Courtesy of Vox:woooo this is fun, is everyone having fun? I am pic.twitter.com/lGCtexmsfK— Matt Bruenig (@MattBruenig) February 8, 2016
Fresh from his win in New Hampshire, it's now clear that whether or not Bernie Sanders wins the Democratic nomination outright, he's already won in another, perhaps more important way: His brand of politics is the future of the Democratic Party.
Sanders is the overwhelming choice of young voters, scoring a staggering 84 percent of voters under 30 in the Iowa caucuses and projected to do better in New Hampshire.
Any young and ambitious Democrat looking at the demographics of the party and the demographics of Sanders supporters has to conclude that his brand of politics is extremely promising for the future. There are racial and demographic gaps between Clinton and Sanders supporters, but the overwhelming reality is that for all groups, the young people are feeling the Bern.
Whether the first Sanders-style nominee is Sanders himself or Elizabeth Warren or someone like a Tammy Baldwin or a Keith Ellison doesn't matter. What's clear is that there's robust demand among Democrats — especially the next generation of Democrats — to remake the party along more ideological, more social democratic lines, and party leaders are going to have to answer that demand or get steamrolled.
Well I have to say that I am certainly on board for a more Left leaning Democratic party.
However I am also a pragmatist, and I know that the most important thing to do is win elections.
If we are to move the party, and by extension the country, to the Left, we are going to have to do it incrementally and not expect one big election to get us there overnight.
And let's not forget that while the youth of America is pushing the Democratic party to the Left, that the base of the Republican party is pushing it toward the Right.
Sure most of that base is either sucking oxygen out of tanks while watching Fox News on the TV, or clogging their arteries with pork rinds and washing them down with cheap beer while listening to Right Wing talk radio, but they are still going to cling to life for a few more election cycles, so Democrats are going to have to play the long game.
Besides revolutions are notoriously bad for economies and government stability, so while that might play well with young anarchists, the older middle of the road voter is going to wake up in a cold sweat at the very thought of it.
So here's my thought.
We all join forces to help get Hillary elected in 2016, she chooses Elizabeth Warren as her VP, and in 2020 Hills takes a pass and throws her support behind Warren.
For some reason I have the unshakable feeling that Hillary simply cannot win two terms. So in my opinion this is the best case scenario.
Just a thought.
No! Not with the "incrementalism" again!
ReplyDeletenothing wrong with revolution as long as the players are in it to win it and not republicans desguised as berniebros. Take Cornel West, for instance.
DeleteIt would be a revolution just to have Bernie supporters actually vote in all election. Now that is change I can believe in.
DeleteNo! Not with the "incrementalism" again!
Delete*****************************************
I agree 100%! Alberta, the Texas of Canada, had their own revolution just last year: https://newrepublic.com/article/121730/how-socialist-party-just-took-over-texas-canada
"On Tuesday night, the near-unthinkable happened here in Canada when the New Democratic Party (NDP) stormed to a commanding majority in Alberta's provincial elections. To explain this in American terms: Imagine that Texas just overwhelmingly elected a legislature dominated by a left-wing party that opposes major oil pipeline projects; promises a core review of the obligations that oil and gas companies have to their communities; and favors fundamentally rethinking the tax structure toward large-scale redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor. Oh, and it's going to insist that climate change is real, man-made, and should bear on any policy that involves burning more hydrocarbons.
"Even this comparison is tough, because Americans don't support a mainstream party as unabashedly left-wing as the NDP. (The Greens would be a decent analog. Or a breakaway party of Bernie Sanders acolytes.) Publicly NDP members say they're “social democrats,” but most of its members, like Canadians at large, use that term interchangeably with “socialist.” Alberta has traditionally been unyielding soil for the NDP. The province is defined by its vast fossil fuel reserves, comparable to Saudi Arabia in its oil underfoot. Once oil was discovered there in the 1940s, actual Texans rushed up to establish companies and, concomitantly, a pro-capital, pro-religion, pro-firearm style of politics that the rest of Canada regards as distinctly American. For 44 years before Tuesday night, a span of twelve straight elections, Alberta has been run by the Conservative Party, a decent analogue to the Republican Party. Before that was nearly 40 years of even more conservative rule under the Social Credit Party."
That's fascinating about Alberta, thanks for sharing!
DeleteHow about elect Bernie, he has Warren as his VP, she does way more than other VPs have, and Warren becomes Pres if Bernie dies.
ReplyDeleteHow bout dat?
A good majority of Bernie's supporters are republicans trying to derail having a democrat in the White House.
DeleteA good majority of Trump's supporters are democrats trying to derail having a republican in the White House.
DeleteBingo 7:17 and 7:27
DeleteExcept Trump's supporters really are republicans, just like Bernie's supporters. They have the stupid vote locked up.
Yep, I prefer your version. Doubt Hillary and Warren could work together.
DeleteHRC Union Killer!!!
DeleteIn six years as a member of the Wal-Mart board of directors, between 1986 and 1992, Hillary Clinton remained silent as the world's largest retailer waged a major campaign against labor unions seeking to represent store workers.
Clinton has been endorsed for president by more than a dozen unions, according to her campaign Web site, which omits any reference to her role at Wal-Mart in its detailed biography of her.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=4218509&page=1
Why couldn't they work together?
DeleteI'm not sure how she could do way more than other VPs have. the Vice President has set duties and powers.
DeleteExcept Dick Cheney, of course. But that didn't count because he was actually the president.
