From the War Room:
To an audience of about 50 people -- fully half of whom were members of the press -- Pastor Bill Keller launched his 9-11 Christian Center at ground zero this morning with a fiery sermon targeting Muslims and Mormons as hell-bound followers of false faiths. Keller took aim in particular at Glenn Beck, a Mormon, and Imam Rauf, the organizer of the Park51 Islamic community center.
Keller, an extremist Internet evangelist from Florida, spoke at a drab ballroom of the Marriott hotel two blocks south of ground zero for the launch of his Christian Center, a response to Park51. He told the audience, which included a couple of 9/11 Truther protesters, that he is scouting three possible locations for a permanent church.
I have to say that as nutty as this guy seems to be, he is dead right in his description of Mormonism and how it differentiates from Christianity. Sure he is a hateful little fear monger, but he is a hateful little fear monger who seems to believe what he is saying, which is more than can be said for Mr. Beck.
Here you can watch this guy's sermon for yourself:
This is an interesting video to watch today because I was just now reading this great book called "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong, who was once a nun in the Roman Catholic Church.
It is a very interesting book which chronicles the the evolution of religion on this planet and how monotheism became the dominant belief system that we know today. I certainly would not call it a simple read, but in my opinion before you insist that the God you worship is the only TRUE God you should definitely have finished this book first. It is my belief that once you have read it you will unable to make that assertion.
Well at least not honestly.
I was born & raised a Catholic and left the church because it no longer appealed to me. But when I look around, it's really all organized religions that I have a problem with.
ReplyDeleteReligions say their aim is to be open/tolerant of others but most of them preach an us vs. them attitude. Kind of like nations or sporting teams.
If there's a creator, I'm pretty sure they didn't mean for this. What would be the point?
I'm happy to live the rest of my life contributing to the betterment of my community and those I come across.
And I'll still find myself in awe of some of the truly beautiful stuff in this world.
But religion has divided humanity second to only political ideology and I'll wager a few bucks that on our respective deathbeds, we won't be thinking about either.
Know people by their actions, that's the only way to tell good from bad.
God is everywhere.
ReplyDeleteEspecially in nature.
Harry Reid is Mormon. I have Mormon friends who dislike Beck. I don't want to get into a piss contest. I don't believe in none of them.
ReplyDeleteFair is fair. The Mormons I know have gay friends, interracial marriage, tattoos, and I never asked about the magic underwear. :) As long as you don't hurt anyone you can believe in purple bunnies for all I care. The haters are the one's I stay away from. This guy is a hater.
um, he *does* know who owns Marriott, doesn't he? You know, started out in DC with a root beer stand, etc???
ReplyDeleteAs for these fire & brimstone types, the old folks around here summed them up pretty well: Come Sunday afternoon you'd see them leaving a parishioner's house either wiping chicken grease off their face or zipping up their pants.
Finally, some equal opportunity hate. Catholics, Mormons, Scientologists, Jews, Agnostics, and even Atheists have all been getting off way too easily!
ReplyDeleteI like your blog a lot. But I've got to question why Mormons are ok to put down but not Muslims? Both should be entitled to believe however they choose.
ReplyDeleteI mean this in a broad sense, it's as if Christians and/or Mormons are ok to mock in contemporary America, but somehow treating, in this case, Muslims they same is some act of racism and bigotry.
I just don't understand tolerating some beliefs and deriding others. Please explain in future post?
Isn't it interesting that there are so many people, mostly not from NYC, who intend to do their construction on ground zero.
ReplyDeleteGround zero is going to be very crowded with the new sky scrapers and everybody else building there.
Oh, yeah and there's that mosque that isn't really a mosque that isn't at ground zero, but they can't renovate a building they are already using, because they are Muslim.
The whole world sees and laughs.
I have mixed feelings on this guy. I do like him calling out Glen Beck who so richly deserves it! I wish he had nailed Sarah, too.
ReplyDeleteI want to read the book you mentioned. I've been a practicing -- albeit a questioning one -- Catholic most of my life. The God I believe in wants us to get along, be honest, and do what is right. That almost sounds too simple but it works for me and I think those are the basic tenets of most true religions.
Do Glen and his followers do that? I think not.
My favorite quote from Gandhi: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians; they are so unlike your Christ."
I have read The History of God and can attest that it is very sobering. Most people will not be able to read it as it will challenge and quite possibly change their world view (and that is just not acceptable to a lot of people).
ReplyDeletePersonally, I believe our Native Americans come the closest in understanding God...the circle of life concept.
Wow. See, this is why I don't attend church any more. This and the cranky church ladies.
ReplyDeleteGryphen,
ReplyDeleteHave you read "How Jesus Became Christian" by Barrie Wilson?
