Thursday, June 24, 2010
Porky Pig is a Communist? Who knew?
From the Religious Tolerance website:
Between 1924 and 1954, the Pledge of Allegiance was worded:
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
In 1954, during the McCarthy era and communism scare, Congress passed a bill, which was signed into law, to add the words "under God." The current Pledge reads:
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
The Pledge is recited, on average, tens of millions of times a day -- largely by students in schools across America.
As many of you know I worked in the Anchorage School District for a number of years.
Personally I was always very uncomfortable leading the children through the Pledge of Allegiance in the mornings. In fact when I was not in front of the class I would simply place my hand over my heart and move my lips silently because I find the whole thing a little fascist for my tastes. After all simply demanding that children recite a pledge of allegiance to a flag every morning does NOT instill a respect and love of their country. What makes this country great is the freedom to disagree with it's policies and the leaders who implement them.
Of course that is simply my opinion, and I kept my mouth shut and went through the motions for the benefit of the schoolchildren who are not yet ready to deal with such complex issues.
However I think the one part of the Pledge that seems like a no brainer to remove is the "under God" portion. In this day and age with SO many diverse religious beliefs mingling in the public school setting it is very disrespectful to demand that children pledge allegiance to a God that their religious tradition does not accept.
I had Hindu children, Muslim children, and even on a Jehovah's Witness come through my classrooms. And every single one of them were instructed to stand up, place their hand over their heart, and pledge their allegiance to a piece of cloth on the wall and a Christian god. I don't think I will ever forget the confused look on that little Hindu girl's face the first time she was asked to do that.
(By the way the one child who had the most difficult time assimilating into the public school system, was not the Muslim boy or Hindu girl, it was the pupil whose family were practicing Jehovah's Witnesses. They do not believe in ANY holidays (even the watered down "holiday celebration" that replaced Christmas in the public schools) or birthdays. I remember watching this little girl sitting by herself in a corner while the rest of the children enjoyed cupcakes brought in by a mother to celebrate her child's birthday. The little girl was simply not allowed to participate. All I could think at the time was what a shame that after we have achieved so much success in teaching children that we are not identified by the color of our skin that religion can still separate us so dramatically.)
Well I have told you my feelings on the Pledge of Allegiance and the "under God" portion, and since I know that many of you are bright opinionated people I have no doubt that there are those who will not agree with my opinion, so I invite you to tell me what YOU think of the Pledge, and of the portion added in 1954 to frighten away the Commies.
My only request is that we NOT insult people based on their religious, or lack or religious, beliefs. I am all about openly expressing our opinions but let us remember that some people have very strong beliefs that are very important to them. No need to make anybody feel unnecessarily defensive.
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OOOOOOHHHHH BOY, Gryphen, YOU ARE GONNA GET IT NOW from the trolls and lip-service patriotic right-wingers!!!
ReplyDeleteThat caveat up front - I totally agree with you on this issue - I grew up in Europe, where something like the Pledge of Allegiance would have had too much of a Nazi-inspired connotation, so it was/is very much frowned upon!
I like the original Pledge; written by a Baptist minister, by the way! HE apparently understood that we are a nation comprised of many beliefs.
ReplyDeletehttp://oldtimeislands.org/pledge/pledge.htm
one of my favorite topics! Who's God? Which God? Your God ? My God? Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, Shinto, Pagan, Jungle God, Earth Momma?
ReplyDeleteOr the Judeo-Christian God which is just code for Jesus.
(Susie here) You said something about the pledge being to a flag and a Christian God. There's nothing about Christianity in the pledge. The very religeosly generic word God was inserted, which would cover Jews, Muslims, Christians, and others. It's one thing to debate whether any religeous words should be in the pledge or not, but don't say that this wording is any more Christian than it is Jewish or Muslim, etc.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree and I'm a teacher.
ReplyDeleteI grew up with the "Under God" as It was added about the time I was born.
ReplyDeleteI think that the UG is unnecessary and probably unconstitutional. When I am in a place where I have to recite the pledge I just mumble the "UG" part or quietly say under Dog.
I have no problem with the pledge as it was pre-'54. I read it as pledging my allegiance to the country and the flag is just something to look at.
I pledge my allegiance to the United States of America. One nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for some.
"Personally I was always very uncomfortable leading the children through the Pledge of Allegiance in the mornings...I find the whole thing a little fascist for my tastes." OMG, Gryphen, when I was teaching I felt exactly the same way. It felt very UN-American.