Ha! What wishful thinking! Look, we know all of you are scared, but to reassure yourselves by saying that Bernie's supporters are Republicans-in-disguise... I mean, really!! But hey, if that will help you sleep at night, by all means, believe it. I assure you, Bernie's support, especially amongst young voters, is very real. That is, we are all very real Democrats. Deal with it. Your precious Hillary can't buy our support, so you have to pretend that we're Republicans in disguise!! LOLOL Freaking pathetic.
DeleteI seriously see Karl Rove lurking in the shadows behind Bernie's 'popularity.' Rove notoriously hates Hillary and will do everything in his power (and he still wields a lot of it and clout) to keep Hillary outbid the White House. Plus, Rove is still a Bush loyalist, and assumes that Hillary would beat Jeb by a wide margin. But Sanders beat Jeb? Not likely. Therefore, Rove's hand is all over this feel the Bern crap...
DeleteHills and the Bushes are likethis. No way would Karl Rove be promoting Bernie Sanders against Hills. Rove saw what happened in 2008 -- and 2012.
DeleteNader. 2000. You're welcome.
Delete8:06am
DeleteIt's the only way some people can explain away the fact that every Democrat or Independent doesn't love HRC.
Nader!!!
DeleteThank you for writing "some people" instead of "all Clinton supporters," 10:54.
DeleteBerniebros think nobody sees that every comment in support of Sanders is a dig at Clinton. Clinton supports just talk about Hillary's record, never mentioning Sanders.
DeleteHe won't win with Warren as his VP.
DeleteAnd we need Warren in Congress. She'd do more good there than as VP.
We will all join forces to get whichever one of them (Hill or Bern) elected, because a GOP win means Hitler is here.
ReplyDeleteLet's hope we can join forces. The vitriol on both sides feels like there will be democrats who stay home if "their" candidate doesn't win.
DeleteAnd, truthfully, I've read it more on the Sanders side.
7:50 I have watched Senator Sanders for SEVERAL months. He is "right on" on his issues. I FREAKED OUT when he decided to run. I hoped he had HRC's back and would present the issues and solutions, but now my worst nightmare IS HAPPENING. Read this>
Deletehttp://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/democratic-debate-clinton-sanders-213623
Nooooo!! As much as I can't stand Hillary, and as much as I love Bernie, I will be out voting Democrat in November. Again: better an odious Democrat than an odious Republican. And our most odious Democrats look like heaven-sent cherubs next to the likes of Trump, Cruz, and, more pertinent to Gryphen's blog, Palin. I am not ashamed to say that I do vote on party lines, though many would say one should vote on the person, not the party. But you will NEVER catch me voting for a Republican, and if I have to vote for Hillary in order to do my part to help put a Democrat in office, then so be it. And I would say 99% of the people I know who are Sanders supporters (and believe me, being a graduate student at a major university, I know A LOT of Bernie Sanders supporters) agree that it has never been more imperative to get a Democrat in office than it is this year, and they'll vote for Hillary if it means one of ours gets in. Because Heaven forbid it's one of theirs.
DeleteReally 6:45? Hitler?
DeleteAre you really that dumb?
Yes, yes you are.
I love Elizabeth Warren but I think it is too soon to have two women on the Democratic ticket. (I'm female). We need Elizabeth in the Senate where she can really get things done to support progressive ideas. HUD Secretary Julian Castro would be a good choice for VP; other possibilities include Martin O'Malley and Sherrod Brown.
ReplyDeleteHRC is a part of the problem, not the solution!
ReplyDeleteBerniebro cleanup aisle 653
DeleteHillary Rodham was the President of the Young Republicans at Wellesley.
DeleteNo wonder she seams hawkish!
Hillary Rodham was the President of the Young Republicans at Wellesley.
DeleteOne a rethuglican, always a rethuglican!
Elizabeth Warren was a Republican until the mid-90s.
DeleteBernie once wrote a pro-rape fantasy short story in the 70's. I guess he's pro-rape today? (See how that works?)
DeleteHe also wrote in 1969 that breast cancer is the result of sexual repression and that if young women want to avoid cancer they should give in to the advances of their boyfriends. As a progressive young man, he was very interested in getting girls to throw off their sexual repression and give it up to progressive young men.
DeleteNo kidding.
"…What do you think it really means when 3 doctors, after intense study, write that 'of the 26 patients (under 51) that developed breast cancer, one was sexually adjusted.' It means, very bluntly, that the way you bring up your daughter with regards to sexual attitudes may very well determine whether or not she will get breast cancer, among other things…How much guilt, nervousness have you imbued in your daughter with regard to sex? If she is 16, 3 years beyond puberty, the age at which nature set forth for child bearing, and spent a night out with her boyfriend, what is your reaction? Do you take her to a psychologist because she is 'maladjusted,' or a 'prostitute,' or are you happy she has found someone with whom she can share love? Are you concerned about HER happiness, or about your 'reputation' in the community?"
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2157403-sanders-cancer.html
[I happen to agree we shouldn't be teaching our daughters to be afraid of sex, but Sanders really goes overboard and here and in some other writings, he kind of makes it all about giving in to the boyfriend's advances]
Check histories of ALL politicians folks. The majority of them have switched parties throughout their careers.
DeleteWe are all so idealistic when young, but aging and life experiences change us. Thus, why we see the changes made by politicians. We just don't always agree with the party they end up in!!!
I'm in Gryphen. Yes We can!
ReplyDeleteHillary 2016
Sanders trails Clinton by 7 points, 46 percent to 39 percent, in the Morning Consult survey released Friday.
