Monday, March 07, 2016

Let's talk Democratic debate, shall we?

That video up above was from one of the few times that Hillary and Bernie were on exactly the same page.

For the rest of the night though they might have been close on an issue there were still enough differences to allow conflict. Which at this point in the game they both welcome.

In fact there were a few times when I feared that the whole thing would devolve into something similar to the childish antics offered by the GOP debates.
But fortunately they never quite went there.

Anderson Cooper is seemed was forever telling Hillary Clinton that her time was up, and she seemed to be forever ignoring him and finishing her damn answer anyway.

Bernie sandbagged with accusations of being in bed with Walls Street and over her support for "disastrous" trade deals.

For her part Hillary hit Sander hard over his lack of support for the auto bailout and his vote to protect gun manufacturers from lawsuits, which Mother Jones characterizes as derailing the county's best chance to fight back against gun deaths: 

More than a decade after its passage, the PLCAA is at the center of a fierce debate over gun control between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, the leading candidates for the Democratic presidential nomination. As a senator from New York in 2005, Clinton voted against the PLCAA; Sanders, then in the House of Representatives, voted for it, as he had done for an earlier iteration of the measure that failed in 2003. Recently, Clinton has accused Sanders of bowing to the National Rifle Association on this key piece of legislation. Sanders, who hails from a rural state with lax gun laws, has defended his vote as a way to protect the "small mom-and-pop gun shop" in Vermont from frivolous lawsuits. 

But Sanders' argument obfuscates the true impact of his vote—namely, that the lawsuits he helped derail once represented the most viable effort in decades to stem the flow of guns onto the black market.

All in all it was a rather aggressive debate, probably made even more so by the fact that Sanders won the Maine primary right as the debate started in Michigan.

Right now, not counting super delegates, Hillary has 673 delegates to Bernie's 470.

Though I do not see a clear path for Sanders to win this nomination I also do not see him leaving the race anytime soon.

In other words, if I may borrow a line from the great Bette Davis, “Fasten your seatbelts. It’s going to be a bumpy night.”

76 comments:

  1. Anonymous9:12 AM

    Saw this on Reddit a few days ago:

    Bernie is authentic.

    He doesn’t have to change who he is to make himself more likeable.

    We know that he was fighting for gay rights in the 80’s before anyone else was.

    We know he voted against the Iraq war.

    We know over 200 leading economists have endorsed his policies.

    We know he has the highest approval rating of any senator or member of Congress.

    We know he has over 30 years of experience in elected office, if that isn’t experience, I don’t know what is.

    We know that in August, 28,000 people showed up in Portland to see him speak at a rally and there was no media coverage of the event what-so-ever from mainstream media.

    We know that in matchup polls, Bernie beats all the top republicans in a landslide while Hillary loses to all of them except for Donald Trump who only wins by a small margin.

    That should scare you!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous9:24 AM

      The matchup polls don't take into account the effect of nonstop "OMG SOCIALIST" ads the Republican SuperPAC hate machine would crank out if Bernie wins the nomination. The stupids will fall for it.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous9:27 AM

      Bernie Sanders Claims He’s a Longtime Champion of Marriage Equality. It’s Just Not True.

      "But Sanders is not quite the gay rights visionary his defenders would like us to believe. Sanders did oppose DOMA—but purely on states’ rights grounds. And as recently as 2006, Sanders opposed marriage equality for his adopted home state of Vermont. The senator may have evolved earlier than his primary opponents. But the fact remains that, in the critical early days of the modern marriage equality movement, Sanders was neutral at best and hostile at worst."

      http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/10/05/bernie_sanders_on_marriage_equality_he_s_no_longtime_champion.html

      On gun control:

      Delete
    3. Anonymous9:28 AM

      Hillary Clinton correct that Bernie Sanders flip-flopped on liability for gun makers, sellers

      http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jan/17/hillary-clinton/fact-checking-gun-manufacturer-liability-bernie/

      Delete
    4. Anonymous9:32 AM

      "Ignore hypothetical matchups in primary season – they also measure nothing."

      http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/harrys-guide-to-2016-election-polls/

      Delete
    5. Anonymous9:51 AM

      National polls mean nothing at this stage of the race. The presidential race is fifty separate elections. Bernie could beat all of the Republicans by a gazillion votes in California and lose the other 49 states by one vote and would not win the election. Bernie hasn't been the target of twenty-five years worth of Republican smears like Hillary has. Wait until their smear machine gets rolling. Despite what you may think, most Americans know nothing about him (it's a sad commentary on how disengaged the electorate is, but true just the same). There isn't much more they can throw at Hillary at this point. The electability argument for Bernie just doesn't hold water.

