It's recently been reported that an atheists' group has planned an advertising campaign for this Christmas, featuring a photograph of smiling people wearing Santa Claus hats. The caption: "No God? . . . No problem! Be good for goodness sake." Whatever you might think of this message, the ad does contain a grain of historical truth: the modern image of Santa Claus was invented in the 19th century by New Yorkers, as a secular myth meant to unite the city's diverse and growing population.No common observance of Christmas existed in New York at that time, other than a holiday from work. Many Protestant churches frowned on elaborate Christmas celebrations, which they associated with Anglo-Catholicism and the aristocracy. The city's free laborers, who often suffered from unemployment in the dark days of winter when shipping and industry slowed down, were only too willing to gather in the streets at Christmas, turning the holiday into an excuse for drunken caroling. As for the laborers in the city's large enslaved population, they used this rare time off for celebrations that often included customs with roots in Africa.
There's little wonder that some leading citizens would have welcomed a symbol that encouraged peaceful, domestic celebrations, of the sort that most New Yorkers might share. They found that symbol in Santa Claus, starting around 1810.
The thing I used to love about Christmas is that people seemed to go out of their way to be more pleasant to each other, more gracious, and less selfish. And immediately after that observation I would always think "Why can't we ALWAYS treat each other with this much respect?"
Now I used to think that way back before the battle lines were drawn and the "War on Christmas" began back in the 1990's. (Or perhaps even earlier.) Now days I have to listen to new reports of vandals stealing the baby Jesus from Nativity scenes, and Christians yelling "The Reason for the Season!", and the endless discussion over who is trampling on whose religious freedoms.
And suddenly the season of love and acceptance, turned into the season of selfishness and recriminations. The Christians demand that Jesus feature prominently in Christmas displays in store windows, and television commercials, and holiday decorations on public property. And non-Christians demand that they be able to celebrate an American holiday without having a religious belief that they do not share thrown in their face every time they turn on the radio, watch television, or drive to the mall.
The truth is that NOTHING about Christmas has its origin in Christianity. From the pagan origins of the Christmas tree, the borrowed Saturnalia custom of gift giving, to even the assimilation of the Winter Solstice celebration, Christmas is a potpourri of borrowed customs and traditions. And is THAT really so bad?
I have to applaud the 19th century New Yorkers for attempting to create a holiday that brought all kinds of citizens together. What a wonderful idea!
And it worked great too! Right up until people started getting greedy and saw an opportunity to stir up some self serving controversy. Not much Christmas spirit in that is there?
Perhaps this year, instead of slapping each other's hands away from the holiday and trying to take it for our own, we should adopt the philosophy that St. Nicholas espoused so eloquently and offer to share this season of giving with our neighbors, despite our religious, ethnic, or political differences.
So the next time you turn on Fox News and see Bill O'Reilly yelling about the "attacks on Christmas" in a desperate attempt to gin up controversy and boost his ratings, just turn it off and hold your children, and thank Santa Claus for representing a season that ALL Americans can enjoy regardless of which religion they embrace, or to which God they direct their prayers.
Letter from Jesus about Christmas (part 1)
ReplyDeleteIt has come to my attention that many of you are upset that folks are taking My name out of the season.
How I personally feel about this celebration can probably be most easily understood by those of you who have been blessed with children of your own. I don't care what you call the day. If you want to celebrate My birth, just GET ALONG AND LOVE ONE ANOTHER.
Now, having said that let Me go on. If it bothers you that the town in which you live doesn't allow a scene depicting My birth, then just get rid of a couple of Santas and snowmen and put in a small Nativity scene on your own front lawn. If all My followers did that there wouldn't be any need for such a scene on the town square because there would be many of them all around town.
Stop worrying about the fact that people are calling the tree a holiday tree, instead of a Christmas tree. It was I who made all trees. You can remember Me anytime you see any tree. Decorate a grape vine if you wish: I actually spoke of that one in a teaching, explaining who I am in relation to you and what each of our tasks were. If you have forgotten that one, look up John 15: 1 - 8.*
If you want to give Me a present in remembrance of My birth here is my wish list. Choose something from it:
1. Instead of writing protest letters objecting to the way My birthday is being celebrated, write letters of love and hope to soldiers away from home. They are terribly afraid and lonely this time of year. I know, they tell Me all the time.
2. Visit someone in a nursing home. You don't have to know them personally. They just need to know that someone cares about them.
3. Instead of writing the President complaining about the wording on the cards his staff sent out this year, why don't you write and tell him that you'll be praying for him and his family this year. Then follow up.... It will be nice hearing from you again.
4. Instead of giving your children a lot of gifts you can't afford and they don't need, spend time with them. Tell them the story of My birth, and why I came to live with you down here. Hold them in your arms and remind them that I love them.