ReplyDeleteHe's closing the gap fast!
Clinton led Sanders by 13 points in the last Morning Consult poll of the race before New Hampshire. She slid 4 points, and Sanders gained two points.
Let's see how Super Tuesday looks.
DeleteKeep saying - the polls mean nothing. They are only good for the media and keeping their ratings high!!!
DeleteHillary has the Delegates already - they are the 'final' answer to the election not the popular vote (IF Bernie really gets that!).
Ma'am my I please have another bowl of the gruel you call democracy?
ReplyDeleteI am sure Palin likes those Inky cremental things!
ReplyDeleteHRC is surely not the future, Sanders is adding life to the Dems, young lives!
ReplyDeleteSo did Obama. Now a lot of those young lives are complaining about him.
DeleteThe trick will be to get all those under 30 voters to actually vote. And register to vote if they're not registered.
DeleteI'm female and over 60 and I will vote for Bernie. Not only is Bernie popular among the youth, but there are Republicans and Independents that like what he stands for too. He can draw votes that Hillary can't.
There is also the danger that if Bernie isn't on the ticket, his supporters will not vote for Hillary. And vice versa. That will divide the Democratic Party and give us the same problem we have in non-presidential elections: Democratic voters staying home and then Republicans winning.
They both need to be on the ticket.
this 54 yo white woman says NO to Hilary. Bernie NOW.
ReplyDeleteIt's "Hillary," Bernie Gal. You're welcome.
DeleteI'm glad you're not voting with your vagina.
Delete/eyeroll
Gobbomom,
Delete48 yo white woman (stay at home momma) feelin' the Bern! Husband and I just made our first contribution to his campaign.
This 47-year-old white woman isn't quite sure who to vote for because there's all kinds bullshit coming from both sides about whom I SHOULD vote for.
DeleteThere's something wrong with me!
woo hoo!
Keep sending your-hard earned dollars to Bernie 8:04 AM! You are wasting it! He will not be the nominee! Betcha!
Delete60 year old woman voting for Bernie.
Delete58 year old woman for Bernie! I will vote for Hillary if she gets the nomination though. Nothing is going to change if we don't get money out of politics and it's my #1 issue. We need to get started now.
Delete@11:04, betcha you're wrong.
44 year old woman feeling the Bern!
DeleteIf Clinton wins the nomination, it seems unlikely to me she would nominate Warren as her running mate. Or that Warren would be interested. Warren's vote is needed in the Senate. I see Hillary picking somebody awful.
ReplyDeleteLike either of the Castro Brothers, as long rumored? Yeah, they sound soooooo awful. /s
Delete7:05 to a republican such as yourself any democrat is awful.
Delete[robotic voice]
DeleteYes...Hillary will probably choose a republican because Hillary is actually a republican...beep...beep.
I am not a Republican. I've been voting for Democrats since 1972, and I'm a registered Democrat. And I see Hillary Clinton picking somebody awful, because that's the crowd she runs in. You know, like her soul brothers, the Bushes. She won't pick a woman, especially one who is a vocal, unabashed progressive -- the anathema of Wall Street, Hilary's natural constituency -- as her VP. She won't pick a Castro brother either. She will pick somebody awful, along the lines of Jim Webb. Somebody with a "D" after his name, but a "D" in name only.
Delete7:05
beep...borp...anathema to WALL STREET...Hillary's natural constituency...beep...that's the crowd she runs in...beep...BUSH...BUSH...HILLARY is like BUSH.....beeeeeeeeep.
Delete9:01 I hope she does not pick a woman. I'm a woman, and it's enough that she get into the Oval Oofice as President. She has to go younger for VP. You're afraid she'll go Blue Dog for VP. I don't think so. She gains nothing with that. Nope, she'll try to expand the electorate and the historic nature of her candidacy with a Latino or male African-American VP.
DeleteYou are nuts, 9:01! Hillary would NEVER select a Bush as her running mate. Jesus H. Christ! What rock did you just come out from under?
DeleteNo, she'll nominate Julian Castro to try to get the youth votes and latinos.
DeleteNo name recognition and he's from TEXAS!
No more fucking Texans!
What she *should* do is ask Bernie to be her VP.
The Castros have name recognition and Texas could actually go blue. That would be very exciting.
DeleteI don't know if she should ask him to be her VP. It never works that way and if Sanders isn't president, he should continue his work in the Senate. Would he even want to be VP?
Bernie has already said he is not running for re-election to the senate. So if he's not on the ticket, he is out of politics.
DeleteWe can't afford to lose Bernie now that the media is starting to take him seriously and the public is starting to pay attention.
I'm not sure I would vote for Hillary if she chooses Castro. I don't give a damn about turning Texas blue or courting young or latino voters.
NO MORE TEXANS IN THE WHITE HOUSE!
Why would Sanders not run for re-election in the Senate? That's ridiculous. It's the presidency or nothing?
DeleteTexas turning blue is HUGE because it represents the political participation of all those Latino voters you don't give a damn about, the ones that make up a huge voting block not just in Texas but in many other states.
Some people can't see the forest for the trees.
Sanders already decided not to run for re-election before he decided to run for president. Perhaps because he felt he's done enough or can't do any more as a senator. I don't know.
DeleteIt's not like I don't care about Latino voters or any other voters for that matter.
I'm not willing to put someone on the ticket just to pander to a certain voting block. That's what Republicans do.
