Saturday, September 12, 2009

Frank Shaeffer explains who the followers of Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin truly are. You need to read this with the lights on, very scary stuff!

In the early 1970s the evangelicals like my late father and James Dobson decided that the our society had fallen so far "away from God" and so far from "America's Christian history" that it was time to metaphorically decamp to not just another country but to another planet:. In other words virtually unnoticed by the media and mainstream political operatives, a big chunk of American society seceded from the union in all but name.

What they did is turn the white race-based in "Christian school" movement of the 1950s into a countercultural phenomena. As tens of thousands of new Christian schools opened, it was no longer just about "protecting" white kids from minorities and African-Americans. It was about protecting your children from Satan in other words the United States government's long reach through the public school system.

To protect your children from Satan -- in other words mainstream, open patriotic and pluralistic America -- you either kept them at home where mom and dad could teach the children right from wrong or send them to a cloistered private evangelical/fundamentalist school. At home or in school you used curriculum prepared by the likes of James--beat-your-child-and-dare-to-discipline-Dobson, RJ-slavery-was-a-good-thing-Rushdoony, or many and other right-wing anti-American activists. That curriculum presented "secular America" as downright evil. Hating the USA became next to godliness.


In other words these children were trained to distrust ANYBODY who did not adhere to their belief system. Or did not look, or act, like they did. I mean how many home schools are segregated?


Who are Glenn Beck's foot soldiers? In effect what we have is a group of indoctrinated people who have never actually lived in America because they were brought up deliberately cloistered from it by their parents and churches. Because they are legally "Americans" they can move freely around our democracy trying to destroy it working within the United States. Today they are acting like a fifth column, no, they are a fifth column. Some of them have not just seceded metaphorically, there is even a growing movement for states to secede literally.

Today the right wing America haters actually are doing to America what no "illegal" immigrants ever do: work to overthrow our democracy and replace it with a theocracy. The home-schooled, privately educated brainwashed horde are an antidemocratic, fundamentally anti-American political movement. For a start they do not accept the results of the last election.

So the true "anti-Americans" are not the people who are a product of the public school system, but those who were never allowed to participate in that shared education experience. They do not feel connected to you and me, they are only connected to their church, their family, and their twisted belief system.


The fact of the matter is we now know what the experiment in raising children outside of the American mainstream means. It means that there's a whole subculture within American culture that mistrusts facts precisely because they are facts. They glory an alternative view of not just politics but of reality.

They frequent the creationist museum and look at dioramas of dinosaurs cavorting with humans. They believe that gay people choose to be gay just stick it to the rest of us and could change if they invite Jesus into their hearts. They believe that before you run for governor of Alaska, for instance, you should get a preacher specializing in "casting out the spirit of witchcraft" to anoint you so you can win against the demonic forces of secularism -- as was the case with Sarah Palin when she first ran for governor. They believe that the NRA was telling the truth when they claimed that Obama would "take away your guns" and so have loaded up with more guns and ammunition. They think the time has come to rise up and overthrow the government. And yes, most of them also believe that black people are inferior to whites, so to have a black man in the White House is itself "proof" of American's fall from grace.

There's no arguing with such people and no winning against them using mere elections. They are not playing by American rules. Their idea of winning is not fair elections but Armageddon.


Well if that does not send cold chills up your back I don't know what would.

The fact is that war has been declared by these people and we are still trying to reason with them as they prepare to beat us into submission.

Please click the title and read the rest of Frank Shaeffer's post. It will not help you to sleep tonight but it will provide you with an understanding of just how crazy the Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck wing of the Republican party have become.

(By the way, I do not want any of my visitors to assume that I am lumping ALL people who homeschool their children into the same batshit crazy category. I do realize that many people keep their children out of school for legitimate reasons having nothing to do with their fear of secularism. There are people who live in areas with truly bad or dangerous schools, children with health problems, rural communities too far away to access good schools, or parents who are simply very qualified to teach their children at home and feel they can provide a better education. I do not believe that Mr. Shaeffer was referring to those homeschool parents. And of course neither am I. The last thing I want is for this post to turn into a place where people attack homeschool parents or even religious people in general. We are talking about a particular type of person who simply does not want their children to be confronted with facts that may inspire them to ignore their parents prejudice and ignorance.)

43 comments:

  1. Anonymous2:45 PM

    "brought up deliberately cloistered from it by their parents and churches."

