Monday, March 21, 2016

Thanks to Donald Trump Utah might vote for Democratic presidential nominee for the first time in 50 years.

Courtesy of KSL: 

If Donald Trump becomes the Republican Party's nominee, Utahns would vote for a Democrat for president in November for the first time in more than 50 years, according to a new Deseret News/KSL poll. 

"I believe Donald Trump could lose Utah. If you lose Utah as a Republican, there is no hope," said former Utah Gov. Mike Leavitt, a top campaign adviser to the GOP's 2012 nominee, Mitt Romney. 

The poll found that may well be true. Utah voters said they would reject Trump, the GOP frontrunner, whether former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton or Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders is the Democratic candidate on the general election ballot. 

While Clinton was only slightly ahead of Trump — 38 percent to 36 percent — Sanders, a self-declared Democratic socialist, holds a substantial lead — 48 percent to 37 percent over the billionaire businessman and reality TV star among likely Utah voters.

I know that 48% will get all you Bernie supporters super excited but don't bother, those numbers only reflect the fact that he has not been scrutinized nearly as thoroughly as Hillary Clinton. 

I think that once the Republican party is finished sabotaging Trump, and possibly running a third party candidate against him, that Hillary's percentages will improve exponentially.

I also think that this same scenario may play out in all kinds of states that up until now have been considered reliable conservative strongholds.


  1. Anonymous6:26 AM

    Don't underestimate Bernie

    1. Anonymous7:29 AM

      Looking forward to his help with party unity for November. Hopefully we're not overestimating it.

    2. Anonymous7:59 AM

      I agree, 7:29. I'm beginning to think it could go either way.

  2. Anonymous6:37 AM

    Utah has more sleazy and reactionary politicians than any other backwards State in the Union.

  3. Anonymous6:46 AM

    Gryphen, you don't need to dis Bernie to raise Hillary. We get it, you're a Hillary fan. But we're in this together to insure that Turnip isn't the GOP nominee. Let's just hope that Utah gives their votes to anyone but Mr. Tiny Hands. And did you see the turn-out for Bernie in Seattle? Ha!

    1. I did not "dis Bernie." I simply pointed out that the poll numbers do not reflect the reality that we will face in November.

      The GOP is keeping their powder dry where it concerns Bernie because they feel he is the more vulnerable candidate.

      Oh and by the way, I am most certainly not a Hillary fan.

      I am a pragmatist.

    2. Anonymous7:15 AM

      I, too am a pragmatist, and am more than willing to cast my vote for Hillary, but I've long resented that she's guaranteed to win, so I'm excited about Bernie, and still think he has a chance. And I will vote for him if he's the nominee.

    3. Anonymous7:15 AM, been saying it all along. I am voting for Bernie in the primary, and the Dem in the general election. It doesn't matter which clown the Republicans put up. At the end of the day, they're still a clown, and bad for the world.

    4. Anonymous7:26 AM

      I will also vote for Sanders if he is the nominee, even though I'm a Clinton supporter. Gryphen will do the same.

      There are no guarantees, but I don't think it's unreasonable to look at the hard numbers and the hard facts and make a likely prediction.

  4. Anonymous6:47 AM

    Gryphen, I agree with you on most things but the way you talk about Hillary makes me resent her even more. I will vote for whomever the Dems nominate, but this attitude that she's already got Bernie beat is not helping. You are fanning the flames among us.

    1. Anonymous7:30 AM

      Sit down and do the math. You all are being lead astray by non-mathematicians who want $$.

    2. There is a big emotional element to casting a vote: don't underestimate the resentment Democrats have towards Hillary if she makes it to the nomination.

      How many Dems will sit out the election, thinking "Oh, well, my one vote won't make a difference." Well, in some districts, Obama won by very few votes. And the voter suppression is being seen to be very effective in reducing the number of Dems who voted in the primary states where this was in place, giving a huge advantage to the Republicans.

      Do not underestimate the lengths to which the GOP will go in November to win. It is shameful and undemocratic, but then, consider the source and their representatives who have pretty much shut down government for years.

    3. Anonymous8:20 AM

      Anyone who claims to be a Democrat and who sits out this vote out of pique deserves everything they are going to get. I don't care who is the DEM nominee, it could be Bozo the Clown and I would still vote for them over ANY GOPper alive today.
      Anyone who says other wise needs to self deport. They are a traitor.