Castro has no NATIONAL name recognition and no experience to speak of. What is he? Director of urban housing or something?
And I have had ENOUGH of Texans in the White House. Bush was enough to last me for a long time. Let someone, anyone else have a chance.
Texas can go blue if it wants. That's fine. But I don't want any Texans being put on the ticket just to attempt to turn one state blue.
I don't want any Texans in the white house or any where near it, no matter what the political party is.
If Hillary chooses Castro she is going to lose votes from some of the Sanders supporters. She'll be seen as being no different than the Republicans. People want change. That won't be change.
Some people only care about trees at the expense of the rest of the Forest ecology.
sounds like Bernie is a quitter
DeleteGryph we are very much on the same page about this. I just don't think Bernie can win. I know, I know... the polls. But it's still early.
ReplyDeleteSomeone here posted a great question yesterday... Who would Sanders' running mate be? I think it'd have to be someone much younger, but also with foreign policy experience. That rules out Warren.
I can't shake the feeling that this election is so much about race. Lots of whites coming out for Sanders who couldn't vote for Obama.
A good portion of Bernie's "voters" are in it to take out Hillary before the general.
DeleteA lot of Bernie peeps are GOP saboteurs or pawns.
DeleteKarl Rove said, who believes anything he says?
DeleteHe is most likely backing HRC, the Reps know how to fight her for election.
A revolution scares them to death!
7:19, you are delusional. Suggest you get help.
DeleteNader 2000!
DeleteKarl Rover is a huge JOKE for Republicans! They ought to get rid of the guy if they want to improve their chances in ANYTHING!
DeleteWhat if Hillary was his running mate?
DeleteThat would combine supporters on both sides.
She'd agree as that would put her closer to the Oval Office. Bernie might step aside for her in 2020 or if he should pass away in office, she is our first female president.
You obviously don't think much of Clinton, mlaiuppa. Why would you want her to be VPOTUS?
DeleteShe has experience and savvy and would be great at keeping congress on task. Would also be great as an attack dog.
DeleteBut I think she's too close to Wall Street, corporations and The Family. For that reason I dont' want her making policy.
How can you trust her to keep congress on Bernie's task?
DeleteThat's very interesting, but Warren may not want the bullshit. I do love Bernie but his ideas will never fly if they keep a Republican Congress. My vote will always be with Hillary because of world events. She is the obvious choice, along with Bill to deal with the world leaders and the military...I can't imagine Bernie doing that. Let the VP deal with domestic problems while the Pres keeps us safe. We all know the real problem in this country is lazy voters, uninformed & stupid. Bernie is getting the young voters out which is good, but his wish list is just that...after 30 years in Congress what exactly has he done? He has been consistent in his outrage, I give him that..but Obama has tried all of the things he wants and with this congress, forget it. I love the fact Hillary made the point of so much of this stuff he wants falls to the states, not federal...so good luck with the red states. Sorry Bern..if you watched any of the Benghazi hearings you would see Hillary has nerves of steel and incredible knowledge of government.
ReplyDelete7:10 WTF? "along with Bill to deal with the world leaders and the military." "Let the VP deal with domestic problems while the Pres keeps us safe. " ARE YOU A IDIOT?
DeleteTHAT IS A INSULT TO HRC.
8:14 ~ How is that an insult to Hillary worth of a CAP LOCK?
Delete8:14 is a bernieboa aka troll
DeleteRegardless of who wins the Democratic nomination, we need Warren to remain in the Senate until she's ready to run for President (and the same goes for Bernie if Hil is the nominee). Without strong Democratic leadership in the Senate no Democratic president will get anything done.
ReplyDeleteI agree completely. I don't know if Warren will ever want to be President. She may want to make her mark in Congress. If Democrats don't continue to fuck up midterm elections, I see her as Majority Leader for many, many years to come.
DeleteLove Warren, love for Sanders.
DeleteHRC, all I see is insatiable GREED!
8:48 - guess you don't care about reproductive rights at all or the Supreme Court. Too bad!
DeleteThan you're an idiot, 8:48. Life isn't like a super hero comic book.
DeleteBernie would be a horrible POTUS! Hopefully, you watched the last debate between the two of them. He was not enjoyable to view, and she's faster on the uptick, a better debater and negotiator (already proven!) more experienced in foreign policy, knows heads of state throughout our world already, and would be ready to go the minute she takes the oath as POTUS.
DeleteBernie would NOT be in any way, shape or form!
WTF are you babbling on about 11:00am. Seems like you are just tossing around a buch of bullshit that only you believe. Hillary is just plain awful. Speak for yourself with all your false Hillary accolades. She is a terrible person and would be a terrible president.
DeleteGive him an opponent who isn't evil incarnate and see how that changes.
ReplyDeleteTo me it's simple:
ReplyDeleteHillary can win in November (probably)
Bernie cannot win in November (probably)
Never underestimate the power of 500 million dollars in TV ads screaming "SOCIALIST" at the Independent voter non-stop for several months. (In fact it's already started.)
I pointed this out to a young woman, a 'true believer', and she said: Anyone who would be swayed by that is already voting Republican. I replied: If you actually believe that then the Democratic Party has a huge problem.
Don't forget the line about democrats (especially black folks) wanting free stuff as the reason they would vote for Bernie.
DeleteExactly. This is the problem. Just think about how the republicans went after Obama for being a socialist (and all the people in the country they riled up). Obama never claimed to be a Socialist like Sanders does.
DeleteA vote for HRC is a vote for corporate rule!