I read History of God some time ago and just finished the Wilson book. Very interesting. Will make you question lots of things and probably go back to the Bible to remember what it says.
Hope you have a good Labor Day weekend.
Surfpnsbch
Also I appreciate this guy presenting an evil conspiracy theory against Glenn Beck, the ultimate conspiracy theorist himself.
ReplyDelete11:42. I agree with you! Well said.
ReplyDeletedidn't the daily show profile this guy when they did a piece on he "ground zero mosque"? i recognize that guy's ridiculous hair and his closed mind. i'm trying to imagine myself going every sunday to be talked to like this. nope, wouldn't happen. and though i no longer go to church , i was raised catholic and went to catholic school for 13 years and was never talked to like this except by one or two zealots.
ReplyDeletesomeone needs to get this guy to read some joseph campbell - i love his notion that god has many/infinite faces. this hater is wasting his time.
11:57: I agree with you as well. Great comment.
ReplyDeleteto NoMooseStew: Your comment: "As long as you don't hurt anyone you can believe in purple bunnies for all I care. The haters are the one's I stay away from. summarizes my feelings exactly. Thank you1
ReplyDelete12:14: The old folks in your area are so right. Seen that myself. Anyone who shouts fire and brimstone probably has a lot to hide. They project their own feelings of inadequacy and sin onto others to make themselves feel better and to avoid someone pointing out their shortcomings and hypocrisy.
ReplyDeleteSarah, a devout Evangelical, is now a tight buddy to Glenn Beck, a Mormon.
ReplyDeleteHow is this possible?
Don't get me wrong Anonymous 12:38, my feelings about ALL organize religions is pretty much the same. The reason I posted this view is because we are seeing evangelicals start to call Glenn Beck out over using religious themes because they do not consider him a REAL Christian.
ReplyDeleteGlenn Beck is a fairly dangerous person so I find the idea of his being called out due to the same sort religious intolerance that HE uses against people who disagree with him to be quite delicious.
And all faiths are welcome here, as well as those who refuse to limit themselves to only one religious perspective, just don't ever attempt to make the case that your belief is superior to anybody else's.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAND, since this is SEPTEMBER 5, not 11, he could take a class in remedial calendar reading as well... That may keep him busy for years given his intelligence level.
ReplyDeleteEmily, as a former Mormon myself, maybe you ought to read what Brigham Young had to say about God and Mary.
ReplyDeleteI will never understand why humans can't simply be responsible for themselves and their ideology without having to have a "raison d'être" which they choose to call God.
ReplyDeleteWe are a happy mistake of evolution. Why not just enjoy it and stop looking for a higher power?
This need for a higher power is the fundamental weakness of humans and our big brains. It will also be our undoing rather than our salvation.
The irony is so rich that if there was a God he or she would be laughing heartily at our folly.
I also was Catholic, I believe in God, I also believe in my own interpretation of the Bible, every Priest has a different one! And I believe the churches if they are going to be involved in politics should have to pay taxes
ReplyDeleteIt will be interesting to see what happens. While the Evangelicals and Mormons each want to convert the other, they've fairly recently found common ground politically, joining forces against gays and women's rights.
ReplyDeleteWhat's with this guy's wide stance and bent knees? It looks like he would topple if he stood fully upright.
He's the 'Gold for Souls' internet pastor who makes money praying for people.
http://www.liveprayer.com/
"Keller earned a degree from Jerry Falwell's Liberty University while serving three years in prison for insider trading. He became a television and Internet pastor when he was released in the early 1990s and now claims a following of 2.4million."
http://tinyurl.com/2wn5uyp
And many thanks for the book recommendation!
I wondered why no one on the far religious right has played the 'Glenn Back as anti-Christ' card yet. Guess that's what's coming next. This is what cracks me up. These folks all think they get along now, but if they ever are able to push a pseudo-theocracy through, they'd be at each other's throats in no time over nitpicky doctrinal crap--ala this classic from Emo Philips:
ReplyDelete"Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"
Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over."
Question - if you have a christian nation - which version of christianity should you use? Should we put the Pope in charge of the US govt, we have what 3-4 catholics on US Supreme, should they consult with pope before issuing opinions? How about jehovah witnesses passing laws about blood transfusions. Southern Baptists banning alcohol sales. Fred Phelps thinks God told him every dead US soldier is because of the gays, is his the right version? This once again shows the foresight of the founding fathers - Congress shall pass no law establishing a state religion.
ReplyDeleteEven hating Beck is not enough to make me agree with this fool. This man is doing his best to start a religious war in this country. He's as dangerous as Beck and Palin when it comes to hate mongering.
ReplyDeleteEveryone is an Atheist to some degree. I just believe in one fewer God than most.
ReplyDeleteThere are so many interesting responses to this topic!
