Thursday, February 11, 2016

Democratic Debate Open Thread. Update!

Let me start of by saying that I am not exactly sure what to expect tonight.

Since the last debate there has been even more friction between the Sanders and Clinton camps, and with one primary victory apiece chances are that both are feeling the pressure.

There is also the fact that Hillary already has 394 delegates (including Super delegates) to Sanders 44 to make those angered at the standard quo even more frustrated at politics in this country.

So yes, I do expect that there are going to be sparks tonight.

A couple of things that COULD be used as bludgeons tonight.

One being that the Justice Department has issued subpoenas to the Clinton Foundation.

And two being that some Sanders supporters are sending this photo of a young Bernie Sanders around to buoy op his civil rights cred.
Problem is that it is NOT Bernie Sanders in the photo.

Still I DO expect that there will be the kind of dignity during the debate that is in short supply on the GOP side of the aisle, so hopefully at the end of tonight we will not have seen anything that makes us feel shame about our candidate or our party.

As always you can follow me here on Twitter.

And, also as always, I will try to update the post as events warrant.

Update:

97 comments:

  1. Anonymous5:01 PM

    From the book 'Power in Words'.
    http://i.imgur.com/T2m3BOV.png
    Bernie fought his battles on campuses for Civil Rights.
    http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1964/01/14/page/6/article/race-protest-cases-of-159-are-decided/
    And he was front and center with Lewis on the anniversary.
    http://i.imgur.com/R1nRlK6.jpg

    Meanwhile:
    Clinton promising to crack down on corporations that game the system. Only days later, Clinton’s campaign is launching a fundraising blitz that includes events with representatives of industries that have significant business interests before the federal government.
    http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/hillary-clinton-plans-raise-money-industries-interests-next-president-2302757

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous5:53 PM

      Those two things aren't "meanwhile."

      Delete
    2. Anonymous6:21 PM

      I thought it was in dispute that John Lewis ever saw Bernie at a protest back in the day. Joy Reid has been tweeting that there's a photo in dispute. I can't tell. Is that the same one?

      Delete
    3. Anonymous6:22 PM

      Oh - sorry. You're referencing an anniversary photo, not the one in dispute.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous6:34 PM

      My father was there, too. Doubtful that John Lewis registered all the foot soldiers, not just the me-me-me Clintons. I don't take anything away from the fact that Sen. Sanders was not memorable 50+ years later. He didn't have a grand political campaign in his future yet, so didn't make himself known to the leaders, as did the Clintons.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous8:31 PM

      You have to go back all the way to 1964 to burnish Bernie's credentials on civil rights? Anything since?

      Delete
    6. Anonymous4:23 AM

      8:31 Apparently nothing Bernie feels is worth mentioning since 1964

      Delete
    7. Anonymous6:00 AM

      Lies!

      I don't think Lewis met the Clintons between 1963 & 1966. Bill Clinton was working for the segregationist Senator William Fulbright as a clerk while young Hillary Rodham was the President of the Young Republicans at Wellesley.

      http://spectator.org/blog/65457/john-lewis-disses-bernie-sanders-civil-rights-record

      Delete
    8. Anonymous6:30 AM

      Now there's a good source- not.

      Delete
    9. Anonymous6:39 AM

      "The American Spectator, is a conservative U.S. monthly magazine covering news and politics, edited by R. Emmett Tyrrell Jr. and published by the non-profit American Spectator Foundation." - Wikipedia

      Delete
    10. Anonymous8:22 AM

      Bernie Sanders supporters are only in this to take down Hillary.

      Delete
  2. Anonymous5:02 PM

    Marvelous. Two female panelists.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous6:03 PM

      I sense some sarcasm. Are you disappointed there are two female panelists?

      Delete
    2. Anonymous6:17 PM

      Do women scare you? Mommy issues?

      Delete
    3. Would you find two male panelists noteworthy or a problem?

