Friday, April 01, 2011
Muslims attack and kill 7 UN staff members in Afghanistan in response to burning of the Quran by "Christians" in US.
From Reuters:
Afghans protesting against the burning of a Koran by an obscure U.S. pastor over-ran a United Nations compound on Friday and killed at least seven international staff in the deadliest ever attack on the UN in Afghanistan.
Thousands of demonstrators flooded into the streets after Friday prayers and headed for the UN mission in usually peaceful Mazar-i-Sharif, a city slated as safe enough to be in the vanguard of a crucial security transition.
The governor of Balkh province said insurgents had used the march as cover to attack the compound, in a battle that raged for several hours and raises serious questions about plans to make the city a pilot for security transfer to national forces.
Christian preacher Terry Jones, who after international condemnation last year canceled a plan to burn copies of the Koran, supervised the burning of the book in front of a crowd of about 50 people at a church in Florida on March 20, according to his website.
He told the British Broadcasting Corporation that he did not feel guilty over the deaths in Mazar. "We are not responsible for their actions," Jones said, when asked about the attack.
No, Terry Jones is wrong. He is ABSOLUTELY responsible for the deaths of those United Nations personnel. In order to know that all you have to ask is, would they still be alive if he had not orchestrated a burning of the Quran?
Look what the Afghan Muslim's did is reprehensible, and indefensible. However so are the actions of Jones and his ilk, who did this for the sole purpose of revealing the savagery of a religion that they are competing against. Though they might have achieved their short term goals by infuriating the Afghans into committing murder, what does it say about them, and THEIR religion, that they knew full well that this might be the outcome of their actions, and did it anyway? How does instigating violence and murder, make you that much better than those who committed the violence and murders?
Killing in the name of religion may seem abhorrent to most Americans, but if they were to really read their own Bible they would quickly learn that it is just as brutal and filled with violent images as the Quran. Perhaps even more so.
If the laws of the Christian Bible were to actually be implemented here in America we would find ourselves living in a far more repressive environment than the one currently found in many Islamic countries.
Imagine living in a country that upheld these laws:
Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9)
Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community. (Leviticus 24:14-16)
If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)
If you find out a city worships a different god, destroy the city and kill all of it's inhabitants... even the animals. (Deuteronomy 13:12-15)
Both books were written by primitive people, drowning in superstitious nonsense, who wrote the books specifically to describe the tenets of their faith and in what manner to punish anybody who dared to question the absolute authority of their religion.
What makes America a more sane and hospitable place to live than many other locations in the world, is NOT because the majority of the people are practicing Christians, but rather because we base our rule of law on the ever evolving needs of the people that it serves.
The reason that Afghanistan does not yet enjoy the same progressive atmosphere that we do in the US is because they cannot yet see past their superstitions, and oppressive religious beliefs, to recognize a calmer and more modern point of view.
Instead of demonstrating how respectful Christians can be of other religious beliefs, Terry Jones and Wayne Saap have simply shown the Islamic people of the world that THEIR religion is just as intolerant and hate-filled as the ones they have spent countless Sunday mornings preaching against from their respective pulpits. Here was an opportunity to demonstrate the love and respect inherent in their religion, and they chose to demonstrate the exact opposite instead.
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The Koran burners, the Bible burners, the Jeremy Morlock-types murdering innocent Afghans, the Afghans murdering innocent Americans....they're all wrong.
ReplyDeleteWonder if there is a law?
ReplyDeleteAfter all if a Muslim religious leader in this country had publicly burned a Bible I bet he would have landed in jail for reckless endangerment of some such.
Of course there is nothing to keep the families of the dead and wounded UN employees from suing these morons.
We are rather beyond "American Embarrassment" now, aren't we? Luckily, these fundamentalists of all ilks believe in Hell. Let's all pray for theirs to be especially "lovely."
ReplyDeleteDisgraceful. A terrible disservice has been done to both Jesus and Mohammed.
ReplyDelete"If the laws of the Christian Bible were to actually be implemented here in America we would find ourselves living in a far more repressive environment than the one currently found in many Islamic countries."
ReplyDeleteIf the current crop of Christian Taliban who have been elected to government office here in teh US have their way - this will not be a theoretical exercise.