ReplyDeleteIt's been insideous how the Christian religeous conservatives have wormed and wiggled these "little things" into our American poticial discourse. Not only do we now have "Under God" in the pledge, but "In God We Trust" on our money, biblical inscriptions on Federal government buildings and federally mandated "Day of Prayer". This sort of thing is like mold; even a tiny bit left unscrubbed and bleached will multiply like crazy and leave behind a bunch of problems. - Hedgewytch
ReplyDeleteI actually refused to stand up and say the pledge of allegiance when I was in fourth grade because I thought as long as poor people and minorities and women were treated badly—the flag didn't work. No liberty for all. I was made to stand up afterwards. My mom said I didn't have to say the words and I haven't spoken the words in decades. The "under god" freaked me out even as a kid because in the sixties we truly believed in a separation of church and state and practiced it.
ReplyDeleteI too find the pledge a bit fascist. I think if we had more European history taught in this country we'd be a bit more leery of these things.
I completely agree, gryphen.
ReplyDeleteand in 1956, 2 years after adding "one nation under god" to the pledge, congress designated "in god we trust" as the official motto of the us. which begs the question - wtf was going on in the 50's in this country?
for as long as I can remember, I have always felt it was stupid to pledge your allegiance to a flag. it's early indoctrination of the children - and we wonder why we are plagued with so many nationalists in this country.
Until about the third grade, we kids just giggled our way through the pledge, listening to some of the slower among us, mangle the words (republic and indivisible being the words that tripped them up the most).
ReplyDeleteBut by the age of 8, most of us had seen some stuff about the Nazis, on tv. Even if it was only "Hogan's Heroes" it was still easy to see who the "bad guys" were.
And it was enough to make us feel pretty hypocritical, as we were asked each morning to mimic something that had "BRAINWASHING" written all over it...something the Hitler Youth would no doubt have relished doing.
Some teachers, back in the mid-50s, even had us doing it with our arms stretched out in the "seig heil" fashion, which REALLY made us squirm.
I only hazily recall being told we were to also include the "under God" portion, from then on. Every kid I saw reacting to that, just shrugged their shoulders with a "whatEVER" attitude.
It could have been "under Allah" and none of us would have said a word--we were resigned to doing what we were told, and there didn't seem to be any advantage in bucking what the establishment decreed.
By 1968, however, we'd had ENOUGH.
Totally onboard with you about this, Gryphen.
ReplyDeleteAlthough, when in school, you don't realize the Pledge is a form of government & religious indoctrination. It was just something done every day by every student. Of course, when I was in school (60's-early 70's) it was pretty much American & Christian & White.
ReplyDeleteHowever, now students come in a variety of nationalities, ethnic backgrounds, religions, and family styles. The "one size fits all" does not apply the same as it did in the 60's. As schools have needed to adapt to mainstreaming Disabled students, each district should re-consider The Pledge.
Also, many Textbook changes proposed for schools are "endorsed" by Fundamental Christian board members in the "bible belt" and carried throughout all the US school districts. Historical accuracies are being tweaked to fit their belief system. A excellent book on how school districts change historic facts "The Language Police"
I love God and my country;
ReplyDeleteI honor the flag;
I will serve the Queen, and cheerfully obey my parents, teachers, and the law.
That's the Loyal Declaration. It was a British institution that long predated the Communist hysteria, and was a part of school life throughout the British Empire (which used to be huge, leading to the truism "the sun never sets on the British Empire").
When I was in primary school we chanted it every Monday morning and raised the Australian flag and sang 'God Save the Queen'.
In the seventies Australia and Britain got divorced big-time, and Aussie kids were free to just stumble into class on Monday mornings, and 'God Save the Queen' was dumped as our national anthem, but I doubt the ritual ever meant a thing to any kid anywhere in the world.
"I think that the UG is unnecessary and probably unconstitutional. When I am in a place where I have to recite the pledge I just mumble the "UG" part or quietly say under Dog."
ReplyDeleteAs an atheist I also say "under dog." My sister made the mistake of saying that when she was in school, and being the younger one, I picked up on it when I started school.
I went to school before that was added. I really never gave it much thought. But thinking about it today, my thoughts are there is only one God. We call him by different names, but the person saying the pledge knows what name to put on his God.
ReplyDeleteAs a child I was actually labeled anti social because I asked WHY a lot. Why do we talk to a flag? What does it mean? I asked why do black people not attend our school/church? Why do we go to church on Sunday then Uncle Joe calls black people bad names? I thought we are suppose to love our neighbors? I know I probably drove everyone nuts but I was 7 and honestly wanted to know.
