Just a few days before the Iowa caucuses, Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton stressed to voters in Des Moines just how unfeasible she considers her opponent Bernie Sanders' plan to pursue a single-payer health care system.
"I want you to understand why I am fighting so hard for the Affordable Care Act," she said at Grand View University after hearing from a woman who spoke about her daughter receiving cancer treatment thanks to the health care law. "I don't want it repealed, I don't want us to be thrown back into a terrible, terrible national debate. I don't want us to end up in gridlock. People can't wait!"
She added, "People who have health emergencies can't wait for us to have a theoretical debate about some better idea that will never, ever come to pass."
You ever take a shot to the solar plexus, which knocks all of the air out of your lungs and makes it hard to take a breath?
Yeah, well that is how I reacted to hearing this.
I pride myself on being somewhat of a pragmatist these days, but I am sometimes a starry eyed pragmatist and I have long hoped that we were indeed moving toward a single payer system in this country.
If that dream is indeed dead, and Hillary Clinton SHOULD the person who would know best about that, then I am going to need a couple of days to mourn that loss.
What do you guys think?
Is it possible that Obamacare, with several more tweaks down the line, really the best we can hope for?
I think she likely is right. There are simply so many huge, long-established health insurance providers, and what's going to happen to them?
ReplyDeleteSurely they're not just going to go quietly into that good night.
Just. Think. How many decades has it taken to get us to his point? The President is correct when he talks about Incremental steps. Idealism, while admirable, is not a strategy, persistence in the face of an unreasoning adversary I.e.Congress, is
Deletethe onlly solution.
It's not about the health insurers because they would still have a role- in the United States people with money are still treated as though they are extra worthy because of their money, and the rich need to be made to feel superior, so there would be elite health insurance for (to quote Trump) "quality" people.
DeleteIf every other country on the face of the planet can have single payer, then I say bullshit!
DeleteYes we can
She simply cannot let Bernie outdo her so she's going to poo-poo on his single payer parade.
It's called voting smart people in and voting at every election that comes around. Stop complaining, start doing and stay plugged in. Things will only change if we make it change.
So Hillary is wrong! As a matter of fact, I'm willing to bet if she wins the nomination, that is going to be one of her biggest priorities while in office.
I'm sure 20 or so years ago people said the same things about tobacco companies.
DeleteI love Bernie, but I think Hillary is correct. Sadly, as with all things political, it is all about the money.
ReplyDeleteDamn straight it is all about the money. And if Hillary is elected it will continue to be all about the money. Now is the time for change. We're not going to find another guy who is willing to take on the big banks for a very very long time and by then we will all be serfs!
Deletehttps://berniesanders.com/yes-glass-steagall-matters-here-are-5-reasons-why/
8:29 has never heard of Elizabeth Warren.
DeleteI think she is correct as well. If the GOP is so callous that not one candidate has even mentioned Flint, how would we ever get enough of them to agree with a catostrophic change like single payer? We will all be drinking lead if we do not have a massive infrastructure investment with the next administration. Anyone think the GOP gives a rat's ass about that? Hillary tells it like it is.
ReplyDeleteWe only had two options here in AK, Moda and Blue Cross. The State is kicking Moda out effective at next year's open enrollment. We'll have only Blue Cross, which many of us can't afford, even their Bronze plans. Talk about "single payer" we're going to have that in AK soon, meaning that we'll have a single choice in whom to pay, or go without.
ReplyDeleteWhy are they kicking out Moda?
DeleteSomething called the Alaska Insurance Review board isn't happy with Moda's bottom line.
DeleteI live in Alaska and have cancer. We have a private policy through MODA. Last month our premium went from $1900 a month to just under $3,000 a month! Just my husband and myself) We make more that the ACA plan allows so we are forced to get our own policy. Now with Moda being kicked out of the state we will be forced to take out a Blue Cross policy and Lord only knows what that will cost. I am really happy the ACA has helped so many people, but for those of us who make a little more money, these payments are just killing us.
DeleteIn order to have single payor health system, every Democrat would have to get out and vote in very local, state and congressional election to stack the all the elected position seats with liberals and centrists in order to have a liberal government and supreme court to even give single payor a chance of happening. Do you think that will ever happen? Because only then would we have the critical mass necessary to move the enormous hurdles in its path.
ReplyDeleteAnd there you have it.
DeleteYou barely get the Democrats out to vote for a Presidential year so how do we get the same turn out in an off-year election. 2:48 is correct. We would have to have massive turn out every year in every election to get the gerrymandered bastard Republicans out of the House.
DeleteAnon 2:48p,
DeleteSorry for repeating what you said. I was so agitated by the first response that I didn't take the time to read the whole thread. Glad to know someone else shares my sentiment.
Still believe single payer is the best. The Right would not ever allow it and the ACA may very well be history and if they can't kill it they will do second best and never improve it.
ReplyDeleteI certainly will vote for her if that is who the nominee is. However she is a corporista and I think behind her position is some of that for sure.
I certainly think she is correct for the short term (say, 10-15 yes) but the ACA is a big step from where we were under El Arbusto's administration. I think she is just being realistic.
ReplyDeleteWhat do I think? I've had Kaiser for 33 years because all I could afford, even working for city government. All well and good until my husband got a chronic illness ten years ago and they "manage" him, more pills and more pills that do nothing. It manifested itself in his brain, and the "expert" doctor patted him on his shoulder and said, "you're just unlucky."
ReplyDeleteOne of the head neuro doctors, now OHSU, said, this is what Kaiser does and why he left. They don't fix people, just watch their @ss and drug. So weak, he wouldn't have made it off the table is their excuse and why they stay out of court being sued to hell and back.
Meanhile I watch these horrible attacks that my husband goes through every damned day of his life and stuck. It is the most demeaning thing ever and trying to be the constant encouraging light to him and, for all those against Obamacare, eff you. Seriously.