      Delete
    6. Anonymous10:02 AM

      Actually, some very prominent economists have spoken out that his policies aren't viable. Vision is cool, but how do we get from here to there. I wish there was a stronger coalition from the Senate showing me that he can put together the support he'd need to execute the vision.

      Delete
    7. Anonymous10:30 AM

      Dear 10:02,

      We not only need to vote Democrats on the Presidential ticket but on state and local elections as well. How do you think Republicans have risen to so much power? Because we weren't paying enough attention and not enough of us showed up to vote in non-presidential election years. Vote them OUT!

      Delete
    8. Anonymous10:47 AM

      He lost me at "I'm talking!"

      Delete
    9. Anonymous10:49 AM

      10:02 AM - why mid-terms are so important. You can bet that Hillary and he will be met with the same obstruction that President Obama had.

      Delete
    10. Anonymous11:05 AM

      Reddit is the home of the Bernie Bros.

      Everyone I talk to that has gone off Bernie Sanders has cited his inability to prevent his own campaign from going ugly as the reason.

      Delete
    11. Anonymous11:07 AM

      Yes, "over 30 years of experience in elected office"... and what does he have to show for it?

      Delete
    12. Anonymous11:26 AM

      10:47 Oh yes!
      https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/07/what-bernie-sanders-still-doesnt-get-about-interrupting-hillary-clinton/

      Delete
    13. Anonymous12:28 PM

      Bernie Sanders has the highest approval rating from his own constituent of all Senators. In other words, he is very popular among the people in his own extremely homogeneous, left-leaning state.

      So, how does that translate to national appeal?

      How that translates to national appeal is beyond me. Maybe you can explain it.

      Delete
    14. Anonymous1:02 PM

      It doesn't, because he's a cranky old white guy who's hard of hearing.

      Delete
  2. Anonymous9:17 AM

    N.R.A. Praises Bernie Sanders for Debate Comments on Gunmakers

    http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/03/07/n-r-a-praises-bernie-sanders-for-debate-comments-on-gunmakers/?_r=0

    ReplyDelete
  3. Anonymous9:37 AM

    “ YOU NEVER LOOK GOOD TRYING TO MAKE SOMEONE ELSE LOOK BAD”

    bsmp2 llc

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous11:46 AM

      It's too bad she never takes the advice written for her that she posts, isn't it? Just like she doesn't have a clue what those scriptures she posts mean.
      But then, the entire GOP has the IQ of a snail.

      Delete
  4. Anonymous9:39 AM

    Bernie Sanders Seems to Have Forgotten a Few of His Votes

    "Bernie Sanders has been increasingly direct in his attacks against Hillary Clinton's past positions. But there's only one problem with his holier-than- thou narrative: Sanders' own voting record shows he's often voted for similar measures."

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/03/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-voting-history

    ReplyDelete
  5. Anonymous9:43 AM

    At this stage of the election cycle Bernie could well be the *Obama* from the same timeframe of Obama's first run ..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous10:25 AM

      @9:43
      538 has assessed that pretty thoroughly, and not so much. He's running a state strategy, not a delegate strategy. BHO ran delegate strategy and was in much stronger position at this point.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous10:48 AM

      Not hardly!!! He's a cranky old white man who is hard of hearing!

      Delete
    3. Anonymous11:12 AM

      LOL

      Delete
    4. Anonymous11:47 AM

      Talk about petulant children FUCK Hillary

      Delete
    5. Anonymous1:04 PM

      11:47 - your vile, crass posts here have turned me against Bernie. You are not a Democrat.

      Delete
  6. Anonymous9:52 AM

    Forgot this was on.
    The only debate worth watching.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Anonymous9:58 AM

    Sanders is such a scold.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous10:49 AM

      So sick of him. I truly regret that I gave him any small donation last year. I am now donating to HRC.

      Delete
  8. Anonymous10:39 AM

    O/T -

    http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/03/07/wife-eagles-randy-meisner-shot-killed-home-accident/?intcmp=hpbt4

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous11:21 AM

      Crazy:
      http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-idaho-pastor-shot-ted-cruz-20160307-story.html

      Delete
    2. Anonymous12:33 PM

      A child is never too young to learn gun safety!

      http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2016/03/man_forgot_gun_in_vehicle_befo.html

      KENTWOOD, MI – A man told police he forgot that he'd left his gun in his vehicle before his 3-year-old son found it and fired the weapon, hitting the boy's mother in the head.

      Delete
  9. Anonymous10:40 AM

    Excuse me? Has there ever been a ruder dude than Sanders? Can't he make a point without waving his finger in her face?