They're already at it:
child labor and absolutist parental rights - including no requirement to educate and permission of beating
stripping women of healthcare rights and autonomy over their bodies, both abortion services, lowcost medical care and birth control.
criminalization of consensual adult sex, hetero- and homosexual acts.
denial of human rights - including food, shelter and heat, even to children.
Wake up America!! Rock the Dem vote in 2012. Start now!
I'm kind of thinking the appropriate punishment for a wimp like Terry Jones, who hides in America, and provokes Muslims only from his "safe" state of Florida is a ticket for a repeat performance - say in downtown Kabul?
ReplyDeleteHey, isn't this a political act? Sure hope Terry is ready to pay his taxes.
ReplyDeleteextremist views, extremist results. seriously, we need to get rid of all the hate. that should reduce some of the awful fear from all over the world. much better to try to live together in harmony, so much better for all of us. i keep praying for this to happen.
ReplyDeleteLike God gives a shit about material things.
ReplyDeleteHow would he have felt if the Afghans had burned and/or defaced THE BIBLE???
ReplyDeleteThis is just the beginning. It will get worse from now on.
So right-wing evangelicals think it's a good idea to insult and inflame a world population of 1.6 billion Muslims? Guess they were so busy rewriting their own scriptures they didn't have time to learn basic math.
ReplyDeleteGryphen,
ReplyDeleteYou are probably one of the more open bloggers so I will post this here where I have been unable to do so at ther sites---thyanks ahead of time :)
The bible and the Koran share many chapters, by the christian or so-called christian ( I will giove the rst of you the benefit of the doubt) Terry Jones burned severl chapters of the bible.
I do not condone in anyway the murdersd, but I think it's about time someone pointed out that ALL these middle eastern cults, Muslim, Jedaism, and christianity have much in common and sdhare many chaptersd in their holy books. It is very dismaying to a person who tries to be open minded , but when like religions attack each other--I do think I accept a realization of why the white men attacked native peoples. The majority ( The majority--I didn't say all) seem to hate all not like them.
The Muslims who did the killing made their own decision. In fact I would go so far as to say they were just looking for an excuse. The people they killed weren't even Americans. I don't believe Terry Jones or his church should take the heat for what another group decided to do. And really, I think equating burning a book, holy to some though it may be, to outright murder is ridiculous. Terry Jones and his followers are idiots, no doubt about that. But they did not murder anyone. What they did was stupid and very disrespectful to Muslims. However, any non-fanatical Muslim would certainly not condone murdering innocent people in retaliation.
ReplyDeleteJust like you know in your gut that the so-called tea party crowd is aching under their skin to shout out that Obama is just a dumb nigger, you also know they're loving this provocation too.
ReplyDeleteTerry Jones, you can take off the "Christian" costume now, you sick fuck.
Don't forget my favorite.
ReplyDeleteWearing a garment of mixed threads. No more cotton polyester!
Terry Jones should beg for Sharia law. That way all he has to do is pay enough money to the families of those 7 UN workers and he'll get off of murder charges.
And yes, he is absolutely morally and spiritually responsible for their deaths.
Those aren't "Christian Laws." They are from the ancient Mosaic Law written long before Christ. Jesus said he fulfilled that law, and he stressed that there were really only two commandments: to love God, and to love your neighbor as yourself. Sweet and simple, literally. (Jesus stayed out of people's bedroom behavior altogether, as well as a lot of other areas he considered unimportant.) Jesus would also be considered a socialist by fundie Xtians, because he counseled people to take care of the poor, the sick, and so on. "Sell all you have and give to the poor," he said, among other liberal statements.
ReplyDeleteFundamentalists smear Christianity by picking out parts of the Mosaic Law to condemn people they don't like (while ignoring troublesome restrictions that might make their own lives difficult.) That obviously includes bashing anyone who doesn't buy into their particular brand of fanatical hatred, and we all have to pay the price for their evil.
Terrible tragedy, a result of the misunderstanding caused by people who show the destructive extremes of distorted religious belief.
Not shocked Muslims did this. Do you think Christians would kill 7 people if the Bible was burned? No! In fact, Christianity and Jesus are mocked in the U.S. incessantly by comedians every single day. But you don't see Christians killing people over it.
ReplyDeleteThe pastor who burned the Koran is scum. But Muslims in the Middle East are so backwards and still living in the dark ages. They are centuries behind the developed world in their thinking.
It's why the world should ignore them and have nothing to do with this people.