ReplyDelete5 Pick someone that has hurt you in the past and forgive him or her.
6. Did you know that someone in your town will attempt to take their own life this season because they feel so alone and hopeless? Since you don't know who that person is, try giving everyone you meet a warm smile; it could make the difference.
7. Instead of nit picking about what the retailer in your town calls the holiday, be patient with the people who work there. Give them a warm smile and a kind word. Even if they aren't allowed to wish you a "Merry Christmas" that doesn't keep you from wishing them one. Then stop shopping there on Sunday. If the store didn't make so much money on that day they'd close and let their employees spend the day at home with their families
8. If you really want to make a difference, support a missionary-- especially one who takes My love and Good News to those who have never heard My name.
9. Here's a good one. There are individuals and whole families in your town who not only will have no "Christmas" tree, but neither will they have any presents to give or receive. If you don't know them, buy some food and a few gifts and give them to the Salvation Army or some other charity which believes in Me and they will make the delivery for you.
10. Finally, if you want to make a statement about your belief in and loyalty to Me, then behave like a Christian. Don't do things in secret that you wouldn't do in My presence. Let people know by your actions that you are one of mine.
Don't forget; I am God and can take care of Myself. Just love Me and do what I have told you to do. I'll take care of all the rest. Check out the list above and get to work; time is short. I'll help you, but the ball is now in your court. And do have a most blessed Christmas with all those whom you love and remember:
I LOVE YOU,
JESUS
Don't know what that above post is all about - maybe Sarah Palin wrote it, as she is inclined to write in the voice of the Creator.
ReplyDeleteAnyhoo, hear, hear, Gryphen!
You're probably barking up the wrong tree with this one Gryphen. Even your best followers and the most politically in tune people in your country are mostly still stuck in the 'baby jesus' superstitious nonsense.
ReplyDeleteCome to Canada and you'll score with more than half the people on that one. OH, and we're all commies too who love universal healthcare.
4. Instead of giving your children a lot of gifts you can't afford and they don't need, spend time with them. Tell them the story of My birth, and why I came to live with you down here. Hold them in your arms and remind them that I love them.
ReplyDelete5 Pick someone that has hurt you in the past and forgive him or her.
6. Did you know that someone in your town will attempt to take their own life this season because they feel so alone and hopeless? Since you don't know who that person is, try giving everyone you meet a warm smile; it could make the difference.
7. Instead of nit picking about what the retailer in your town calls the holiday, be patient with the people who work there. Give them a warm smile and a kind word. Even if they aren't allowed to wish you a "Merry Christmas" that doesn't keep you from wishing them one. Then stop shopping there on Sunday. If the store didn't make so much money on that day they'd close and let their employees spend the day at home with their families
8. If you really want to make a difference, support a missionary-- especially one who takes My love and Good News to those who have never heard My name.
9. Here's a good one. There are individuals and whole families in your town who not only will have no "Christmas" tree, but neither will they have any presents to give or receive. If you don't know them, buy some food and a few gifts and give them to the Salvation Army or some other charity which believes in Me and they will make the delivery for you.
10. Finally, if you want to make a statement about your belief in and loyalty to Me, then behave like a Christian. Don't do things in secret that you wouldn't do in My presence. Let people know by your actions that you are one of mine.
Don't forget; I am God and can take care of Myself. Just love Me and do what I have told you to do. I'll take care of all the rest. Check out the list above and get to work; time is short. I'll help you, but the ball is now in your court. And do have a most blessed Christmas with all those whom you love and remember:
I LOVE YOU,
JESUS
p.s. send money or you can go to hell cause the amount I love you depends on how big the cheque is.
I am so sick of this site, and others like it. It is the height of irony that you play into the very hands of the people who have distorted a religion to the point that they believe some people are trying to take their faith away from them. Talk about fueling a fire! Just because Christmas has been hijacked by commercialism does not allow people to disrespect and dismiss a religious holiday which is celebrated by millions of people around the world, in true faithful spirit. Nor would it be right to hold other faiths' traditions up to the light of non-believer's opinions about said customs. Butt out, in other words. True Christmas has EVERYTHING to do with Christianity, if you are observing it with an authentic faith. I am in no way sympathetic with these false cries of persecution - war on Christmas and the like - but one cannot logically extrapolate, in protest, that Christmas is not a genuine religious celebration. I don't care that its particular position in the calendar may have had more to do with pagan customs, or the deep of winter, or whatever. WE CHRISTIANS BELIEVE IN THE STORY OF JESUS'S BIRTH, REGARDLESS OF WHEN EXACTLY IT HAPPENED, AND WE BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF THIS STORY, EXACTLY AS IT IS TOLD. Deal with it.