I'm truly sorry that you have to go through this. You're doing a remarkable job.
DeleteThank you for sharing this post - truly powerful. My sister is going through something similar. I copied your post and sent to her telling her she needs to find someone that is willing to "FIX" her, not just prescribe drugs and shooo her on her way! All my best for you and your family.
DeleteClinton is right. For the foreseeable future, as long as republicans control the House or Senate, there is in fact no way to get single-payer health care.
ReplyDeleteEven if Democrats gain control of both chambers and the White House, it would be extremely difficult.
Google the failure of Vermont's single-payer plan. Be sure to read a progressive view, written by someone who wanted it to succeed.
Maybe we can get to single payer some day, and we should keep working on getting it. In the meantime, we have to keep tweaking and improving the ACA/Obamacare. The more people keep seeing improvements to their health care, the more open they will be to even better ways of getting their health care.
I agree with you completely, Nefer. I am also banking on the improvements achieved and to be achieved from the ACA as being the basis for something more substantial in the future. Above all, Americans are going to have to be willing to pay higher taxes.
DeleteBeaglemom
I think that someday (maybe not for a loooong time) single payer will happen in this country.
ReplyDeleteAnd, like every other positive social change, conservatives will insist they were for it from the very beginning.
Because they think we have always been at war with EastAsia.
Hillary had zero accomplishments and little knowledge. However I agree with this.
ReplyDeleteRight @3:04. She graduated from Yale with a law degree, was the First Lady of Arkansas, then of Our Nation, then a U.S. Senator, and then Secretary of State. So true. She's SUCH a slacker.
DeleteRight. WTF have YOU done?
DeleteI.D.I.O.T.
DeleteAnon at 3:04 pm, and exactly what "accomplishments" can Sarah Palin point to? Or, for that matter, Donald Trump? Or Marco Rubio who doesn't bother to vote in the Senate? Or Ted Cruz whose only claim to (very questionable fame) was the shutting down of the federal government at a cost of billions of dollars?
DeleteBeaglemom
Got to hand it to you, Gryph, you DO let all opinions through!
DeleteRiding on coattails 3:16... riding on coattails.
DeleteI agree that there are huge hurdles -- as big as the hurdles to restoring more equitable distribution of wealth in this country.
ReplyDeleteBut to say it will never, ever happen is to say we will never, ever have as good a system as most European countries do. Could that be true? Do we have that little faith and hope in ourselves?
I think Hillary has been burned by her experiences. Maybe Bernie has too much idealism and hope, but without that, we will never get anywhere except status quo or down.
Practicality or idealism? When is there too much of one and too little of the other? I guess the election result will tell us.
I'm putting my money on Bernie.
We will have the same devastating shifts as we move from oil to alternate energy. Lots of resistance in THAT system. Ditto moving from war expenses to peace expenses: lots of reluctant losers of money in that shift
Personally, I'm burned out on Bernie. I heard his answer in the last forum on how he'd pay for it. He had no real answer. It was a vague wave at taxing Wall Street. #BurnedOutOnBernie
DeleteBetter hashtag: #BernedOut
DeleteHillary Clinton, from 2013 to 2015, made $2,847,000 from 13 paid speeches to the healthcare industry.
Delete#Hillarycorp
just follow the money!
Bernie Bro Problems - http://www.buzzfeed.com/evanmcsan/the-bernie-bros#.ui4J055O5z
DeleteBernie Bro Problems - http://www.buzzfeed.com/evanmcsan/the-bernie-bros#.ui4J055O5z
DeleteWe have the fight of our lives ahead to save the Affordable Care Act. It may be held together with chewing gum and duct tape, but it is providing insurance to millions who would not have it otherwise. Talk of single payer in the face of a Republican majority in both houses of Congress is crazy.
ReplyDeleteIf "business-as-usual" leaders prevail, I see a new option re healthcare: we just skip it.
ReplyDeleteAs income/wealth becomes more unequal, and as more and more families can no longer afford ANY extras, healthcare premiums will be unpaid. We will stop thinking insurance is affordable. Sure, that means no help when we are sick, Yes, it means will not treat our fixable health problems We'll revert to the old days of just getting sicker and dying. So much cheaper. And who cares, anyway? Not the .01% who are eager to get even richer.
I'm almost there now.
I don't see the glass as half empty, nor do I see it as half full. I just see a glass I'm going to have to wash. That makes me a realist. So I'm going to have to agree with Hillary on this one. As long as Citizen's United is a law of the land, we will never get single payer. Insurance companies (disclaimer - I used to work for one) will never let that happen.
ReplyDeleteI guess the question is why is healthcare so unattainable for so many in this country, yet you can buy a gun anywhere anytime.
ReplyDeleteAs I already mentioned on another thread, Bernie finally said his health care plan depends on raising taxes on the middle class.
ReplyDeleteNancy Pelosi said no way are the Democrats going to help him.
As far as I am concerned that will be the end of Bernie's plan.
I think Hillary is right, how many years have they been fighting just to get ACA passed and how many times have the republicans tried to repeal it.
I think it is the best we can do for now and believe me I am not thrilled with ACA. I have BCBS of Mich , had to change my plan this year, paying more and getting basically nothing. I will be paying out of pocket for everything since I never meet the deductible.
However it is time to move on, the infrastructure in the country is falling apart and needs to be dealt with.
I would much rather have slow (and then quicker) improvements on the ACA than get into a zero sum fight at this point.
DeleteRight now, there are republicans who have to admit that ACA works for them and that they don't want it taken away. These are small but important steps. We won't even come close to single payer without the support of the majority of Americans.
We really haven't tried! There has been no one willing to champion single payer. It is NOT dead. How can you give up before we even TRULY try!?