ReplyDeleteWhen you get older and learn that what is taught in grade through high school is basically a cleaned up version of history you wake up.
WOW, who gives a shit about 'UG,' when I was in the 6th grade public school in 1948, they marched our class across the street to a church each week to hear some kind of short sermon.
ReplyDeleteSo much for any separation of church and state. At least, I think it wasn't Catholic.
Susie, nice try but the intent in the McCarthy years was obviously the Christian god.
ReplyDeleteAnd, I don't believe in God and we don't brainwash our daughter either so if she ever is forced to recite a pledge, she will be confused, or amused or both!
One is allowed NO GOD in America and no one should be required to recite a pledge to anything in a free country.
Thanks to Chris about the site to visit. It was a quick and enlightening read.
ReplyDeleteI don't think "under God" should be in the pledge either. I personally believe in God, and I respect people who do attend temple, synagogue, or church but I choose not affiliate with any organized religion.
I do not respect anyone who believes they must convert others to their belief system or use laws to force everyone in a society to live by a religious code only they believe in because otherwise how are we different from living under the Taliban mentality?
"God" in our culture has indeed become synonymous with Jesus, and the Pledge, I believe, plays into that narrow perspective. We can kid ourselves that it is more generic, but I think if we all pushed against it, we'd find out pretty quick which believers would come out to put us in our place.
It seems always to be the evangelical Christians who seem almost violent in their zeal to make us conform. I've always thought it was because they are so afraid of their God, that they cannot abide anyone not being afraid. It's as if our behavior reflects upon them. They talk about Jesus, but they live like they are living under the Old Testament vengeful God who will wipe out entire cities because only some of its inhabitants annoyed Him. I thought Jesus came to end that totalitarian type of religious regime. Guess I was wrong. Misery does seem to love company, doesn't it?
Popcorn Time!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20100624/us-palin-ethics-complaint/
When I was in the fourth grade, I stopped saying the P of A. Stopped completely. I remember feeling uncomfortable about the "God" part of it ... (I was dragged to church every Sunday and felt very uncomfortable about that as well). I stood silently, no hand over my heart or anything. I'll never forget how agitated I felt. No one told me to stop this, not my parents, siblings, friends, etc. I JUST FELT UNCOMFORTABLE.
ReplyDeleteTo this day, I will not stand for any group recitation or song pledging allegiance to any one or thing. I also have become a very spiritual person in my dotage. By the by, any trolls out there, I love my country--I just hate seeing it being systematically destroyed.
We don't do the pledge in my classroom, even though we were told we had to. It's district policy. I just sort of forget to do it. How unAmerican is it to require everyone to salute a flag. Never made sense to me.
ReplyDeleteI have never understood the common concept of "patriotism". I want the best for America, but by the same token, I expect the government to do the best it can for its people...all of its people. DO ALL YOU CORRUPT, MONEY-GRUBBING POLITICIANS AT ALL LEVELS (cough, Sarah) HEAR THAT?
Some religions have more than one God.
ReplyDeleteAnd did you all notice the flag only had 48 stars?
Gryphen and all - looks like a ruling is expected TODAY TODAY TODAY --- http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=11005420
ReplyDeleteIs this why scarah van fleas posted that ominous freaky facebook posting ?? I can't wait.....
Pledging to the flag is a bit bogus anyway.
ReplyDeleteThe military pledges to the Consitution, which is a much more meaningful object to which to swear an oath of loyalty and obedience.
My biggest discomfort in getting all gaga over the flag is that the origins of national flags is on the battle field. In the good old day of face to face slaughter, your king, lord, owner whoever, fought under his own unique colors and his flag went onto the battle field along with many others for other kings, lords, and whoevers so that in the melee of battle people could find their commander. (Example France eventually had a national flag, but if the King of France personally went into battle he went under his personal flag, the fleur de lis, and every duke and earl and marquis had his own flag.)
If your commander was about to be taken in battle your bugler called his guys to his flag (rally round the flag boys was literal)so that he and his flag would not be killed or taken.
The red on our flag is for blood spilled in battle, it is not for just for equality or even for religious faith.
Making a bloody emblem of slaughter an object to take a oath to, does not, to me represent the ideals of this nation. For most of the 200+ wars this nation has fought it means wanton destruction.