ReplyDeleteSee, baby jesus's love comes with a price tag.
ReplyDeleteanon at 10:15, You're still only a small minority of the people in this world and you're shrinking in most countries. See, we're dealing with you.
ReplyDeleteBorrowed pagan traditions? Stolen is more like it. Most Christians are ridiculously ignorant that the Christ story is just another retelling of the myth of the sacrificial king - a myth that long preceded Christianity.
ReplyDeleteThe only way to lure pagans and other "heathens" (non Christians who lived in outlying areas on the heaths) was to incorporate pagan symbolism into the new Christian myth. Mary was the Christian Goddess before they reduced her to eternally virginal Jesus Incubator.
If anyone is interested in a really good book that explores the god myth across the pagan culture and how it was co-opted by Christianity I highly recommend "The Witches God" by Stewart Farrarr
I find it exceedingly amusing that Bill O’Reilly, a noted sexual predator is complaining about secular humanists and atheists taking the “meaning” out of Christmas.
ReplyDeletePrecisely what Christmas “meaning” was O’Reilly expressing while he was engaging in degrading sexual harassment of female employees at FauxNews? What Christmas “meaning” is expressed when O’Reilly brags about how he pleasures himself with a vibrator, all while engaging in more lewd, sexually explicit harassing phone calls to female employees? Does he think that the Magi brought smutty talk, groping, and a dildo?
O’Reilly can just shut his damn piehole - and every other hole while he’s at it, as well. He is a loathsome reprobate and an odious turd that has absolutely no standing to be lecturing anyone upon any subject regarding Christian morality. If there is a God, surely there is a special place in hell for a sanctimonious, holier than thou sexual predator like Bill O’Reilly. It is a hell with all the batteries O’Reilly could desire, but not a dildo in sight.
Neither is anyone else on FauxNews qualified to pass judgement on any issue of morality at Christmas or any other time. It was Murdoch’s FauxNews that paid the victims of O’Reilly’s sexual harassment to be silent. Murdoch will spend millions of dollars to buy the silence of victims of crime, while protecting and enabling a criminal to remain on the air, pompously deriding the nation for taking Christ out of Christmas. Who at FauxNews issued any protests at having an un-indicted felon as an on air personality?
Hey O’Reilly, you pissy little coward, at exactly at what point during your attacks were you expressing the true “meaning” of Christmas? Was it while you were engaging in the battery powered auto-erotica? Maybe you were singing carols while you were wanking yourself? Maybe you were shouting “ho, ho, ho” at your victims?
Note to O’Reilly: Sit down, STFU, and quit pretending that you have any acquaintance with Jesus Christ. In which Gospel was it that Jesus said, “Blessed are the sexual predators?” Tell me Bill, what IS the meaning of Christmas and how the hell do YOU express it? Have you begged your victims for forgiveness?
The Daily Show had Samantha Bee doing a piece last night and she interviewed Noelle Nikpour who was indignant about the White House sending out Christmas ornaments to be decorated by kids and sent back. Noelle was so stupid, complaining about the cost and the teacher's time being wasted. And saying that it was the Obamas' way of indoctrinating kids. My favorite part was when she said that Jewish people had their own "12 days" to celebrate. The show put up a graphic showing a menorah with 4 extra candles nailed to it. It's too bad people can't be a little more openminded at this time of year that is so special to so many people.
ReplyDeleteChris
This has become a sick, sick site. I can tell you this much, when Christianity is practiced as it should be, following Christ's teachings to the letter, it is incapable of such intolerance and hate-mongering, so much of it borne of ignorance. As has been said repeatedly, Sarah Palin's Asembly of God church, Joel's Army, etc, DO NOT represent Christianity as it is practiced by most people in the world. The persistent overt and implied equivalence is simply misleading, and basically inaccurate. I find people who obsess about religion and continually play games to make themselves feel smarter than those who have a faith (I don't give a crap about historical tracing of ancient myths), are usually those who have had negative experiences, either from within the church or without. Their questioning is understandable, but it does not give ultimate authority to the views which result from such experiences. I also find that people who struggle with these issues tend to be quite sad inside, and rather lost. And they are determined to justify their own decisions regarding religion. Hey, I don't tell other people what they should believe. My Christian church doesn't engage in that sort of thing. People absolutely have the right to believe or not believe what they wish. It is my belief that we are all God's children - even those who don't believe in God. But what people don't have the right to do, is to attack, insult, disrespect, mock, or deride those who do. I am in full support of the exposure of religious hypocrisy by those who would seek to become powerful through manipulation of those who believe. But that doesn't give anyone the right to do what happens here, so often, because of the hangups of the blog author and his little followers. Non-belief can result in cult-like behavior just as much as belief can. I have had conversations with people who call themselves Brights, for example, and they are truly messed up. Now I need to go back and get in touch with Jesus's teachings....it is difficult when facing this kind of thing, I can tell you.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of tolerance and peace. A wonderful movie is coming out the end of January.