ReplyDeleteI fear that Hillary Clinton is being perfectly honest. I also think that, over time, the American population will become less fearful of "socialized medicine" which is the bugaboo that is always brought out in any discussion of single payor health care. Americans simply do not understand and do not want to understand that the government should spend less on the military and that increased taxes should be paid so that we have a more just society, one that would include universal health care, childcare accessibility for all, good educational facilities all over and much more. Hillary Clinton is being brutally honest and very pragmatic. Something that would be nice to hear from Bernie Sanders. I still cannot fathom how Planned Parenthood and Human Rights Watch is part of the "Establishment" but his membership in that most elite club, the US Congress, for years and years does not make him part of the "Establishment" also. Can anyone imagine a GOP candidate being as forthright as Hillary Clinton?
DeleteBeaglemom
Many people want single payer healthcare but when it comes to getting involved to get it done, nobody lifts a finger. People think if you get out and vote every 4 years, that should be enough. How often have you not voted in state and local elections. That is where most of the national candidates come up through the system.
DeleteVermont tried.
DeleteAre you kidding? Single Payer WAS the ACA until the GOP killed it. The Heritage Foundation plan was single payer. Once Obama was on board, the GOP could not have that, so they fussed and fumed and tweaked and asked their corporate masters what was acceptable, and that's what we got, while they withheld their votes in hypocritical protest. THAT is what the new President will be dealing with.
DeleteWe don't have single payer because the "health insurance" companies control politics. They had the money to extract the "compromise" of ACA from the politicians. The health companies' investor get rich, because that is the way ACA is setup.
ReplyDeleteHillary Clinton is right. The health insurance companies in this country will never, never, never walk away from the insane profits they get from controlling health insurance in this country.
Think the NRA is powerful? They are total wimps compared to the health insurance industry.
Health insurance companies control politics because their oponents are apathetic and don't vote.
Delete@3:55 Gee, it almost seems like you think ordinary voters have more control than hugely rich powerful lobbies. There's a bridge in Brooklyn for sale, I hear.
DeleteHealthcare owns the politicians that take their lobbyists money.
DeleteHillary Clinton, from 2013 to 2015, made $2,847,000 from 13 paid speeches to the healthcare industry.
Anonymous5:02 PM,
DeleteThey do. Corporations have lots of money but their leadership still only have one vote each. If people took as much interest in their country as the do in the Kardashians, the people in office would actually represent the majority. As it is, the people in office represent the most politically active segment of the population - lobbyists and evangelicals.
OT...60 Minutes had a segment about core samples taken by Greenland. Showed how fast and accelerating global warming is.
ReplyDeleteWas just reading a geology book last night about how during the Cretaceous period Alaska had a climate similar to what is now the American South. Things change, climates change, difference is we humans get to be around for it this time. Should be fun. Children being born right will know a much different world coastline than what maps show now, that's for sure.
DeleteJust like anything else there will be unanticipated consequences, most likely rapidly evolving diseases becoming more prevalent in all parts of the world and massive food and water shortages.
Already massive die offs of sea creatures and birds dependent on ocean resources are happening, we've had an unprecedented die-off of murres up here in AK this winter, and that was only due to a temporary sea temperature increase which decimated their food source, and not the more permanent warming that is to come.
It will be interesting to watch and be part of that's for sure.
Not all European countries have single payer, but they do have universal coverage. IIRC, Switzerland was the last to cover everyone - I think in the 90's. Insurance companies continued to exist, but the profit permitted was restricted to a very low rate.
ReplyDeleteIn Australia, everyone has coverage, but many people choose to buy insurance to have greater choice of hospitals, doctors, and various extras such as private rooms.
So, yes, we can have universal coverage while allowing insurance companies to exist. It's going to take while, but the ACA was a huge step considering where we started. Let's keep moving forward!
It's not necessarily a choice of hospitals or doctors that private insurers get, it's things like ACCESS to private hospitals, which is fine in theory but so many of our public hospital beds are taken by private patients whose private hospitals don't want them because their case isn't well-rebated by the government. Not a lot of people know why waiting lists in public hospitals are so long, that's one of the reasons, also they're used as nursing homes for bedridden patients who aren't sick.
DeleteDon't get me started on Australian's "universal health care" - or what little of it we still have left, even before the Right-wing government is finished with destroying it.
America needs to fess up to making Cancer!
Deletethey make sooo much money off it! notice how now the tone is 'we are on the verge of a cure'? roll of eyes! population control?
Woo, woo, 8:08.
Deletewith the recent Flint water ordeal I am beginning to be believe it 808! More like a negligence that causes cancers! Oh we forgot to tell you (fill in the blank)
DeleteI think she is absolutely correct that a decent healthcare law will never, ever pass. Look at those tiny-brained specimens still trying to repeal the ACA.
ReplyDeleteAnd her plan to hang on to every bit of progress and build on that as you're able is a sound plan.
What's all the fuss about?
This is where I'm leaning, unfortunately. I'm a little more optimistic, but it won't come for years and years and me and my preexisting conditions and my daughter's chronic illness can't wait.
Delete"and I and my preexisting condition...can't wait"
Delete[sorry for that horrible grammatical typo]
The current ACA will cover pre-existing conditions, that was one of the major caveats, that you can't be turned down for pre-existing conditions.
DeleteThe loss to our economy from privatized health care, nationally and at the household level, is tremendous. Insurance companies and doctors who want to get rich, not to mention hospital administrators, suck money right out of your checkbook. Add on to that what oil companies extract from our checkbooks and you see why so few will ever be able to afford retirement. We are being driven to poverty by these corporations and the Congress that they own. Hillary is part of the system now. Bernie has appeal because he speaks to the heart of the best that we think America can be.