    What a disaster he's become. So glad he's losing

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous1:04 PM

      You wish he was losing wachichos

      Delete
    2. Anonymous1:33 PM

      @ 1:04 - so says a Berniebot who sucks at math.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous2:14 PM

      Why would we wish he was losing wachichos?

      Delete
  10. I like both of them. My gripe are the "berniebros" who expect unity if Bernie wins, but won't reciprocate if Hillary wins. The whole "Bernie or bust"; which the GOP are hoping for, means a vote for the GOP. I'll support whomever wins.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous11:44 AM

      I suspect a lot of those folks are Republicans trying to stir the pot. You know they would rather face a firing squad than Hillary Clinton this fall.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous11:46 AM

      I don't like how certain progressives block out the fact that Sanders has voted against gun control multiple times.

      I don't like how certain progressives "have no use for" Hillary Clinton despite the fact that Clinton has voted for and supported many liberal and progressive policies, even coming out to the left of Bernie Sanders on some of them.

      Delete
  11. Anonymous10:47 AM

    OT-http://thinkprogress.org/health/2016/03/07/3757164/self-induced-abortions-rise/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous11:44 AM

      Well, duh. Take away the clinics, and we're back to 1940. Until the daughter of one of these creeps dies of sepsis or shoving a clothes hanger up her vagina, they just do not care.

      Delete
  12. Anonymous11:19 AM

    Unless someone finally puts a baton in Bernie Sanders's hand I'm not watching any more debates. I can't stand to watch him waving, pointing, gesticulating, grunting- being 100% distracting while Hillary is speaking. And he seems to believe that because he's not actually talking that it's OK. It's not OK.

    He has become a two-year-old and I wouldn't want to watch one of those debate, either.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous11:48 AM

      Rolling his eyes, chuckling, etc..

      And people say Clinton is the one who needs to watch her tone.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous1:11 PM

      Five reasons Bernie lost - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2016/03/07/daily-202-five-reasons-bernie-sanders-lost-last-night-s-democratic-debate/

      Delete
  13. Anonymous11:23 AM

    Another take>
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/07/what-bernie-sanders-still-doesnt-get-about-interrupting-hillary-clinton/

    ReplyDelete
  14. Anonymous11:45 AM

    In the words of the late great Ronnie James Doo... your all FOOLS!!! Bernie or BUST... we are not voting for Hillary in a national election... conviction is better than the lesser of two evils... good day sir

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous12:10 PM

      Ronnie James Doo?

      Delete
    2. Anonymous12:12 PM

      Dio

      Delete
    3. Anonymous1:05 PM

      11:45 - illiterate troll. You have turned me against Bernie.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous1:43 PM

      11:45 you are so full of shit you were never a sanders supporter.. take your fake outrage and shove it clear up your ass

      Delete
    5. Anonymous2:41 PM

      1:43 - I bet I gave him more money than you last year. But your vileness has turned me to Hillary. Well done.

      Delete
  15. Anonymous11:47 AM

    I like them both.

    What I don't like is when Sanders supporters can't see his faults. They act as if he's never been anything but progressive and steadfast. He's definitely had a solid history and is far more progressive and steadfast than most, but he's still a politician and has pandered to certain interest groups (like gun owners and more conservative Vermonters). And, yes, he's actually flip flopped.

    Yes, he's done it FAR LESS than others, but don't tell me he's NEVER done it. I'm tired of hearing he's NEVER done it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous12:12 PM

      NEVER

      Delete
    2. Anonymous1:07 PM

      He's St. Bernie to them but fortunately there aren't many of them. Math is not Bernie's strong suit. Otherwise, he 'd drop out.

      Delete
  16. Anonymous12:18 PM

    From the Business Insider:

    "It has become routine for people who obviously never ought to be president, like Herman Cain, to enjoy success in the Republican primary polls for a time and conservative fame — and speaking fees and book sales — thereafter. Sarah Palin has made a similar career without ever technically running for president, raising funds instead for a political action committee that mostly spends money on consultants, giving very little to actual Republican campaigns."

    ReplyDelete
  17. Anonymous12:25 PM

    If Gryphen ever wants a career change working in the great outdoors, he could work in the agriculture industry picking cherries.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous12:36 PM

      Gryphen wouldn't last 10 minutes in the field

      Delete
    2. Anonymous2:17 PM

      That's a lot of words to get to a rather weak idiom.

