MADDOW: As a self-proclaimed liberal, people talk about the liberal media and they say the whole media is liberal and the whole establishment is liberal, it's not true. If you really are a liberal it's been a long time in this country that you felt that mainstream politics had nothing to say to you. That mainstream politics was just not about you.
And I look at all the young people, particularly at this Bernie Sanders event. I was 19 in 1992 when Bill Clinton was running on the Democratic side and at the 1992 Republican convention, Pat Buchanan got up there and gave this culture war speech where he basically declared a crusade against minorities and particularly gay people. And as a gay person watching that in 1992 I didn't feel like Bill Clinton had my back. I didn't feel like the Democratic party had my back.
He was talking about agreeing with Ronald Reagan that government was the problem and all that stuff. If you are a liberal, you are not in the majority in this country and you know it and it always feels that way.
But this Democratic race with Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders campaigning this way against each other, that happened because Bernie Sanders got into this race and all these kids who are enthused about this race, whether or not they're supporting Bernie Sanders directly are never going to feel like mainstream politics isn't about them.
I thought this was an interesting interview.
I have been a liberal my entire life, even though typically my demographic, middle aged white male, is supposedly most often attracted to the conservative mindset.
I guess I did not get the memo.
Anyhow I am often quite aware that there are uniquely American experiences that I will never partake in, nor will I really ever understand them completely.
Being female is one. Being a non-white minority another. And being gay yet another.
So for me the Clinton presidency was full of hope and possibilities, and it seemed to deliver on a great number of promises.
Now I am aware that my experience is by no means universal among my liberal fellow travelers.
So I am interested, these many years later what are YOUR feelings about the Clinton administration.
And secondly does it impact your view of a potential Hillary presidency either positively or negatively?
Good question! I despised Bill Clinton in the White House because of his unethical & inappropriate behavior that to me showed poor values. There is no way I could ever vote for Hillary, not just because of her husband, but because of her record of mistruth and using people to line her own pockets. Again, its her behavior that stems from lack of values. Hillary is her own worst enemy to get elected. "Tweaking" her message won't change her character unfortunately.
ReplyDeleteI feel the same way.
DeleteGood morning, Sarah. I see you didn't sleep well. Hormone replacement gone awry again?
DeleteWhile I agree with you, I would vote for her over a Republican any day.
DeleteYou might want to rethink that position.A no-vote is like a vote for a republican and they must be stopped at any cost.I'm not a Hillary fan but she's far superior to any republican that's out there.Republicans must be stopped.Every one of them will be a disaster on so many levels that it is frightening.
DeleteSo You voted for Bush 41 and 43 instead. Very unethical and untrustworthy of you.
DeleteBill Clinton was a fantastic candidate when you compare it to the presidents who came before and after him.
Delete2:27 I suppose Obama has disappointed you as well
DeleteI would take her in heart beat if the choice was 2 wars and blowing up the world economy or her.....but am feeling the Bern more and more
DeleteDitto, 3:33. And yes, 4:19, Obama has disappointed me a lot. He started his first administration with forming the cat food commission (suggest you acquaint yourself with that) and he's ending his second one pushing the TPP. Even Wall Street loving Hillary knows better than to admit she supports the TPP, while she's on the campaign trail, that is.
Delete6:42 is a typical Bernie supporter. They all believe Obama sucks. Republicans disguised as berniebros.
Delete7:44, what did I say that isn't true?
Delete6:42
I agree with 2:27am, however if she is the nominee I will vote for her as there is simply no good choice on the Republican ticket. I don't always vote Democratic but in this case I feel I must, regardless of the candidate.
DeleteI agree with 2:27 AM.
DeleteI would not vote for any Clinton. Hillary is very dishonest. I didn't like her as a Rethug during Nixon times. She is all for Hillary. I will not hold my nose and vote for a Democrat because of a D behind their name. This is what got the Rethugs their choices. "Just vote with the party. No matter who the candidate is". To me, this is wrong advice. I see another GWB. You don't settle. Bernie is NOT a Democrat. He only went Democrat for the sake of getting votes and Party line. We only have a 2 Party system. Stop being lazy. Demand a person who is true to the people and this country. BS and HRC are just hot air for the Media. Just all theatrics and entertainment.
I'm just sick of the Clintons and Bushes.
ReplyDeleteI'm sick of all the same old trash as well. Time to clean house. Get fresh clean faces. People for this century. Not the 19th Century.
DeleteI was in my mid 20s when Bill Clinton was elected in 1992. He was a breath of fresh air after the atrocities of the Reagan/Bush era. I also remember how pants-soilingly terrified the rightwing were of Hillary Clinton back then, which they tried to hide by persecuting her. She WEARS PANTS OCCASIONALLY (geeze, was it 1992 or 1892?). She HAS OPINIONS ABOUT THINGS. You can see that nothing has changed with them even two decades later.
ReplyDeleteAs for Sanders vs. Clinton; I have to admit that I was really excited by Sanders last summer, particularly when I went to Vermont for work and went to some Bernie meetings. However, his over-the-top misogynistic and delusional followers are really turning me off. They're every bit as rabid and malicious as the rightwing are.