ReplyDeleteI really didn't interpret her to mean we can't ever have it. I interpreted it to mean that Bernie's promises can't possibly come to pass right now, so stay the course and keep building on what we've got. Look at how President Obama has struggled to get any compromises at all. Bernie would have zero chance.
ReplyDeleteWhat a load of crap is Hillary Clinton. The 1993 Health Security Act she pushed was single payer. I think the question for Hillary is why she's given up.
ReplyDeleteAchieving single payer is one of the goals to complete the promise of the New Deal and the Great Society. This statement should disqualify her as a Democratic candidate.
What a load of crap is your post, 4.14PM.
DeleteMaybe because she's actually aware of what bastards republican reps are? She's even experienced it up close and personal.
DeleteHillary is part of the 1% problem not, the solution!
DeleteWhat are YOU doing to help the effort, if it's so easy?
Deletewhining...can't you hear that dull noise?
DeleteMy heart is with Bernie, but I don't think America is ready for Democratic Socialism. I support Bernic because I want to see his message added to the political dialogue. Perhaps in future generations, we will move in Bernie's direction. I hope so, but I am old and won't last that long. It's my kids I worry about.
ReplyDeleteThat's why Bernie says we need a revolution: tax the rich more; wrest healthcare away from the insurance lobbyists; cut off income for the war profiteers.
ReplyDeleteOr we can just roll over and be dead.
Vote for Hillary!
DeleteHillary Clinton, from 2013 to 2015, made $2,847,000 from 13 paid speeches to the healthcare industry.
Bernie Bro problems -http://www.buzzfeed.com/evanmcsan/the-bernie-bros#.ui4J055O5z
DeleteAnd how is he going to accomplish any of that? He's not accomplished a whole lot as a voting Senator...what will change if he is in the Oval office...he will not be King Sanders.
DeleteAnonymous5:25 PM,
DeleteSo WHAT? You expect her to turn down teh speaking fees if she can command them? You actually think $2mil is a lot in 3 years? What planet are you on?
You can't hurry single payer. Baby steps. ACA's working well for a lot of folks, some tweaks here and there, competition between providers isn't a bad thing. On a personal note, I'm going through an issue I had before and the ACA is saving me money and worry so I can focus on getting better. I've got three college kids on our plan, and the ACA has taken a lot of the burden off my mind.
ReplyDeleteStop mourning and get with the program. As long as we have Republicans in this country, single payer is a non-starter. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/18/opinion/health-reform-realities.html What we have is the best we are going to do.
ReplyDeleteRethuglicans are just one part of the problems of corporate politicians, and any democrats voting for the wall street darling, Hillary is worse than a rethuglican!
DeleteGive me a break, 5:24.
DeleteIf Sanders loses the primary, will you vote for Trump or will you stay home. We've been baaaad little boys and girls and deserve to be punished with a shiny, new GOP president. That'll teach us!
Anonymous5:24 PM
DeleteIf there is anything I despise, it's people who take ideology to the point of lunacy and and counterproductivity. You go ahead and don't vote or vote republican. I hope you like what you get.
Look at this article. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/28/single-payer-trouble/
ReplyDeleteObamacare is merely the first step toward single payer. Bernie is expanding the size of the "Overton window," which is the range of ideas the public is willing to debate in political discourse. So far, the debate is all centered on the right-wing end of the political spectrum. Yes, Obamacare is really a very conservative plan. Remember the public option that had to be scrapped to get what turned out to be Obamacare? If we did have a public option, that would have created a program that would have sat squarely in the center of the political spectrum. Scrapping it was the only way to get something, rather than nothing. So Bernie is expanding to the left the political discussion--not just on healthcare, but on almost all matters. We have been so entrenched in far right and center right ideas, since Reagan, even among Democrats, that the conversation needs to head in the other direction, just for the sake of balance. I spent a year living in Germany while in college, and the political perspective I got there is this: socialism is in the middle, Communism is far left, and pure capitalism is far right. If others--and I'm talking about you who read this blog and have commented above--could see how we as Americans are really so much more narrow-minded politically than the rest of the world, we wouldn't think positive, Progressive goals are so extreme. Bernie is not extreme. We have been conditioned as Americans, for God's sake, to accept so little for ourselves and cede all the wealth to those at the top. This is NOT acceptable. We NEED people like Bernie to get us to expand that window of political discourse or we will never see what we truly want in our country. And yes, we must VOTE! We do need a total revolution (which must start with getting money out of politics which 90% of Americans agree with) and that ain't gonna happen without an expansion of our own expectations!
ReplyDeleteGreat post 4:40!
DeleteSemi-OT
ReplyDeleteThe Iowa poll-guru who's never wrong has Hillary winning the caucuses. That means that Bernie has to win big in NH, otherwise we won't be having any more of these Clinton-Sanders conversations.
Hilary knows that campaigning on a single-payer stance will reduce her numbers. That is the one issue that most makes a candidate look like a socialist. Once she is in office, she may entertain the idea again. She has to appear centrist to get elected.
ReplyDeleteHillary Clinton, from 2013 to 2015, made $2,847,000 from 13 paid speeches to the healthcare industry.
DeleteI'll vote for any candidate who promises to stop people from posting the same exact thing over and over again in a comment thread.
Deletehttp://www.buzzfeed.com/evanmcsan/the-bernie-bros#.ui4J055O5z
DeleteHey, 5:19..did SHE take the money, or did it go the the Foundation, which is what I suspect. Then the Foundation funneled it to people in need.
DeleteI imagine a lot of people thought we could never get rid of slavery. Or never thought that women would ever get the right to vote. It was never easy, but it always took belief that change was going to come, as long as you kept your eye on the goal and kept fighting for it. Nothing ever changes by giving up.
ReplyDeleteWhat pothead my age (59) would have believed that weed would be legal for recreational use in some states in our lifetimes?
DeleteThere is a Santa Clause, Mr. (William) Gibson :)
I'm only a few years younger than you and I knew it would happen in my lifetime.
