The once-dominant Catholic Church in Ireland was trying to come to terms Sunday with an overwhelming vote in favour of gay marriage, saying it needed a "new language" to connect to people.
As jubilant "Yes" supporters nursed their hangovers after partying late into the night following Saturday's referendum result, the faithful attended mass to hear their priests reflect on the new social landscape in Ireland.
"The Church has to find a new language which will be understood and heard by people," Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin, a senior Irish cleric, told reporters after mass at the city's St Mary's Pro-Cathedral.
"We have to see how is it that the Church's teaching on marriage and family is not being received even within its own flock."
He added: "There's a growing gap between Irish young people and the Church and there's a growing gap between the culture of Ireland that's developing and the Church."
Yeah don't you just hate it when the people you have carefully manipulated into fearfully following your primitive doctrines start thinking for themselves?
Gotta love this.
Amazing. Sounds exactly like the Republicans... "it's not our backwards, failed ideas that are wrong, it's just that we need spiffy new catch phrases to sell it to the kids."
ReplyDeleteSo basically, the church is looking for it's Frank Luntz.
I didn't realize until this last weekend that divorce has only been legal there since 1995!
ReplyDeleteRegarding that--my Irish grandparents found themselves in a very awkward position. My grandmother had an annulment from the Catholic church (her father had forced her to marry at 16, an older man who beat her). She and my grandfather found a priest who agreed to marry them in the church; however, since civil divorce was not legal, their marriage was not recognized by the state.
DeleteSo, in the eyes of the Catholic church--yes. In the eyes of the government--no.
This odd situation caused them all sorts of practical problems, as you might imagine.
They were far from the only ones in such a position, too.
This caused them all sorts of legal and practical problems in their daily life, as you can imagine.
And that was in the 1920's. 1995??? Jesus.
Perfect time to insert the Nelson GIF from the Simpsons: "Ha,Ha!"
ReplyDeleteIf they've lost the youth their church is dead, not dying DEAD. Might as well sell the artifacts because you;re going to need the cash, Romans.
ReplyDeleteI do LOVE it!!!
ReplyDeletethis Irish vote is upsetting to the anti-gay people in America, because if Ireland can't hold back the tide, then how can the poor repressed Christians here stop what's happening?
ReplyDeleteI, lowly Atheist that I am, am overjoyed by this turn of events.
The Catholic Church can fight 'em or it can join 'em. I suggest it do the latter if it ultimately wants to survive in Ireland. But the battle for equality and justice is far from won and there is still a long way to go before that happens. In Ireland, a woman has only been able to get a therapeutic abortion to save her life since 2013. Prior to that, Ireland chose the lives of unborn fetuses, even unviable ones, over the lives of their mothers. Even now the law, which is also supposed to apply to suicidal women as well, has not been consistently applied. Ireland has a big, big problem regarding women's reproductive rights (yeah, I know... the U.S. doesn't have any room to talk), which to me is a much more urgent issue than gay marriage. So while I am celebrating this ruling, Ireland still has a long way to go to throw off the shackles of the Catholic Church.
ReplyDeletethank you so much for this. beautifully stated, and so very important to remember! I've been protecting women's right to birth control, abortion, and bodily autonomy for several decades, and you message needs to keep being repeated. thank you.
DeleteHuzzah! Time Magazine had "Is God Dead?" on its cover in fucking 1966 and I feel like I've nearly drowned in the reactionary backlash ever since.
ReplyDeleteThis is going to raise hell with all the Irish Catholic themed TV shows. Next we're gonna see one of the kids on Blue Bloods come out over the family dinner. My money is on the youngest son or the attorney.
ReplyDeleteAround 90% of the primary schools in Ireland are controlled by the Catholic Church. This "YES" vote highlights a systemic failure to indoctrinate that was decades in the making. The Catholic Church sees every "YES" voter as an economic disaster because contributions to the church melting away.
ReplyDeleteThe Catholic Church will back ANY "article of faith" only as long as the cash keeps rolling in. The Catholic Church, first and foremost, is business enterprise in desperate need of a viable business model.
Personally, the next item I'd like to see crush the Catholic Church in Ireland is the end of the despicable pretense of exporting their abortions to the UK and the rest of Europe while basking in their supposed moral superiority.
It's Ireland's Quebecois moment. "Tabarnak!!!"
DeleteWhat 500 years or so of complete control over the social and political world is coming to an end? Damn, if they want to keep the Pope and Bishops in their fancy gold threaded slippers and robes, they're gonna have to start selling off some of those assets before too long. LMAO.
ReplyDeleteNo, they don't. They have enough cash on hand they could make very conservative investments in stocks and bonds worldwide and not only generate enough revenue to keep operating but probably to continue into the future without having to accept any donations whatsoever. They could live off the investments alone.
DeleteThey'll never sell anything. But I can sure see them building a few museums for all the art they've amassed and charging a wad of cash for admittance. I'm sure they already make money on the sales of DVD tours of the Sistine Chapel, etc.
In one church I was in in Southern Germany you were not allowed to take your own photos, you had to buy copies of the professional photos taken of the church. At an exorbitant mark up.
The Catholic Church will never go bankrupt. But it has the financial power to control all of the stock markets around the globe.
Great thanks is surely due to the internet and it's ability to let people from every corner of the planet compare notes, shake off commonly believed bullshit, and find reason.