    Does this explain Wasilla? Including Levi?

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  2. Anonymous3:02 PM

    I would love for these right-wing whack-jobs to try something. The world is watching. There will be an uprising like they have never seen before!

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  3. Anonymous3:43 PM

    The people described in the Frank Shaeffer article are religious fanatics. The people who attacked us on 9/11 were also religious fanatics. We have very good reason to be frightened of both groups of people, driven by madmen, allowing no form of free thought or dissent.

    My only hope is that this represents the far right wing fringe of the Republican Party. It was pretty clear during the election last November that moderate Republicans and Independents were driven away from their party, thanks in part to Sarah Palin. (Remember, these people were the ones who swept Reagen into office). The Republicans cannot win with only this rabid 25-30% of the vote. They may be vocal. They may shout down opposition at the town hall meetings. Their dominance over at Fox should not overshadow other TV stations or MSM. And, the thing that must really frighten them is the independent blogger. No, not the kid in pajamas in mom's basement. No, the nerd who thinks and reads and communicates with a network of other geeks like him/her.And, they have networks, too.

    Audrey and Morgan must have touched on a real truth when they came too close to that fake pregnancy outfit. The photos of slim Sarah, weeks before "giving birth" to a 6 lb. baby didn't help, nor did her own story of her Wild Ride.

    Our best hope is that Sarah will not disappoint us. Look at her track record for giving speeches lately. Canceled, didn't show up or breathlessly stumbled out some bit of tossed word salad. The new improved Sarah had better hit a home run in Hong Kong. She will have to be Cinderella, Eliza Doolittle at the ball and Princess Diana rolled into one. Or those who have been working so hard to defend her are going to have egg on their faces. In fact, she is going to have to stay married to Todd and look like a happy couple or maybe "Splitsville" wasn't just a rumor.

    Looking at Sarah's track record of quitting, she is going to turn out to be another flash in the pan. Their nasty efforts will have been wasted, because sooner or later the truth does come out. For now, maybe one positive thing that we can do is support the blogs and organizations that are the vigilant watch dogs, keeping track of this frightening group of religious fanatics. They want to destroy our country as surely as the group that hit us on 9/11.

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  4. Anonymous3:46 PM

    Didn't Levi go to public school? I think it would more accurately describe the graduates of Prevo's Anchorage Christian School.

    Blue_in_AK

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  5. Anonymous3:58 PM

    I'm only 2 chapters into Max Blumenthal's book (Republican Gomorrah), but interviews with Schaeffer play a large part in the groundwork so far. It's going to be as frustrating for me to read as Sharlet's "The Family."

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  6. a BRILLIANT, on-the-money analysis.

    ALSO, it's SO damn scary! which is why exposing the lying, wicked witch of the north is important!

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  7. It is impossible to learn to see another person's views coming from such a perspective. Just the leaders know what the real agenda is. A lot of people were sucked into this and they are being used. It is almost a form of slavery.

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  8. Anonymous4:30 PM

    If one watches Fox News long enough, they will become brain washed. We ate dinner with friends who used to be intelligent people. Then, they discovered Fox. It was impossible to talk politics.
    "Bush kept us safe for 8 years."
    "9/11 was Clinton's fault."
    "There were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq."
    "Sadaam was going to attack us any day."
    "Iraq was responsible for 9/11 attacks."
    "You know, Obama wasn't born in the United States."
    The list goes on, but we have aleady heard it when Keith Olbermann points out his worst person of the night for repeating this garbage. Say it often enough, and scare people enough and they will believe anything.
    Combine that with the politically motivated, religiously driven crazies described in Shaeffer's article, and we are looking at one really frightening group of people.

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  9. i just read the whole piece by SHAEFFER at HUFFPO; he is pulling no punches, get a hold of this:

    "To understand the Religious Right today and how dangerous they are don't think politics -- think serial killers who "win" by "getting even" with the society they perceive as having disrespected them. It isn't about facts. It isn't about election results. It isn't about truth. It's about victimhood and revenge on the "elite" in other words on everyone not like you. It is about the weird combination of sadism and masochism Blumenthal describes in his book.

    "Think Republicans who have no plan of their own for health care reform other than stopping Obama. Think "Deathers" and "Birthers" who are all about de-legitimizing our system as "evil" because it includes rights for gays."