DeleteUnlike single payer healthcare, recreational legalization has a great deal of support across political boundaries.
well if they grow some good weed the USA won't need healthcare! just kidding! sorta! there was a case that a cancer patient was so nauseated a friend turned her onto some pot that was like a paste? anyways chemo went better and after that they tested for where the surgery was to occur next? what? the tumor was GONE! how did that happen? cannabis in the body?
DeleteRead this as well. Sadly, single payer is an unfeasible pipe dream. http://www.vox.com/2016/1/28/10858644/bernie-sanders-kenneth-thorpe-single-payer
ReplyDeletehttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/12/03/harkin-we-should-have-done-single-payer-health-reform/
ReplyDeleteI do believe that we will see single payer healthcare in my life time but the first step towards that (other than the ACA) will be political reform and that first step has to be to repeal Citizens United. As long as corporations (read insurance companies) have the financial clout they will make sure that their industry will be protected. Bernie Sanders IS the man to get this initiated as President and Elizabeth Warren is the one to continue the fight.
ReplyDeleteSheesh
Citizens United, is working just fine for Hillary Clinton!!!
DeleteSheesh yourself, you Berniebro!
Medicare is fucking single payer. I don't hear any retired Republicans bitching about it and screaming for its privatization. To the contrary, they're like "hands off my Medicare".
ReplyDeleteAnd that is the way it will change...we will slowly lower the age and limits on Medicare, and people are already paying for it through payroll taxes. THAT is the answer, and that will happen.
Delete5:30, you are wrong about that. Republicans first tried to prevent Medicare and have been trying to privatize it ever since it passed.
Deletewell then how about everyone get the 'white house' plan that those $$$ senators have?
DeleteI didn't think so!
Funny, isn't it, that there's always plenty of money to pay for bombing and invading other countries.
ReplyDeleteIt has nothing to do with money, obviously.
DeleteLet's not forget, Hillary led a charge for universal health care way back when she was First Lady. Sadly, the woman knows from whence she speaks on this issue.
ReplyDeleteHillary Takes Millions in Campaign Cash From ‘Enemies’ -
DeleteClinton named the drug and insurance industries among her “enemies,” but has accepted millions in donations from them.
Bottom line: Two-faced Hillary Clinton is looking out for the drug and insurance industries -- NOT us. NEVER us.
Hillary was the first hog to the trough when the healthcare lobbyist showed up!
DeleteHillary Clinton Gets $13 Million From Health Industry, Now Says Single-Payer Will "Never, Ever Come To Pass"
http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/hillary-clinton-gets-13-million-health-industry-now-says-single-payer-will-never
Hillary is for Hillary making corporate money, not the people US of A!
Why has Bernie asked his male supporters to please behave better online? http://www.buzzfeed.com/evanmcsan/the-bernie-bros#.ui4J055O5z
DeleteBeing Alaskan and having been a reader of IM for the last 8 or 9 yrs, I think I should not have anyone here complaining that I'm posting my opinion.
DeleteI know Gryphon has been supportive of Hillary, but I feel he all dems need information to make informed decisions.
I know there are several of us Sanders supporters here, not surprising as this is a liberal site.
As for the Berniebro stereotyping that really makes you look quite immature.
10:41 - Oh, do you think your actions might have something to do with it? You are hurting your candidate with ad hominem attacks of Hillary supporters. Go read the 4 part series on Bernie at Shakesville.com. Then we can "talk."
DeleteBerniebros refers to a very specific (and loud) subset of Sanders supporters and it is an apropos description.
DeleteRead the article about Berniebros. If you aren't one of them, you have nothing to worry about...except for the fact that they are turning of potential voters left and right.
DeleteThis article is exactly why Hillary is not the candidate for America. She lacks the vision and the drive to bring us into the 21st century in alignment with the rest of the civilized world. We are the only industrialized nation that does not have a nationalized medical system, we pay 65% more than any other nation for less service and care. We pay 50% more for prescriptions and get less results. It is far past time the federal government take charge of this situation and fix the obscene fact that 65% of all bankruptcies are from medical expenses, and many of those have insurance.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that Hillary has decided that single payer is out is more than enough reason not to vote for her, She is far to small a thinker to lead us, and need I say it, she has swallowed the insurance companies line of bullshit as fast as she took their donations to her campaign..
Rick
And just how is she or Bernie supposed to do that? We are not electing them King. You need a bill that will pass Congress, and half of Congress has convinced themselves and more than half the country that ANY nationalized anything is evil. So tell me why she should spend her time in office beating her head against the wall, getting rid of the ACA, and starting over? Bernie has this grand plan, that will NEVER get through Congress. How can he do that? The man is not a dictator. Frankly, what I want to see vision on is our infrastructure, before we are all sinking leaded hate..and it is coming if we do not act soon. Hillary has that vision. I support her.
Deletenow now don't let the dragon rears it's ugly head! that small minder is a globe trotter!
Deleteare you Rick? I didn't think so..........
The healthcare industry ha a vested interest in Hillary, shr got paid so we would not get medicare for all in the US of A.
ReplyDeleteMrs. Hillary Clinton 1994: I believe, and I may be to totally off base on this, but I believe that by the year 2000 we will have a single payer system. I don’t think it’s — I don’t even think it’s a close call politically.
I think the momentum for a single payer system will sweep the country.
Hilary in 2016:But in the ensuing years, both Clintons have taken millions of dollars in speaking fees from the health care industry. According to public disclosures, Hillary Clinton alone, from 2013 to 2015, made $2,847,000 from 13 paid speeches to the industry.
But in the ensuing years, both Clintons have taken millions of dollars in speaking fees from the health care industry. According to public disclosures, Hillary Clinton alone, from 2013 to 2015, made $2,847,000 from 13 paid speeches to the industry.