ReplyDeleteHere is the trailer. "Misconceptions" was written and produced by Ron Satlof. Google him for more.
No one's toes get stepped on, but there is a powerful message.
http://ronsatlof.blogspot.com/2009/12/misconceptions-temporary-trailer.html
It's delightful and meaningful.
Thank you for this post Gryphen. I especially liked Christopher's comments. At one time I was a Christian, and I especially liked the Christmas story. It and the story of the eight days of oil, and many others that I'm not familiar with are part of how we transmit our cultural values. Religion has to do with what we believe. I would hope we could all believe that other humans deserve our respect and concern, no matter what they believe.
ReplyDeleteI am not Christian. I am constantly subjected to questions about my readiness for Christmas. Have I don't my shopping, put up my tree, got my lights up? It's tiresome. I recognize that about 80% of the population is some variant of Christian and all Christians cannot possibly be a**h****. There have to be some nice ones, just by the law of averages. But it's not easy to see them, and around Christmas, which I recognize is a Christian holy day that has been heaped with rituals coopted from us Pagans, it's damn near impossible to see them anywhere.
ReplyDeleteAround this time of year, I think of us as putting up with the annual Christian greed festival. I think of Christianity, in general, as a religion that cannot stand alone. Their weekly day becomes the day that places close. Their beliefs must be codified in law, because otherwise they're being discriminated against. (The fact that they could just follow their beliefs tends to escape them.)
Before somebody starts yelling Not me! Not me! I'd like to point out that I know it's not everybody, but for the love of the gods just ONCE try to think what it's like to be surrounded by people not of your own religion who automatically assume that you're just like them.
Try having 300 people, the last week of July, ask if you're all ready for Lughnasagh? Do you have a family bread recipe, and do you brew your own beer for the celebration? Over and over and over and over and over...
You might, possibly, get an idea what it's like to be nonChristian in our society.
But please don't remind me it's your holiday. I KNOW that, not being blind deaf stupid or dead. I'm surrounded by nonstop reminders. I can't escape them, even in my own home, because guess what? Television is moving over into All Christmas All the Time. I've invented a drinking game. If the show has Christmas, Merry, Holiday or Happy in the title, take a drink. If it has a dog as a character, take two. If there's a child involved, take three.
You'll need them.
[/rant]
I think I love you. Thank you for writing this. Namaste. And Merry Christmas Gryphen.
ReplyDeleteAnon at 11:03 - you have to understand that the "Christians" like Sarah Palin are making it very easy to abhor Christianity. If more Christians modeled themselves after Jesus Christ and quit using Christianity as an excuse for racism, warmongering, environmental irresponsibility and threats against the President, you wouldn't see posts like this.
ReplyDeleteI didn't realize any of this interesting history of the Christmas holiday, thanks Gryphen! My entire family parents and children, are all atheists, and we adore Christmas. We love the tree, and the music, and the gifts, and the imperative to set aside time to spend together as a whole group. I always said we were pagan enthusiasts and I guess I was right!
ReplyDeleteAnd to you anon's who tell us to butt out of "your" holiday - hey, butt out of ours!!
I think this was a really interesting point of view about this holiday.
ReplyDeleteAs a kid, Santa and Christmas were huge deals to me. I spent months working on the things I was going to ask Santa to bring me (which didn't always involve the latest toys). I loved the Christmas programs at my mother's church (even if I knew even then that the story didn't make much sense). I loved baking holiday goods with my family and decorating the tree and house with my dad.
As an adult, I recognize that there are so many ways to interpret this holiday season. Not all of those ways have to be religious and it behooves anyone who chooses to celebrate this season to respect that fact.
Whether your holiday is a celebration of the birth of Christ, a remembrance of eight days of oil, a celebration of the renewal the winter solstice brings or simply a wonderful story told to your children just to see the magic of it light their eyes... Remember that the bottom line for every interpretation is love, togetherness and kindness.
The season should be interpreted by all regardless of denomination as a reminder to be good to each other. Not just during the holidays but always.
Thanks Gryphen.
Speaking of American unity:
ReplyDeletePolito has an article about a book about the Lewinsky affair. 20 Republican senators are looking to hold hearings on whether Bill Clinton lied under oath about his affair...
Go ahead and laugh. Can't wait to see Ensign and Vitter grilling Bill Clinton for infidelity. I'm sure that totally won't turn off voters or anything...
Anon at 11:03, your rant is the same one we all hear from the moderate muslims when they are confronted with their radical fringe.