DeleteBernie Bro clean-up Aisle @8:49
DeleteWhat about those hundreds of millions of dollars shouting "Communist, Socialist, Kenyan, N*gg3r" ini 2008 and 2012?
DeleteI think either of them can win but Hillary can better help down ballot. How about Bernie for prez and Hillary for vp?
ReplyDeleteNo?
DeleteHillary should not be relegated to VP status, not when she has the most delegates.
DeleteBernie as VP makes far more sense.
How about HRC goes away???
DeleteTo Jail!!!!
Philly K, i said this a couple of weeks ago: Hillary as prez to go out and make the world safer leaving Sanders as vice-prez fighting for citizens' rights on the home front.
DeleteThat's not how it works, 8:55.
DeleteSarah Palin wasn't right when she said the VP is the head of the Senate.
I don't see Hillary picking Bernie as her VP. Keeping my fingers crossed it will be Elizabeth Warren and that Elizabeth agrees! What a team they'd make. Wouldn't even compare to a Hillary/Bernie ticket!
DeleteA two vaginer ticket is a guaranteed fail 10:56.... so absolutely- go for it. Although Hillary will be indicted long before that could even happen.
DeleteIf anyone doubts why we need to put a Democrat in the White House, be it Clinton or Sanders, just read 12:55's comment.
Delete1. Two women on the ballot won't win.
Delete2. Warren won't agree as she has made that clear.
3. I doubt Hillary would choose Warren. Warren doesn't get her anything, whereas there are a list of MEN that can "do" for her. Castro for Texas, latinos and the youth. Some guy in, I think, Colorado who speaks fluent Spanish and is fairly young. Senator I think.
Personally, I think Hillary is foolish not to choose Bernie as she can solidify the Democratic base by uniting the two camps.
12:55 is a berniebro
DeleteI think Elizabeth Warren is great...but I would like to see Hillary win the nomination, embrace some of Bernie's "Revolution" ideas : (as a matter of fact when we elected our beloved Barack Obama, my premise was we needed and might get a Renaissance...not revolution) and select one of the Castro brothers as V.P. They could be the Revolution! Hispanic descent, passionate, very well educated, well spoken (we might even get the Renaissance I hoped for)! I agree with Bernie Sanders that we need a revolution, but they come at a cost. However we are already paying a cost: that of hearing the right wing faction in our country denigrating women, education, race, the poor...etc. I am so tired of it. I am 65 years old, I thought we had finished fighting some of these battles😕. Go Bernie! Go Hillary!
ReplyDeleteHillary won't embrace anything. She'll say what people want to hear and give lip service to some of Bernie's ideas just to pander for votes.
DeleteI hope the dems can win the election without throwing Pres Obama under the bus.
ReplyDeleteSADLY>That happened in 2010, 2012, & 2014...
DeleteI think we'll hear more from President Obama as to this election cycle once the person has been nominated at the Democratic Convention.
DeleteHillary will not throw him under the bus, but the Republican candidate will.
And, I'd rather have Hillary Clinton going up against the Republican candidate than Bernie Sanders. Hillary is much stronger and experienced in politics and could run circles around a Republican candidate than could Bernie. Al Bernie does is talk about a 'revolution' and it's getting old!
Democrats will lose if Bernie is the candidate. But, will win with Hillary Clinton as the nominee.
Plus, she has the Delegate numbers already - he doesn't!
HRC lost, a dirty campaign will begin, history 2008 repeats its self!
DeleteDon't kid yourself, Obama still has a problem with what HRC did to him in her dirty campaign!
9:12 Sadder even more is that Senator Sanders first response was "Hillary that was below the belt". That was used against her with a sexual reference. Yesterday most of us supported Hillary on this very subject. "lame duck" or gloom and dome disrespect shaming of President Obama's unfinished agenda and accomplishments. Has anyone called him out on that remark?
DeleteUnlike you, 12:22, President Obama is an adult.
Delete1:39 His quote was "“Madam Secretary, that is a low blow,” But yes i think it was a sexist put down when it could have been directed at very specific issues regarding what the Presidents record showed.
DeleteOne primary from a small state indicates very little. All that matters in primaries are delegates. That's it - the one with the most, gets the nom. Bernie cannot win more delegates than Hillary even after NH. He literally can't - unless the super
ReplyDeletedelegates completely flip their endorsements, and they won't.
In other words, it is nearly impossible for Bernie Sanders to get
the most delegates for the Dem nomination.
The best case scenario: Sanders recognizes this fact early enough to campaign for a Hillary win.
I really hope if it comes to that, Sanders will actually campaign for Clinton (as Clinton did for Obama). If he doesn't, he's doing a huge disservice to the country.
DeleteOne tie and one lose, go HRC!
DeleteI count two states, not one!
8:52 Do you Bernie Bros every read about super delegates? Ever?
DeleteNo worries on superdelegates...
Deletepetition of SD's to follow the will of the people!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511198194
9:37 - the Democratic Party will NOT bow down to a petition from Bernie Bros! Wake up! A lot of Democrats are mad at Bernie for only joining the party when it was advantageous to him. He's an interloper. Why the hell didn't he join us 10 or 20 years ago? No petition will matter. But fairy tales are comforting, at bedtime.
DeleteHillary already has the Delegate numbers! The popular vote isn't what gets either Bernie or Hillary to the White House - the Delegates do!!!
DeleteGet educated folks. That is the way our government works - like it or not!
I am happy about your enthusiasm; voting is crucial for a democracy.