Cite your source. It's really not that hard to do.
DeleteThis is how the Bernie campaign is operating these days, much to his chagrin.
DeleteNot 5:15 but I found this link:
Deletehttps://theintercept.com/2016/01/13/hillary-clinton-single-payer/
5:15 cut and pasted from an article but did not cite the source. It would be great if people stopped doing that.
DeleteI think Hillery is correct. She is politically savvy and she knows her history. I've just decided to go with Clinton. I think she is our only hope.
ReplyDeleteAs CBS News notes, back then she declared that a single-payer system was all but inevitable, saying: “I believe that by the year 2000 we will have a single payer system. I don’t think it’s — I don’t even think it’s a close call politically ... it will be such a huge popular issue in the sense of populist issue that even if it’s not successful the first time, it will eventually be.”
DeleteBetween that declaration and her now saying single-payer can never pass, Clinton has vacuumed in roughly $13.2 million from sources in the health sector, according to data compiled by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics. That includes $11.2 million from the sector when Clinton was a senator and $2 million from health industry sources during her 2016 presidential campaign. In a 2006 story about her relationship with the health industry, the New York Times noted that during her Senate reelection campaign, she was "receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from doctors, hospitals, drug manufacturers and insurers" and had become "the No. 2 recipient of donations from the industry." The Intercept also reported that from 2013 to 2015, Clinton received more than $2.8 million in speaking fees from the health industry.
http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/hillary-clinton-gets-13-million-health-industry-now-says-single-payer-will-never
Clinton faces losing Iowa to Sanders thanks to young women
DeleteOf all the groups that comprise Iowa's electorate, young female Democrats should be natural supporters of Hillary Clinton.
But when Iowa becomes the first US state to choose a Democratic nominee on Monday, the polls suggest that most young women will back the 74-year-old socialist, Bernie Sanders.
One national survey suggests that Mr Sanders enjoys a 19 point lead over Mrs Clinton among women aged 18 to 34. In Iowa his favourability rating with women is 81 per cent, well ahead of Mrs Clinton's 69 per cent.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/12132135/Clinton-faces-losing-Iowa-to-Sanders-thanks-to-young-women.html
Clinton will not lose Iowa. Sanders will. WTF will you post then?
DeleteShe willl be under indictment soon enough 7:20. Just wait.
Delete720 Thank God and hope Hillary does some Mothering to America for the next 4 years!
DeleteSo will Sarah - let's make a bet of who is indicted first! I betcha Sarah is first 802
DeleteI don't take my marching orders from a professional corporate spokeswoman...that's what I call intelligent, not "pragmatic." I do not limit my dreams nor my goals based on Hillary Rodham Clinton's opportunistic pronouncements. Single payer IS possible.... it depends on US...all of US, not the 1 or 2 %
ReplyDeleteWho exactly gave you marching orders?
DeleteIt depends of US...all of US, not just Democrats.
DeleteTherein lies the problem.
"I do not limit my dreams nor my goals based on Hillary Rodham Clinton"
DeleteUnless you find a way to work pragmatically, that's all they will remain - dreams.
5:34 - be sure to vote for Nader, too. Sanders-Nader 2000
DeleteYou just go with the crowd 6:46, you must feel safe and warm in your herd.
Delete7:10's comment really hits on why certain people are so passionate about Bernie Sanders. They think they are part of an exclusive club and only THEY know the truth.
DeleteMeanwhile, for Sanders to get elected, he needs a crowd and a herd.
Remember when Nader said there was no difference between Gore and Bush? And people actually fell for it!
Deletecopycatting again Sarah? snowed in tonight?
DeleteAwwwe the Hillary fan squad trying to scare and bully everyone to vote for their post menopausal maniac.
DeleteHow cute.
7:48 - thank you. Bernie Bros think it's cool to compare humans to animals in submerged metaphor.
DeleteThere are lots of Sanders supporters who are wonderful , caring progressives.
DeleteThen there are people like 8:49 who Sanders, himself, has asked to shut the hell up with their sexist bullshit.
Why support a progressive candidate when your attitude goes against basic progressive principles?
Clinton/Sanders 2016
ReplyDelete(sigh)
you are completely reading this wrong and the editing doesnt help. what she is saying and has said from the debates on is that we cant start over and we cant wave our magic wand and poof there is single payer or medicare for all. she is afraid of someone like either a republican repealing and having to start form scratch or sanders taking us down the road of going for too much change that will scare the public and give the republicans a way to squeeze in there and repeal. they certainly are not just going to say ok lets do it sanders way. she is saying its a big fight coming to make incremental changes and thats why we better be careful about who we choose to wage that war. and let me add, the best way to make sure we keep moving to the left on this and are able to make changes (or if you insist on the fantasy, are able to magically make medicare for all a reality) then we need to change some of those rep seats to dems. a lot of them in the house in fact. and you know what we need to do that? MONEY!!!! a lot of money. clinton has raised over 20 mil for the down ticket races. sanders has raised ZERO!!!! we cant win anything without money. every time sanders is asked how he is going to get his platform thru congress he says "we are going to have a revolution". wtf does that mean? until the rules are changed we have to play by them or we are going to lose to the better funded republicans.
ReplyDeletePretty much nobody here is interested in the truth. Just look at the comments.
DeleteAmerica need Mothering - elect Hillary!
DeleteMothers always know best!
Look at her child and tell me different!
"they certainly are not just going to say ok lets do it sanders way."
DeleteYou think they are just going to say ok, let's do it Clinton's way?
What part of the GOP wanting her tortured, dead, and shit on do you people not understand?
It will be the same fight they are having with the POTUS driven by pure hatred They will concede to nothing that involves Hillary.
Bernie stands more of a chance than she would if she turned into a tea party darling.
Gross 8:27.
