The anti-gay Traditional Values Coalition (TVC) once again is turning to a highly valued traditional device to raise funds: fear and falsehoods.
The Christian Seniors Association (CSA), a front group of the TVC, recently sent out a fundraising letter claiming that the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act (HCPA) of 2009, which added sexual orientation to the classes protected by federal hate crime legislation, “makes the Bible illegal ‘Hate Literature.’” The letter further claims that “under this law, criticism of homosexuality is deemed discrimination — just like racism,” and ultimately, the intent of the law is to “outlaw Christianity.”
And the problem is that these mailers go to the group of people who are either very naive or desperately want to believe that it is true. They read this, accept it as fact without using any critical thinking whatsoever, and then rush out to vote based on lies and their own deep seated prejudices.
Using logic and facts with this demographic has virtually no effect.
Obviously I am a huge proponent of free speech, but when it is used to frighten the elderly, I could find my way clear to support placing some limitations on it.
F#@K 'em all. Can't fix stupid.
ReplyDeleteI pity anyone who is brainwashed by any organized religion. These people become an easy target simply because they are not taught to think for themselves.
ReplyDeleteJust what limitations would you put on this speech and how would you define what abominable speech is permissible, and what abominable speech isn't permissible, and how to you draw the line between permissible and impermissible speech?
ReplyDeleteLucy
"I could find my way clear to support placing some limitations on it."
ReplyDeleteReally, just because you don't like what someone writes. As a blogger that sentence above should be offensive to you and you wrote it!
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor
ReplyDelete...this is a Christian group?
Randoplh:
ReplyDeleteReal Christians don't harbor so much hate like these clowns do. They are the Devil's Advocates.
Instead of preaching of the coming of God's Kingdom, they spread hate.
I'd like anyone of them to show me where in the Bible Jesus says to spew lies, and hatred on behalf of him.
God said that vengence would be His. These people have so little faith in their god, that they feel the need to do his work for him.
I wonder if some savvy lawyers could use the fundraising and distribution through the mails against this organization. Seems to me like fraud would apply because they are lying to solicit funds through interstate mailings.
ReplyDeleteSurely there are some lawyers (or the government if complaints are registered) that would go after this.
I hope some of the seniors or their families lodge complaints with their state Attorney Generals and the Postmasters regarding this fraudulent mailing.
BTW, 3:28, it's not a matter of not liking what someone is saying.
ReplyDeleteIt is a matter of soliciting funds fraudulently. The organization is deliberately and knowingly lying to get vulnerable people to send money to them. Using false premises to solicit funds may enough to shut them down.
I'd love to see a class-action lawsuit against these hucksters.
People need to lodge complaints with their Postmasters.
ReplyDeleteThere are existing regulations that might cover this kind of activity, given that their copy is false.
And this is why it is so important that public education, where critical thinking skills can still be taught, continue to be funded fully!
ReplyDeleteYou can fix stupid, if you catch it early enough.
They are just some fucked up ,bible banging, red-neck ,hate mongering, nutbags.
ReplyDeleteObviously I am a huge proponent of free speech, but when it is used to frighten the elderly, I could find my way clear to support placing some limitations on it.
ReplyDeleteTake out the words "frighten the elderly" and insert your choice of:
defame the Chancellor
weaken the Reich
promote international Zionism
tear down Sarah Palin
and you can see the frightening danger of the slippery slope you advocate. Sorry my friend, free speech means free speech even if you think it is wrong, bigoted, stupid or immoral. Given the fact that you eat daily at the free speech trough, you should be wary of advocating any content based limitations.
Shameful.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I have relatives that just love the "christians are being persecuted" message. That way they can claim to be victims while saying hateful things about other groups.
Truth in advertising much?
ReplyDeleteThese people claim to be Godly people whatever that is these days.
ReplyDeleteAnd lie and deceive people that are gullible and followers.
I use to believe in something, but to be truly honest through the years My belief has fizzled and am so sick and tired of the God thing.
Sorry to anyone that has a belief. I respect your belief, but I have experienced first hand how people use God for their own ways.
These people are disgusting human beings preying on the weak and selling damnation if you do not believe what they say.
Her F U kooks!!!!! That's my first amendment right you freaks.
here ya go: watch her live-streamed!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2668850/posts
8 pm PST.
And check out some of the posts; they are frightening...same demographic Gryphen is describing here.
My 91 year old mother-in-law has an ear speaker for her radio, under her pillow, so she can listen to Rush, Glenn, etc even as she sleeps! This woman is valiant; was an Army nurse in WWII. She is SO afraid; and as she is aging, and frankly dying at this point, it has all just poisoned her soul. sigh.
Aurora
Thank you, 3:19 and 3:28.
ReplyDeleteGryphen, there are limits already in place. Free Speech is one of the touchstones of our country, as is our right to disagree with what another entity is proposing.
You need to think about what you choose to rant about. You are very wrong here.
Why do you think the ACLU has taken up Fred Phelps' case? Constitutionally, he has the right. We may not like it, but if you start impinging on one right, the rest will suffer.
What is the difference between your wanting to limit the rights of those with which you disagree, and the rights of those who disagree with you?
This is up to the AG and PO. If i tryed this i would be in a 6+10.
ReplyDeleteAh shucks Gryph, people are ganging up on you for saying "there should be a law against this".
ReplyDeleteI say let stupids lie in their bed of stupidness and it's not up to American laws to protect them!
And yes, to the contrarians posting against what you had to say, Darwin takes care of everyone. Whether you are for him or against him, Darwin will take care of you.
It is a pretty weak argument if you have to create paranoia to hold the water.