I would pledge to the Constitution and/or the Declaration of Independance any day.
And then there is the enormous problem of exactly whose God are we swearing to, so why go there.
It's fine to pledge allegiance to a flag or a country - if you're a member of the military of that country.
ReplyDeleteWhat the heck does that type of "contract" (to serve a flag or country) have anything to do with getting an education? Really?
If we go to school, does this mean we enter into an implied contract to serve our country in some way? Last I checked, there wasn't any mandatory military service at this time in the US (and there wasn't when I was growing up.) So why must kids connect these two things in their minds EVERY morning through a public pledge of allegiance?
If schools had a service requirement, even if it was helping the homeless or doing something else nice as part of learning about social contracts, helping one's neighbords, serving a larger community beyond themselves, then I could understand this.
But schools encourage nothing but selfishness and competitiveness - ace that test, outperform your neighbor to get into the right school so you can get the right job for a juicy amount of money - these were the values of the '80's, certainly, when I was going to school - the height of the Reagan era.
Teach kids about selflessness, learning about the suffering of others and addressing that suffering, and what a social contract is all about - but don't force rote mumbling of allegiance to something they don't even understand. It's all bogus mind control when done in such a way.
And God shouldn't enter into the public schools at all. Period. Private religious schools, fine. Public schools, no. One's spiritual life is a private matter, or something you express within the context of your family's religion or belief system. No way is it in any way appropriate to force that on students in a public school.
And what about atheists, anyway? Why do we have to mumble about pledging ourselves to the Spaghetti Monster in the Sky every morning? It's complete and utter nonsense and bizarre to people like us. And yes, I was an atheist when I was a child and no, my parents are not atheists and did not force this "belief" upon me. Children DO have independent minds, sometimes!
"I thought Jesus came to end that totalitarian type of religious regime."
ReplyDeleteMe as well.
Christians of the Old Testement aren't really following the teachings of Christ are they? And neither are the end or dayers who skip the Gospels and go to Revelations and other Beckian drug induced visions, that are completely devoid of the words and teachings of the Gospels.
It's only Christian. Jews do not go around inserting G-d and religion in everything.
ReplyDeleteThanks to anon who gave the background on the history of flags. I was wrangling in my brain how to write that up in a short space and was delighted to find it already done.
ReplyDeleteI always thought the idea of pledges and oaths were silly. What's the point? I see it as a way to make someone "one of us" as opposed to an "other." An initiation into the club. Boy Scouts, Girls Scouts, Allegiance to a flag, jury duty. WTF? Is it an official contract? It's straight out of the medieval feudal system of nobles and knights swearing fealty to the king.
So my burning question is this:
Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
I do not.
What comes next?
I believe that our founding fathers would have a problem with the pledge of Allegiance because even without "under god" people should have freedom of speech and not be forced to recite the Pledge if they are uncomfortable with it. We are also silly if we think pledging allegiance to a flag is going to make us more patriotic and defend our country. Look at just how many Republican politicians who claim they are true patriots yet they are unwilling to fight or have their children fight for our country Cheney (5 deferments), Bush Sr. served (but none his 3 brothers, or 4 sons served Bush Jr. didn’t really serve and only one of his grandchildren served), Rumsfeld (7 deferments) Mitt Romney and all five sons didn't serve Mr. Tangerine Man and Mr. Turtle didn’t serve either. The list is long and plenty for these so called patriot cowards.
ReplyDeleteI am against indoctrination of any flavor. I don't say UG when at school functions and peer pressure of other parents makes me have to say the Pledge of Allegiance. I think it is stupid. I cringe and refuse to place my hand over my heart. Until we truly have equal liberty and justice for all, it's just meaningless words. It is sort of fascist. And leave God out of it. There is no proof there is a God, it is just human nature to need a higher power to blame or cling to.
ReplyDeleteSometimes i really think that earth and humans are just an alien kids science fair experiment that is going rogue on him.. Wouldn't that be a pisser????
IMO the "under God" does not belong in the pledge. I don't recite it when saying the pledge. I just close my lips and skip it. I'm a teacher. When the phrase was added in the '50's, lots of kids hesitated and to this day, the hesitation can be heard in recitation.
ReplyDeleteMy students don't recite the pledge daily. We don't have a flag in the classroom. There is a flag in the assembly hall and students recite the pledge once a week at assembly. However, lots of kids choose to opt out and that is allowed as well.