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  10. Anonymous4:49 PM

    I also have high anxiety about the political aspirations of the Religious Right.

    But drop the gun and step away from the curb. . .

    Just as an exercise, cast your blog words (and to a certain extent Blumenthal's writings)in the same light that so many Right Wingers attempt to demonize Islam/Muslim. Not a hair's width between them, I would say. Very little wiggle room for those of the Evangelical persusion that might not be at all interested in oppressing the rest of the world. You know, like, um, Muslims.

    I know, I know, you stuck in the little disclaimer and I believe you.

    But remember, Obama had his tighty-whiteys righteously twisted regarding his membership in Trinity. There are still a lot of unanswered questions as to how he was influenced by those 20 years. . .because no really good interesting questions were raised by the MSM, or may I add, answered by the candidate. I found myself more or less filling in the blanks for myself.

    Same for Sarah.

    Look, I still love the guy and I am critical of Sarah Palin. But it does the 'cause' no good to blindly accept a broad brush partisan media treatment of intimate and institutional religious issues in regard to either politician, without question, or demanding more information.

    The Left loves to salivate over the Muthee 'witch doctor' story, but how many have actually read the WHOLE transcripts or the video? How many of you have read the Trinity sermons on their website before it was scrubbed? Or a good, representative collection of the Wasilla Church sermons, including ALL the words of the Jews For Jesus preacher?

    I have.

    The MSM totally missed the intro to the laying on of hands by Muthee onto Palin wherein he invoked the takeover of the 'schools, the government and the media' by the Church. It was not a simple blessing on Sarah to be governor, it was a call for religion to destroy the Constitution of the United States. That makes me wonder exactly how deeply the MSM digs.

    Witchcraft is fairly small beer in comparison.

    They can't stir further beyond the chewy little tidbit of 'witchcraft' when something far more stunning is sitting right under their nose.

    I come away with the same sense of Obama's participation in his church as I do Palin's, frankly. I still don't know just how much either absorbed and took to heart - based on their recorded performance while in office -- or did not. The voting record, and the campaign record, is not clear.

    I don't know whether Palin is a tired Christian who shows up for these things and nods her head and stuffs a bunch of Fundie votes in her purse. . .or even whether at some point Obama got as much of a political jolt out of Trinity as he got a personal one.

    There has been no real investigation that even begins to touch the heart of either of those issues, yet.

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  11. Anonymous4:57 PM

    Thanks, Gryphen, for sharing. I went looking for it earlier, but couldn't find it.

    I lost a good friend of 18 years when she joined a church that spoke in tongues. I lost a good friend when I told her secret rapture was not Biblical.

    Neither attended private schools growing up; their children attended public schools. I do know that some of the home school parents use Bob Jones materials. And there are some parents who opt to home school their children with learning disabilities.

    Church doctrine has a stronghold of folks. Folks tend to believe whatever is spoken from the pulpit. I remember attending one church and listening week after week after week to the same thing. No matter where the preacher started, he would always end up telling the parents that their teenagers were out drinking and smoking and worse. Every time, every week, never failed. Yeah, he was a born again recovering alcoholic. I finally had enough and told my mother I was sick and tired of him standing up there preaching to my Daddy that I was out doing those kind of things. I told her I would never step foot in that church again and didn't. I began reading the Bible myself and soon found errors that I had been previously been taught.

    So, FWIW, those are my experiences.

    The Acts 10:34-35
    -Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
    -But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

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  12. Anonymous5:26 PM

    I, for one, am getting uneasy. Is anyone else getting uncomfortable with the threats of using guns to protest? One of the sponsors of the 9-12 protest in D.C. was an organization that calls for the violent overthrow of the government.

    I think today's Immoral Minority post has been spot-on. These people are not going to stop until blood has been spilled.

    Does anyone remember reading about the Russian professor who was widely ridiculted in the past year or two for having proposed the idea that our nation would soon split into independent regions? The 9-12 people and their ilk seem to want to take their protests to that level.

    Do we dismiss and ridiculte them or take them seriously and try to figure out how to diffuse their fear and anger?

    How do we get the gun-toting angry genie back into a bottle? It doesn't take very many of these loonies to start something that might escalate into a national nightmare.

    I tried to quietly discuss health care reform today with a woman who went from "I'm scared of socialized medicine" to "I don't want any form of the government in my life." This was ironic because the woman works as deputy in a local sheriff's department. When I said, "How can you be against government? You are part of it. You work for the police force," she looked stunned. She'd never made that connection before. She was genuinely stunned.