She wore a headband! She wore glasses! Was there no end to her criminal habits?
DeleteShe didn't want to bake cookies!
Delete2:52
DeleteAt this point Bernie's campaign has been hijacked by the enemy. That is all.
BULLSHIT, 7:45. Suggest you acquaint yourself with reality.
Delete7:45 is absolutely right. When I first read that Bernie was the left wing trump I vigourously defended him. But I gace been shocked to realize that the supporters in both camps are very much alike, and quickly resort to insults and incivilities when challenged or when Hillary is defended.
Delete9:54
DeleteIf you notice almost every comment in support of Bernie is really just an attack on Hillary. They got nothing. Benghazi.....!
Bqack then I was initially for Ross Perot (hangs her head in shame) but when I realized supporting him only served to weaken any vote against Bush - well I ended up supporting Clinton because I thoroughly disliked the priorities of the Bush administration.
ReplyDeleteSecond time around I wasn't 'unhappy' with the job Clinton had done so supported him again.
But none of that will affect my vote this time. Would love to see an intelligent woman in the oval office and Hillary has that plus an extraordinary understanding of how politics works at the White House level so she'll never waste any time fumbling or trying to prove herself to other foreign powers.
I'm also a huge, huge fan of Bernie Sanders. So I can't tell you how I'm going to vote yet - just that my experience with the Clinton's under Bill's presidency probably won't affect my final decision at all.
=Oz
I entered my teenage years during the height of the Viet Nam war, the assassinations of Martin Luther King Jr. and Bobby Kennedy, and the beginning of the Nixon administration. There was massive societal division over Viet Nam and daily protests in the streets all across this country. Nixon, and his attack-dog Spiro Agnew, basically characterized the youth of America as the enemy of America and declared open war on us.
ReplyDeleteAfter the disgrace of Watergate and Nixon's resignation, there was the brief respite of Jimmy Carter's basic decency, fairness, concern for the average American and commitment to peace making. He was unique in being a southerner who strongly opposed and spoke out against the racism in the South's past and in our society in general. Unfortunately, he was completely derailed by the Iran hostage crisis which became an endless, droning blight on the news each and every day. His decency came to be viewed as weakness and how better to replace him than with someone who talked tough, kicked ass and carefully weighed his diplomatic options only as an afterthought, if at all.
Thus came Reagan. I have struggled to find a record of this quote, but I distinctly remember him once saying at a news conference or some other minor event, "There are two kinds of people--liberals and Americans." Really, if you think about it, this is an incredibly vile statement, and the sort of thing that I view as the origin of the divisiveness that infects and inflames our politics today. Needless to say, the Reagan and Bush eras were not a happy time for liberals in America.
When Clinton came on the scene it was as though a dark cloud had been lifted from the country, at least in the minds of most liberals. Realistically, I realize he had to come off as a centrist to get elected. His "Sister Souljah moment", his toughness on crime, etc., I viewed as the necessary camouflage he had to don in order to win. I think the Republicans realized he was a liberal because they went at him from day one like a pack of rabid dogs--much as they've done with President Obama.
I've been around long enough to realize and grudgingly accept that progressive change only comes incrementally. I believe that Hillary may come off as a moderate or centrist, but I believe both she and Bill are liberals at heart.
I love Bernie, and am still undecided about who I will support in my state's primary. I think the young people of today support Bernie as a sort of savior-like figure, much as people of my generation supported George McGovern or Eugene McCarthy. I think we would have been far better off had McGovern won the presidency in 1972, but again, I think leftward change happens at a glacial pace and with the wisdom that comes with age, I've learned to reluctantly accept that. With the firm conviction that the worst Democrat is 100 times better than the best Republican (hard to believe there is such a thing these days), I will support the Democratic nominee enthusiastically come November regardless of who it is. I know Hillary and Bernie will be doing the same.
Yes, McGovern was a fine man but he did not have the slightest chance to win the national election. The Democratic Party can not go down that road yet again. I think we can elect a woman president. I'm not so sure about an elderly man (my husband keeps saying that he and Bernie Sanders are the same age) who is a one-issue candidate and who will be labeled with every negative possible (by the media, by the opposition) should be become the Democratic candidate.
DeleteBeaglemom
You wrote my thoughts and experiences exactly,3:13 AM. I am all for Hillary because I do remember the 60s,70s,80s, and beyond. I suggest that the young Bernie supporters do a little digging into the past fifty years or so of the political scene in America. They talk about dreams and what they want. We had dreams too: no more war in Viet Nam, etc. All were dashed when we witnessed the assassinations of a beloved president; a civil rights leader and a senator/presidential candidate. Do you really want to be responsible for another right wing provocateur to snatch the presidency away all because you want what you want right now?