DeleteExactly why no self respecting man would EVER vote for Hillary.
Gross, 8:46, but not unexpected.
DeleteWill you vote for Trump if Clinton gets the nomination? Would a self-respecting man do that? Will you stay home and pout?
Please tell us more about what "self respecting men" do.
Anonymous8:37 PM,
DeleteAnd you think Bernie has a magic wand that can get single payer done in the next 10-15 years????? Seriously?
Anonymous8:46 PM
DeleteOne with a brain
957 take one brain and minus 846 one brain and walla you have ZERO! no brains at all...how the hell did that happen? hahaha
DeleteIt's spelled "voila."
DeleteCNN/WMUR poll: Trump, Sanders still up in New Hampshire: Sanders continues to lead Hillary Clinton by a wide margin, 57% to 34% in the new poll.
ReplyDeleteGo Bernie !!!
DeleteBernie's next wake-up call is South Carolina.
Deleteand this is how hillary shows that she, like so many other entrenched government lifers, will keep going with the status quo.
ReplyDeletesingle payer healthcare WILL happen - maybe not in our lifetimes, but it will go there simply because of the costs. but hillary doesn't have to worry about that, cause she's probably only got 15 years left - she can't see beyond her own lifetime, and she doesn't care to. she doesn't want to take it any further, it's all about what can happen now. and that's all she cares about. some "visionary" she is.
oh, for fuck's sake, are you serious?
DeleteJust how many decades did Obamacare take? Do you even KNOW?
She has a daughter and granddaughter and she's not a monster.
DeleteHillary has been running around like a happy little piglet to any wall street donor that will throw slop in her trough.
Deleteoink, oink!
Who would profit from single payer healthcare, Wallstreet or the people. The ACA was written by the healthcare lobbyists, for the healthcare industries profits!
No who is Hillary representing? Looks like she has a debt to pay for all her campaign funds!
Anonymous9:42 PM
DeleteDon't be obtuse. It's not as black and white as getting rid of wallstreet and you know it. I work for a healthcare industry, and at least in my little piece of what I do and see and control, we try very hard to make an impact on curing disease and making a difference. Don't tar everyone with the same brush. It's disengenuous.
Then why don't YOU run for president and show her and us how it's done. Pathetic. All some people can do is throw stones.
Deletenow now Sarah are you snowed in? white out?
DeleteIf everyone gave up in the 1960s as Hillary is now doing on single payer health coverage, there would not have been a walk on the moon.
ReplyDeleteWhy is Hillary giving up?
Yes, it seems everyone just wants to throw their hands in the air and give up. After all we have achieved this last 8 years. Very disappointing
DeleteI think it will eventually come to pass, but there is too much opposition right now to push it. Baby steps.
ReplyDeleteI think Clinton, in order to get the rest of the country insured, is just facing the fact that governmentally, legislatively, commercially there is no way it can come to fruition without agreements with insurance industry and Big Pharma. They have a chokehold on it all.
ReplyDeleteNo, they do not. They have a hold on Republicans, who will never let go because they love money not America.
DeleteAnd Republicans have a chokehold on uninformed and poorly educated voters. Until that changes, ACA is the best we can do.
DeleteAnon 7:14 --
DeleteDid you not see the word "legislatively"?
I was trying to be brief, but you obviously couldn't make the connection. Think!!
no one talks in code anymore dumfuck! think
DeleteElizabeth Warren slams White House for "shockingly weak" punishment of corporate crime: "Corporate criminals routinely escape meaningful prosecution for their misconduct"
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone think Hillary, AKA, miss Goldmann Sachs would be any better a prosecuting here big important donors???
According to a new Washington Post/ABC News poll, Hillary Clinton got a paltry 36 percent approval for being trustworthy from Democrats when compared with her socialist rival Bernie Sanders.
DeleteClinton still leads in the latest ABC News/Washington Post poll in trust to handle individual issues – with the exception of regulating banks and other financial institutions – as well as on electability.
http://www.allenbwest.com/2016/01/shock-poll-shows-how-far-hillary-has-fallen-with-democrats/
You're not helping Bernie- HE said so.
DeleteSeeking victory in Iowa, Hillary Clinton has begun channeling the economic indignation of her rival Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, whose unapologetically liberal campaign has tightened the race ahead of Monday’s caucuses and given him a lead in the New Hampshire contest that follows.
ReplyDeleteMaking her closing argument to Iowa caucus-goers, Clinton now cloaks her detailed policy plans in Sanders’ outraged rhetoric. Pharmaceutical pricing “burns” her up. Companies that take advantage of the tax loopholes get her “pretty riled up.” And she promises to “rail away” at any industry that flouts the law.
“I’m going after all of them” she declared in Davenport, her tone escalating to a shout. “When I talk about going after those companies, those businesses, those special interests, I have a much broader target list than my opponents.”
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/national_world/2016/01/31/0131-clinton-sanders.html
Right, after Hillary gets her fat donations, she will "rail away" these awful corporate elites.
No handout Hillary will prosecute white collar crimes, my ass!
Bernie-bros are getting tiresome.
DeleteWhy does Sanders want to give blanket immunity to the gun industry?
DeleteThe media of late has been banging on the drum of the "Berniebro." Don't let that man-bun fool you, America: The Berniebro is an unrepentant mansplainer, who backs Sanders with a level of devotion matched only by his self-righteousness: "The Berniebro knows a secret," the Atlantic mocked. "The only reason you, and every other Facebook users, haven’t supported Bernie yet is your own willful ignorance." The Berniebro is also said to be an avatar of latent sexism among progressive men toward former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. As Salon argued, "A chunk of Sanders support with his young male cohort comes from guys who really don’t cotton well to the idea of women in power."
