatest treason- to do the right thing for the wrong reason." I don't mind them doing it for the wrong reason, because eventually it will not be remarkable, but commonplace. That is the best outcome, when gay marriage can be commonplace as hetero marriage.
Ironic how religions in the US were protected from discrimination against their followers, but they refuse to allow all people those same non discrimination freedoms. Crazy to think religions were give special laws because a Catholic refused service to or refused employment to a Lutheran or Jew. We know it wasn't because of Athiests though.
Being in my 60's I'm witnessing changes I never expected to see in my lifetime. The gay ghettos and bars are going away as the GBLT community assimilates into the mainstream. I'm thinking it was the internet that blew the gates wide open. AOL gained prominence on the back of their M4M Chatrooms in the 1990's. A good friend was partner in operating a gay bar in NYC. He has the records to prove the drop in business when AOL went from a timed rate to an unlimited monthly charge. The internet has also given the gay community an outlet to inform. Dan Savage is a perfect example of this. He first operated on the fringe as a sex advice columnist. He is now a respected author, speaker, father, and husband. History will forever remember him for brilliant way he defined "Santorum". We will not go back into the closet... ever.
Safely up here, just below Vermont (the first civil unions) and living in Massachusetts (the first same-sex marriages), I can report that life has gone on very well, thank you. Gay friends are now living together, buying houses together, joining the PTA, and are just generally part of the life of the community. Not that they have to become all middle-class homeowners. Just that that's an option for them now. I saw "Breaking the Code" about Alan Turing,on Broadway,in 1987. The idea of his arrest for homosexuality still resonated then. The new movie with Benedict Cumberbatch will be good, I'm sure, but no one who didn't live in the time of repression can ever fully explain what it was like. Thank goodness we're moving toward the light.
Safely up here even further north, where same-sex marriage has been legal since 2003, I can also report that life has gone on very well too. Parents and others who refuse to accept their GLBT offspring are the ones who are criticized. TV and print ads feature gay couples, as well as mixed-race couples. I remember a time over 40 years ago when my close gay friends were terrified to open the door and make their way out of the closet -- let alone come out to their parents. Thankfully, except in the religious extremists' households, that is no longer the case. Eventually, due to changing demographics, it will be the religious extremists who are afraid to self-acknowledge.....and I can hardly wait!
With Liberty and Justice for All - So pleased this map indicates that marriage is finally becoming a reality for the majority of Americans who happen to fall in love. It will be even nicer when it isn't an issue anymore.
We've been in "wedding plan" mode in Pennsylvania, and I'm so happy to see gay couples planning theirs, trying on their dresses and tuxedos, venues, flowers etc. I can't wait for the day my nephew and his beloved tie the knot. He calls me "mom" and jokes that he has two moms. Took his father, Mr Nosonofmine, to come around, but they're both thrilled and members of plflag. The world's becoming a better place because of inclusiveness and equal rights.
"Nowadays, the road to marriage is no longer linear, and true love can happen more than once with love stories coming in a variety of forms," Linda Buckley, a Tiffany & Co. vice president said in a statement to ELLE.com. "The Tiffany engagement ring is the first sentence of the story that a couple will write together as they create a life that is deeply intimate and exceptional, which is the message we hope to convey through this campaign."
Tiffany & Co.'s beautiful new ad campaign featuring two men would be awesome on its own, but the jewelry's company's casting decision makes it even more special: The men aren't professional models — they're an actual gay couple living in New York, though their names haven't been released yet.
It is also a visual representation of how I should move out
ReplyDeleteof Ohio.
You know what, I don't even consider this "liberal." I've been with my husband 31 years, 32 come April, and anyone that has been together that long can tell you it's not all a bed of roses and it does take a lot of work and compromise. No one, not one of us, has the right to tell others how to live their life. Does gay marriage affect mine? Not even. Will it affect my grandchildren's lives? Yagaddabekiddinme.
ReplyDeleteGet off your damn high horse, evangelicals, and pull your nose out of the Old Testament. That's one huge log in your eye.......
Anon@4:20 said:
DeleteNo one, not one of us, has the right to tell others how to live their life.