      Delete
  3. Anonymous5:22 PM

    Bernie made it perfectly clear that the "black guy: is to blame.
    He forgot to mention the "black guy" saved the whole country from economic collapse, but it's still the black guys fault.
    As a biracial American who was undecided Bernie Lost my vote. FU Bernie.
    BTW Bernie, all the states you need votes from are not like the ultra white NH.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous5:36 PM

      Citation needed.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous6:17 PM

      Citation needed? No, citation not needed if you have a memory going back 7 yrs. But maybe you are senile like Bernie.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous6:18 PM

      I agree @5:52

      Delete
    4. Anonymous10:11 PM

      Sanders has said he thinks he can win over some Trump supporters.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous4:22 AM

      Cornel West is campaigning for Bernie.

      Delete
  4. Anonymous5:29 PM

    I'm bothered by Hill saying "Aaaaah" a lot. Much less tonight than the last time I heard her. I wonder if it will increase in frequency as the debate continues.

    Both of them are sooooooooooooooooooooo superior to anyone in the GOP.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous6:10 PM

      President Obama does that a lot also. I prefer the "aahs" and the "umms", while they're forming their thoughts into intelligible sentences, to the garbage that comes out of the mouths of Palin, Trump, Rmoney, et. al.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous7:09 PM

      Better to aahs and uhhs than word salad and $arah still comes out looking liking an idiot.

      SUCKS to be smart!

      Delete
    3. Anonymous7:39 PM

      Right on 6:10 and 7:09!

      Delete
    4. Anonymous6:02 AM

      Ever notice that cute little smile that HRC does, just before she lies?

      Delete
    5. Anonymous6:31 AM

      6:02 - ever notice Bernie's face get red just before he yells?

      Delete
    6. Anonymous7:01 AM

      I noticed Sanders coughed a lot during the debate and wagged his finger. Clinton's yellow top reminded me of the Morton salt girl, plus she has an odd smile and said ah a lot. These things bother me, so I can't vote for either. As much as possible, I try not to be concerned with issues. I try to make my decisions based upon completely superfluous matters.

      Delete
  5. Anonymous5:31 PM

    Bernie criticizing the Pres is a big problem for me. I was stunned to hear him say that.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous6:11 PM

      Ya, I don't know if that was naivete or just trying to get the media to take notice.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous6:18 PM

      Bernie can diss Obama all he wants. Wait until he takes the office and see how well HE does.

      I guess I'm the only one that took a civics class and understood how our government works.

      Good luck with Congress, Bernie, if you even make it that far.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous12:46 AM

      @Anonymous 5:31 PM

      'Bernie criticizing the Pres is a big problem for me. I was stunned to hear him say that.'
      ********************
      I didn't hear him, but if he said something negative about President Obama, I have a problem with him, too. I am tired of Democrats/Liberals trying to score points by jumping on the bandwagon of the Repubs, by taking snipes at President Obama.

      Delete
  6. There is so little disagreement between Sanders and Clinton that if there voices were not in a different register I would not know who was answering the questions.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous7:18 PM

      I like both Hillary and Bernie. I prefer Hillary as the Democratic presidential candidate since it would be possible for her to select a younger candidate to serve as VP. She already has plenty of experience and a younger promising democratic leader would allow for a nice balance. Bernie doesn't have the international experience of Hillary, and I just can't quite figure out who would be a good VP candidate on his ticket without selecting another aging democrat. I'm 68 years old in case anyone thinks I'm not being fair to older politicians. When Obama selected Biden, that was a good balance of experience/age.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous12:42 AM

      @Anonymous 7:18 PM

      I'm 67, and I totally agree with you.

      Delete
  7. Anonymous5:59 PM

    Thanks, I never know these things are happening until I read them here!

    ReplyDelete
  8. Anonymous6:09 PM

    Why did she say Barack Obama's SuperPAC switched over to her? Did she really have to say that? To me, that's a coffin nail for plenty so angry.

    Please advise.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous6:28 PM

      Why does Bernie take $$ from a SuperPAC? http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/12/bernie-sanders-super-pac/420930/

      Delete
    2. Anonymous7:04 PM

      6:28pm SuperPACs by law must operate independently from the candidate they support and candidates are prevented, by law, from coordinating or colluding with a SuperPAC.