DeleteTo start off with, if Jesus Christ ran as a Rethuglikan I wouldn't vote for him. I'm a Democrat in my Father's mold, that is to say beyond an FDR Democrat, I'm a Truman Democrat. My Father was impressed beyond impressed by 1) His tough "The Buck Stops Here" attitude, and 2) Having the balls to drop the Big One. That impressed him no end.
ReplyDeleteSorry for the long Prelude.
I have a forgiving, workable stance when it comes to my Party. I'm not going anywhere, I can always make do with what the Party gives me. I may not like it, but my opinions are still welcome and I can still have my affect. Besides the Rethuglikan Party has no allure for me at all. Politics the way they are today has no room for a third party nationally. Locally they could work, and should be attempted, but until that can proliferate nationwide, it will not work in foisting a Presidential candidate. We have to hold ranks when facing Rethugs, they are formidable liars. We can't let our guard down for a minute.
Hear, hear. I'm a born and bred Democrat and I'll vote for the Democrat.
DeleteI too will work with what very democrat gets the nomination.
DeleteMy real concern is that Bernie's campaign has been infiltrated by the enemy. I mean Cornel West is campaigning for him, and Bernie considers him a friend.
S'funny, that Buchanan speech Professor Maddow referenced was "keynote" for me in '92. I had to agree with it entirely, and so it confirmed my vote for the Clinton/Gore ticket (I had serious doubts about Bill Clinton).
ReplyDeleteRachel should just say she's voting for Bernie Sanders and be done with it. I'm just about ready to pull the plug on her, there's about 10 minutes of her show worth watching, the rest is Trump, Trump and Sanders. This week she has let some untruths slip by that she wouldn't have in the past.
ReplyDeleteAnd it's disingenuous to pretend that it's not the idea of free college that has Bernie's kiddy followers all fired up: the idea of free college,
and the belief that it's actually going to happen.
Think about that.
And HOW will that happen? Bernie has huge ideas, and no real plans behind them. Seriously, public colleges give tons of money ins scholarships. How do you change that system? How do you insure that all public colleges and universities have the money to pay their employees, maintain their buildings, and educate the students? Endowed funds help with that.
DeleteWe need a lot more details from Senator Sanders on a lot of his plans. Otherwise, he's just a liberal Republican carrying around the binder with empty pages.
Of course the young people will be let down..no way could anyone get this plan through any Congress....this country is too afraid of their shadow to allow 'free college.' My goodness-they are appalled at 'free health care' even though it isn't.
That's rich, you should forgive the expression, your telling us to "think."
Delete3:21am
DeleteI gave up all television news programming about 7 years ago and it's very refreshing. You should give it a try.
As a fellow gay guy, I very much agree with Rachel
ReplyDeleteI was 18 years old when Clinton first ran in 1992. I had just come out as gay and very much supported Clinton because he said he was going to allow gays in the military.
He ultimately compromised and we ended up with Don't Ask Don't Tell. We could serve as long as we didn't let anyone find out we were gay. What's the good in that? I felt betrayed.
Most democrats ran a victory lap when DADT was finally repealed only a few years ago. I was thinking "Don't pay yourself on the back too much. It was your president who compromised and left us with this"
With the economy and other things he was a great president. But still I was left disillusioned about politics and politicians. But I can understand why young are so passionate about Bernie Sanders. I just hope he doesn't let them down.
What did Bernie Sanders do, on a national level, to improve the lives of gay Americans during the 1990s? I'm really curious. Did he promote gay rights legislation; did he propose legislation to grant more money for AIDs research?
DeleteBeaglemom
Well, hon, he hasn't flip-flopped his position on gay marriage whenever it's been convenient to do so. In that way, he will ALWAYS beat Clinton: he has stuck to his stances throughout his entire senatorial career. So sit down, would ya? As a member of the gay community, I can tell you Hillary's flip-flopping has totally destroyed her in our eyes. And in response to someone above, if you believe that public colleges give out a lot of money in scholarships, then why are we all graduating with tens of thousands of dollars in debt? Hmm? I find it sad that we are now starting to behave as the Republicans do, by battling with each other over who is going to get our vote. As much as I cannot stand Clinton, I will vote for her in November, because better an odious Democrat than an odious Republican. Also, please don't hold Bernie accountable for the actions of the "Bernie Bros," whom, may I remind you, he just this week criticized strongly. Clinton supporters have no other leg to stand on when they criticize Bernie supporters than to say either, "Ugh! Women should be supporting Hillary cuz she's a woman!" Or "Ugh! The Bernie Bros are horrible!" Clinton has LENA EFFING DUNHAM supporting her, okay? Y'all can say NOTHING about Bernie supporters, if you are proud to have Lena Dunham supporting your candidate.
DeleteExcept, hon, he did!
DeleteBernie Sanders voted AGAINST gay marriage in Vermont. And opposed DOMA early on. I really hope you read this:
"But Sanders is not quite the gay rights visionary his defenders would like us to believe. Sanders did oppose DOMA—but purely on states’ rights grounds. And as recently as 2006, Sanders opposed marriage equality for his adopted home state of Vermont. The senator may have evolved earlier than his primary opponents. But the fact remains that, in the critical early days of the modern marriage equality movement, Sanders was neutral at best and hostile at worst."
http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/10/05/bernie_sanders_on_marriage_equality_he_s_no_longtime_champion.html
@ anon 6:21 am
DeleteOh quit bringing facts into the discussion, you should know by now the Berniebots are fact proof.