DeleteHowever: it would be a terrible mistake for liberals to fight among themselves over their two candidates; all it does is make it easier for the right wing to divide and conquer.
I am looking forward to less animosity between Hillary's camp and Bernie's camp: we are more alike than different, and a united front is much harder to beat.
When I point out Hillary has the delegates, it's a fact that matters. If Sanders supporters can't understand the process, they might want to look it up, rather than heap criticism on Hillary for winning.
Sanders' supporters main focus is to take down Hillary.
DeleteWell, the fix is in since so many superdelegates declared for Hillary before Iowa or New Hampshire or before Bernie showed what kind of support he could get.
DeleteWhat happens if the popular vote goes to Sanders but Hillary still has more delegates. Will the party negate the will of the people? If so, that makes them no better than the Republicans and their "brokered" convention.
It will also show that this country is no longer any kind of democracy but is sham run by a few chosen elite. Then our government will not be representative of the people as we will be forced to choose between two candidates that the elite has already chosen for us to vote for.
Since Bernie has been in congress for decades, ALL of the super delegates already are quite familiar with Bernie Sanders' record.
DeleteFREE COLLEGE
ReplyDeleteFORGIVE COLLEGE DEBT
Easy to say to young people
Is Sanders pandering to young people with things he can't deliver?
Sanders gets the young people in college excited to spread the words of Bernie - FREE and REVOLUTION.
Sorry not in Sander's lifetime or college students who are now in college's lifetime.
FREE!
DeleteSpoken like a true rethuglican!
9:37 - are you trying to turn people towards Hillary? Because that's your effect.
DeleteBernie is pushing garbage! None of the 'free' things will be done. He wouldn't have control of it - Congress would. Plus, it would do nothing more than increase taxes for Americans! Simple as that!
DeleteHillary Clinton (and hopefully, Elizabeth Warren) are the answer! Much better qualified by a long shot!
Other countries manage to do it.
DeleteFree healthcare for all too.
And yet, we are supposed to be the "greatest country in the world" ? For Big Pharma, Big Oil, Big Agra and the Industrial Military Complex maybe.
I'm voting for Bernie Sanders
ReplyDeleteIt is time for a Revolution
Wages will be raised
Taxes reduced
Everything will be free
Nobody goes to jail or prison
I agree with
gobbomom 7:03 AM
this 54 yo white woman says NO to Hilary. Bernie NOW
Wife and I are 48 & 56, we're voting for Sanders or Jill Stein.
DeleteJust say no to Hillary!
Say no to Hillary and say hello to President Donald Trump. It's that simple. Bernie and Jill Stein will NEVER win national elections. They are the Naders this campaign. (and nadirs? Just kidding)
DeleteHusband and I are both 48 and we are saying NO to Hillary.
DeleteIf Sanders doesn't win, we are saying YES to Stein.
(and also YES to a GOP presidency, Congress, and Supreme Court; and NO to gay marriage and reproductive rights, because fuck our kids and grandkids, let them start their OWN revolution. No more compromise!!).
Just say no to Hillary 2016!
DeleteAnd say hello to President Donald J. trump!! He's not corporate AT ALL!!! /s
DeleteJust say YES to Hillary Clinton. She will do much more for the country than will Bernie Sanders.
DeleteShe'd run circles around the Republicans and that is sorely needed! Far more experienced, ready and able to hit the road when she wins the White House! Bernie is NOT!!
Say YES to whomever wins the Dem Nomination.
DeleteNever Hillary. Never.
DeleteThe most uninspiring dullard to ever attempt to ride on coattails all the way to the White House.
Were you literally born yesterday, 12:53?
Delete"Wages will be raised
DeleteTaxes reduced
Everything will be free
Nobody goes to jail or prison"
I hope you don't fall when your unicorn jumps over the rainbow int the pot of gold.
2:33 - MISOGYNIST FOR SANDERS!
Delete57 year old woman Bernin' up for a better future for our country. Sanders is a wise man with integrity. He will choose a running mate that complements his philosophy and balances out his weaknesses. I also think we need to keep Warren in the Senate. Bernie is in good health and pretty athletic still from his high school track star days. I believe he could do well for two terms; however the skeptics might feel better if he choose a younger VP just in case.
DeleteIf you have any doubts how he will do against the Republicans, check out these surveys. He has a strong following among the young and independents. People who do their own research, not just listen to the media brainwashing.
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster#2016-general-election
It doesn't help your cause to accuse people leaning toward Clinton of not doing their research.
DeleteMaybe instead, you should listen to our concerns (and my concerns have nothing to do with his health).
It has become quite obvious that Bernie's so-called supporters are only in this to take out Hillary.
DeleteI remember when a McDonald's cheeseburger was 25 cents each and a gallon of gas was 25 cents a gallon and college was cheap.
ReplyDeleteWe need a revolution where everything is free.
Vote for Bernie
I'm with you and Bernie
DeleteA former board member told ABCNews.com that he had no recollection of Clinton defending unions during more than 20 board meetings held in private.
DeleteThe tapes show Clinton in the role of a loyal company woman. "I'm always proud of Wal-Mart and what we do and the way we do it better than anybody else," she said at a June 1990 stockholders meeting.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=4218509&page=1
I'm with Her!!!!! HRC makes history!
DeleteNothing is ever FREE. Taxes will go up and Americans will pay for the 'free' stuff pushed by Bernie Sanders!
DeleteDon't forget he'd have to get the 'free' stuff through Congress (their approval) and that won't happen!