DeleteFor all the attention this band of unpleasant men with mommy issues attracts, you might assume they're core to Sanders' support among young progressives. But a new poll from Rock the Vote is turning that conventional wisdom on its head. Yes, there's a big gender gap among young voters backing Bernie Sanders. But it's not among men. Voting-age women under the age of 35 now favor Sanders by 20 percentage points over Clinton. You read that right: Young female voters support Bernie Sanders by an expansive margin.
Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/move-over-berniebros-a-wave-of-young-women-is-boosting-bernie-sanders-20160112#ixzz3ytguqhJt
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook
Bernie Bros and Gals are tiresome.
DeleteIt's so true. I can't believe some of the decidedly non-progressive, sexist bullshit coming from some of the supporters of a progressive candidate like Bernie Sanders.
DeleteI would LOVE a single payer system, but honestly think it is not going to happen in our country with the power of the health care industries/insurance companies/etc. I think that Hillary is being extremely practical. I also believe that we have a lot of improvements to make via Obamacare and would like to see our leaders put their energies into cooperating on that, but like everything else in this country right now, hard to imagine cooperation, darn it all.
ReplyDeleteIt will never, ever come to pass until our educational system is jolted in to the 21st century, and teaching and learning is wrested from the grip of the religionists.
ReplyDeleteNever say never. If anyone but Bernie gets elected, then nothing changes. Nothing.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.facebook.com/brandon.weber.upw/photos/a.561005373961970.1073741826.526961900699651/1056569244405578/?type=3&theater
Go Bernie!
DeleteBernie Sanders
Jill Stein
2016
It's a revolution!
What Susan Sarandon said:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.facebook.com/brandon.weber.upw/photos/a.561005373961970.1073741826.526961900699651/1056569244405578/?type=3&theater
Ralph Nader, brought to you by Susan Sarandon & Tim Robbins. I'll never forget their advocacy in 2000. She's not my "go-to" authority on all issues.
DeleteBernie says: stop. You're turning folks off.
ReplyDeleteCheck out the article, Danny is funny and oh so passionate about Bernie:
Delete“I’m into Bernie Sanders. I think Bernie Sanders is somebody that we really have to focus on—especially now,” he says. “Whether or not the money buys the other contenders, we still have to stay together on Bernie because Bernie’s got the goods. He really knows what he’s talking about and he’s got all the issues down.
He gets all these little donations because he doesn’t want to be beholden to anybody. Bernie will give us the best shot at getting equality for men and women, African Americans, and all people of color; he’ll give us the best shot at healthcare; he’ll give us the best shot at the international situation so that we don’t start blowing things up, and to try to pull back a bit on the Imperialism. We need to pull back on it. We can’t keep dealing with regime change and all this shit!
You guys—the young people—have to look at this and say, ‘Enough of this crap!’”
He adds, “I think a lot of people are starting to Feel the Bern—that’s a funny saying, but people are starting to feel the heat and the responsibility that we all have to at least give the planet a shot. We want to try to keep the Earth in a stable position for our grandchildren and great-grandchildren.”
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/1/24/1474458/-Danny-DeVito-gets-into-detail-about-his-endorsement-of-Bernie-Sanders-Enough-of-this-Crap
I really don't care how many celebs like Bernie. I like him, too, but I remember 2000. Thanks for Nader, Susan Sarandon & Tim Robbins.
DeleteI'm going with a progressive!
ReplyDelete#FeelTheBern
Hillary is selling us out!
You need to read about how Bernie has also "sold us out." Start here: http://www.shakesville.com/2015/07/looking-for-bernie-part-1-sanders-72.html
DeleteRead all four installations. They are eye-opening.
DeleteDoes she mean:
ReplyDelete1. Single-payer will never ever pass AS LONG AS THE GOP CONTROLS CONGRESS?
-- or --
2. She will never, ever introduce single-payer and fight for it?
There's a REAL difference.
Never ever is a long time.
ReplyDeleteAnd Bernie's supporters are in favor of Universal. The big criticism of Obamacare from the left was it wasn't Universal.
I was one of the ones screaming the minute Obama gave that away (and then caved on every other compromise the right demanded.)
True or not, it is a bad move to actually say it, especially with the race so close in Iowa.
(BTW spell check. That should be "never, ever come" singular in the title.
You all keep blaming the right for not getting single payer health coverage, but Obamacare is what you got from the Democrats. No Republicans voted for it. They could have as easily voted in a single payer system.
ReplyDeleteBut NEITHER party wants single payer. Hillary is setting the bar for our expectations low because she and her big money supporters don't want single payer. She's part of the problem and her statement here proves it.
Yes, I think it is. Our time to have single payer was right after WWII, but we let the AMA scare us with cries of socialist medicine.
ReplyDeleteLast week I had to go the doctor. The office was in a 1/2 mile long medical complex. It was huge and is only one of many in my area. Every time a new building is built it seems like it is a medical building. Medical care is BIG Business in this country and is too entrenched to be erased.
Ralph Nader did not cause Bush/Cheney to win in 2000 or 2004. The election was stolen both times... doesn't anyone remember??..2000 in Florida with Jeb's secretary of state, hanging chads etc...then in 2004 with Ohio Diebold voting machines...and eventually when the head technician was called up to testify... oops, he was "air-planed." These are facts friends. But in 2008, happily something changed... for some reason they couldn't control it anymore...remember how surprised Rove was when the election results were announced(i.e. that Obama won!) ... he was on Fox news and he demanded that they review it... it was like he was thinking.."Shit, I fixed this election, didn't I..wtf is going on?"....
ReplyDeleteThe Powers that Be are now the Powers that Were and it's Game Change Time.
I don't know what will happen with this election, but I do know that we are moving forward, not backward....
A defeatist attitude for something the Democratic party has wanted since Harry Truman. So she alone will concede the impossibility of single payer? Sounds like a Republican to me.
ReplyDelete