..... you can see a response to a question about military suicides in which Trump's attempt to pander to the crowd by complimenting them for being "strong" and able to "handle" the trauma of war goes badly awry.
Here is a transcript of his remarks:
When you talk about the mental health problems, when people come back from war and combat, they see things that maybe a lot of the folks in this room have seen many times over and you're strong and you can handle it, but a lot of people can't handle it. And they see horror stories, they see events that you couldn't see in a movie, nobody would believe it, and we need a mental health help and medical and ... it's one of the things that I think is least addressed, and it's one of the the things I hear the most about when I go around and talk to the veterans. So we're going to have a very, very robust level of performance having to do with mental health. We are losing so many great people that could be taken care of if they had proper care.
I wonder if Trump removes his foot from his mouth just once is awhile to wipe the spit off of it and allow it to dry out a little.
Once again Trump has no fucking idea what he is talking about.
He just says words that he thinks his audience wants to hear.
However this time our veterans perhaps heard his remarks a little to well.
I guess my buddy who I deployed with, who suffered from PTSD, and who took his own life wasn't as strong as a roomful of Trump's supporters. https://t.co/iLb5V4PYs8— Corbin Reiff (@CorbinReiff) October 3, 2016
My BF served 15 yrs in USMC w/ 3 tours in Iraq. He has a service dog for PTSD & now works for USSS. #Trump has no grasp of that kind of life https://t.co/qkQOUBOK7L— LawBlarg‽ (@LawBlarg) October 3, 2016
And it made the usually cool as a cucumber Joe Biden just about lose his shit.@iava As a veteran of the USAF I cannot take the way this man speaks about any group of people including veterans. https://t.co/JTuxy9axyH— Kevin Cracknell (@kevin_cracknell) October 3, 2016
Well I guess we should all just sit back and wait for Sarah Palin, that "combat veteran's" mother (With a son who she also clams also suffers from PTSD.), tear Trump a new asshole for being an insensitive POS.
Yep, going to wait right here for that. Should be any minute now.
Yep, still waiting.
Probably taking awhile because you know she is all the way up in Alaska. Wait.....
Soweee!
ReplyDeleteSarah will get right on that because Track has a warrior body. Mama Grizzly has to protect that. She is a barracuda, you know.
Probably we will be hearing real real soon because I understand she is giving a global warming speech at a new car wash in Nome.
It is scheduled for a cold day in hell.
LMAO!
DeleteYou have to KNOW that what Drumpf said about the veterans and PTSD was "A-OK" and "hunky-dorey"...because when the service men and women come home damaged (or as *she* put it, 'different' and 'hardened'), it's all *Obama's* fault, remember? "It starts from the top...."
ReplyDeleteHis attitude is what leads to service members suicides. It has been an ongoing fight over the past fifteen years to get the military leadership to change their attitudes towards PTSD. If someone admitted that they needed help dealing with it, they were made to feel weak, told to suck it up and sometimes punished on their evaluations for seeking help. So they kept their mouths shut and suffered in silence until they could no longer cope and ended the pain. He has insulted POW's, a Gold Star family, called our military losers, accused service members of stealing in Iraq, says he knows more about fighting ISIS than our Generals, says he knows more about the military than people who have served because Daddy sent him to a military prep school, said that sleeping around and possibly getting an STD was "his own personal Vietnam", lied about donating to veterans groups, and the list goes on. I sometimes wonder if some of those retired Generals who are supporting him do so because they don't believe a woman should be CIC. What is their explanation then for supporting him with all the disrespect he has shown our veterans and active military?
DeleteI watched the you tube video of VP Biden. My late husband - an old Marine - carried the people he killed in the line of duty with him until the day he died. A service avoiding putz like Trump doesn't have the empathy or intellect to understand what being a warrior means when the fighting ends. The battle may be over but the war wages on.
ReplyDeleteWaking my dad (WWII paratrooper) from a nightmare was a regular part of my life. You have to stand well back, because the transition to waking state was very scary indeed for everyone.
DeleteTrump is my age. Given the military adventures the USA has engaged in over the past decades, it's inconceivable to me that Trump does not know people that are actively struggling with PTSD. That makes his carelessly offensive talk even worse.