Bill Clinton's stance on gay rights should be compared to the opposition to gay rights at that time, not to what we see today. If republicans had the White House during the Clinton years, people in the military routinely would have been witch hunted out as they always had before.
DeleteThis one, in particular, really gets my goat. I keep hearing how Bernie never flip flops, Bernie has always been a supporter of gay rights and marriage.
DeleteMost Clinton supporters acknowledge her faults.
Most Sanders supporters have him on an impossible pedestal.
Except, hon, Bernie didn't say, as early as 2008, that he supported the traditional definition of marriage, like your Queen, Hillary did. So, once again, I urge you, sit down. And while you're sitting down, please read about how Bernie, while mayor of Burlington, declared a Gay Pride Day, way back in 1983, and was one of VERY FEW senators to vote AGAINST DOMA and Don't Ask Don't Tell during the Clinton years?? See, 6:32, that's a "Bernie Bot" bringing in facts for ya! Sit down and read them. You Clinton supporters love to lob accusations of ignorance, and claim that you have "facts." Meanwhile, NOT ONE OF YOU will answer why your Queen was defending traditional marriage in 2008?? Anyone?! Right. I didn't think so.
DeleteLOL That Slate article take Bernie to task for supporting "civil unions" instead of "marriage" in 2006, but in 2006, that was quite a provocative stance to take, indeed. In the Bush years?! Hell, we're lucky any politician was willing to support even civil unions between same-sex couples at that time!! Nice try, though!
DeleteYou're changing the goal posts.
DeleteThis is what you wrote:
"Well, hon, he hasn't flip-flopped his position on gay marriage whenever it's been convenient to do so."
Sanders voted against gay marriage when it was convenient for him to do so. And then when it was convenient, he was a supporter. I'm not saying he didn't always want MARRIAGE equality, just that he didn't vote that way...and then he did. That's a flip flop (and notice, I also acknowledged that Clinton did the same).
You should be more aware of your candidate's voting record.
And, by the way "civil unions" was not even close to a provocative stance in 2006.
This is so much fun! Nothing better than a divided Democratic election; that's what got us Sarah Palin as Governor here in AK a bunch of disenfranchised Dems voted for the Independent and POW 2.5 years of Sarah Palin as our Governor. Think about it.
DeleteI am a 66 year old southerner, Female, and my husband is 74 years old, and southern. We both are very liberal. I love Bill Clinton, and I really don't give a damn about what he did in his personal life. His business, not mine. Wish he hadn't lied, but none of us are perfect. I think Rachel is one of the best journalists we have today. I don't like that she brought her personal feelings into the forefront. I will now question her every comment about Hillary because she did this. How can she be objective? I thought I could trust that she would be neutral and would just give the facts. As far as him having her back, I will just have to say the country was not ready then. It should have been, but it wasn't.
ReplyDeleteI voted for Clinton both times. With more enthusiasm the first time. I remember becoming increasingly frustrated at the way certain economic and socio-political issues were being handled: NAFTA and the way his administration catered so much to China, a country that has never been friendly towards us or anyone who got in their way. Tibet. Remember Tibet? Well, now look at what's going on with China. They are engaging in cyber war for all intents and purposes, but because our government was so inclined to give big corporations whatever they wanted for the sake of profits we now have some truly serious problems and they are scarcely being addressed with any effectiveness. And so much of this dates back at the least to the Clinton administration being so friendly to wall street's corporate interests.
ReplyDeleteSo I am very ambivalent about another Clinton interest.
M from MD
Some tangent there M from Md. I suppose George Bush suits you better.
Delete7:54, hell no. If Hillary is the nominee I will vote for her. I was in the DC area during the last two Bush the First's years and I survived Dubya's dark reign.
DeleteA person is allowed to express their concerns and if you had been paying attention to all the reports you would know what a serious problem cyber theft, etc. is and how much China has gained by it to the detriment of western business and western freedoms. That said, i am not a fan of the TOP. National news is local news here.
Like that rant? No? Too bad. I would say something rude as a send off, but I wasn't raised that way.
Stupid, censorious auto correct: hell and TPP.
DeleteIt affects me about as much as any first lady's beliefs do. None t all. I am not voting for the spouse of a presidential candidate.
ReplyDeleteThat said, anyone with a D after their name gets my vote. Any other option (see Anon at 2:27) is absolutely UNTHINKABLE when you consider how much we have to lose if a GOPper gets the white house and the ability to shovel shit piles onto the supreme court.
2:27-well aren't we the self-righteous one. You do know that virtually every man in a position of power throughout history had a mistress..or twelve...it is indicative of their levels of testosterone. Now, does that mean it is what I would do, or my husband would do? Of course not. But I also don't think that getting blow jobs from an intern who chased after him makes Clinton evil. He has done more for the human race since leaving office than anyone but Jimmy Carter.