      Bernie can't tell them to stop, he can't contact them at all.

      Anyone can start a SuperPAC and raise money for any cause or candidate and submit advertisements that support the candidate, however the candidate has no say in the activities of the PAC.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous7:38 PM

      Then Bernie is no different than anyone else, 7:04.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous8:29 PM

      The Super PAC Bernie is getting money from was formed by a big bunch of nurses pooling their money. They've spent about $1million, and a some of his "foot soldiers". This is very different than Billionaires trying to buy a candidate.

      Elizabeth 44

      Delete
    5. Anonymous9:04 PM

      SuperPACs can be a thorn in a candidates side, for example a SuperPAC funded by white supremacists recently vowed support for Donald Trump and ran a commercial supporting him.

      I'd doubt that Trump would have approved their message or accepted their support given the option. But that's what you get with SuperPACs, others responsible to spreading "your" message which may not represent the way you feel at all.

      Delete
    6. Anonymous12:52 AM

      @Anonymous 6:09 PM

      'Why did she say Barack Obama's SuperPAC switched over to her? Did she really have to say that? To me, that's a coffin nail for plenty so angry.'
      ******************
      Why would something so small upset you?
      Don't sweat the small stuff.

      Delete
  9. Anonymous6:23 PM

    Here we go - Bernie's weakness is foreign policy and "unintended consequences."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous6:57 PM

      He will never equate her on foreign policy.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous9:55 PM

      Sanders nailed it,

      no Henry Kissinger!

      Delete
    3. Anonymous6:33 AM

      Oh, please. That would have been a worthwhile line - in 1979.

      Delete
  10. SallyinMI6:29 PM

    See Sarah, you don't need a 'deep bench' if the starting lineup is made up of All-Stars instead of water boys and ball boys.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous6:46 PM

      They're talking over their heads.
      Leadership, they have none.
      You are no leader, SARAH, and never have been.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous7:04 PM

      ...and robots.

      Delete
  11. Balzafiar6:56 PM

    Excellent! Loved every minute of it.

    I hope the GOP was watching. Maybe it will give them a clue as to what a real debate looks and sounds like. If they can't figure it out alone, maybe they can buy a clue or phone a friend...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous8:17 PM

      I doubt they have a friend. Maybe Satan.

      Oh wait, if you actually read the Bible, he's way too honest for them.

      And that's their final answer.

      Delete
  12. Anonymous7:01 PM

    I do not care which democrat wins..Just that a DEMOCRAT wins and changes the Congress!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous7:04 AM

      probably half of Bernie's supporters are only in it to sabotage Hillary.

      Delete
  13. Anita Winecooler7:04 PM

    The most boring debate, ever. They both said, basically, the same things, but Bernie really seemed ticked off to me, for some odd reason.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous7:39 PM

      He's always angry!!!!!!

      Delete
    2. Anonymous9:57 PM

      Hillary was agreeing to everything Sanders said.

      But HRC ran against Obama, vicous!

      Delete
    3. Anonymous1:25 AM

      @Anonymous 9:57 PM

      'Hillary was agreeing to everything Sanders said.

      But HRC ran against Obama, vicous!'
      ******************************
      Yep, her team and some of her supporters were so vicious against candidate Obama, that I lost ALL respect for some Democrats during the 2008 presidential campaign.
      You see, me being Black, I took it personally, as I could see the racism in it.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous7:08 AM

      1:26
      Your stupidity supersedes $arah's

      Delete
  14. Anonymous7:18 PM

    That was the best. PBS has the best presentation for these events, hysteria-free, non-partisan, conducted with a calm and intelligent approach by the moderators. It's too bad Clinton and Sanders can't be the only nominees running for President. They are admirable debate partners. They don't dishonor those who hold public office and conduct themselves as the respectable persons that they are.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Anonymous7:29 PM

    Interesting piece explaining delegates and super delegates.

    http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/02/after-sanders-big-win-in-new-hampshire-establishme.html

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous10:05 PM

      Thanks, I was wondering about that.