Jones was a struggling nincompoop who couldn't even fill his own church! He started acting out to attract attention... and more warm butts in the pews when the collection plate was passed.
ReplyDeleteAll he wants is attention.
Think about that extremely furry snake he has crawling around his face.
People are being slaughtered so that his name is bounced around the TV stations, and his image is on the glossy magazines.
The only way to get rid of people like Jones is to take away their pulpit and their microphone and totally ignore them until it is time to wipe the spittle from their mouths and haul them into a sanitarium.
Giving them publicity just creates more publicity hounds.
Why did they attack the UN, is that as close they could come to hurting US citizens? and they angrily kill and behead UN workers?
ReplyDeleteThe video I watched had one of the Afghans yelling death to America. They are angry!
I agree with you Gryphen, these countries have not really had a chance to evolve and accept differences. But in this day and age will they ever?
Knock it off with the insults to two of the world's major religions, Gryphen. Calling any of us simply superstitious is so incredibly disrespectful. You honestly do not miss an opportunity to get your digs in, do you? Sorry you think we are all idiots.
ReplyDeleteThese heinous acts, as well as the blatant provocation shown by those morons burning Korans, do not represent ANYTHING other than evil, hatred and ignorance. They certainly don't represent the religious traditions of the supposed adherents.
Don't make the mistake of being as narrow-minded as some others. Decry the behavior of the individuals involved, but don't universalize it and condemn everyone.
Pointless to even say this, it never does any good whatsoever here. Truly disappointing.
Mosaic law or whatever, the bible consists of the old and new testament, and Christian organizations pick and choose between the two, often blending to suit their needs.
ReplyDeleteGryphen,I disagree.The bible burning did not infuriate the Muslim citizens of Afghanistan and cause them to commit murder.What it did was allow the extremists already present and looking for an excuse the perfect cover and reason to do what they already wanted to do.The majority of Muslims did not do this,just the ones waiting for this excuse since last year when the original burning was planned.The other thing accomplished by this disgusting excuse for a Pastor was to create more future extremists who will be goaded into carrying out more heinous acts in the future.
ReplyDeleteHere's my take on this. Let's say a small Muslim sect burned the Bible in protest of our involvement in Afghanistan. Then some good old boys went down to the local Mosque and tied seven Muslims to the back of their pickup trucks and drug them for miles down a dirt road until their heads popped off in retaliation for that Bible burning. I would be VERY comfortable saying that both the small sect and the small group of good old boys weren't a fair representation of either most Muslims or most Christians. But it would be a lie to say that those particular Muslims didn't incite those particular Christians.
ReplyDeleteIf the Christians of America really believed the faith they espouse, they would treat all Muslims with the utmost love and respect, and shower them with gifts, so that they would be irresistibly drawn to the Christian faith. Just think, every Muslim that gets killed by us goes to hell, according to them. They don't act like they're serious about saving people from hell. They act like they'd just as soon send them there sooner than later.
ReplyDeleteThese so called "Christians" here in the US are so twisted that its unforgivable for what they did. The need to be arrested for their actions that led to the death of the UN personnel. But, yeah, if we try to arrest them they'll yell, "Religious Freedom1" These unchristian Christians don't want anyone else in the US to have religious freedom if they don't believe the way these twisted nutcases believe. I'm so disgusted with organized religion in the US and these fanatics that are trying to take over the government and force their religious beliefs on us by law. I don't see this any different than religious persecution and its reaching the lives of people around the world getting innocent people killed. These nut jobs are CHRISTIAN TERRORISTS! We need to vote the republicans out of office because they are just another form of the Taliban!
ReplyDeletepretty easy to see that the radical right ( in this context i refuse to use the term religious ) mouth breathin' fundies are any different than their talibanesque cohorts
ReplyDeleteOf course, the other problem with Afghanistan is that WE helped prop up the religious crazies and put them in power in order to undermine the secular government allied with the USSR. You know, back when Reagan was calling the Taliban "freedom fighters".
ReplyDeleteTerry Jones and his ilk hide behind the safe "skirts" of America's freedom of speech laws to spew their bigotry and hate. In America, that speech is tolerated (relatively speaking), but there are consequences to that speech when spread via technology to other countries which don't have our liberal free speech laws. We saw those consequences in Afghanistan with innocent UN heads literally rolling after beheadings.