ReplyDeleteI believe the point about Beck is that he seems to be working for/with the evangelicals, but the evangelicals do not believe that Mormonism is a Christian religion. He joins them to speak out against Muslims and they accept him in that role. It does not mean they accept his religion. They don't.
Beck and Palin had the anti-catholic Hagie guy at the recent honor rally. This was the same guy that McCain PURSUED for an endorsement once he won the primary.
It seems like the right wing evangelical haters join forces with mormons and catholics to spread their anti-muslin views.
It is only a matter of time before
they will be back to spewing their hate back at the Catholics and Mormons.
Wow. I wonder if Glenn Beck really tithes 10% of all of his income before taxes, expenses etc.
ReplyDeleteAll this worrying about dying. How many people really live their lives?
ReplyDeleteI do not care what you believe.
I do not care if you believe in marriage for homosexuals or not.
I do not care when you believe life begins.
It is your BELIEF. It has no more weight then the next guys.
What I profoundly believe in is the individual. The pack mentality is a waste of one's life and a danger to all.
My two cents.
Oh my, and the Mormon church has just spent a pretty penny on "I'm a Mormon" ads running in nine cities to show how normal and cool they are.
ReplyDeleteWith respect to Emily, I suggest she do a little more research on God/Mary/Jesus issue. She might be surprised.
wes ben @12:49------
ReplyDeleteI got the same vibe about Native Americans seemingly getting it right. I'm sure as their culture developed and evolved, the way they view "God" changed over time but the basic premise remained the same. And I think it fits todays science a lot closer as well. Planet Earth, turns out, is just a smaller version of it all.
Perhaps a more engaging read on the evolution of religion is The Source by James Michener. One of the best two or three books I've read. After that, he lived in Sitka for 2 years reasearching Alaska -- another great read (a particularly compelling chapter is called The War, in which an Aleut shaman and orthodox priest battle over the soul of a young woman).
ReplyDeleteThis is becoming a GREAT BIG RELIGIOUS D@#k FIGHT. All this stuff is really about MONEY.
ReplyDeleteIt must be really CHEAP to build or rehab a building in NYC.....ya think.
I wonder...do the people who choose to allow these people to be their religious leaders ever ask any questions of these leaders BEFORE deciding to join their churches or do they just take the word of another person who has also not questioned the religious leaders beliefs or background?
I'm from Florida. Would you please save us the embarrassment and take out the fact he's from Florida. Being that you live in Alaska, I'm sure you understand.
ReplyDeleteI will tell you what Anonymous 5:57, I won't judge all Floridians based on this guy's insanity if YOU don't judge all Alaskans based on Sarah Palin.
ReplyDeleteDeal?
Well stated, Anon@11:42 AM.
ReplyDeleteI was in line at the movies the other night and met a pastor of a local church. The pastor commented that my child, who was with me, was quite delightful. And I said, yes, I had a very sociable child. The pastor then said, Oh I could use a child like that in my youth group to do evangelism work.
ReplyDeleteI don't know why, but that statement left me uncomfortable. I do attend a church, coincidently of the same denomination as that of the pastor, so I'm surprised at my feelings.
I know I started to have very negative feelings about the Catholic Church (which I left) due to the cover up of the child molestations. In addition, over the past few years, I've been fairly disgusted by the nasty way the Religious Right was politicized EVERYTHING: God, patriotism, even motherhood.
I'm sorry if this is coming out disjointed. I'm just so tired tonight.
It makes me so angry. Those bastards are tainting everything.
Could this buddy buddy thing between Beck and Palin signal a Romney/Palin ticket in 2012?
ReplyDeleteHe brings the corporate experience and daddy-will-take-care-of-you BS while she brings the hate and folksy-hockey-mommy crap.
One of the more valuable aspects of this book is a fairly digestible chronological portrayal of the evolution of Islam thought and practice.
ReplyDeleteJust like Christianity and Judaism, Islam has toggled back and forth between fundamentalist and quite liberal interpretations of their Holy Books.
The radical Islam that is the source of today's trouble does not at all reflect the entirety of its religious history.
In fact, the name "Cordoba" for the mosque/community center is meant to invoke the time of Muslim rule in Spain of great religious tolerance and advancement of secular learning.
I don't know why this is not more emphasized in the MSM. And I wish ALL Americans would pick up this book and at least read the passages regarding Islam.
Especially the Beck and Palin followers.
MicMac
So the Native Americans had it right? Would that be the native Americans who in the name of their gods tore the beating hearts out of thousands of their captives? Sorry, it's always about power, subjugation, and I'm-better-than-you.
ReplyDeleteReligion:
ReplyDeleteDo unto others as you would have them do unto you.
UNLESS they look different, talk different or believe in a different god.
In THAT case; hate them, fear them, kill them. Show no mercy for they are evil.