      Delete
  16. Anonymous7:29 PM

    =ally, the GOP stating lineup is T-ballers and their angry mommies...meh,. Oh, and the bases.

    ReplyDelete
  17. My thinking is certainly colored by the superdelegate issue, but HRC got on my last nerve tonight. I find her smug and arrogant. I think what gets me the most is that everything is Me Me Me You'd think she ran the country for a decade instead of demonstrating how collaborative she can be. She actually never had my vote, but this debate cemented my decision.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous8:14 PM

      Hillary Clinton is smart and prepared and confident. If that comes across as smug and arrogant to you, maybe it's more your problem than hers. She's selling herself, her experience, and her knowledge, which is what a candidate is supposed to do. Does Bernie Sanders not talk about what he's done and what he's going to do? Why is it "me me me" when it's Clinton but not when it's Sanders?

      Delete
    2. Anonymous8:16 PM

      That's funny, because I was thinking the same thing about Bernie Sanders. Smug and arrogant and talking about how everyone else is wrong and he's got the best solution.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous8:35 PM

      Interesting, Republican say the same thing about President Obama, that he's smug and arrogant.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous1:07 AM

      @Anonymous 8:35 PM

      'Interesting, Republican say the same thing about President Obama, that he's smug and arrogant.'
      ************************
      Racists expect a Black man to be on his knees all the time.
      If a Black man is intelligent and self-assured, he is called arrogant, smug, and uppity.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous6:52 AM

      Exactly 1:07.

      And sexists expect a woman to be calm and resigned and self-deprecating all the time. If a woman is confident and not afraid to show how smart she is, she is called arrogant, smug, and unfeminine.

      I see some democrats expressing this kind of soft sexism and it drives me crazy because I know most of these democrats have been outraged when it was done to the President because of his race.

      Delete
    6. Anonymous10:22 AM

      Meanwhile, Sanders was wagging his finger, getting all red faced, yelling, and smirking. But, Clinton is the one who is arrogant and smug.

      Delete
  18. Anonymous7:37 PM

    Ok that's it for me. I becoming irritated with Bernie's hand flailing, his generalities and code words. He is becoming the opposite side of the RW coin. I'm voted for cool, calm, collected Hillary who has actual detailed plans!

    Oh and just for giggles Brancy, you'll love this:

    http://palinbabynames.com/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous10:12 PM

      Hilarious!

      Delete
  19. Anonymous7:54 PM

    Helen Philpot ‏@HelenPhilpot Feb 4

    When not speaking in platitudes, Bernie seems to be less presidential. Will young voters understand that nuance? #DemDebate

    ReplyDelete
  20. Anonymous8:21 PM

    Maybe there was a reason an unknown Obama beat Clinton eight years ago. Now another unknown is running against her. If there was a higher power, they sure are against second POTUS Clinton taking office.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous6:35 AM

      Wrong. All the competition has made her a better candidate. Sanders has been a professional politician for 30 years. He's an old hand at it.

      Delete
  21. Anonymous10:25 PM

    Hillary Clinton the winner as far as I'm concerned. She has my vote!

    ReplyDelete
  22. Anonymous11:45 PM

    Bernie is the most dedicated to working families.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Anonymous3:52 AM

    as a 66 yr. old, white female married to a 66 year African_American I can unapologetically state the I DON"T FEEL THE BERN and haven't for yrs. of watching him on TV! Bernie has been a self-proclaimed Socialist for decades has been extremely critical of the Democratic party & Obama. With a little research you can fins numerous citations of this. Also even though he puts up a lot of bills with all his time in the Congress he has only been able to get 1 passed. Here is one citation for you, even though I don't often agree with them it is relevant today. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/12/just-how-harshly-has-bernie-sanders-criticized-president-obama-lets-break-it-down/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous7:12 AM

      If Bernie were to win the nomination, republicans would say black people will vote for him because they want free stuff.