    How is it that people like her can't connect the most basic of dot patterns? She was 61 years old (I am 60).

    She sad there with her cross hanging from her neck while finally adding, "I just don't want the scum of the earth getting something free that we have to pay for." Jesus would be so proud.

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  13. Anon 4:49

    Obama does not put forward an agenda by which he would force a biblical code onto the civil code - I.E. regarding the issues of abortion and gay rights.

    Fundys do.

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  14. Anonymous5:37 PM

    Frank Schaeffer is half right. The half he knows from the inside.

    Here's the other half:

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=GOP%2C_Inc.

    Put the two together and you have the base of today's Republican party. A marriage made in hell.

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  15. i posted a few threads one on an ex quiverfull (duggar family) and her views in the 80's of bill clinton and hilary (words like anti christ, jezebel, god taking wrath on baby killers.. much like we hear today)and she said her mind was whacked because of right wing radio, other home school mothers and her CHURCH.. she admits she was whackoand the Gothard Method http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/14/114136/732/786/371430some of this stuff is child abuse"some" practice spanking infants until they "stop crying" as crying is a sign of their sinful spirit coming outThat last sob of a toddler after being beaten for throwing a tantrum is considered the breathe of repentance.. they finally let the "sin" goWhy I question the "tear-less" Trig and the zombie kids Palin.. Keep talking about this stuffThings get slapped with Christianity and people turn the other way.. but it's whacking up people's heads

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  16. Anonymous5:47 PM

    They would have moved to another country but they feared that country getting bombed when a Christian became president.

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  17. ..and
    I say again ha! why not

    I think these jesus freaks are actually bringing more people to "God"

    people that haven't opened a bible in years or quoted scripture are digging deep in their brains from sunday school years saying hello! that's not what the bible says!

    people are defending Jesus.. :D
    Its nauseating and offensive at the same time to watch these creepy church people
    I may not toe the line.. but if they want to whack jobs don't do it whilst bringing God anywhere in it .. offensive

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  18. Anonymous5:59 PM

    The mega churches are corporations. They need a special tax.

    Be leery of charities and church excess.

    Separate church and state.

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  19. A 60 year old deputy in a sheriff's department doesn't know she works for the government?

    I mean, is it possible to be that ignorant?

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  20. Anonymous6:17 PM

    anon @ 5:26 shared a quote

    "I just don't want the scum of the earth getting something free that we have to pay for."

    I get so sick of hearing this. The RR has done a great job of painting anyone who needs a helping hand to be a bum who won't work. They conveniently overlook the possibility that many or most of these folks are people who CAN'T work - unemployed or disabled.

    Scum of the earth? You're so right - Jesus would be so proud.

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  21. Anonymous6:19 PM

    Anonymous @4:49 Here's some info regarding the Constitution and proof Palin studied such while on the job.

    http://www.theopalinism.com/blog/category/constitution-party/continental-congress-2009/

    http://www.theopalinism.com/blog/2009/08/21/palins-concon-photo-op/

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  22. Anonymous6:31 PM

    Their argument about government interfering in their lives, and "scum of the earth" getting a free ride on our dollar-- the government built the highways that we all ride on, paying customers or free-loaders. We need regulation, because if there are no lights turning red or green, that busy intersection is going to be a mess. We can't have people landing planes where ever they want; we need some coordination. And as for the sheriff's department that she claims to work for-- so we don't enforce the laws, hold people accountable or lock them up if they fail to comply--- oh wait a minute, we did that for the last eight years, sorry.

    It is obvious what they are against. Do they really think that they can run a country like they run a mega-church? How does that collection plate work again? Who decides how the money is going to be spent? Who are those guys in the aisles keeping "order?" Yeah, looks like a police state to me. Jesus would be proud.

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  23. Anonymous7:12 PM

    I just finished reading Frank Schaeffer's book, "Crazy for God." It's a very well written book about his bizarre childhood and a long recovery as an adult. He was blessed with the most incredibly narcissistic parents. It took him a long time to grow up and out of the movement but he now writes with so much wisdom. Pages 102-103 gave me the shivers. He uncovers a lot of the dirty history of the evangelical movement but the book is really about so much more. Read it - you'll love it.