ReplyDeleteThe fringe IS your religion until YOU take it back from them.
Until such time as you and other moderate Christians do so, you have no right to rant about how others characterize what they have been subjected to (O'Reilly, Palin, et al).
My advice to you, which you will not heed, is to make your moderate views known, work hard to push for a more moderate and loving Christianity (all we see now is the hate mongers), and contribute to causes that espouse your moderate views. Until you do those things, STFU.
I used to be Catholic and as a child loved Christmas time. Now, I do understand the poster who stated how hard it is to not be a Christian this time of year. I still go through the motions of decorating the house and baking traditional foods, but it is soooo meaningless to me. I unpack a nativity set that my grandmther handmade, and feel like I could just as well be unpacking a Barbie playset or action figurines. I always knew since my teens that Xmas really is an orchestrated holiday to boost the economy at the end of the year ******Notice please how the H1N1 frenzy has abated for the month******We MUST be able to go out in public in droves and spend spend spend. Mark my words, as soon as the spending frenzy is over, the flu "threat' will return as well as the fing scaremongering. Time then to make money for the pharmaceutical companies.
ReplyDeleteI wish for this season that people's eyes will be opened to mankinds true situation. And be kind and tolerant to each other. Peace.
great post, gryphen! I did not know the origins of santa claus. twas not what I would have assumed.
ReplyDeleteget over it, anon.
ReplyDeletevirgins don't give birth without the aid of science. dead people don't get nailed to a cross and then come back to life. get pissy all you want, but to demand respect for believing in things that CLEARLY CANNOT HAPPEN IN REALITY is ridiculous.
This is a truly wonderful post, Gryphen. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous @ 11:03
ReplyDeleteIt may be that you are deriding the wrong person (i.e. Gryphen) and lecturing the wrong folks. Perhaps your scolding and loud and clear message needs to be directed toward those who aren't willing to "share their" holiday with the masses.
The truth is that just because the early Catholic Church incorporated pagan customs into their dogma and renamed these traditions "Christmas" does not make them the sole property of any church (Catholic or Protestant), sect or group. Further, just because these same traditions have been incorporated in these religious bodies does not preclude the reality that they have, through the last century or so, been woven into our secular society.
When you write, "My Christian church doesn't engage in that sort of thing," I am left to wonder. Did you actually mean, "My Christian church?" Isn't the church you are a part of, "Christ's church?" Unfortunately, this Freudian slip is indicative of the same selfish attitude expressed by those with whom you profess to not be aligned. It just might be that Jesus would take exception to the "My church" part of a modern-day moderate Christian's dissertation.
I do not attack insult, disrespect, mock or deride those who through an earnest search have found true faith and belief in G-d. However, I do question those whose faith is only a result of believing what they are taught and told to believe out of fear of damnation, pure laziness or ignorance. It seems that these are the ones who get mired in arrogance and express their false sense of ownership and sole proprietorship of ancient, ancient ideas--ideas that were never theirs to begin with.
Chris @ 10:57
ReplyDelete>>Noelle Nikpour who was indignant about the White House sending out Christmas ornaments to be decorated by kids and sent back. Noelle was so stupid, complaining about the cost and the teacher's time being wasted. And saying that it was the Obamas' way of indoctrinating kids. My favorite part was when she said that Jewish people had their own "12 days" to celebrate. <<
The funny thing to me is that her name is "Noelle"!!
-lidia
Every time I try to post with "Name/URL" it's not accepted, hence Anonymous. I'd rather it weren't that way, but...
I agree about the pagan/atheists participating in the Christmas festivities. It's too bad some people want to be exclusive and selfish at such a time.
I notice Laura Ingraham and the teabaggers are using Christmas to "celebrate" their joy over the "killing" of health care reform. Shows you how much they care about the "Reason4theSeason". It's all cynical manipulation of religion and religionists.
Christopher ;
ReplyDeleteYOU do realize that it is blasphemous to speak as if you were God, right?
@anon (11:03)
ReplyDeleteYou wrote, "It is my belief that we are all God's children - even those who don't believe in God. But what people don't have the right to do, is to attack, insult, disrespect, mock, or deride those who do."
What people also don't have the right to do is mock, disrespect, attack, or demonize those who do not share Christian beliefs.
If you think this isn't happening, just look at some "Christians'" wish list:
Legislate Christianity so their beliefs are the law in the country,
Stick Jesus in every store and on every package,
Ostracize and 'call out' every (to them) non-believer
I'm left wondering, if there was a Jesus, what he'd think of being connected with a pagan celebration of the Winter solstice. Didn't you read Gryphen's post? It wasn't bashing Christians, even the milder, gentler type. It was giving the history of Christmas and opining that certain "Christians" are trying to make something of it that isn't, and can't be.