ReplyDeleteAnd how has Hillary lied? Really. You seem to be just repeating GOP talking points. Don't vote for her if you don't 'trust' her. But again, which GOP candidate has not used his office to better his situation? Which of them (Dave Camp, I'm talking to you) has not used their time in office to make contacts for getting some cushy job after they leave or are forced out? Hillary made some speeches. Made some money. If she had nothing of value to say, would they have hired her? The woman has more foreign policy experience than the entire GOP Congressional delegation combined. She knows how the system works. She is not using this run to make more money for herself. If she did not genuinely care about making this nation better, why would she put herself through this circus again, where people are lying about her and calling her names? She is not pathological like Palin. She wants to help, and no one is better positioned to do that than President Hillary Clinton.
As for Gryph's question, I was married, working with two kids during Bill's administration. We were not super-political, but I did hate the pompousness of the GOP and their going after Bill when they were doing worse things and getting away with it. Bill Clinton was a good President. You have to separate the man from the job sometimes. He did nothing illegal, unlike Nixon. He did not start a war, unlike every GOP President ever. He bettered the economy, left a surplus (like Obama seems destined to do.)
The real question is, will we again leave that surplus and relative peace for the GOP to trash again, or will we keep the WH in the hands of someone who can grow the nation for good.
Sally
DeleteIt has become apparent that Bernie supporters' main focus is to take down Hillary. It is literally a vast right-wing conspiracy, hitched to Bernie's wagon.
Yeah, I remember the unrelenting war of attrition the Republicans waged on the Clinton as soon as they got in. I just thought that was as bad as it could get. And then I got to witness the he'll they put Obama through.
DeleteWhat I haven't been able to forget recently is witnessing how well, how strong Hillary was during that day long ordeal at capital hill. Total respect for her on that.
I just wish that Hillary had stood up to him and left him for his indiscretions. One, yes, stand by your man, blah, blah, but the amount that he engaged in? Hell no, kick him to the curb and start over again. Regain your lost dignity.
DeleteI feel that staying with a serial cheater displays weakness of character on her part and sends a message to women that it's okay to be his doormat, especially if he is rich and powerful, don't leave you have too much to lose, and what is personal dignity worth anyway?
I think Hillary and Bill have had an open marriage for decades. Their relationship is none of our business. I had a problem with Bill not being able to keep it in his pants during his tenure a President. I'm sure Hillary felt the same way. Was it enough for her to leave him? I don't know. She makes her own decisions.
DeleteHillary didn't need Bill to become successful and, frankly, it's kind of offensive to suggest the only reason she has had success if because of her husband.
Meh...2:27. First you don't judge ANY woman by her husband's behavior. Second, I still don't see the blatant avariciousness that people claim about Hillary. Just don't see it. A president is not. President of just one group of people, or a dictator. Once a candidate gets to be president, they govern all. Bill did a good job. DaDT. Horrible in light of what we have two decades later. Not bad compared to the witch hunts we had before. Lasting progress comes incrementally.
ReplyDeleteI think that you hit the nail on the head: "Lasting progress comes incrementally." And I'm surprised and disappointed that Rachel Maddow does not recognize and understand that.
DeleteBeaglemom
I remember just being so grateful that we would not have Reagan. I felt optimistic. I don't care about personal/marital infidelity, none of my business. I was disappointed in how the Clinton's handled it. I will vote for either Sanders or Clinton in the general election, over any of the Republican options. But I resent the idea that I would vote for Clinton in the primary solely based upon gender.
ReplyDeleteThis is not about voting for a woman - any woman. No one is saying that except YOU.
DeleteHillary is more qualified for POTUS that anyone, man or woman, has been in a very long time.
As a woman, I want the first female president to be good and not disappoint. I would not vote for a woman if I felt she would not be a great president. Period.
The Clintons have worked their entire life's for their political causes. We can look at it positive or negative. They are human. No woman or man should be prosecuted for their husband or wife actions. Each should stand on their own merits, credits and accomplishments. We can dig up bones and dirt on anyone. Hilary deserves respect. She is qualified for positions that she applies. Just like in 2008, America craves change, hope and positive outcomes. Just think? If more humans were positive? America will lead. If we become what the hateful crave? We are doomed. It is time for media, Hollywood and the grove to do good for Americans. End citizen united and hate.
ReplyDeleteIt is very telling that Hillary supporters are not trying to help her by tearing down Bernie Sanders. Can't say that about Sanders' supporters.
DeleteWhat kind of a "feminist" looks the other way when her husband is cheating on her and chasing skirts and is a sexual predator?
DeleteEvidently, one who's ambition outweighs her dignity.
She can pretend she doesn't have a "Bill" problem, but I think this is one of the reasons she is having trouble with the younger female vote.
Shut up with the "dignity" thing already. Hillary Clinton is an independent woman who can do whatever the fuck she wants within her marriage.
DeleteYounger female voters don't have a problem with Clinton because of what happened when they were infants or toddlers.