I'm with Joe Biden on this one. It made me lose my shit too. All over FB. I engaged in a lot of argument with Trump defenders last night, too. Not on my page because I guess they've learned to stand clear when I release word bombs. But on two friends' pages. To me this is one of, if not THE, worse things he's ever said. Such a disservice to veterans with PTSD or any other mental illness. Just when we were making progress on removing the stigma of getting treatment he lets everyone know that if you're mentally ill you're weak so vets won't seek treatment for fear of acknowledging their weakness. I hate this man.
ReplyDeleteI'd be the last person to defend the vile grotesquerie that is Donald Trump, but he didn't actually call PTSD sufferers weak. Read it again. He was attempting a rare expression of empathy, and because he's an idiot and incapable of formulating a coherent statement, it came off that way. Everyone's overreacting to this one, especially considering all the truly despicable things that regularly spew from his word hole.
ReplyDeleteYou're right, Henry but he is so inept and stupid he can't even make a empathetic statement come out without insulting people.
DeletePoor little misunderstood Trump dribbling words that somehow just come out sounding cruel and soulless. He does it so often that being misunderstood thingy. Does he deserve a break? NO!
DeleteWords matter. Presidential candidate words matter. Trump is not especially intelligent, but remaining at his toddler level of communication is unacceptable. He is getting well deserved blowback.
But, this PTSD blunder has, yet again, shoved Trump's real evilness out of the spotlight. He questioned Secretary Clinton's loyalty to her husband in a speech in Penn. A campaign ending stunt for anyone but a straight, white, pudgy, old, male Republican. Trump has it easy.
I also find it hard to feel the outrage about his rambling on this subject. In his last two sentences, it almost sounds like he would institute a very very strong program to treat (or prevent?) victims of PTSD. I don't necessarily think that is what he meant (he doesn't know either), but it could be construed that way.
DeleteHe has said MUCH worse more clearly than this (like killing families of terrorists, immigrants pass religious test, round up Mexicans, etc).
Once you've labelled a POW as a loser for being captured, you really, really, really don't get a pass when you slam veterans for being affected by their military service.
DeleteOh, and attacking a Gold Star family probably also means you don't get coddled when you are a freaking turd about PTSD.
actually>The Question? It was about "Spiritual Wellness" and religious healing. ALL Religion BULLSHIT! Listen to the question.
Deletedrumpf is in·iq·ui·tous
No, Trump chose that moment to 'pander' for votes. He chose to bring the word 'weak' into his vocabulary, and no one forced him to make a distinction between weakness and strength. He chose to pander first, which gives ingratiates himself, at the expense of possibly hurting the feelings of families and military who are suffering from traumas and mental illness. He knew exactly what he was doing. He chose to support his audience rather than defend the heroes.
DeleteOh we are not overacting Henry and you are missing the point: Trump has no empathy or compassion. He attempts to empathize with the vets in the room ("you're strong and you can handle it" but he can't do so without deprecating all those other vets "who can't handle it." PTSD isn't a matter of being strong or "handling it." It's a disorder which is a consequence of combat, no matter how strong one is or how well one handles things. Trump's statements are outrageous and Vice President Biden was understandably outraged.
DeleteEverything he says comes off "that way." What the fuck is wrong with him that everything comes out wrong?
DeleteSarah Palin could not have hitched herself to a better candidate! Losers! Sad!
ReplyDeleteI have to say that what Don the Con said was less concerning to me than what the speaker said prior. I am not trying to minimize how offensive the Orangesicle is, but the other speaker talked about how the government should be giving churches more money to work with veterans.... aka promote their religion. If churches want to proselytize they can do it on their own dime!
ReplyDelete+++++
Deletetrump needs to be removed from public life and locked away some where ...
ReplyDeletefolks are digging up the truth about him and needs to be spread far and wide
here is some family history that confirms he is just continuing the family traditions started decades ago
Trump's grandfather was a pimp and tax evader; his father a member of the KKK
As they say, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree; Donald Trump's racism can easily be traced through his lineage.
http://ahtribune.com/us/2016-election/242-trump-grandfather-pimp-father-kkk.html
oh please let his son's go down too!!! orange jumpsuits all around
ReplyDeleteEric Trump Foundation Spent Hundreds of Thousands at Family-Owned Golf Courses - Eric Trump foundation caught funneling cancer research cash directly to his father's businesses
http://reverbpress.com/finance/eric-trumps-charity-troubles-deepen/
His sons would get PTSD from a walk through Wal-Mart.