ReplyDeleteTerry Jones has blood on his hands, even if he's not primarily responsible for these murders. Jones and his hateful flock should be shipped to Afghanistan where they can experience first-hand the consequences of free speech outside of America.
I hope these murderers get turned over to justice and are punished appropriately. That said, people like Terry Jones give Christianity a bad name by showing that they are every bit as intolerant as the folks they condemn. This puts me in mind about how Gates said last year that the anti-Muslim rhetoric of Palin and others was jeopardizing American military personnel in Muslim countries. Of course, a yokel like Terry Jones probably uses this as an example that he thinks only reinforces his ideas about Islam without acknowledging his own role in this.
ReplyDeleteHe is a disgrace to Christianity and to Americans.
Joe H @ 7:50 PM
ReplyDeleteYou must not have ever read a history text. If you had, you would know that if it were not for these "backwards" people, the writings of Aristotle (which form the basis of Christianity) would never have survived the ages. Moreover, that modern medicine owes a debt if profound gratitude to the likes of Avicenna whose Cannon of Medicine remained the standard by which all medical texts were set for over five centuries.
I could go on...
"Backwards people," indeed sir. Take your head out of your ass. If there is anything that is "backwards" it is tortured perspectives such as yours.
First time commenter. As an American born and raised Muslim, I'm disappointed by some of the comments you made in your post Gryphen. The situation is abominable on both sides - but definitely more so on the part of the Afghans who killed people. Most of the articles say that what was a peaceful protest turned into a minority of haters seizing weapons from guards and storming the compound. Then the deaths occurred. The people killed were innocents. May they rest in peace. There's a verse of the Qur'aan that says that the unjust slaying of one soul is like slaying the whole of mankind.
ReplyDeleteAnd while I don't like to get into debates about religion/non-religion and viewpoints - to you yours, and to me mine (as the Qur'aan says) - I feel I owe my two cents in supplying certain clarifications. We don't believe that the Qur'aan is written by humans. The words are God's, sent down via Gabriel to the Prophet (peace be upon him). We believe the same of the Bible and the Torah, except holding that these books were later changed and ultimately corrupted by man. That said, we still honor those books and especially those Messengers (Jesus and Moses) and their followers and hold them in very, very high regard (see "People of the Book").
As for the burning of the Qur'an, any educated Muslim (and by this, I mean any truly well-versed in Islaam) should realize that Muslims actually burn old Qur'aans as the purest way to dispose of them, since throwing them away would be far more disrespectful. I get what Pastor Jones and his crowd are doing is to show their hatred of the religion, but seriously, God can take care of them better than I can, so no need to be all freaking out. It's just sad, and I honestly feel bad and pretty terrified for people like him - what comes around goes around, amirite?
And as for the comments here under the post - I find it disingenuous to hear how "backwards" the ENTIRE Middle East is/Muslim countries are in general. You'll find more females in legal positions (judge, justice, etc.) in Iran than you will in the U.S.. You'll find more females heads of state in Muslim countries (Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc.) than you'll find here (glass ceiling broken and LONG forgotten). The Muslim world - after the rise of Islaam - advanced scientific and mathematic discovery like no other modern period of history.
Yes, there's a lot of hypocritical backwardness in many Muslim-majority countries today. But I assure you, that's not coming from Islaam, just as today's so-called American "Christian" right isn't exactly the most Jesus-like in its behavior towards, say, the poor and hungry. The Muslim community overseas today suffers from a host problems, but I assure you these aren't caused by Islaam - they're caused by Muslims who twist verses/history for their own personal gain, and use them on an illiterate, uneducated, jobless public to amass power and wealth. Sound familiar to the strategies some American politicians use?
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
ReplyDeleteMahatma Gandhi
Who the hell BURNS a religious book?
ReplyDeleteThis is just of their hateful attempts to attack a faith they don't understand and only hate due to media hype of extremists who use their NUTCASE TWISTED evil wrapped in a religion.
What is wrong with the US? A bunch of crazy people, including a number of candidates, faux and otherwise, for President, are whipping up such a frenzy of hatred, fear and loathing of Muslims. Then you have the State crazies making up stuff about Sharia law coming to a town near you. And what gives with burning religious symbols? Christians, American ones in particular, really get their crazy rocks off burning stuff - Korans, crosses --- what's up with that.
ReplyDeleteWhat Terry Jones did is protected under our Constitution: Freedom of Speech. He had every right to burn the Koran.