You sound like a republican.
As a non white female overall I had no issue with Bill Clinton. The economy was great during those Clinton yrs. But I wish he would have pushed for better healthcare in those yrs for all Americans like his wife wanted him to do.
ReplyDeleteAs for Bill's sex life, just like mine isn't anyone elses business his wasn't my business.
And I like Hillary, but to be honest I was undecided until Bernie started finally opening his mouth in interviews this week and decided for me that I will be voting for Hillary.
Bernie came across as a senile man who thinks he only needs millions of votes to waltz into the WH and have everyone in the Senate and Congress follow him like the piped piper. Well apparently Bernie was either sleeping or completely unaware that President Obama got millions of votes and had to fight to save the country from total economic collapse with no help from the Senate or Congress. But of course senile Bernie blamed all that on the black man this week. Bernie threw away the minority vote this week including mine.
FYI for the record I am non white but I am not black.
Hey,it's not just the minority vote. I kind thought Bernie lost his mind.
DeleteBernie has been in Congress for a generation but there doesn't seem to be any acknowledgement of the realities of getting anything done and he never makes any reference to his long tenure. In any case, I've watched all the debates and one town hall and was very disappointed in Bernie Sanders, I had assumed he had a philosophy for governing but it seems he does not. It's like he's taking advice from Sarah Palin, who believed that crowds gathering and chanting her name and demanding she run for POTUS was all she needed to get the biggest job in the world.
DeleteI voted for Clinton. I didn't like the Monica scandal, but I think he was a good president, if I can separate the two. I will vote for Hillary or Bernie because we are doomed if a Republican gets in office.
ReplyDeleteClinton was a womanizing asshole.
ReplyDeleteHe was, but he was also a pretty good president especially in regards to the economy.
DeleteYep, this week turned me off of one Bernie Sanders as well.
DeleteAnd it took how much to compile the Starr Report? Once the facts were out, he admitted it to the public, he wasn't impeached and the surplus he left for Bush to start two vendetta wars, torture, kill, topple governments, and smooch with the Saudis is much worse than any sex act between two consenting adults.
DeleteWhat man isn't a womanizer IF he is normal! The person above sounds like a jerk!
Delete4:19pm
DeleteWhat man isn't a womanizer IF he is normal!
-----------------------------------
Seriously, you expect this from your partner?
No, most men are not serial womanizers, most of them DON'T fuck around when in a committed relationship and the ones that do, well, they get the comeuppance due them from their female or male partner.
If they fuck around once and get caught, where I come from, they get cut off from sex for 6 months, for the first offense, 2nd offense, cut off from sex for 2 years, third offense, if married we are done and I'm taking half of what you own, not married, I take my freedom and sell most of your stuff while you are at work, and keep the house if I'm the primary on the mortgage, I also keep your car, if I'm also primary on that, if there are kids, then whoever can provide the best financial life can take them.
I'm surprised that Rachel Maddow isn't willing to consider that the 1990's were a different world for gays and for everyone else. Their cause wasn't really "championed" by anyone. Did any candidate in 1992 or 1996 speak out on behalf of "gay rights" other than perhaps to say that money should go into AIDs research? Think about the 1980's and the emergence of AIDs and the way the Reagan administration simply ignored the issue. This country as a whole has moved forward in leaps and bounds in recognizing, then acknowledging, and then doing something about prejudice against gays.since the closing decades of the 20th century.
ReplyDeleteBeaglemom
Totally agree Beaglemom. That bastion of modern liberalism, FDR, was content to keep a segregated military. I would hope that deep down, he opposed segregation, but the realities of that era prevented him from simultaneously getting elected and doing something to end it.
DeleteAs for Rachel, she's right, but again that was a different era. The Democrats may not have had her back (for practical political considerations), but they weren't openly attacking her from the front either, as the GOP did, is doing, and will probably continue to do for the foreseeable future.
Unfortunately, there were plenty of Democrats who also supported a ban of gays in the military.
DeleteI grew up in the 50's in a conservative Catholic home. Bill O'Reilly would have been quite comfortable in my home and neighborhood. I came of age with Kennedy, however, and have been a flaming Liberal ever since. I kid that I am to the left of Barbra Streisand.
ReplyDeleteClinton's presidency was OK. but he was not a Liberal. His presidency was OK but his horrific "ending welfare as we know it", bill and the repeal of Glass-Steagal (sp?) belie his liberal credentials.
I live in a blue state which is not a battleground so my vote doesn't matter. I do agree that we are doomed if a Repug gets into office. Think of the Supreme Court.
Not a single effin' mention of all that President Obama did for gay people at a great personal cost to his presidency and himself.
ReplyDeleteRemember when in the flower of your youth the president would send you to a foreign country to kill or be killed?
ReplyDeletePoor Rachel, the president didn't have her back a generation ago. See how she suffers?
Hey Gryphen -- this is a little OT maybe, but I just wanted to thank you for your blog and for all that you do to write it, maintain it, and especially to ask--and actually consider-- the opinions of others.