DeleteWithout such a detailed invoice, it is impossible for donors to know whether or not the foundation is being honest about their expenditures—or if Donald Trump and his properties are simply using the organization for kickbacks." “It sounds like they were just making a number up,"
DeleteSatan Sarah Palin always wants it both ways.She is whatcha call a stupid hateful ugly, hypocrite.she will spew her ignorance on the subject soon, I am certain.
ReplyDeleteDoncha know? Wink wink.
Trump Takes Heat From Mental Health Advocates, Dems On PTSD Comments
ReplyDeletehttp://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-veterans-mental-health-ptsd
If Secretary Clinton had said what Donald Trump said about PTSD, the right-wing nutjobs would be demanding she leave her campaign for saying something so unfit for a Commander-in-Chief.
ReplyDeleteTrump gets away with it because (whisper it) he doesn't have a vagina.
Yeah, dem guys who went to war ain't seen nothin' scary to get PTSD from. They be pussies says Cheeto Jebus.
ReplyDeletePoor wittle donnie with the bone spur and multiple deferments spent the war scared he's get an STD. Now THAT is scary...
What an EVIL schmuck!
"Some PTSD symptoms are more common in women than men. Women are more likely to be jumpy, to have more trouble feeling emotions, and to avoid things that remind them of the trauma than men. Men are more likely to feel angry and to have trouble controlling their anger then women. Women with PTSD are more likely to feel depressed and anxious, while men with PTSD are more likely to have problems with alcohol or drugs. Both women and men who experience PTSD may develop physical health problems."
ReplyDeleteWomen in the military are at high risk for exposure to traumatic events, especially during times of war. Currently, about 15% of all military personnel in Iraq are women. Although men are more likely to experience combat, a growing number of women are now being exposed to combat. Women in the military are at higher risk for exposure to sexual harassment or sexual assault than men. Future studies are needed to better understand the effects of women's exposure to both combat and sexual assault."
http://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/PTSD-overview/women/women-trauma-and-ptsd.asp
Gryphen, I hope you bookend Trump's disparagement of vets with Biden's righteous and wrathful response. http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/10/4/1577658/-Furious-Joe-Biden-stuns-crowd-unleashes-a-raw-speech-leveling-Donald-Trump-for-his-PTSD-comments
ReplyDeleteTrump said what he said. No defending it and saying this is what he meant. The orange pulp face bastard opens his mind, and shit comes out that attacks everyone. Even Veterans. He just thinks he's above everyone. And his fans don't even see the half of it. That he's just saying what they want to hear so he could get elected and piss on all of them. Gads, what a bunch of dimwitted assholes.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/ignorant-trump-remarks-a-setback-for-veterans-778571331536
ReplyDeleteThe first time I heard Trump's remarks, it was so obvious what he was doing. He pandered to that audience. This is what he does, it's a manipulation technique done by malignant narcissists worldwide. They soothe and butter up and throw lovely compliments to their 'narcissistic suppliers' du jour. They do this to be constantly adored. They have no gratitude or respect for their 'suppliers'. They just take what they can get from them and rat on them the next day, in front of another crowd. It's sociopathic and dangerous.
ReplyDeleteDoes Dakota feel fine with Trump now? Or is he going to be a real man and stand up for his fellow military brothers? Is Dakota now considered weak by Trump? Is Track Palin now considered weak by Trump? What does Sarah think about him trashing her red white and blue warrior son? What does Bristol think about Trump trashing her husband like that? Waiting for their replies...........
ReplyDeleteDakota needs money and he will do anything. He did say something before, when he did not like a Trump policy. I doubt he wants to do too much more when not in agreement with his leader.
DeleteDakota will have a full time job if he ever gets around to doing anything with the human trafficking issues.
The public does need to be educated and made aware of human trafficking, just like they should also be aware of drug trafficking.
Dakota is the spokesperson for a foundation and it it his job to speak and educate the public.
He has not started yet.
All he allows is for someone to ask for money in his commercial social media. "Donate". Give them money.
What will you give your money to? Who knows, the spokesperson isn't speaking up.
So far it is just a lot of malarkey.
prick pence>
ReplyDeletehttp://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/here-are-7-disturbing-things-you-should-know-about-mike-pence-before-tonights-debate/
Grinds my gears to listen to that. Trump, who never put his life on the line, and whose enemies only seem to be fat women, can't even show appreciation to the men and women who fight every day so he can find loopholes in the tax system, where he doesn't have to help pay into Federal Veteran's coffers.