ReplyDeleteAnd as long as human beings embrace primitive superstitions there will be tragedy as consequences.
Don't you kind of wish there were somewhere we could send these deluded people to fight it out? "Religionland" or something?
If you believe in Allah or Jehovah or YahWeh or YahooWahoo or whatEVER you call your invisible sky-wizard there should be a place where you can go and fight the other whackos without danger of collateral damage to the rest of us: the sane ones.
Anyway... all that aside...
Jones had every right to burn a book. Its not illegal to provoke a response. Sometimes the RESPONSE is illegal...
(An oppropriate response would have been to burn some Bibles.)
But that's one of the problems with mass delusion: it inspires inappropriate responses. Often deadly ones.
Religion aside, Jones will ultimately reap the rewards of the seeds of hate that he has sown.
ReplyDeleteBy his acts he has effectively changed his life forever. No longer will he be able to sit on his front porch in the evening, playing his banjo, picking his nose and farting.
It is his right to fuck up his life and I fully support him in his goal to exercise that right. I also support the right of whatever or whomever comes around to mete out his reward, to do so in full measure. I will not lift a finger to stop them.
In his ignorance he has chosen to ignore the fact that every action has a reaction; such is karma.
None of us have any control of the timing of such reaction, whatever it may be. That is why we still have to endure the presence of Terry Jones and all the others like him.
When that time comes, responsible people will deal with it. Terry Jones and his ignorant minions will be mere footnotes in history, and hopefully gone forever.
Welcome, welcome, welcome, @11:13!!!! Your comments are enlightening, and urgently needed.
ReplyDeleteThank you for calling Gryphen and others out on this black and white thinking. They tend to direct it at the far right Christians in this country most of the time (and as a Christian, I can understand their frustration, but still).
You probably realize there are a lot of anti-religion folks who read and comment here. There is absolutely no arguing with them because it's game over before discussion can go further.
Thank you, though, for suggesting that ignorant stereotyping is neither accurate nor productive.
As you say, just because there are some on earth who would twist the tenets of their faith to justify evil acts, does not mean all people of faith - or their religions - are to be derided and dismissed.
What happened is a tragedy. No one should be exploiting it, even if it is simply in an attempt to strengthen a viewpoint. An uninformed viewpoint, at that.
What we need in this world is to understand one another better. So much of what happens is because we demonize what we don't know. And contrary to the contentions held by many around here, there is much more good done in the name of religion and belief in God, than bad.
Btw, I am related by marriage to Iranians. Good, good people, whether devout Muslims or ardent secularists!
Btw, Gryphen, your Bible quotes are from the Old Testament. As a matter of fact, they are from the Torah.
ReplyDeleteThis is not a small matter. Angry, vengeful God passages are common in the Old Testament. While there is strong language in the New Testament, one of Christ's seminal teachings exhorted us to turn the other cheek. This was radical and revolutionary.
To this day, it is difficult to live one's life without giving in to the urge for revenge when we feel we have been wronged.
Why don't you attend a theology class so you can get a better sense of the nuanced differences between the world's major religions? That would be a good start for you if you are going to insist on going on about these topics in the way that you do.
To Anonymous at 6:44, you rightly talk about the New Testament message of love and forgiveness. Unfortunately, this Terry Jones does not hold with that message. Nor do supposed Xtians who murder abortion doctors and bomb abortion clinics, Xtians who blow up federal buildings, Xtians who lie about their purpose when posting "Problem Pregnancy" signs, etc., etc. Your message would be put to better use in talking to the extremist Xtians and the current crop of Xtian politicians.
ReplyDeleteThank you to Anon at 11:13. A very reasoned response and it's good for us to have insight from your perspective.
Anon @6:44
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that the politicized Xtians, the ones who want to make US law jibe with the Bible, the ones who are taking over the school boards and city councils by stealth, the Dominionists, ARE the Old Testament/Leviticus Xtians. My sister (who I go on and on about since she recently became "born again") claims to believe all of the Bible word-for-word now, disbelieves evolution now, etc. And her God IS the psycho God of the OT; that's what her fundie church is all about. The Rapture! God's glorious and righteous punishment! I don't know if the discussion was here or at Politicalgates, but she ABSOLUTELY is convinced now that her child's disability is caused by SIN! SIN! SIN! Her own sin, and her husband's sin, and the sin of both our families! Sin all the way!!! And the fact that her kid is messed up is God's just punishment for SIN!!