Peace and serenity to you, and be careful with your own intolerance.
Christopher @9:55
ReplyDeleteI liked your letter, but I had a problem with number 7. Exodus 20:8-11.
-Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
-Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
-But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
-For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day; wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."
So, as a Christian, I would be oppressed with the only Sunday rule. That's where that freedom of religion comes in. I was blessed through my forefathers, no doubt.
---
Gryphen, I did come to regret teaching my children that both the birth of Jesus and Santa Claus was Christmas Day. Kids do enjoy lights and colors and crafts and gifts and parades. And what an awesome sight watching a baby's eyes sparkle while looking at a colored ball or light hanging on a tree.
Anyway, Jesus said remember me while sitting at the table with family, in a home. That is why I am a strong advocate for the separation of church and state.
Speaking of Santa...
ReplyDeletePssst, Sarah, ol' girl:
Who do you suppose is at the very, very top of Santa's "Naughty List" this year?
Hmmm....
Patti, do you mean like how Sarah wrote that letter informing her family about Trig, signing it from God?
ReplyDeleteMorgan, would that actually be: The Witches' God: Lord of the Dance by Stewart Farrar and Janet Farrar? I checked out Amazon and came up with this along with one by same author(s) regarding the the female side of the old religions along with a couple of others by or about the same author(s). Looks interesting :)
ReplyDeleteAGGGHH! Christianity would be great if it weren't for those damn Christians! Seriously, you DO NOT have a RIGHT to foist your religious views on anybody! The Constitution does NOT give you the right to have our schools or government erect religious displays of which YOU approve. It is the epitome of arrogance to assume the condescending superiority necessary for such a position.
ReplyDeleteThe First Amendment states:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof...." That's it. Nothing more can be inferred. The government cannot require citizens to believe or partake in ANY religion or religious services and they cannot prohibit ANYBODY from practicing - or NOT practicing - ANY religion as they so choose.
If ANY governmental entity erects a nativity, that is a clear violation of the First Amendment. I would be willing to bet a year's salary that all of the Christians moaning about a lack of government sponsored Christian regalia would howl like banshees if their town erected some display to honor Eid al-Fitr, or Mawlid al-Nabi,or Wiccan Yule, or Krishna Jayanti, or Visakah Puja, or any other non-Christian holiday.
I am sick and tired of fundagelical Bible bullies who arrogantly try and ram their religious views down everyone else’s throats. I am an ordained Christian elder in a mainline denomination and I find these tactics to be offensive and un-American in the extreme. If you want a nativity, erect one in your front yard! You are free to do so. However, you do not have the right to force others to accept and endorse your religious views. Is your faith so shallow that it requires government erected displays to sustain it? Is your religion/denomination is so ineffective at evangelism that it requires governmental coercion to recruit new members?
There is no conflict between our Constitutional separation of church and state and Christianity:
Mark 12:17
“And Jesus said unto them, Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.”
Despite what the Talibangelicals would have us believe, this our country is NOT a theocracy and we are NOT a Christian nation. If you want to encourage others to believe as you do, you might want to try less condescension and bullying and more charity and love. After all, THAT was the model of Jesus Christ.
I come from an atheist family that thoroughly enjoyed celebrating Christmas, for the reasons you described. We sang carols that included odd lyrics like "to save us all from Satan's power", and had little manger scene candles that my sister and I eagerly looked forward to playing with at this special time.
ReplyDeleteChristmas is a celebration of sharing goodwill, lights, and food, with a variety of coexisting stories and traditions. I actually think rigid separation of church and state can be counterproductive, and only feeds the fundamentalist paranoia. Countries that have "state religions" (as in Europe) are often the most tolerant and secular. We should allow the mangers on public land. Merry Christmas.
Gasman, are you yelling at someone in particular or just at all Christians in general - or at least the Talibangelicals? If you are yelling at Gryphen, then I believe your anger is misdirected. He is only sharing the Santa Claus story which is not part of the Christian story.
ReplyDeleteMaybe I misunderstood your post. If so, my apologies.
Maybe Gryphen with his superlative knowledge of Christian theology can document in the traditions of gift giving, Christmas trees , and the celebration of the birth of Jesus, a precedent in other traditions of not merely an annointed figure (i.e. Mohammed or the Buddha) being a son of God but ALL humanity and the incarnation not being an isolated event in a dusty outpost of the Roman empire but one which is expressed in the birth of every child.
ReplyDeletePerhaps, Gryphen, with his seemingly bottomless knowledge of all things both of this world and apart from it can show a precedent for the sheer volume of music written to celebrate this historical event; music that has found it's way into almost every culture despite of it's political orientation.
Nothing original about Christmas?