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  24. I'm so glad Schaeffer continues to speak out. The article shines an important light on some freaky shit. I felt uncomfortable, though, that he attributes all this to the home-school and church-school movements. And I wonder if we need to be more cautious about lumping all at the rally with the christian war movement.

    Gryphen, I really appreciate your disclaimer.

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  25. "Scum of the Earth" - wonder if that translates to "we have a black president"?

    HuffPo announces that ABC News was "misquoted" and stated that instead of 1.5 MILLION protesters the DC police are "guesstimating" around 65,000 (Not large for a DC Protest).

    And so many stupid stupid seniors (spoken AS an almost senior) - all on Medicare, Medicaid and receiving Social Security.

    All on the public dole, many after having worked in jobs in State Government, City Government, The Post Office, Fire Department, Police Department, teaching at a PUBLIC (GASP) school, having attended a school (altho that's appearing doubtful) or (god forbid) a COLLEGE where they were indoctrinated but nevertheless they are STILL holding on tight to their stupidity AND their Social Security.

    IGNORANT HICKS - anyone over the age of 65 has NO business at these rallies. But they are too incredibly ignorant to recognize they ARE the problem.

    Who in hell do the Repukes want to kill???? They want to kill the elderly, the demented, the seniors with chronic long term EXPENSIVE medical care, the kids with CP, people with MS, seniors who have cardiac issues, high blood pressure, glaucoma. If you are over 65 and you have EVER been sick, you are a drain on OUR tax dollars.

    Also, the sick - we cannot take care of the sick. They must go.

    Those people are the ones the Repukes want gone. Just think about it - why would the Republicans want chronically ill fragile elderly demented people to live???? Why would they want the chronically ill who are on Medicaid to live?

    This is not rocket science people.

    And the elderly just go on buying into this manure pile they are being fed.

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  26. Anonymous8:36 PM

    Basheert - I always love your posts. You either make me laugh like crazy or hit the nail on the head. This time I just need to say - don't hold back, dear, tell us how you really feel. lol

    to all - The Republican party is sick, sick, sick. Greedy, corrupt, lying, conniving bastards. The base is comprised of dominionists, and movement conservatists. They even campaign to get the moderates out of the party.

    If you are here to just get the scoop on Palin, I beg you to expand your horizons and google up the above mentioned terms. She is a dangerous player in a very dangerous game and the more you know about these people, the better we all are equiped to try to reverse the trend and repair the damage. Read the books that get recommended and make good use of Google.

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  27. Anonymous9:23 PM

    I've been trying to put some of the pieces from today's stories together. Our dear friend Audrey has become a victim of someone who cannot be named here-- because the author of this blog was also a victim. But that guy, the mean bully, wears his religion, Seventh-Day-Adventist, proudly on his sleeve. He is a contradiction: proud father, racist, homophobe, spiritual, filled with mean-spirited hatred. (And the last couple of posts at Palingates are having at him right now).

    So then I read the Shaeffer piece, and the pieces seemed to come together. These religious zealots are not religious in the sense of Moses and Jesus. They are fanatics who twist religion to their own political and social agenda. That's not being a good, spiritual person. It's no better than the other religious fanatics who have killed in the name of a loving god; it is hypocrisy. One can not claim to be a person of faith while at the same time act as no good person of faith would act. If anyone deserves to be shouted at "You Lie!" it would be these hypocrites.

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  28. Anonymous9:50 PM

    Sorry, this is just a little over the top. Sure, there's some families who want to keep their kids away from "the world", but I hardly think there's enough of them in any significant numbers to call them a movement.
    I've been a fundamentalist and boy was I ever into it. But I'm not now. And just about anyone I've ever know who was really really fanatic about their religion (especially as teenagers), ended up leaving and getting a real life.
    I'm not saying they're not out there. I just don't think they're that powerful or important or numerous.
    That whole freaked-out omg tone is kinda bullshit. Sorry.

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  29. You all must watch the documentary film Jesus Camp. It very clearly shows this indoctrination Schaeffer is referring to. I am going to order some of these books!
    Yes these people frankly scare the hell out of me. It's turning into a serious, and potentially violent culture war. I read there were 65,000 people there despite the wingnuts claim of 1.5 million. So not terribly huge but still way too big! Does anyone know or have a guess about what percentage of Americans are involved with this group and others like it?