ReplyDeleteI started following this blog years ago because I couldn't stand Sarah Palin. I stayed for the witty and intelligent comments, not just from you, but from all your readers.
Again, thank you!
I found this blog when Politico changed to facebook commenters only. I was reading at the pee pond one day and saw a comment that IM was a place to avoid so I came right over.
DeleteNo president is perfect. None fully will agree with all your beliefs. They are also tge product of their times.. Too far ahead of the curve and they will never get elected.
ReplyDeleteI voted for Clinton, both times, he was better than what the Republicans were selling. I was disgusted with him over the Lewinsky debacle.
I have things I disagree with Clinton and Sanders on, but either one of them is again, better than the crazy that the Republicans are trying to sell us.
Precisely.
DeleteWell stated, and exactly my sentiments as well.
DeleteI've been a Sanders supporter since the beginning. Since the DNC scandal about the voter lists I have been getting emails from the Clinton campaign. It's almost like they hacked into the Sanders data and started using it, not visa versa. That said if Clinton wins the primary I will vote for her (ABT), although I view her as a corporate shrill. I also find it insulting it's implied I'm not a feminist because I don't support her in the primary. However, I would not vote for Carly either!
ReplyDeleteI think you mean "shill."
DeleteDemocrat emails can be hell, I signed up for the OFA email thing during BO2 campaign and I just figured out how to get them to STOP sending me mail...I've unsubscribed about 20 times and finally had to email someone there personally to stop it with the emails.
DeleteI happened to Google "who is Chelsea Clinton's biological father?", not really sure why I did. Maybe that Bill and Hillary are pretty good looking and Chelsea isn't. I'm sort of sorry to find out that the candidate for first woman President isn't honest about much of anything...
ReplyDeleteWow, that's really dumb. I mean REALLY dumb.
DeleteChelsea strongly resembles Bill Clinton, he's not very attractive himself, with that big red nose. Chelsea is proof that he wouldn't make an attractive woman. Hillary is not traditionally attractive either but has nice cheekbones, which Chelsea inherited.
DeleteGive it just a few years and it will be Senator Chelsea Clinton!
DeleteYou've cracked the code!
DeleteAlong the same lines, Bruce Willis's children must not be his because he and Demi Moore are very attractive and their girls aren't.
I know because *somehow* I found my fingers googling "is Bruce Willis his daughters' biological father?" *somehow*
You are too stupid to vote.
DeleteRemember how Republicans crucified Chelsea when she was a child - about her looks? It was awful!
DeleteShe's blossomed into a beautiful, smart woman that is loved by her parents. They truly gave her a wonderful upbringing! Today, she is a fine example of them!
Yee Gads, the Willis kids. They are a combo of Bruce Willis and Demi Moore's "Old Face".
DeleteThey threw some hideous girls, that's for sure.
I can't imagine having to grow up in Hollywood looking like those girls, but the old one can dance and did a great job on DWTS; her dancing skills kind of made up for her 'taterhead' face 'cause she does have a bangin' body.
I've never seen Chelsea in a bikini so can't say if her bod makes up for her face, she did score a rich dude though, so she must have some "assets", just sayin'.
My feelings are mixed on Bill Clinton. He did a great job with the economy, banned assault rifles for ten years, and had a good foreign policy, but NAFTA was his doing. I think he could have accomplished more if the Republican controlled Congress hadn't hamstringed like they do Obama.
ReplyDeleteWhile Bill Clinton signed NAFTA, George HW Bush was responsible for negotiating and pushing it. Sort of like George W Bush pushing for the bailout and Obama running with it. The last couple Democratic Presidents seem to finish up the Bush dirty work, which makes you ask, Is there really that much difference in those we vote for?
Deletetwodux is actually Ralph Nader.
DeleteHillary Clinton's voting record in the Senate was more liberal than Barack Obama. She has always been more liberal than her husband and it's completely unfair to judge how she'd fill the office of presidency on the basis of Bill Clinton's presidency.
ReplyDeleteI think Bill Clinton is an extraordinary gifted politician who is a master at campaigning (unless he is campaigning for Hillary). I think he squandered opportunities by adopting his Third Way which ended up compromising too much. I do not know if he could have accomplished anything by not adopting the Third Way, but his doing so has made Democrats wary of true liberal actions every since. I do not judge Hillary based on Bill's record, but I think she is too incremental for what we need now. I do not like the way she over uses "I". I deeply resent the implication that I need to vote for her or I am somehow disloyal to my gender. Last night in the debate, she indicated that was not so, but she laughed uproariously on stage when Albright said there was a special place in hell for women who did not support other women. For me, she is too hawkish, too deeply embedded in the establishment. Yes, you can be part of the establishment when your name is Clinton, you have spent 8 years a First Lady, you are famously wealthy and you have the Democratic establishment behind you and the "appearance" of the DNC doing your bidding, to give you a lock on the nomination. Even if she has not changed a vote due to her Wall Street donations, the fact remains, that Wall Street has bought into her; they did not offer Bernie any money.