ReplyDeleteThese people need to be stopped. I don't think that compromising free speech is the answer, but separating church and state, private beliefs from the public sphere, does not negate Christianity or the Bible. Unless, of course, you think a theocracy is the only legitimate form of government.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure they really want to go where they think they are going. The Old Testament contains much law that we would not want to live with. Frankly, I think it is time to begin to publicly dissect the Old Testament and denounce it as not coming from God and being at opposition to the teachings of Jesus.
The more important question is to understand how the rise of fundamentalism occurs in society. Surely we can see that these people differ from the Taliban NOT AT ALL.
Amazing. This is clearly a flim-flam game being run, but people excuse it on the basis of "free speech?!?"
ReplyDeleteIn that case, anon posters, please forward me your addresses and bank account numbers, so I can fight to make the Bible LEGAL again!
Palin gave an idiotic speech in honor of Ronald Reagan at the Reagan Amway Ranch where she was invited to speak. Should be on the tubes soon, it was everything that we would expect of her for a paid speech to Amway people, complete with photo ops only when people give up all their belongings before taking a photo with the quitter from Wasilla.
ReplyDeleteIt's nice that she actually got this close to a real Reagan event. It must make her little heart proud!
As a currently thinking, reading, breathing old person I have to tell you I've never heard of these organizations. They're probably local or regional crazy people. Don't waste your time or ours with this dreck. Get to the real issue, a raging, nationally visible demagogue whose very presence threatens our government.
ReplyDelete6:49 "And yes, to the contrarians posting against what you had to say, Darwin takes care of everyone. Whether you are for him or against him, Darwin will take care of you."
ReplyDeleteFree speech is only free if one can say what others do not like. For a blogger to post that there should be a law to limit something they do not like is putting us on a slippery slope to censorship. Who determines then was is acceptable to the public?
Reading other comment on this topic, I do wonder if people really understand the concept of free speech in America.
I will leave with you all with a quote:
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is afraid of its people.
- John Fitzgerald Kennedy
Hey Duf, maybe we get to hot with our rhetoric and none of us really are speaking out against the first amendment and JFK's really great talking points. Just as people take up arms against the enemy, sometimes people use heated words and arguments with words to get out our frustration. I appreciate your well crafted counter argument; not everyone "pauses" before we type.
ReplyDeleteYou know there are already limits on free speech.
ReplyDeleteYou yell "bomb" on an airplane you are getting your ass hauled off.
You make false promises while advertising your product you get fined.
You yell "Fire" in a crowded movie theater you might get put in jail for the night.
So I think if you send these mailers filled with hate speech and lies to old people there should be a consequence. That is all I am saying.
I'm an agnostic and I behave way more Christian-like than these spokespersons from the Traditional Values Coalition or the Christian Seniors Association.
ReplyDeleteYou'd think they'd actually learn from the Bible teachings but I guess they're just too busy being hateful. I have love in my heart. These "Christians" should try love.
JESUS CHRIST FAILED THESE PEOPLE and they are looking for someone who can save them NOW. They do not look for the good they can perform now, they look for an excuse.
ReplyDeleteBut what can I say? I am posting here, preaching to a choir. We know this.
How moral can these fuckwads be if they START their arguments with easily disproved lies? Only ignoramuses or those who have conceded they know their point is untenable BEGIN the argument with bullshit. They clearly don't believe their own argument.
ReplyDeleteI feel the majority of americans aren't stupid and will look at this crap just as it is. Crap!
ReplyDeleteLibel, slander and defamation have never been protected under free speech. Neither has yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theater.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, racism. which this fraudulent solicitation seems to suggest as being analogously outlawed, is alive and well - just look at almost any newspaper, from local to national. Yes, the posters usually get called out for it, but free speech doesn't only protect one's own.
People like this continue to give christianity a bad name. Sort of like the far right Muslims give all Muslims a bad name. Wonder what would happen if we rounded up a hundred each and put them into an auditorium and locked the doors for a couple of hours? Maybe we'd have a little less hate in the world
ReplyDeleteFor Free Speech to have value in any society it must be responsible in nature.
ReplyDeleteFor those who believe Free Speech means anyone can say whatever they want, wherever and whenever they want; does that include falsely yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre?.
Traditional Values Coalition and The Christian Seniors Association (CSA) have it right. The way the Bible is used, it should be considered illegal ‘Hate Literature'.
ReplyDeleteI currently work with a Medicaid-waivered program that helps the elderly and the disabled by giving them some assistance in the home. It is set up to help keep them out of nursing homes.
ReplyDeleteWhen the health care bill passed, I had many that were sure that it meant that meant that 'Death Panels' were being put in place. What was worse, many of their relatives believed it also. They were being told by Sarah Palin and Fox News that this was happening. The media/information bubble that a lot of the people here surround themselves with would not allow any real information in. When I would try to tell them that there were no such thing as 'Death Panels', they either wouldn't believe me or actually get angry with me for 'lying' to them.
One lady confided to me that she was going to commit suicide before the government could come and get her.
Another one said that she would get her gun and "Blow them to hell!" I had to call the EMTs for her because she was having a lot of shortness of breath. She was laying in a hospital bed in her living room. When they came to get her, they found she had a loaded shotgun under her blanket with the safety off.
Damn scary! I wish Sarah and the others at Fox News who spread these lies, were forced to see the consequences.
I know they only think of stoking fears as political capital for them. But I wonder if they realize that the fear that they are instilling is very real for many of these people. And that people will react strongly to those fears, especially if they believe that their lives are in danger.
Yes, I do believe that there should be some laws in place with regard to lying to incite fear.
So tired of the "we the people" line they use. As if they own the country and everyone who likes Obama is the enemy.
ReplyDelete