ReplyDeleteHe can 'fight' behind an apparatus sitting on his bed at 3:00 am, but has never had to go into battle or take chances from being blown up from land mines and shrapnel and bullets. And he calls those with PTSD and the suicidal 'weak'. This man is pathetic.
+++
DeleteI am surprised he missed the chance to tell them he knows what it is like to have PTSD because he spent years during the Vietnam War dodging STD’s in the jungle of NYC and he has helped the veterans by millions and millions of dollars in taxes.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget those bone spurs. Must have been agony with every step he took.
Delete"The bullying and the endless quest for domination. The complete lack of basic empathy, of conscience, guilt or remorse."
ReplyDelete"Tony Schwartz recently came out to state that if he were rewriting The Art of the Deal today he would rename it The Sociopath. "
"Kevin Dutton of Oxford University found that Trump has more sociopathic traits than Hitler." "Be a “real” man."
"From the moment Trump announced his run for presidency, I never took it as a joke. The glove fit too well. I couldn’t think of a better caricature of the lowest common denominator of our mass culture."
"our culture endlessly celebrates the power of the individual above all else. We glorify and encourage the ego and the self rather than the interrelatedness of all living things. Sociopaths and narcissists have always existed, but in our culture they are aspired to."Trump perfectly embodies the core values of toxic masculinity as well, the socialized male who is meant to be dominant, violent, competitive, unemotional, misogynist and sexually aggressive. These values are in no way inherent to being a man, but they are completely integral to how we raise and socialize our boys."
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/trump-perfectly-embodies-our-cultures-celebration-of-greed-narcissism-and-sociopathy/
"“He is a celebrity, but an apprentice at politics.”
ReplyDelete"During their meeting in Trump’s office, they discussed Christian faith and religious liberty. Smith was struck by “a different Donald Trump than I expected.” On his way out the door, Smith asked that Trump consider donating to the Palmetto Family Council."
"“It was a quiet donation that came with a simple cover letter,” Smith said. It read: “Great meeting with you and your wife in my office,” dated May 6, 2011. Enclosed was a check for $10,000 from the Donald J. Trump Foundation.
That check is one of at least several donations to suggest Trump used his private foundation, funded by outside donors, to launch and fuel his political ambitions. Such contributions, if they were made solely for Trump’s benefit, could violate federal self-dealing laws for private foundations. " at least $286,000 to influential conservative or policy groups, a RealClearPolitics review of the foundation’s tax filings found. In many cases, this flow of money corresponded to prime speaking slots or endorsements that aided Trump as he sought to recast himself as a plausible Republican candidate for president."“He was politically active starting in 2011,” said one source with ties to Trump, and at that point he “started to make strategic donations.”“Getting the right to speak or access to networking events, that’s definitely starting to push into self-dealing, where you’re using the private foundation assets to benefit Mr. Trump,” said Rosemary Fei, a partner at the Adler & Colvin law firm in San Francisco, where she specializes in charity law. “There’s a mistake somewhere,” said Fei. “It might be a really substantive mistake, or it could just be a reporting error or sloppiness. But improper reporting is still a violation of tax law. That’s something the IRS would look at.”there are half a dozen other such examples of Trump having used his foundation to help curry or cement favor, the IRS 990 forms show."
Sometime in 2012, Trump used his foundation to send $100,000 to Graham’s association — one of the largest donations the foundation would make to any group that year.
But Trump’s most impactful donations might have been those to conservative groups that could offer him a platform from which to test his presidential message and garner media attention for it.
In 2013, Trump took the stage at the Conservative Political Action Conference, or CPAC, outside of Washington, D.C., where he touted his business record, railed against President Obama’s policies, and declared: “We have to make America great again.”
That same year, Trump used his foundation to donate $50,000 to the American Conservative Union Foundation, the nonprofit arm of the group that organizes CPAC and sets its program. He did not ask for a speaking slot in return, but he did not need to.
“Everyone’s too smart to say, ‘Donate and we’ll let you speak,’” said one source familiar with the donation. “It was kind of understood.” Bossie had insisted Trump be included in one of the group’s events “because he was a good friend to Citizens United, It might have helped that, in 2014, Trump’s foundation donated $100,000 to the Citizens United Foundation. “If what he talked about was promoting his candidacy or fundraising for his campaign, it is not only self-dealing but potentially involves the foundation in making a grant to support political activity,” said Fei. “That’s prohibited.”