I think this guy would disagree with you:
A family owned bakery has been ordered to make wedding cakes for gay couples and guarantee that its staff be given comprehensive training on Colorado’s anti-discrimination laws after the state’s Civil Rights Commission determined the Christian baker violated the law by refusing to bake a wedding cake for a same-sex couple.
Jack Phillips, the owner of Masterpiece Cakeshop, in Lakewood, Colorado was directed to change his store policies immediately and force his staff to attend the training sessions. For the next two years, Phillips will also be required to submit quarterly reports to the commission to confirm that he has not turned away customers based on their sexual orientation.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/06/03/baker-forced-to-make-gay-wedding-cakes-undergo-sensitivity-training-after/
orlin sellers
Give it up orlie. You are not able to understand. So what's the point?
DeleteFunny thing about folks like Mr. Sellers -- when it comes to discrimination, they seem to think that they are totally immune. They never care to look at the other side and say to themselves (because they're Xtians, doncha know) "There but for the grace of God go I". Nope, never.
DeleteMaple, the fact is that, as a special privileged group, these gay men were able to bring the force of government down on the bakers. This couple could have easily found another baker, but instead decided to persecute them.
DeleteThe last time I looked people still had the right to freedom of and from religion.
People naturally discriminate everyday. If you choose to buy a hamburger and decide to buy it at McDonalds, you have discriminated against Burger King.
Jews and Muslims discriminate against pork because it is their religious belief. Should the Pork Council be able to petition the government to FORCE them to eat pork? It's the same damn thing.
orlin sellers
@ Goofy Orlin
DeleteFirst of all, dead meat can't be discriminated against.
But people can be. So get over your white racist bigoted self, no one is going to make you marry another gay man, you can stay in the closet.
Anon @ 8:34 said: First of all, dead meat can't be discriminated against.
DeleteWe'll there ya go, by that logic neither can a cake.
orlin sellers
The cake is not being discriminated against, the people ordering the cake are, idiot. Go back to school and learn to read.
Delete8:29 The only special privileged group I can think of is
Delete,conservative christian, right winged republican, straight white, American males.
What you are not able to comprehend is Colorado, like all states, have laws. This bakery felt they didn't have to follow those laws. You know, because they are special.
Murica has all kinds of rules and regulations and laws. Don't like them? Tough shit. Or better yet, like the repubes always say, don't like it? Get the hell out.
Anon @ 9:02 said: The cake is not being discriminated against...
DeleteI wouldn't be so rude as to suggest you go back to school, but I would ask you to reread and comprehend a bit better what I wrote.
In case you're lazy like me, I'll just tell you, I said it was illogical to accuse meat or cake of being discriminatory. Hope that helps.
orlin sellers
Hey, orlin, OP here. I live in Portland, OR, and the original "we will NOT do a wedding cake" happened in Gresham, OR, a suburb about eight miles from my house.
DeleteAnswer me something, would you? What the difference between "we will not serve gays," and "we will not serve colored people" in the 60s? There is none. NONE. And I say this to you as a Christian person, you show me ONE passage in the Bible where Jesus said to. ONE.
Hey, OP
DeleteIt appears you have answered your own question.
orlin sellers
Orlin,
DeleteSo you must agree that churches do not deserve the 501C tax exempt designation, correct? This is the flip side of your discrimination argument.
If you say that christian business people should not be forced to serve those whose lifestyle or religious affiliations they do not agree with neither should the Federal Government recognize a religious organization by granting special status to them, in this case a tax-exempt status based on religion.
You can't have it both ways.
Anon @ 11:48 am said: "So you must agree that churches...
DeleteNo, I must not.
But, you must agree that stores that post : "No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service" are discriminating against barefooted, topless people.
Whereas myself, I've looked under every rock, every nook & cranny and nowhere do I find the unalienable RIGHT to service.
But Hey, that's just me.
orlin sellers
orlin, orlin, orlin......you DO realize that those signs were done for clientelle's health purposes, right? Germs are germs. I've yet to be in an establishment where your "coloreds" or "gheys" turned me into one.
Delete"Whereas myself, I've looked under every rock, every nook & cranny and nowhere do I find the unalienable RIGHT to service."
DeleteFirst off, you're looking in the wrong places.