We need luxury cars to go back to $3,000 and if the car manufacturers balk on hirer wages and cheaper cars and they organize to take their factories to other countries, President Sanders will force car mfrs to stay put in the USA.
ReplyDeleteBernie Sanders has been in politics for 25 years and he is now saying FREE and REVOLUTION?
ReplyDeleteWhere was Sander's Revolution 10, 15 or 20 years ago?
Same place Elizabeth Warren has been (although not as long as Bernie has been) -- in the fucking trenches.
DeleteNo. Bernie has been in politics for 30 years - 25 years in DC already. Warren is a newcomer to elected office. Bernie is an old hand and a political animal, flip-flopping all over the place.
DeleteWhere was Obummer 25 yrs ago???
DeleteHRC was president of the young republicans!
HRC never flip flops, when she can start a war!
DeleteOkay, @9:41 - no Democrat writes "Obummer." We have FAKERS here, trying to hurt Bernie's campaign.
DeleteBernie has no significant
Delete'history' in politics (that stand out!) even though he's been in Congress for eons.
Doesn't say much for him or qualify him to hold the office of POTUS. He won't be elected! Just don't see it!
The media is building him up and trying to bring Hillary Clinton down!
Get out the vote and mark your ballot for Hillary Clinton!
Uh god posts like yours are so sticky sweet annoying 10:30... so annoying I will never ever join you in voting Hillary. Never. You have solidified my position.
Delete10:37
DeleteYour stupidity supersedes that of a Palin
10:38. No one but Hillary herself is bringing her down. She doesn't see it, obviously.
DeletePresidential candidates can say whatever they want, make all the promises they want. Nothing's going to truly change when we've got a "roll over and play dead" congress.
ReplyDeleteYoung people get excited when a new FREE app is announced for our smart phones.
ReplyDeleteNothing is free
Do these young people know what these FREE apps are searching for in our phones? Know what information is being copied?
That's why we need Bernie to get everything free for our college kids.
FREE is a rethug buzz word!
DeleteYou're a buzzed out rethug!
nice try
9:44 - Democrats don't call each other "Rethugs." You're a fake.
DeleteDon't think that free college won't come with heavy stipulations such as maintaining a B+ grade average in order to qualify for your college stipend. I don't think Bernie just wants to have every Tom, Dick and Harriet enrolled in college for free just because, I believe he wants to pay for college for those that will earn the benefit.
DeleteHow do you know? Has he given any details?
DeleteHRH Hillary will have us in another foreign disaster before the confetti is swept up after the Inaugural Ball. I certainly want a Democrat to win the upcoming election, but I seriously doubt my ability to vote for Billary again.
ReplyDeleteNader 2000! Purity tests for all Democrats and left wingers!!!!
DeleteEnjoy your Republican controlled White House, Senate and Congress.
DeleteSarah Palin is a sure thing who will beat Bernie Sanders. Bernie offers free college. Sarah can offer no college with other benefits.
ReplyDeleteI want Sarah Palin to be president. Nobody is better at finding ways to not work, live free and make tons of money.
If you want that lifestyle, donate and give your best to SarahPac.
My partner and I are for Sanders, Hillary is to hawkish for us. No reason to make war for only for the sake of profit.
Delete+10000000!
DeleteNader 2000 + 10000000!!!!
DeleteWhy bring Sarah Palin into this subject, 9:15 AM? She's not even mentioned in the picture on the national scene anymore. You don't even see Trump pushing her at his gatherings!
DeleteShe's done! Forget about her! She's milk toast!
I couldn't tell where those numbers in the chart came from. If from New Hampshire, it's not reflective of Democrats. New Hampshire had an open primary and Bernie's win was credited to independent, not Democratic, voters.
ReplyDeleteSanders is running a populist campaign, stirring up anger at a common enemy, Wall Street-the 1%-millionaires-billionaires. (Consider the voters interviewed prior to New Hampshire's open primary who were trying to decide between Trump and Sanders.) His formula won't create an effective or long-lasting revolution.
I'd be interested to see Sanders' revolution compared to Ron Paul's revolution...or to Tom Hayden or Ralph Nader.
He is, in effect, Nader 2000. I like Bernie. I donated a few bucks to him last year. I've spoken to him on the radio before. But he cannot carry a national election. I'm with HRC.
DeleteWatched Rachel Maddow's show the other night and she indicated Nevada not being a poll state due to having caucuses. (Same for Alaska!)
DeleteBut, someone out there is pushing a poll supposedly done in Nevada? Doubt their numbers are accurate!
Who is more likely to sway independent, undeclared and non-partisan voters. Because that is who is going to win.
DeleteIf Bernie gets the Democrats plus the Independents, et all, he wins.
If it's between Hillary and Trump, who will get the Independents. Because Republicans will vote for Trump (Or Rubio or Cruz or whoever) no matter what. Democrats will vote for Hillary. Whoever sways the middle will win. I'm not sure Hillary could get them to vote for her.
As we saw w/Obama-yeah, the ideals are great, but the ability to move them through congress is a far different task. Youth don't see this as they are, well, youth.
ReplyDeleteHe's got good ideas and some history in the greater field, sure. I'm just not feeling the Bern has a proven history of success in that type of setting or on the world stage like Hillary's wife of president, senator and secretary of state experiences show.
I just don't see the interest in Bernie Sanders. Especially as POTUS. He'll increase taxes horribly if everything were done that he seems to want accomplished as POTUS.