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/10/04/trump_used_foundation_funds_for_2016_run_filings_suggest.html
Gee, someone should ask Sarah Palin how she and her son, Track, feel about Trump's accusation that those who suffer from PTSD aren't "strong" enough. Had a Democrat made such an egregious statement she would have been having Alaska-style hissy fits.
ReplyDeleteBeaglemom
Remember?""The denial of care to our veterans is a national disgrace, and it's fitting that the person who oversees the Department of Veterans Affairs has accepted responsibility for this growing scandal and resigned," Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky said in a statement.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, a VA whistleblower who told CNN about the problems at the Phoenix facility said Friday he was saddened by Shinseki's resignation under such circumstances."
http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/30/politics/va-hospitals-shinseki/
Probably taking awhile because you know she is all the way up in Alaska. Wait.....
ReplyDeleteThat and she thinks she is giving birth to a son. You know sort of like before when she thought she gave birth to Spongebob Pillow? Sarah is easily confused when it comes to breeding.
Is Trump talking about Track and Dakota? They have PTSD. Why isn't Sarah writing about that?
ReplyDeletegary's johnson>""We wonder why our men in service and women suffer from PTSD in the first place," he continued. "We elect people who can dot the Is and cross the Ts on these names and geographic locations..
ReplyDeleteBut can he name names and geographic locations? NO.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/gary-johnson-foreign-policy-knowledge-puts-military-in-harms-way
PTSD is not limited to people who fought in a war. People suffer all kinds of traumatic experiences, rape, being beaten up, a serious auto accident, falling off a snow mobile, being the victim of abuse, all of these things can bring about PTSD. I'm sure that the people walking down 50 flights of stairs, breathing smoke and hoping they get out before the World Trade Center tower collapses have suffered PTSD. We really need to know more about mental health and it's treatment. If the subject is based on scientific knowledge, then Trump wouldn't know anything about it.
ReplyDeleteI watched a cop kill a person on a quiet Vermont country road rimmed with cornfields and cow pastures. I experienced flashbacks, nightmares, etc. It was about 15 years ago, but I still startle at unexpected bangs, and cannot calm myself as easily as a "normal" person.
DeleteWhat I have is the aftermath of Traumatic Stress. Fortunately, I do NOT have PTSD in which all my symptoms would be much worse. The reason I am not PTSD is because I got HELP fairly soon after the incident.
Once PTSD is established (6+ months after the incident) it is MUCH harder to treat. WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq vets that are 10, 20, 30 years into their PTSD sometimes honestly do not even see there is a problem. It is simple part of the fabric of their minds. And they and their families suffer the consequences as part of the routine of daily life.
The point of this ramble is that PTSD is not a simple matter to be "cured". It can be a life long struggle. And anything said or done that might discourage a PTSD victim from getting help is not a good thing.
Did Trump improve the chances that some vet will seek help? No.
Thank You for your response. It's something Trump can't relate to because he lives in a ivory tower, isolated from life, and knows more than the generals do from watching "the shows"
DeleteSo proud of Joe Biden, it's a side we rarely see, but he's spot on. My uncle died in a VA hospital, and we visited and sat vigil when his time came. To the end, he held no animosity, he suffered PTSD from the Viet Nam war, and suffered for years. My aunt had to take all the doors off closets, put furniture in the center of the room because he feared the enemy hiding, he was a proud man of little means, but always found the time to show empathy to his "brothers" Trump, the draft dodger, bone spurs wink wink wink. knows nothing, he's a disgrace to our nation.
ReplyDeleteWeak is a pejorative term as Trump used it, no doubt intentionally. Research on PTSD has revealed both predisposing and protective factors.
ReplyDeletePredisposing factors: previous exposure to trauma such as violent crime or life-threatening catastrophe;familial neglect or abuse; lack of a social support network; lower socioeconomic and/or educational status; female gender; and perceived minority ethnicity.
Protective factors: familial stability; strong personal support network; higher education; willingness to discuss traumatic experiences with trusted persons; ability to adapt and respond to critical challenges resourcefully; and perceiving one's self as a survivor rather than a victim.
Many of these factors of either kind are outside the control of the individual. Trump's cowardice in ducking service in Vietnam reveals his personal weakness. The man is undeniably a physical coward who thought military school was tough. He deserves nothing but contempt.