Second, (and I know you are going to try to twist this in your own ignorant way!) it IS a right to be served in many respects. If a refusal of service is discriminatory then it is the customer's right to sue. It is a violation of LAW to be discriminatory. It is illegal to refuse housing to blacks. It is illegal to refuse a citizen the right to participate if that refusal is based on gender or orientation or other recognized forms of discrimination.
The list goes on and on. And OP in 10:08 is quite correct, despite your childish attempt at belittling her comment. There IS no difference.
I would ask a question based on how childish your responses have been to many of the accurate and insightful postings you have attacked since joining us.
How old are you? Mentally, I mean.
Thanks, Leland, OP replying at 1:27 PM.
DeleteThese are $arah's base. May God help her. LOL
Leland,
DeleteYou still haven't shown me where that unalienable right to service is.
Is it in Pizza Hut's pizza delivery service that refuses to deliver to certain areas or the cab drivers that refuse to pick or deliver in certain area?
Discrimination is freedom. It is freedom to choose. It amazes me how the pro-choice people hate choice.
Btw, the germs are in the money you hand the clerk, not on your feet.
orlin sellers
@ Orlin's comment timed at 2:53.
DeleteYes, I have. You're just too stupid to see it and too ridiculous to even think about it.
Ladies and gentleman of IM, I suggest we all ignore the idiocy of this thing calling itself Orlin. It seems to be very much like your basic run-of-the-mill Fundie who is incapable of seeing facts when slammed from all directions.
So from now on, I personally refuse to deal with it regardless of what it says. Unless it perhaps grows up.
orlin, please don your tin foil hat and you know nothing of food service whatsoever. Is Palin paying you to post (?) because I find this quite hysterical.
DeleteAin't that a hoot? Leland has taken a stand for discrimination against me. Congratulations, sir.
Deleteorlin sellers
Want to play this game, orlin? Tell us how you are being discriminated against here, we will wait, and have an honest discussion unlike your 4pee sites that delete a dissenting opinion upon posting. Grpyh hosts all opinions, one of his best traits. Proceed, sir....
DeleteWhat's wrong with the government demanding a bakery get sensitivity training when dealing with something that's legal? IF the owner doesn't like it, find a job where he doesn't deal with the public.
DeleteThanks, Anita, as you can see, he went away.
DeleteBusinesses are allowed to exist and make money in the private sector and in return, are not allowed to discriminate based on a person's race, religion, ethnicity, sexuality, etc.. It's really that simple.
DeleteIf you aren't willing to serve all kinds of people, then you don't get to be in business in this country.
It is NOT the same thing as (certain) Jews and Muslims not eating pork. What a ridiculous notion.
Now might be a good time for you all to go back to the post at 7:22 a.m. and reread all your comments in regard to the statement made which was: "No one, not one of us, has the right to tell others how to live their life."
DeleteThat was said with the pretext that gay marriage won't affect anyone's life, which I proceeded to prove was false. By each of your attacking comments you proved the point that yes, indeed, people will not be left alone and will be told what to do. There will be no free market, no freedom of association, no mutual, voluntary contracts, and everything else involved in free trade and voluntary exchanges.
Instead what you have all called for is use of government force against the baker, butcher and candlestick make.
orlin sellers
OT - Zimmerman arrested again.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/george-zimmerman-arrested-aggravated-assault-weapon-n283586
Yea, they, (the state of floriduh) won't be happy until he kills someone else standing his fucking ground. What a little pussy boy! To all of the 'good' xtians that sent him money, how do like georgie porgie so far?
DeleteI'm on my first cup of coffee so I'm feeling cynical, and my initial reaction tells me it wouldn't be happening so fast if there wasn't a buck in it somewhere for somebody.
ReplyDeleteAnon 4:20, yes it will affect your grandchildrens' lives in one respect: they'll wince at the backwardness of these times in their middle-ages when they're inviting their married gay neighbors over for poker and pizza night.
Several years ago, I watched a documentary about gay marriage, and it said that it was estimated that legalizing gay marriage would put $2 billion dollars into the economy each year, and I knew then: it will eventually become the law of the land, because the Christian righteous will always find financial profit moral.
Delete"The greatest treason- to do the right thing for the wrong reason." I don't mind them doing it for the wrong reason, because eventually it will not be remarkable, but commonplace. That is the best outcome, when gay marriage can be commonplace as hetero marriage.