When I point out to her all the murderous things God does in the OT, forcing people to worship him out of FEAR, she says "damn straight! That's God's prerogative!".
YOU may get a message of love from that book, but I guarantee that love and tolerance are not what the Dominionists and the Teabaggers are about. Self-righteousness and anger and vengeance is what they are about. They eat that "Christian Warrior" stuff up with a spoon!
This is not some backwater; this is suburban CT, and my sister has a college degree from an "elite" university.
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That said, the murderous rage that those Afghan zealots were able to whip up did not come solely from religious fervor… those people are sick to death of Western occupation, and of course it takes just a small spark to light the powderkeg of resentment.
Terry Jones is just trying to one up Marc Grizzard, who burns any bible that isn't the King James, in his opinion the ONLY bible.
ReplyDeleteYou know, if Terry's little bonfire sparks retaliation against U.S. troops and puts them in added danger, there may be a way to make Terry legally responsible. He was warned by no other than General Petraeus.
At the very least, these hate ministers that practice politics need their tax exempt status revoked.
P.S. to Anon@6:44
ReplyDeleteIf you doubt me, why don't you examine the Bible citations used by these freaks, and the orientations they truly express?
Gov. Sanford, after hiking the Appalachian Trail, compared himself to King David.
Sarah Palin invites comparisons to Queen Esther.
Huckabee starts his day off reading a chapter of Proverbs, it has been said.
And I guess I have to list the tired and tiresome examples of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, with their conceptions of New Orleans and Manhattan as our modern-day Sodom & Gommorah, inviting God's murderous wrath.
These people are not into the "modern, revolutionary" God as Jesus, the one who tells people to beat their swords into ploughshares or sell everything you have to give to the poor… Are you crazy?? That would mean being virtuous and humble!
Maybe YOU should investigate what is really going on in the US under the flag of Christianity:
"Dr. James Luther Adams, my ethics professor at Harvard Divinity School, told his students that when we were his age—he was then close to 80—we would all be fighting the “Christian fascists.
...
Two decades later, even in the face of the growing reach of the Christian right, his prediction seems apocalyptic. And yet the powerbrokers in the Christian right have moved from the fringes of society to the floor of the House of Representatives and the Senate. Forty-five senators and 186 members of the House before the last elections earned approval ratings of 80 to100 percent from the three most influential Christian right advocacy groups—the Christian Coalition, Eagle Forum, and Family Resource Council. President Bush has handed hundreds of millions of dollars in federal aid to these groups and dismantled federal programs in science, reproductive rights and AIDS research to pay homage to the pseudo-science and quackery of the Christian right. ”
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20070128_christianists_on_the_march/
@ 8:42 and @Lidia17, please don't lecture me about who I should be talking to. There is a mistaken notion that it is up to the sane members of a religion to make the extremist elements "behave". I don't know what to do about these people any more than any of you do.
ReplyDeleteI am comfortable with the teachings of my faith, and I fully recognize when those who profess to be practitioners are in fact behaving against the tenets of our religion.
Thank you.
"Both books were written by primitive people, drowning in superstitious nonsense, who wrote the books specifically to describe the tenets of their faith and in what manner to punish anybody who dared to question the absolute authority of their religion."
ReplyDeleteIf you read or study the history of religion, from the beginning of it eons ago, it shows itself as an authoritarian male-driven agenda to control people based on what their existence was at the time. Early religion was easily one of the most organized efforts to promote control and dominance over others, to rationalize war, strife, and hatred all in the name of God, and to torture, deliberately murder millions, plunder land and cities that did not share the same beliefs, and these heinous evil acts all justified--again, in the name of God. The treatment of women as property, as breeders and lesser beings to be controlled by males, along with the shameful hatred and contempt for homosexuality--much of this is still seen in the extremist religious views and attitudes that are reflected today. It's no wonder that the extremists who are hell-bent on trying to force a theocracy in this country are nicknamed "talibangelicals". This "so-called" pastor Jones could not be a better, more shining example of religious hatred.
Each religion, of course, argues that ONLY THEIR religion (e.g., be it muslim or xtian) is the ONLY correct religion that most closely aligns with what God wants. What is so ironic, is that instead of love and peace, there is so much hate and war, and the very thing religion was supposed to do--a belief to save man could very well be the catalyst that ends up causing the demise of civilization as we know it.