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  30. Another really good way to see into the mind of the modern conservative/right is a book by David Neiwert called The Eliminationists: How Hate Talk Radicalized The American Right. It's a great read it details the clear trajectory that we are now all seeing and experiencing as the right moves along a course down the political path to fascism, as it has moved from reason and sanity towards accepting fringe thinking and eliminationist rhetoric and pursuits. It's a very sober read, but well worth anyone's time who cares about what is really going on in this country.

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  31. Well done Gruphen. As I was telling an old friend from the past tonight what I learned from the Prop 64 rallies from this summer---The LGBT pose no threat to me at all. The Fundamentalist (Christian and Islamic) terrorists DO!

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  32. Anonymous2:14 AM

    A good site for tracking the "religious" right: http://www.talk2action.org/

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  33. Gryphen, thanks for drawing a distinction between religious fundamentalist homeschoolers and the secular homeschoolers. We've homeschooled for years and when we started the only homeschoolers were the religious ones. Going to a homeschool meeting was like going to a revival meeting. Nauseating. And scary. Fortunately the homeschool community has evolved and while there will always be the crazy right wing of the movement, today there are also lots of freethinking, secular and even pagan and atheist homeschoolers to balance them out somewhat.

    For us, homeschooling is an option that fits our lifestyle. Unlike religious homeschoolers who instill fear of the government and public schools in their children, we've never told the kids that public schools are "bad." In fact, my oldest daughter who was homeschooled is now a first grade teacher in the public school system and loves her job and her students.

    It's been my experienced that children of religious homeschoolers are often poorly socialized and socially awkward. Several years ago a religious homeschooler came with her kids to my home. Her fourteen year old son seemed very uncomfortable and paced the living room before walking outside. A few moments later I looked out in surprise to see him urinating off the side of my porch.

    Of course I asked his mother why he hadn't just asked to use my bathroom. She replied that he was probably "just afraid."

    It's sad when kids are raised to be so socially isolated and uncertain of anyone different that they can't even communicate basic requests. But that's what happens to kids who are locked away all day with parents who infect them with a narrow view of life and the world beyond.

    I'm all for the right to homeschool but I worry about a lot of these isolated kids who are essentially being hidden away and brainwashed by their parents. In addition to lacking social skills, many really lag academically and refuse to take part in end of year testing. There really needs to be more oversight.

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  34. Anonymous5:44 AM

    I have been reading a book "American Fascists-The Christian Right and the War on America" by Chris Hedges and it is a real eye opener! Would suggest you read it. While it was written in 2006 before Palin appeared on the scene, it sure has been an interesting read.

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  35. phoebes-in-santa fe5:49 AM

    vanityfair.com has a very funny feature right now of "Sarah Palin" answering questions. I'll link below. You'll enjoy.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/online/politics/2009/09/ask-miss-information.html

    By the way, I just finished Blumenthal's book on the right and I feel "dirty" after reading it. The people and groups he writes about are just vile....

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  36. Anonymous5:56 AM

    Kevin Phillips is another author every American should read.

    http://podbram.blogspot.com/2008/12/american-theocracy.html

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  37. Whit I don't agree with Beck on the way he is doing his poltics, I really take offence that his faith is lumped intot the Evangalical movement. Far from it. In fact, the Evangalicals HATE mormoans with a passion. They intrupt conferences, they stand outside our temples holding offensive signs, etc. To lump Becks (and Harry Reid's) faith into the Palin numbnuts sect is wrong. Glen beck is a nutter, but he is NOT evanglaical. He's just their useful idiot for a spell.

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  38. And, what you all might not know is there is a very big fight going on in the GOP for the soul of the party. I am GOP. For how much longer,not sure. I have been told to leave the party by some not so nice bloggers, who push palin at every turn. There are two sides. There is my side, where folks like Colin Powell firmly sits, then there is the Palin side, where the toothless, overweight horny 'christian' men sit. I'll talk Powells side, please. We are fighting to get religion OUT of politics. It's a fight that makes inroads, then outroads. But there are 'footsoliders' in there, working hard. I know. I'm one of them. Once Becks usefullness is used up, he'll be tossed aside as a 'cult member'. IMO, God teaches us correct principals, and allows us to govern ourselves. When there are those saying that God has lead them to this political position or that one, grab your scriptures and RUN for the hills.