    4. Anonymous8:30 AM

      Gryphen is fanning the flame among us?

      Who is us? Is this Sarah Palin?

    5. Anonymous9:42 AM

      Unless you are a member of the electoral college your vote doesn't elect the president. I voted for Gore in 2000, he had a majority of the popular vote. Did we have 4 years of President Gore? Nope, see what I mean?

      Midterms and local elections are much more important than voting for POTUS as your vote actually counts.

    6. I wanted to vote for Howard Dean but he wasn't even on the ticket by the time the primary came to my state.

      Resentful? In spades.

      I am more than a little resentful that the Dem Leadership decides who the nominee is, not the voters. Doesn't matter how we vote, they have rigged this for Hillary.

      Big mistake.

      I don't think Utah is an outlier.

      I think if Trump is the nominee that Bernie will attract more disaffected Republican and Independent voters than Hillary will.

      It is taking a chance skewing the deck for Hillary. There is a risk the Dems will lose enough votes that whoever the Republican is, they'll win.

      What if the brokered RNC puts Paul Ryan on the ticket?

      I'm glad Bernie is continuing to run. I don't think any "scrutiny" is going to hurt him as much as it will hurt Hillary.

      And if he's not on my ballot when I vote in June. I'm WRITING HIM IN if only to stick it to the dem leadership who thinks they know better than the people. That is as bad as the Republicans.

  5. Caroll Thompson6:54 AM

    I will believe it when I see it. So many say they won't vote for Trump, but when a regular Republican, from Utah or anywhere else, pulls the lever, I believe they will hold their nose and vote for Trump.

    It is a long way from November and anything can happen.

  6. Do we really care about Utah itself? Because Utah only has 6 electoral votes. Or do we care because it's a bellwether for what other states will do. Or could do. All I know is I don't think there is enough popcorn growing in the whole country to get us through this election!

  7. Anonymous7:24 AM

    No, Bernie supporters have reason to be excited about Utah. Four presidential candidates were in Utah over the weekend and Bernie was the only one who drew a crowd. It was held outdoors and drew 14,000 people. Trump's event was originally scheduled to be held at the state fairgrounds but was later switched to a local nightclub with a max. capacity of 1,800 but attendance was estimated at 1,200. Trump said there were thousands outside who wanted to get in but that wasn't true. Hundreds, maybe, but most of them were protesters. And his remark questioning whether or not Romney was a "real" Mormon did not go over well.

    Can't even find attendance numbers for Kasich or Cruz, just references to "packed crowds". Bear in mind they were mostly meeting in high schools.

    Tomorrow's caucus will tell more, but Utah really does like Bernie.

    1. Maple7:57 AM

      As a Canuck I'm curious about a couple of things: What is the general demographic breakdown of Bernie supporters (judged by those who attend his rallies)? And second, what sort of voting restrictions are in place in Utah and especially in purple states to prevent college students from voting in their college district?
      Anyone know?

    2. I don't know specific numbers. They say young people go for Bernie, older women go for Hillary. But I'm an old lady who is voting for Bernie.

    3. Anonymous8:24 AM

      Well Otto how does it feel to throw your vote away?

    4. Anonymous8:26 AM

      Auto did you vote for John McCain?

    5. Anonymous8:28 AM

      According to my college age kids, all their friends LOVE Bernie and he is wildly popular with the college age demographic.

      Regarding voting, my kids had to vote absentee. Since their current college address doesn't match their drivers license (which is their permanent home address because college kids move around a lot) they would not be able to vote at school.

      It's voter suppression at it's finest. The college kids have to make sure they order absentee ballots from their home precinct, then my kids needed US stamps to mail it back (no postage paid envelopes!) and they had to do it all within a set time frame or the vote doesn't count.

      For the general election in November, I am picking up my kids at their schools and bringing them home to vote early. No absentee ballots for that important election.

    6. Anonymous8:33 AM

      Lots of white people in Utah - only 1.6% African-Americans. 89% White.

    7. Anonymous8:41 AM

      Anon 8:28, tell your college student child there's nothing free except for tuition. No free college.

    8. Anonymous8:24 AM I wouldn't know. The only vote thrown away is the vote not voted at all. And I vote in Every election.