4:20 here, dviaries, I look forward to that day.
DeleteA coffee toast to your and your partner! Cheers!
Ironic how religions in the US were protected from discrimination against their followers, but they refuse to allow all people those same non discrimination freedoms. Crazy to think religions were give special laws because a Catholic refused service to or refused employment to a Lutheran or Jew. We know it wasn't because of Athiests though.
ReplyDelete"Brotherhood Week." February 19-28, declared by FDR in 1943. I give you 1967 and nothing has changed.
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=184MD9S69vY
Being in my 60's I'm witnessing changes I never expected to see in my lifetime.
ReplyDeleteThe gay ghettos and bars are going away as the GBLT community assimilates into the mainstream. I'm thinking it was the internet that blew the gates wide open. AOL gained prominence on the back of their M4M Chatrooms in the 1990's.
A good friend was partner in operating a gay bar in NYC. He has the records to prove the drop in business when AOL went from a timed rate to an unlimited monthly charge.
The internet has also given the gay community an outlet to inform. Dan Savage is a perfect example of this. He first operated on the fringe as a sex advice columnist. He is now a respected author, speaker, father, and husband. History will forever remember him for brilliant way he defined "Santorum".
We will not go back into the closet... ever.
5:56 Should have never been in the closet to begin with.
DeleteI have dug the pit, anybody know where I can buy a few hungry lions?
Safely up here, just below Vermont (the first civil unions) and living in Massachusetts (the first same-sex marriages), I can report that life has gone on very well, thank you. Gay friends are now living together, buying houses together, joining the PTA, and are just generally part of the life of the community. Not that they have to become all middle-class homeowners. Just that that's an option for them now.
ReplyDeleteI saw "Breaking the Code" about Alan Turing,on Broadway,in 1987. The idea of his arrest for homosexuality still resonated then. The new movie with Benedict Cumberbatch will be good, I'm sure, but no one who didn't live in the time of repression can ever fully explain what it was like. Thank goodness we're moving toward the light.
Safely up here even further north, where same-sex marriage has been legal since 2003, I can also report that life has gone on very well too. Parents and others who refuse to accept their GLBT offspring are the ones who are criticized. TV and print ads feature gay couples, as well as mixed-race couples.
DeleteI remember a time over 40 years ago when my close gay friends were terrified to open the door and make their way out of the closet -- let alone come out to their parents. Thankfully, except in the religious extremists' households, that is no longer the case. Eventually, due to changing demographics, it will be the religious extremists who are afraid to self-acknowledge.....and I can hardly wait!
With Liberty and Justice for All - So pleased this map indicates that marriage is finally becoming a reality for the majority of Americans who happen to fall in love. It will be even nicer when it isn't an issue anymore.
ReplyDeleteWe've been in "wedding plan" mode in Pennsylvania, and I'm so happy to see gay couples planning theirs, trying on their dresses and tuxedos, venues, flowers etc. I can't wait for the day my nephew and his beloved tie the knot. He calls me "mom" and jokes that he has two moms. Took his father, Mr Nosonofmine, to come around, but they're both thrilled and members of plflag. The world's becoming a better place because of inclusiveness and equal rights.
ReplyDelete"Nowadays, the road to marriage is no longer linear, and true love can happen more than once with love stories coming in a variety of forms," Linda Buckley, a Tiffany & Co. vice president said in a statement to ELLE.com. "The Tiffany engagement ring is the first sentence of the story that a couple will write together as they create a life that is deeply intimate and exceptional, which is the message we hope to convey through this campaign."
Deletehttp://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/tiffany-ad-gay-couple
Tiffany & Co.'s beautiful new ad campaign featuring two men would be awesome on its own, but the jewelry's company's casting decision makes it even more special: The men aren't professional models — they're an actual gay couple living in New York, though their names haven't been released yet.
Deletewww.cosmopolitan.com/style-beauty/fashion/news/a35153/tiffanys-new-engagement-ring-ad-gay-couple
Fuck liberals and fuck fags!
ReplyDeleteAs Rodney King said: "Why can't we all just get along!"
ReplyDeleteThe world would be a much better place.