ReplyDelete""The Church has to find a new language which will be understood and heard by people," Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin, a senior Irish cleric, told reporters after mass at the city's St Mary's Pro-Cathedral."
ReplyDeleteJust as a random thought, they might try preaching love and acceptance and compassion and generosity of spirit and the value of humans who aren't still fetuses (fetii?). Crazy, I know.
Ivy, I love your random thought!
DeleteSo true. And, for something revolutionary, a few women in positions of power in the hierarchy would do wonders.
DeleteFor starters. Then move on to intelligent conversations about faith and spirituality that aren't mired in dogma.
DeleteWho knew Ireland would be the first?
ReplyDeleteI was thinking it would be one of the Scandinavian countries or even Germany.
Me. So glad the Irish have shown what they are made of--a literate, brilliant people.
DeleteIt may be that the real message of Christ's teachings is that people, all of them, should be respected and allowed to live their lives as best they can. "Love your neighbor as yourself." Not a word in that statement that means forcing your neighbor to deny his/her basic human nature. I think the Catholic Church hierarchy needs to understand people in general better and Christ's teachings better too.
ReplyDeleteBeaglemom
Any church which truly followed Christ's radical teachings would not be able to survive as an organization. While I respect Christ's message, I feel nothing but contempt for all organized expressions of "Christianity." The more the Republicans push again my fundamental human rights, the more contemptuous I become.
DeletePeople should understand, what this really means is that for years all those faithfully attending Mass and giving good attention to the open demonstration of their Catholic faith were really writing letters, or travelogues, or whatever, n their heads. I know that's what kept me sane until I could break free of my parents.
ReplyDeleteWhen people are downtrodden, they cling to their religion because they quite literally don't have anything else. Ireland was a poor country with not much to offer for a long while.
ReplyDeleteThat changed a long time ago. I am 54 and I honestly don't know too many regular church-goers here.. They lost a lot of the old people with the scandals.
The young don't believe a word of what is being preached to them.That is if you take them to mass - which most people don't.
Most of us just live along the lines, live and let live.
We may be green, but we are not stupid!
I forgot to add that we all voted yes in my family.
ReplyDeleteYou really can't make this shit up. After tens of thousands of priestly child sexual assaults came to light, the criminal enterprise that facilitated the abuse and kept it and the victims under its thumb, now believes it has a language problem? Dare I suggest that they might have to look a little deeper?
ReplyDeleteDare to -- and you will get excommunicated.
DeleteThe catholic church is stuck in the Dark Ages, when it did so many horrible things. The book they push was written in the stone age. The current Pope is the best they've ever had, which really doesn't say much.
ReplyDeleteThere really is nothing in any religion that truly pertains to the world of today. Religion is about CONTROL. The internet has left religion impotent.
I really have to tip my hat to the people of Ireland. The Irish Catholic branch of Catholicism has an extremely high rate of devout believers. Let's hope this trend continues a domino effect in every country. (I know, a girl can dream, but I honestly don't see the reason for their irrational fear of same sex marriage)... look what a great job us hetero's have done with marriage and monogamy.
ReplyDeleteThe Catholic church was SHOCKED at the expose of child rape with priests! Started when Alaska Governor Frank Murkowski reversed the Statute of limitations on rape!
ReplyDeleteTime for another Pope Ratzi update.
ReplyDeleteHundreds of child victims. Again. Did the pope AND the pope's brother know?
"BERLIN — At least 231 children who sang in a boys’ choir led for 30 years by the brother of former Pope Benedict XVI were abused over a period of almost four decades, a lawyer investigating reports of wrongdoing said Friday.
The lawyer, Ulrich Weber, who was commissioned by the choir to look into accusations of beatings, torture or sexual abuse, said he thought that the actual abuse was even more widespread."
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/09/world/europe/over-200-members-of-german-choir-were-abused-investigator-says.html
Despite the continuing denials the question is who knew and what did they know?
"Last week, Ulrich Weber, a lawyer commissioned by the choir to look into accusations of beatings, torture and sexual abuse, presented his initial findings, based on more than 140 interviews, roughly half of them with victims, and an examination of archives. Mr. Weber estimated that from 1953 to 1992, every third student at a school attached to the choir suffered some kind of physical abuse. He said the mistreatment at institutions linked to the Domspatzen included at least 40 cases of sexual violence.
If true, the findings again raise the question of whether Benedict, the pope emeritus, who taught theology in Regensburg from 1969 to 1976, had any knowledge of the abuse taking place in the choir that his brother directed. During his tenure as pope, Benedict called the problem of sexual abuse by clergymen a “sin inside the church,” and met with victims’ groups, but never directly addressed questions of how he handled sexual abuse in his previous posts, as prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith at the Vatican, and as archbishop of Munich in 1980, when a pedophile priest was moved to his diocese for treatment."
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/11/world/europe/pope-benedicts-brother-says-he-was-unaware-of-abuse.html
Could anyone doubt that strong measures would have been taken by the Pope if he knew that there was such a scandal in a boys choir run by his brother for 30 years?? Certainly if anyone in power had known what was going on they could have transferred the perpetrators so they could have had fresh start where no one knew what crimes and abuses they had already committed.
It should be certain that if the pope knew he would have taken appropriate action at that time. That may not be the case.