To take that absurd statement to it's logical limit we would then have to say there was nothing "original" about the Life of Lincoln or the birth
of Copernicus--or the fact that we celebrate the life of the former on President's day.
Are the births of any Pharoahs celebrated as a national holiday (and one
in many countries)?
Have you looked at the calendar of Greek Holidays? Where is the birth or life of Socrates noted? Or his death?
Not content to drop your draws and urinate on whatever you find inconsistent with whatever morbid fantasies you consider to be unimpeachable truth, you find it necessary to find something to diminish Christmas as a day sacred to tens of millions around the world, ignoring that while it was not celebrated in NEW YORK CITY as an official holiday until early in the 2oth century, the history of art, literature, and music attests that it has been celebrated for centuries in Western Civilization without the need of Santa Claus to keep the breath of life in it.
The monastic chant "Natus est rex" was fisrt heard in the middle ages and while Santa Claus came late to New York, the inspiration for Santa Claus was Saint Nicholas of Myra, the fourth century Greek Archbishop who was renown for his gifts to the poor, most notably monetary gifts, doweries, to three pious women so they would not be taken into prostitution.
The German non-Christian Diety, Odin (13th Century), was believed to reward children for their kindness with gifts or candy.[21] This practice survived in Germany, When Christianity was adopted in Belgium and the Netherlands, "Saint Nicholas" was seen as the modern forerunner of filling stockings with gifts hanging on the chimney in some homes.
When the Dutch emigrated to America to New Amsterdam the practice followed them and survived prior to the British seizure of the colony in the 17th century.
So, you see, your feeble attempt to secularize the Holiday by attributing
the generosity of spirit expressed on the day to downtrodden New Yorkers is just so much more of your historical expediency.
The day has been universally celebrated as like no other day in the world's calendar as knock offs do not have such staying power.
Whose going away for the weekend on Confucius' birthday?
Gryphen......I'm having a big problem with this blog discussion. It seems to be more "God" bashing than anything else. I'm a Christian and thankful for it. I'm not a fanatic, as most ppl in here believe all Christians are, and I don't push my faith on anyone.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone believe in Miracles?? I do..and I'll tell you why. My son was diagnoised with a malignant brain tumor. After surgery, he was totally blind. For all practical purposes, he would live his short life in a vegetative state. This was the opinon of three neurosurgeons. Not to go into all details...after months in the hospital, I was allowed to take him home. I knew no physical therapy, etc., but human nature told me to work his muscles...I played music for him, talked to him.....and loved him....He came out of his comatos state....I would hand him toys...when he did not reach for them, I put them in his hand. One day, my precious son, reached out and took the toy. This was 7 months after his surgery. When he and I went back to the surgeon for a checkup....I told the Dr. to watch..When Michael reached out and took the toy, the Dr. {whom I don't believe was a Christian) looked at me with tears in his eyes and told me that if I had never witnessed a miracle that I was witnessing one then. He said that there was no medical explanation or way that Michael should be able to see. He said that all optic nerves had been destroyed during surgery. Yes, I BELIEVE IN MIRACLES...and some things cannot not be explained by humankind. You just take it by Faith. Michael learned to walk, again, talk, again, play again...and oneday he repeated the Pledge of Allegance that he learned from Romper Room. Yes, I BELIEVE IN MIRACLES. He passed away on Valentines Day...God's little Valentine...sooo much love.
Have a Very Merry Christmas everyone.
Jean
Pardon any typos..hard to type through tears...
You kristyuns have it all wrong. It's baby jesus who comes down your chimney on Kristmus eve. I saw him doing it and he even tried to kiss mommy. Mommy slapped his face and sent him packing. Oh, and even though he was still a baby he had long brown hair, hippy style.
ReplyDeleteJean at 3:21, If you believe in religious miracles and you're a christian, you're a fanatic by definition. You probably believe in witchs too don't you.
ReplyDeleteANON...3:21....You are cruel and inhumane
ReplyDeletePeople like Jean are dangerous if they don't keep their superstitious beliefs to themselves. And besides, it's probably all made up anyway. Doctors who are not kristyuns don't all of a sudden start believing in miracles when there is obviously an explanation for the recovery based on medical facts.
ReplyDeleteSo to prevent more people from being conned into Jean's superstitious beliefs it's necessary to speak up and call b.s. Jean needs to keep it to herself or keep it in religious circles where the people have already lost it. She shouldn't try to corrupt others with her beliefs. It's a harmful practice, pure and simple.
Well let's get back to the point of this post, which was that the holiday can be shared and enjoyed more fully if people resist the urge to take ownership of it.
ReplyDeleteI was not attempting to bash Christians, and I suggest others follow suit, but I was saying that keeping our minds open can enrich the holiday experience and allow us to learn something about a celebration that many take for granted.