I was literally dragged to my feet by a teacher when I was 15 when I refused to recite the pledge. He got in my face and screamed at me. I told him I would never recite the pledge and he couldn't make me. I have never recited it since and I will not. I love my country but I will not recite a rote BS crappola propaganda tripe loyalty pledge to a piece of material in the name of God. I would be happy to stand up voluntarily and say that I love my country and will defend it against true enemies. (Like Sarah Palin). I believe in the Constitution (the real one, not that mythical fake Christianista one) and in my country. I do not believe in ignorant assholes. Nor will I ever be forced to accept the LIE that this country is a Christian nation.
ReplyDeleteFunny how the addition of the phrase "under God" actually creates the division the oath proclaims to dissolve.
ReplyDeleteSuch is the paradox of religion.
i agree with anonymous @8:29, because powers that be realize that there were different religions in the melting pot of the USA "GOD" is like a universal word> It doesn't relate to only Christianity, Hindus, Muslim etc, have a God they may just say a dfferent name. It doesn't say under Jesus, Mary, Allah, or Buddhist, it just said 'UNDER GOD," and I personnaly like that we're having our life under a higher being. We did not just create our selves, and a lot of us pray to a higher being.
ReplyDeleteMany of us do not believe in any "higher" power. That is why the USA is great. We have the freedom to not worship "higher" powers.
ReplyDeleteSo of us believe in principles. Like all are created equal.
So it is okay for you to not say the pledge because you do not believe in God. Is it okay for teachers to refuse to acknowledge gay "marriage" because they don't believe in it? You all are claiming freedom and your rights to follow what you believe. I would like to hear your answers to this. Serious answers would be appreciated rather than ridicule or accusations of bigotry. thank you.
ReplyDeleteOoh I'm so glad that we have nothing like this in Australia. How terrible for those little children to feel as though there is something wrong with them because they look to a different god or gods or have no god. I've never really been a believer and I knew this at school.
ReplyDeleteHad I been forced to recite the preamble to our constitution which i don't think mentions god but let's pretend - I'd have rebelled.
It is flat out indoctrination of sorts. Not to mention unconstitutional! That's promoting some religions over others. Presumably Christian but even if they deny that argument it is definately promoting one god religions over religions with no one called god (Hindu and Islam) and those with no real god ie buddism.
It's tantamount to being an outcast if you are not Christian or Jewish.
I can hardly believe schoolchildren do this in public schools!? Is that correct?!
Gryphen: was this a post in reference to the atheist bill boards causing a kerfuffle? Did you hear? I assume you have as it's very similar. The billboards say the original words 'one nation indivisible' with a US flag which is a lovely sentiment I think.
Anyway, the news segment I saw (search 'atheist media blog' on YouTube) was talking about it being offensive and spoke to some ignoramouses that found it offensive. Too stupid to know the original words and too ignorant to understand the sentiment is actually more Christ-like without the 'under god' part isn't it!!!???
One nation, indivisible. It's great. Everybody welcome. I wish out preamble had such wise words!
Lol I know who tangerine man is but who is mr turtle? Mcconnell?
ReplyDeleteCould be worse - I'm English, and our national anthem really sucks.
ReplyDeleteSince I am an atheist and a republican.
God save our gracious queen.
Long live our noble queen
God save the queen.
Just listen to our fans singing that at the world cup, really makes me feel the English can at least equal some American stupidity.
And the Americans love the queen!
PS we had to sing our national anthem twice weekly in junior school up to the age of 10.
I absolutely agree with you, Gryphen. There is a distinctly un-American feel to the requirement to pledge allegiance because it implies that we follow our leaders without question just because they are our leaders. Creepy to the max.
ReplyDeleteAs a child and later as an educator, I too felt it was not right to ask everyone to recite "one country under God" because even as an elementary student I knew some people didn't believe in a God, believed in multiples gods, or simply did not feel religion should be paraded in public as it was a private matter. At that age, I did not realize you could not believe, but as an adult I feel it is crucial we protect a citizen's right not to believe as much as we protect someone's right to believe in any faith they chose.
It is so sad that we have succumb to superficial patriotism, superficial faith (religiosity), and superficial knowledge of anything.
That Cain could say that a President need not know things or that Bachmann would be so stupid as to say China should serve as our societal model (does she not realize it is a Communist country?), is sad.
That people who say they believe in our Constitution but want to force a religion, any religion down everyone's throat is sad. They are surface runners who do not understand the first thing about the Constitution.
Thank you for tackling these issues. We need people to give more thought and have more discussion on them.