"but she ABSOLUTELY is convinced now that her child's disability is caused by SIN! SIN! SIN! Her own sin, and her husband's sin, and the sin of both our families! "
ReplyDeletePerhaps she ought to read the passage in which someone asked Jesus if a certain person was born blind due to their own sin or the sin of his parents, and Jesus said neither.
With all due respect 'G' the 'correct' spelling is Quran. It's been westernized....
ReplyDeleteFunny...the very thing 'they' are against...is how they approach&attack others who do not follow their belief.
These ppl are not true followers of Jesus (he's mentioned in the Quran MORE than Muhammad). Jesus did not offer himself up to be worshipped, that's Paul's doing.
A few years back I gave-up on organized religion & focused on my own spirituality...working out great
It is true that Pastor Jones has the right to burn a Koran according to our laws, but it was done as a blatant provocation of utmost disrespect toward all Muslims. Muslims which have OUR country as occupiers and controllers and bomb droppers while they are rather helpless to stop us.
ReplyDeleteIt was completely predictable that a disrespected, frustrated and grieving people would retaliate.
Love, respect and generosity is the right and Christian attitude toward the Muslims and all people.
Mr Jones better not be a part of any Mansonic Order, as they are required to have a Quran.
ReplyDeleteMany of the founding fathers had personal copies too! Franklin, for example read it often.
Any 'real' follower of Islam would not kill in return for the burning...they would ask Allah's favor on those who (they think) harmed them. these men who killed, are teaching 'His'lam' and not Islam. Kinda like Jones who's personalization of religion allowed him to go outside of
what Christianity teaches.
By the way Allah means Al= The & lah= God, as Muslims,
admit that man does not know the name of God, who rules
all the worlds.
violence seems 2B attached to all Religions teachings. Is God really about violence?
Why does man assume to know the thinking of God...when really it's their own selfish thinking which allows them comfort with their actions.
I am a practicing Christian living in a major metropolitan area of the US and I can tell you that I do not, in fact, believe that my religion is the one true faith. It is simply my faith. I respect those of other faith traditions and I respect the right of every human being to come to their own conclusions about a belief in God or a view that does not include such a belief. I find far more intolerance and judgement coming from those who make assumptions that I do expect everyone to believe as I do, however. The anger and resentment is misplaced often times, I assure you.
ReplyDeleteDo not judge a religion based on the behavior of the obnoxious (and sometimes deadly) few.
The stuff about paternalism, etc, in religion only goes so far these days. Men and women share in faith and practice, all around the world, and many of us don't have these kinds of issues with our religious organizations. History is history, now is now. We are evolving, to be sure, and have a ways to go. If you are talking about the most conservative branches of any of the major religions, perhaps the sexism argument holds water, but again they don't represent everyone.
Excuse me, Anon@ 6:44/9:18…
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you attend a theology class so you can get a better sense of the nuanced differences between the world's major religions? That would be a good start for you if you are going to insist on going on about these topics in the way that you do.
Who’s lecturing whom?!??
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onething, that's very helpful. I'll point that out to her when I have the chance.
The larger point remains that This Is Not What is Being Sold, Nor What Passes for Christianity in Christianist®™ Amerikkka. The American Acid Test for Christian Purity lies with the fundies and the OT ranters, not with the Philip Berrigans and Martin Luther Kings.
So do those who follow a less-toxic path have a responsibility to reign in the crazies?? Hell, yes. In fact, I would like to know whether any of you have spent as much time "correcting" your co-religionists as you spend "correcting" us infidels as to their degree of crazy. I already know their degree of crazy.
A shame that so many so are mired in their books of mythology that they resort to HATE instead of the message of love so prominent in said books of mythology.
ReplyDeleteOrganized religion is what will eventually bring this world down. I see so much more caring and real love of thy neighbor from those professing no religious affiliation than I do from those who will only help those who go to THEIR house of mythology.
"my·thol·o·gy (m-thl-j)
n. pl. my·thol·o·gies
1.
a. A body or collection of myths belonging to a people and addressing their origin, history, deities, ancestors, and heroes.
b. A body of myths associated with an event, individual, or institution: "A new mythology, essential to the . . . American funeral rite, has grown up" (Jessica Mitford).
2. The field of scholarship dealing with the systematic collection and study of myths."