    9. Anonymous9:26 AM

      Anon 8:28-WA caucuses are next Saturday. When our local "caucus boss" spoke to the Head Caucus Boss, it was obvious who the party heads were pushing. Not Bernie, as we've seen for months. I found out for the first time that there is a caucus absentee form. My husband and I are both disabled, with random access to a post office. Since there is a fax no. on the form, and all forms had to be in Seattle by last Friday, we tried for 3 days to fax our forms. The number was busy. For at least 3 days, and maybe more for all I know. More voter suppression, from my own party. At least they bought the stamp for the envelope I couldn't use. BTW-old woman here, who is NOT a Hillary fan. Apparently that makes me an idiot, or un-American, or something. Guess I'll be burning in Hell.

    10. Anonymous10:26 AM

      Who called you un-American?

      It's really not surprising that Democrats party heads are supporting a Democrat.

      I'm sorry you didn't get to vote. That sucks. But how is what happened to you "voter suppression from your own party"? Do you think they purposefully left the fax offline? I checked and there was an option to e-mail it as well as to fax or mail it. That sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

      Here in Colorado, we didn't have the benefit of an absentee caucus form and our caucus was at 7:30 on a Tuesday night.

      It sounds like the Democrats in Washington are doing their best to make sure everyone who wants to vote, can.

    11. Anonymous10:38 AM

      I had to go through the same thing when I was in college in the 80s. I figured it out and voted. Back then, there was no internet to speak of and I actually had to call my home precinct, then mail in a request. After my first election, I figured out how to vote in my College state.

      It definitely takes more motivation and action for a college student (or any long distance voter) to vote, but it's not really that difficult in this digital age and anyone who is that invested in a candidate should do their homework and get it done.

      Register for an absentee ballot in your home state. Do it in person, or online. When your ballot comes, fill it out. Then go to the post office and get a stamp (most campuses have their own post offices and will sell you a single stamp and even mail the letter for you). Mail it before the deadline. If you haven't received the ballot and are worried you won't in time to send it back, call your home state election board and ask what's going on.

      Most college students are capable of doing that, aren't they?

    12. Anonymous11:59 AM

      I don't know where you got your information, 8:28, but students can register to vote at college even if their permanent address is in another state or town. It doesn't matter what their driver's license says. They just have to register locally (in their state) with their school address and provide proof of residence, a college ID, etc, depending on what the requirement is for the state they are in.

      The only reason to drive them home or get an absentee ballot is if they want to vote in their home town/state elections instead of their college town/state elections.

  8. Anonymous7:27 AM


    1. Anonymous8:07 AM

    2. Anonymous8:35 AM

      dRumpf said>
      “I give him credit for having spirit. He wanted to take down those horrible, profanity-laced signs,”

  9. Anonymous7:33 AM

    This is why any left-leaning citizen who says they're in a solid red state and their vote doesn't matter so they're sitting this one out or voting their conscience should think twice.

  10. Anonymous7:46 AM

    Senator Warren kicking a$$>

  11. Anonymous7:51 AM

    JEWS OH NO!>

    1. Anonymous10:21 AM

      What until they find out Bernie is Jewish.

    2. Anonymous10:43 AM

      They know Bernie is Jewish. Do they know Trump's daughter and grandchildren are Jewish?

  12. Anonymous8:37 AM

    Maple 7:57, one thing young college students keeps saying is that they are voting for Sanders because they want free college like Sanders told them.

    Hellooo college students, Sanders mentioned free tuition not free college.

    1. Anonymous9:03 AM

      We are backing Bernie Sanders because he told college students he would get us free college.

    2. Anonymous10:23 AM

      Nothing is free, he is going to pay for free college ie tuition even for the rich kids as long as they go to a public university.

      The payers are the middle class and poor since Congress will never pass bill to raise taxes on the rich or corporations!!!!

  13. Anonymous9:00 AM

    Students protesting they want free college. Neil Cavuto talks to the Million Students March nationwide organizer and asked a few questions. The college Million Students March is asking for free college and forgive college debts.


    1. Anonymous10:11 AM

      I have two young children and would love to look forward to free college tuition for them at our wonderful state colleges.

      However, I'm also a poorly-paid professor working for a state college.

      Bernie Sanders says he want to eliminate tuition for state schools, eliminate college debt, while also forcing state colleges to increase the use of tenured and tenure-track professors and hire more faculty.

      All of that sounds wonderful!

      How is he (or, rather, state university systems) going to pull it off without slashing already low professor salaries?

      I'm not being snarky. I really want to know. Even getting rid of most of the administrative fat won't cover it.