ReplyDeletePlus, he thinks Congress (if Republican majority) would work with him. He'd be very much disappointed. Hillary Clinton will have a tough time with them too, but she has bigger balls, experience and knowledge than the majority of Republicans that are currently 'the do nothings' and 'haters' of our society!
I just don't think he'll get the nomination. I think Hillary Clinton well. Don't forget the Delegate numbers!
Next question - do folks think Elizabeth Warren would run w/Hillary? Vice President slot? I would love seeing the two of them elected. What an amazing duo they'd make. I'd vote for their ticket in a split second!
If the strong youth interest in liberal policy and candidates is supported by them actually getting to the polls for midterm elections then they will have the government they crave, if not, then it's business as usual.
ReplyDeleteLet's just hope that their excitement in ideology translates to an excitement to get out the vote.
Interesting chart and, yes, Democrats need to pay attention to young voters. But the context in New Hampshire is important--more young voters voted for GOP candidates than for Bernie and Hillary.
ReplyDeletePlease, dear Democrats, don't throw away the advances made during the Obama years, especially when the majority of Americans view Pres. Obama favorably.
VERY INTERESTING READS>
ReplyDeletehttp://www.salon.com/2016/02/12/this_is_why_hillarys_losing_the_failing_strategy_that_could_cost_her_everything_and_the_bernie_sanders_ad_that_exploits_it_perfectly/
THIS TOO>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/churchformen/2016/02/how-father-wounds-are-changing-politics/
It's funny how his age doesn't come up nearly as often as it does for Hillary.
ReplyDeleteIm on board with you, Gryphen. Change takes baby steps, just look how hard our current president's worked and what he's accomplished, against all odds. Just imagine how much more if he had some help from across the aisle.
ReplyDeleteI was amazed at our youth when I worked with OFA, he ran a remarkable election like a well oiled machine and got people excited. I was on the fence, but I'll be damned if we hand anything over to the GOP, especially the presiency. I'm for Hillary, but will vote for whomever the candidate happens to be on the Democratic Ticket, anything's better than watching idiots undo the progress and send our country down the drain.
Endorsements this early in the game are for authoritarians. It's actually time to listen and do some homework.
ReplyDeleteNo! Not with the "incrementalism" again!
ReplyDelete*****************************************
It's taken forty years of Movement Conservative and Neo-Liberal presidents to get America to where we're at right now. I'm not prepared to wait forty more to right the ship. If FDR took an incrementalist approach the Great Depression would have lasted until 1970. Blow. It. Up.
for 12:22pm
ReplyDeleteHillary (or the FBI) will take herself down. Bernie and his supporters don't have to worry about doing it.
Just saw Michael Moore's newest movie Where to Invade next. This movie is exactly what we need right now to show that Bernie isn't selling pie in the sky, and why are we settling for less than what we need/deserve? We don't know how the rest of the world is living, and we are convinced that we are #1 while we accept low wages, no sick leave, food stamps, prison sentences to take out generations of people to do slave labor.
ReplyDelete****** Hilariously Fun to Watch with Unexpected Twists
DeleteThis isn't just a great documentary, it's a great film, with jaw dropping reveals and unexpected twists. By about 5 minutes into the film I was hooked and at the edge of my seat as the rest of the two hours flew by; I didn't want it to end, which is always a good sign.
To be clear, this film is not about U.S. military interventions like Fahrenheit 9/11, as I suspected, but rather an ironic look into the discordance between American values and American actions; not abroad but at home. It takes us outside our world only to look back at ourselves as if we were strangers. We get to see our values around health, education, incarceration, violence, and fairness in a new light. And, without giving too much away, the film culminates with a big twist that is marvelously compelling.
As a result, this film has stuck with me. It has been months since I first saw the film at the Chicago International Film Festival, where it won the Founder's Award, and I find myself thinking about the film at least weekly, which finally prompted me to write this short review.
I'm telling everyone I meet to see this film, and to bring their friends, kids, neighbors. Plan some time to talk afterward! I can't wait to see it again myself.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4897822/
Democrats turn out for presidential elections and then ignore mid-terms, governorships, local assemblies, school boards, etc. For republicans, the lowest, most insignificant elected or appointed position is important because it's in those small out of the way places their philosophy can be planted and take root. A lot of damage can be done in those 'tiny' elections. The gradual takeover of American politics has been in the works for decades. Democrats get fired up every four years. Neither Clinton nor Sanders are the answer in themselves. Neither will save us from ourselves. Republicans have been so deft at defining liberals, I think most liberals believe them, which is why they defer to progressive or moderate or whatever. We still cling to the misguided belief that reason and goodness will win the day, that republicans will do the right thing when confronted with the truth. They won't. They never do. They'd rather lie and watch you suffer than speak ill of their party and their backers.
ReplyDeleteThe revolution Sanders speaks of is one of beginning to restore faith and trust in the system. It's not about free stuff. It's about fairness. It's easy to get caught in the propaganda of both sides. For example, why do I continue to think Sanders is not electable? Because I have been indoctrinated by a media that tells me that. Is Clinton's experience the be all and end all? Maybe, but Obama has been a pretty decent president without comparable experience. Time for democrats to get a game plan and to review all of their assumptions.
Far more dem primary voters in Iowa and NH in 2008 then in 2016. Bernie's revolution has petered out.
Delete|
ReplyDeleteThe Clinton System Donor Machine:
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/01/30/clinton-system-donor-machine-2016-election/
'nuff said!