I knew this post might be controversial but as most of you know I don't shy away from controversy because it gets people to talk and express their opinions while exposing them to the opinion of others.
Gasman @ 10:19, and the ever-lovely Morgan.
ReplyDelete"Odious turd -" I shall forever keep that fast in my ever-expanding lexicon of insults. Odious turd - oh I love that...
There is another I like: "a supercilious gasbag." Though somehow it just doesn't have the ring of odious turd...
Morgan - If I didn't know you were happily married, I'd kiss you right on the mouth. Yay for the gentle Wiccans, boo on the witch-burning 'c'hristian odious turds.
To Jean -
ReplyDeleteI am truly sorry for your loss; it is tough during the Holidays - even moreso than other times, which are terrible. Although I am not a believer, anyone who would ridicule you in your grief is IMHO beneath contempt.
If you believe a miracle happened, then I can assure you it really did. At least once a year I google up the Virginia O'Hanlon article (yes, there is a Santa Claus) to remind me that, just because things cannot be taken apart and examined and their workings catalogued does not mean that they are not real. Merry christmas.
kdusmdd: Thanks for sharing your story, and I'm sorry about your son. And yes, you do have ever right to believe in Miracles.
ReplyDeleteIn defense of Gryphen, however, I don't feel he was God bashing, and if you took it that way I suggest you re-read his post. In fact, he only mentioned God once, in the 'you can believe in whatever God you want', sense.
My point is, one can be critical of Religion without insulting religion and without bashing God. It seems some here, however (not you), can't take honest questions about Religion and how in terms of what ways it affects (both good and bad) society.
Jean -
ReplyDeletei'm glad your son was able to see again. My mom had lung cancer with brain mets and was told after surgery and radiation that her vision loss would not return. She was told this by the radiologist and the neurosurgeon and the opthalmologist. However, she too regained sight, but it was only because that the swelling in the optic nerve and chiasm eventually subsided enough that she could see. I think the doctors tell patients the worst case scenarios, but there are pts who are "outliers" who recover more than expected and vision returns. If you want to claim a miracle, that's your perogative. I've been a pediatric oncology nurse for 25 years and have never ever witnessed a miracle healing as much as I wish I had and as much as I used to pray for them. If anything, what I've seen over the years has made me doubt more than ever our lives being in the care of a loving god. It's more biology for me now - cells go bad and no amount of praying will help without medicine, and certainly medicine is imperfect. People are given more than they can handle, bad things happen to good and bad people, all the cliches people fo faith throw out to those in crisis mean nothing.
I have a hard time this time of year, remembering all the children who have died, caring for kids who will diagnosed with cancer on Christmas Eve (happens every single year).
Biology.
Peace to you.
And then there were the Puritans in the 1600s who frowned upon any festivities at Christmas time and rather stringently punished those caught celebrating Christmas with any kind of feasting, singing or jollility, because, for them the kinds of celebratory things one did at Christmas were too pagan.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Gryphen, and thank you, Santa Claus!
ReplyDeleteI don't read Gryphen's post as a bashing of Christmas, just a nostalgic hope that people could treat each other with respect and dignity for just one day. It's possible, but it's easier said than done, when people call others "socialist" or "muslims" (as if these things are inherantly evil) or write fiction in the name of "Your Heavenly Father"... that's not what religion nor faith are about.
ReplyDeleteI used to believe in miracles, until my father suffered for seven years, was told he beat cancer, then died a horrible death from the cancer he "beat" , I believed in miracles until My spouse was taken from me in a violent crime. I used to believe in miracles until my child died in my arms. I used to believe in miracles until I was excommunicated from the Church for refusing to pay to be a "Catholic in good standing" after neglecting to give while caring for my dad.
Am I bitter? No
Do I still celebrate Christmas? Yes
Do I care if someone loves differently from me? If someone puts a nativity set on their lawn? If someone believes in a different religion or in no religion at all? If someone has an abortion or performs abortions? No
The AHA bus ads are mere propaganda that answers to an argument that no one has made. The claim is not that atheists lack of morals but lack of moral premise, lack of ethos.
ReplyDeleteIt is also a reprinting of their ads from last year:
http://atheismisdead.blogspot.com/2008/11/another-atheist-charity-huge-success.html
And they are all a part of the atheist bus ads fracas:
http://atheismisdead.blogspot.com/2009/08/atheism-essays-particular-to-atheist.html
Yet again, during a time of the year when people are generally more inclined towards charity—peace on earth and good will towards non-gender specific personages—atheists are busily collecting hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars during a time of recession not in order to help anyone in real material need but in order to purchase bill boards and bus ads whereby they seek to demonstrate, to themselves, just how clever they are—need any more be said?