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  39. Gryphen, I agree with your last statement about home schooling. But because I live in the Bible Belt, I see the type of home schooling that Shaeffer is talking about.
    These people are complete whack jobs. He hits the nail right on the head. And we should be worried for these children. They are being indoctrinated. They'll also grow up and not have the skills to interact with other people. They won't know how to socialize. These parents are hurting their own kids much, much more than they think that their helping. What will they do when their kid has to go to work for a living and they don't know how to interact with their boss? They'll probably be sent to Christian Colleges and Universities.
    All I can say is that they better have enough brains and money to start their own businesses. Because they will not have skills, no matter how much education, to work well with others.

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  40. Oh thanks GenieO - we are sort of within the age group of these moronic seniors. My stepdad identifies himself by a WWII baseball cap. I haven't spoken with him since May. His politics make me ill.

    He is on Social Security, he receives a pension, he is a Veteran and he utilizes Medicare heavily. He has had 1 heart attack and a CABG (all on taxpayer dollars).

    He is a rabid racist although he cloaks it in other language. I choose to not share time with him since my mom is gone.

    Moms: The GOP is gone. It lost its soul about 8 years ago. This is not about people or about health care. This is about our country belonging to corporations who John Roberts will deterine are "people" and our election system is about to be blown all to hell by corporate donations.

    The story on health Insurance is a bit muddier. This is about health insurance access, NOT health care.

    Logically the Repukes would want their most vulnerable members to get off the dole. They'd love to kick these seniors out and just let them die. It would reduce costs. If anyone wants to "unplug granny", it is the Repukes not the Dems, or the Indies.

    We left the Repuke party years ago when they first lost their soul AND their humanity. It became obvious that people were not factored into their plan. It's all about money and anyone who believes that all these lobbying parties "care" about them is truly delusional.

    Christian Southern White Guys? Oh yeah, no blacks, browns or non-whites allowed, whatever your racial makeup or your ethnicity.

    On the issue of Beck - he's just a stupid fool. He is obviously a dry drunk - and probably as mentally ill as Sarah Palin. For some reason, it appears as if the GOP Leadership include all the people that were let out of mental institutions under Ronald Reagan.

    So now what happens? I am with a few of you. I believe the shooting is about to begin. People are going to get shot for disagreeing.

    Then what?

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  41. moms, i just wanted to say a thank you for posting. i know you take a risk of people criticizing your religion. you make a good point about Beck not being evangelical. I want to ask you something. Within the Morman religion, are there a lot extremist conservatives like Beck, and then ones that are more moderate politically? I have had several Morman co-workers in the past,and they were all very conservative I would say.....I could never discuss politics with them. I just haven't met that many moderates. I know Harry Reid is a moderate Democrat but he converted to Mormanism. And then Jon Huntsman he has written that he is now in favor of civil unions for gay people because his children convinced him of this. Maybe the children, if they are not too sheltered will be more moderate. I just have rarely come cross Mormans like you who are moderate Republican or liberal either...

    I have several friends who were Republican moderates, like you, and big supporters of Powell. They didn't want to leave the GOP but they did. They couldn't stand it anymore because their views simply were NOT allowed and they were told they were bad Republicans. Sort of how Megan McCain is treated. I think it is great you read here and speak up and learn about "the other side." There are crazies on both sides but it seems like more liberals are concerned with "community" and taking care of our fellow man/women. I am really glad to hear there are still some Republicans who do not want their party taken over. You have a HUGE fight on your side - and I think the party should split into two sides - the conservatives, and the Republicans or something like that. Why not, America could use more parties like other countries......

    No one answered my question, and maybe there isn't an answer. I am trying to figure out what percentage of the population are these real far out right wing extremists? The morons carrying Hitler signs and comparing this administration to Nazis. The ones that astound me are the ones with Medicare who are screaming about a government takeover of medicine. What is wrong with these people? Is it stupidity or brainwashing? It is so hard with the media to tell how big of a group they really are... The media pays them too much attention because they are so loud and dramatic......

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  42. basheert, i think the shooting is about to begin too. I think we are in the midst of a serious culture war that could turn into violence-i keep thinking of that homeland security report - it said that right wing extremists are the biggest threat to our country. I BELIVE THAT and it scares the hell out of me. I just don't know how big they are and if our left has enough chutzpah to seriously fight back. I hope so.

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  43. Moms - "then there is the Palin side, where the toothless, overweight horny 'christian' men sit."

    Scathingly lol!

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