ReplyDeleteAnd I deeply resent the implication that I support her because she's a woman. So there you go.
DeleteNo matter what Hillary says (during this particular time!) she is crucified.
DeleteHave you figured out why she uses the word 'I' for crying out loud? She is differentiating herself from husband, Bill.
This race isn't about Bill, it's about Hillary and I can hardly wait to vote for her!
Why do so many gay people choose to wear the dumbest looking glasses?
ReplyDeleteGuess you missed the Gay Agenda Handbook, but it's pretty close to the end and you'll get there eventually. So how's life since retiring, Sally Jesse Raphael?
DeleteWhy do you make the dumbest comments?
DeleteRachel Maddow can be a real whiner. To compare the political climate regarding gays from 20+ yrs ago to today is just stupid. I don't care where she got her PhD, she clearly is like Ben Carson intellectually. She isn't an Obama supporter, either. I've watched her show enough to realize that the more she's in the public eye, the more unlikable she becomes.
ReplyDeleteI think Maddow is great, but nobody's perfect.
DeleteBill did a lot of things right and some things wrong. Families across the country did pretty well, the economy was strong, he left a hooooge surplus, and people are still chomping on and on about Monica and Linda Tripp, we wasted time and money with Ken Starr, and they worked things out in their marriage.
ReplyDeleteReading Rachel's words and putting myself in her shoes, DADT was a major band aid and solved nothing, probably made life tougher for gay service people, and that alone, must really sting all gay people. NAFTA was another issue, but looking back now, what GWBush did as president with that surplus was and is beyond repulsive, immoral, and sparked the torture and deaths of who knows how many innocent people? And for what? "That man wanted to kill my daddy" And sparked all these terrorist groups. But he spoke of faith based initiatives, and his answer to terrorism was "Go shopping". We all remember 911, and he went after the wrong country for the wrong reason first.
Anyway, I'm not going to judge GWBush's wife for what he did, just as I'm not going to judge Hillary for Bills sins. They're married, not conjoined twins.
great introspection on your part gryphen - taking into account those who are different from you. my story doesn't have to do with being gay, but wanting change that should have happened under a clinton admin and didn't. I worked for environmental ngo's under clinton and yes we expected some good stuff, and it didn;t happen. it SHOULD have happened under this kind of administration, and it didn't. it's one reason why I am not a big fan of hillary. she didn't do shit, just like her husband. so bring on sanders, or sandwiches! so tired of disappointment. we need real stuff to happen here so bring on sanders/sandwiches. it may not happen, but all the effort put forth will pay off eventually... even if it doesn't happen with this election.
ReplyDeleteHi this is 2.27am again. I have never been the first poster on a blog, and I knew when I wrote my feelings I would be stirring up strong responses among my fellow Americans. (I am NOT Sarah, just someone who has Fridays off so can loose track of all time following the current election.) Isn't it wonderful to live in a country where we can freely share our ideas without being put in jail?
ReplyDeleteFor me, integrity is the top quality for public service. I was new in a career in the corporate world in the 90s, and any other CEO would have been fired for sexual misconduct with a subordinate(s), for what Bill did at his workplace.
Yes, I agree there are several names on the Republican list that also lack integrity. I won't go there. The voters will take care of them.
I personally can not get past the millions of dollars that HRC has raked in. There is no way these speeches can be anything but bribes paid in advance of her being elected to another DC position. I'm not saying that I hold public servants to the Mother Theresa standard, where they give of all feely and die in poverty, but Hillary appears to lack integrity from where I sit. I was hoping to generate civil and intellectual conversation about this, not just name calling!
My strong distaste for the Clinton's means I would never be voting for them, irregardless of who else is on the candidate list. Obviously I am not the only one who feels this way or HRC would not have a 53% unfavorable rating. If there is a silver lining to this current FBI investigation, it is that if they came out saying there was no treason, public corruption, or personal graft involved on the part of Hillary I do believe I would rationally consider the facts and could change my mind about her. But anyone telling me just because I have ovaries I must vote for her will get no where. And anyone trying to name call or shame me will also get no where.
And anyone telling me the ONLY reason I'm voting for Clinton is because I have ovaries is just as guilty.
Delete"The voters will take care of them."
DeleteExcept they didn't and they don't and many of them are the same assholes who have hamstringed President Obama, went after Bill Clinton (and Hillary Clinton for that matter).
It sounds as if it doesn't really matter to you what the FBI investigation turns up or doesn't turn up. Your only explanation for her getting paid for those speeches is that she was taking a bribe. If you feel that way, don't pretend that zero (or more piddly nothing) findings from yet another FBI investigation will make a difference to you.
DeleteLike so many Republicans, it won't matter to you what the FBI report says because you think she has no integrity and is actually capable of committing TREASON. How many Benghazi investigations were there, for example? And they STILL want more.
This isn't an attempt to shame you.
From your comments, it's clear you've made up your mind that even having a Republican president would be better than having Hillary Clinton in the White House. No shaming. In fact, you should just own it.