      (12:36 doesn't get it)

      Delete
  18. It seems pretty clear, a lot of the decisions will be based on style, appearance, and finger wagging.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Anonymous12:31 PM

    It's a shame that people have such poor memories and the media is either so inept or so pro-Clinton that she got away with that "voted against the auto bailout" assertion. Sanders didn't vote against the auto industry bailout.

    In Oct 2008, Sanders voted against the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act that provided up to $700B to repurchase troubled assets from financial institutions.(TARP) Which companies would get how much was deferred by W to Jan 2009 but it was generally assumed it would be banks and financial services companies.

    In early Dec 2008, the House passed The Auto Industry Financing and Restructuring Act. This was the "auto bailout" bill. The Republicans killed it in the Senate using the filibuster. There was never a vote on it in the Senate.

    It was when the TARP money was allocated by the Obama Administration in Jan 2009 that $13.4B went to GM and Chrysler got $4B.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous1:08 PM

      Just stop.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous1:30 PM

      @1:08 freakin clintonites can't handle the truth

      Delete
    3. Anonymous2:40 PM

      Bernie supporters cannot even do math, let alone truth.

      Delete
  20. Anonymous12:31 PM

    White privilege is alive and well on this blog

    ReplyDelete
  21. Anonymous12:34 PM

    Sanders didn't vote against the auto bailout.

    In Oct 2008, Sanders voted against the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act that provided up to $700B to repurchase troubled assets from financial institutions.(TARP) Which companies would get how much was deferred by W to Jan 2009 but when it was passed, it was intended to be allocated to banks and financial services institutions deemed "too big to fail".

    In early Dec 2008, the House passed The Auto Industry Financing and Restructuring Act, but the Republicans killed it in the Senate using the filibuster. There was never a vote on it in the Senate.

    It was when the TARP money was allocated by the Obama administration in Jan 2009 that $13.4B went to GM and Chrysler got $4B.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous1:19 PM

      So far, HRC has won way more votes than ANY candidate: more than Trump, more than Sanders. She's won 4.5 million votes.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous1:50 PM

      A candidate doesn't win the Presidential primaries are about delegates, not votes. General Presidential elections are about Electors, not votes. As we learned in 2000, a candidate can win the most votes and not be the winner of the most electors.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous2:39 PM

      Duh, 1:19, but in addition to more delegates, HRC also has more total voters!!! At least a million more than Bernie does. BS can't say he's more popular than she. He's not.

      Delete
  22. I like them both. I welcome their debate and will be proud to vote for whichever is the nominee. People who would vote for Donald Trump if Hilary is the nominees are idiots...and I have a few idiots in my family... I love them, but they are stupid.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Anonymous1:11 PM

    Unfortunately for Bernie Sanders, he still seems to think that, as a presidential candidate, he is still representing a small, rural state. In fact, even when a person is elected to Congress, either house, that person must expand their perspective to include all Americans and must look at the big picture when faced with legislation that will affect everyone. It then becomes the member of Congress' responsibility to explain to the voters of his district/state why voting for or against a piece of legislation is good or bad for the whole country. Not too many legislators are willing to take that risk.
    Beaglemom

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous1:27 PM

      Bullshit from racist wachichos

      Delete
    2. Anonymous2:37 PM

      You are the racist, @1:27.

      Delete
  24. Anonymous1:14 PM

    Great job gryphen dumbing down most of your readers...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous1:31 PM

      Both the NRA and the Koch Brothers Freedom Partners praised Bernie last night. FACT. Check it out. The NRA for his grant of immunity to gun manufacturers, and the Koch Bros. for what BS said about the I'm/Ex Bank.

      Who is dumb now?

      Delete
  25. Anonymous1:51 PM

    I like both Bernie and Hillary but I'm voting for Bernie in the primary because I want the corrupting money out of politics and love that Bernie has done this in his campaign.

    As far as the gun issue, did you know that Hillary is holding a fundraiser on March 21 that will feature as one of its hosts Jeff Forbes, who until the end of last year worked as a lobbyist for the National Rifle Association?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-nra-lobbyist_us_56d5e214e4b03260bf784001

    Also, she has already taken money from major prison lobbyists.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/marco-rubio-and-hillary-clinton-accepted_b_9191868.html

    I can't get past this issue and believe with Hillary she will maintain the status quo but we will get no real change.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Anonymous2:36 PM

    The NRA tweeted support for Bernie last night! Are you insane?

    ReplyDelete
  27. Anonymous2:27 AM

    Here's an interesting story from Michigan where a mayor says Debbie Wasserman tried to have him kicked him out of debate.

    http://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2016/03/08/warren-mayor-jim-fouts-hillary-clinton-detroit-democratic-debate/81498228/

    ReplyDelete

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