      Delete
  24. Anonymous5:36 AM

    Fact check isle HRC

    Hillary Rodham was the President of the Young Republicans!

    I don't think Lewis met the Clintons between 1963 & 1966. Bill Clinton was working for the segregationist Senator William Fulbright as a clerk while young Hillary Rodham was the President of the Young Republicans at Wellesley.

    http://spectator.org/blog/65457/john-lewis-disses-bernie-sanders-civil-rights-record

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous6:37 AM

      Great source there (NOT) and the word is "aisle."
      Example:
      "Clean-up needed for Bernie Bro propaganda, Aisle @5:36."

      Delete
    2. Anonymous6:53 AM

      Is she still the President of the Young Republicans???!!!!!1111!!!!

      That's outrageous!!!!11!!!!!!111!!!!1111

      Delete
    3. Anonymous7:13 AM

      This doesn't change the fact that Bernie shopped a photo of a sit-in in the 1960's, captioning him as the speaker. He knew it was not him but thought he could get away with it because this fellow looked a lot like Bernie did at that age. Deceitful

      Delete
  25. Raz Lemons5:45 AM

    The ACA has been a gift but even on its best day there are still millions who do quality and are left out to fend for themselves, Single payer universal Canadian style health care covers every single person for Hillary to tell me that this never ever going to happen just makes me sick to my stomach

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous7:14 AM

      Why do you lie? This is easily proven.

      Delete
  26. Anonymous5:58 AM

    Sanders and his supporters would make it happen, HRC wants healthcare to love her with their lobbyists money, she has no love for the people.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous6:38 AM

      In a fairy tale, sure.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous6:54 AM

      How is Sanders and his supporters going to make it happen? I really want to know.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous6:55 AM

      Hillary Clinton eats babies. Sanders and his supporters would never eat babies.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous7:14 AM

      Sanders supporters seem to be so full of hate. Gee, they sound just like republicans.

      Delete
    5. Balzafiar7:54 AM

      @6:55AM -- "Hillary Clinton eats babies. Sanders and his supporters would never eat babies."

      Hillary surely is buying them from Planned Parenthood. Please notify Carly of this at once! It's a conspiracy!

      Delete
  27. Anonymous6:59 AM

    berniebro cleanup aisle 602

    ReplyDelete
  28. Anonymous7:03 AM

    12:52
    Bernie's supporters know they only way they can defeat Hillary is to lie about her.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous12:41 PM

      The truth about her is more than enough to lead to her defeat. Like it did in 2008.

      Delete
  29. Anonymous12:40 PM

    The photographer who took the disputed photos says they ARE of Bernie Sanders.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Anonymous1:19 PM

    @anonymous 12:40, yep. Here's the link: http://www.phaidon.com/agenda/photography/articles/2016/february/02/when-danny-lyon-met-bernie-sanders/ ... not that anyone who's against Bernie will acknowledge it. :(

    ReplyDelete
  31. Anonymous9:56 AM

    Here is the lowdown on the photo in question of Bernie.
    Jonathan Capeheart wrote an article in the Washington Post yesterday stating that not only was a picture of Bernie not of him (the photographer says it is), but that he wasn't there at all.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/02/11/stop-sending-around-this-photo-of-bernie-sanders/
    He has been promoting this on Twitter quite a bit, but after talking with the photographer, doesn't have much to say now, apparently.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/CapehartJ?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
    There are dozens of tweets and nearly 800 comments on his 'op-ed', most of them calling out how factually inaccurate it is, with him defending it over and over.
    He was also on MSNBC Thursday and Friday stating the items in his article as absolute fact, calling Sanders dishonest.
    It might be coincidental but Jonathan Capehart's live in partner, Nick Schmit, is not only a highly placed staffer on Hillary Clinton's current and previous presidential campaigns, he also previously worked for Hillary at the State Department. And he's part of the Washington Post editorial board that has been attacking Bernie for months.
    And John Lewis has backed down also.
    Make no mistake,the Clintons and their minions will say or do anything to get where they wanna be.

    ReplyDelete

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