    2. Anonymous12:36 PM

      10:11, closing corporate loopholes alone will save $900 billion. Ending corporate welfare (subsidies) will save $135 billion. Restoring the estate tax for the top 0.3% will bring in $319 billion. (These are just a few of Bernie's projected savings.) The tuition-free college will cost $750 billion. There is money to do this. Europe does it and has been doing it at least since 1977 when I went to college (free, as an American) there. We can quibble about projections of costs and savings, but the point is that if we don't have this as a goal, we will never get there. At least Bernie is making what used to seem impossible possible. I imagine the same debate was had when free high school became a thing (oh, horrors!). It's a matter of priorities and the middle class has been led to expect so little in America that this seems like pie-in-the-sky. Go see Michael Moore's "Where to Invade Next." It will put things in perspective.

    3. Anonymous1:38 PM

      I really want to believe, but I'm cynical about Sanders being able to pull it off. I know how he says it can be done, but I want to know how he can get it done.

      A lot of students who are now demanding (a word used by the million students march) free tuition and forgiven student loans are going to be very disappointed. They aren't looking at these as goals or ideals; they see this as something that WILL HAPPEN if Sanders is elected.

      Perhaps Sanders should have been working hard all these years on getting more and more progressives (or even Democrats) elected at the local and state-level. I'd feel much better about his chances for a real change in the paradigm.

    4. Anonymous8:16 PM

      No President gets everything he/she wants. Obama hasn't, Hillary won't, Bernie won't. Anyone who knows anything about American government will understand this. Bernie's big point to his supporters is that we need a political revolution to accomplish his agenda, and that is true. If young people don't get everything they want, that's a good lesson on the need for everyone to vote. I believe that whatever can be done in that direction needs to be done. Just having the conversation puts us closer to these goals. If Bernie did have majorities in Congress, he would absolutely go for all he wants. Obama could have in those first two years but he didn't; he was too compromising with the enemy. Republicans can decimate an entire state within two years. Every day in Wisconsin we hear about a new damaging bill--recently we have been allowed to carry switchblades! Dems need to be less cautious and accommodating to the other side to reverse such travesty when they have the chance. Maybe we have learned this by now.

    5. Anonymous9:20 PM

      Of course not every president gets what he or she wants. I know that. You know that. Based on what I've read, a lot of Sanders supporters don't seem to know it.

      How many Sanders supporters are royally pissed off at Obama right now because he didn't do everything he said he would (and not just in his first two years)?

      What lesson about how government works and the importance of voting was learned before the 2012 election? I'd say none.

  14. Anonymous11:42 AM

    Gryphon: I'm a Sander's supporter. I like both Hillary and Bernie, but I have chosen to side with Bernie for one reason:

    America actually trusts Bernie.
    America doesn't trust Hillary at all.

    It's not a matter of Scrutiny. It's a matter of almost 20 years of constant attacks on her character. It's not something she can help. It's not her fault.

    But she would have no trust by the American People from day 1 in office. And that, imho, is a crippling handicap.

    1. Anonymous12:02 PM

      "America actually trusts Bernie.
      America doesn't trust Hillary at all."

      What bold generalizations to make.

      Hillary Clinton has the most votes of anyone running right now. Does that sound like America doesn't trust her?

      Do you think most Republicans (who are part of America as much as we'd like to forget some times) trust Bernie?

  15. Anonymous11:47 AM

    Senator Professor Elizabeth Warren's twitter take-down of Trump is a must-see!!! Love her more than ever! She hit on the only way to defeat Trump by exposing him as an impostor and loser. I hope she has started a trend.

  16. Anonymous1:26 PM

    OT VP>

  17. Anita Winecooler4:14 PM

    When I hear "Utah" I imagine the stepford wives meet son of Mitt. We used to live in a blue section of a red section of Philly, and we've moved to the outer suburbs. It's so refreshing to see neighbors getting along, not worrying about vandalism over whose lawn sign you have, Bernie OR Hillary. But every one who has "Trump" or a GOP candidate's sign ends up with them missing.
    I really don't like it, but after having had it happen to me many times, it's kind of karmic retribution, but it still sends the wrong message. We have freedom of expression, if some dipshit still has their Rick Santorum sign out, after he dropped out already, kind of deserves to get it stolen.
    I'm voting for Hillary in this election, but if she doesn't become the nominee, I'd rather vote for Bernie than waste my vote.


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