Saturday, April 02, 2011

Quran burning minister pretends to feel shock that his actions resulted in deaths at the hands of Islamic extremists.

From the Daily Beast:

Now Terry Jones is shedding crocodile tears, saying he is "devastated" by the violence, but it was entirely predictable. At the time of the book-burning, he also played sober and solemn, saying: “It is not that we burn the Koran with some type of vindictive motive… We do not even burn it with great pleasure or any pleasure at all. We burn it because we feel a deep obligation to stay with the court system of America. The court system of America does not allow convicted criminals to go free. And that is why we feel obligated to do this.”

This bit of self-delusion deserves extra scrutiny because it captures a strain of extremism we’ve been increasingly seeing: radical action as a reluctant obligation, an expression of fidelity to deeper principles. The fact that Jones is invoking the courts—when his show-trial stunt took place in a near-empty church and the "convicted criminal" is a book—is one sign of the psychosis at work. Bad craziness takes great pains to present itself as misunderstood patriotism these days. Playing the victim card will not be far behind.

But it is a sign of our times that the reverberations of Terry Jones’ brand of crazy can reach across the world and translate to real violence. It is a reason why extremists’ statements cannot be simply ignored in the hopes that they will go away on their own accord.

The fact that Jones’ greatest enablers in terms of getting his message out included the Taliban is also illuminating—extremists encourage each other, they fuel the cycle of incitement and serve as powerful recruiting tools. Islamist radicals want their followers to believe that Jones’ actions are indicative of all Americans, and the Terry Joneses of the world see the murders as evidence of Islam’s inherent violence—hate, ignorance and intolerance begets more of the same. Good people of all faiths and nationalities can get caught in the crossfire between the extremes.

Terry Jones and the Taliban, two extremists sides of the same superstitious coin.

I don't know who is more pathetic.  Jones for expecting us to believe he really had no idea how this might turn out, or the Muslims who jumped through the hoop that he held up for them half a world away.

For those who have been upset with my criticisms of religion, my question in this case is how could I not?

Jones is a member of an Apostolic church that believes war in the Middle East is absolutely necessary to usher in the second coming of Christ, which ALL people of his faith desperately wish to happen during their lifetimes.  On the other hand the Muslim extremists believe that the burning of their holy book proves that Christians are conducting a holy war against them and feel they are justified in taking lives in response.

Both of these very extreme positions are, the protagonists feel, supported by the teachings of their religious faith.  So how can any rational person looking at it from the outside NOT conclude that the fault lies with religion in general, and religious fundamentalism specifically?

Let's face it if religion were taken out of the equation, Terry Jones would have been unable to agitate these Afghans, nor would he have felt compelled to do so.

If I am missing some larger point, please educate me.

56 comments:

  1. no more bs3:02 PM

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/reese.asp

    Let's vote the fuckers out. all together now, to end corruption: good night obama, good night biden, good night boehner, good night pelosi, good night clinton, good night all you morons in DC who supported HCR, who supported the Dream Act, who used backroom, underhanded tactics to elect the first black president who has done nothing he should have.

    Throw em all out

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  2. Anonymous3:05 PM

    I would cheer if someone would be so kind as to put the ignorant bastard out of his misery.

    They would be doing the rest of the world a huge favor.

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  3. Anonymous3:16 PM

    It's time for all religions that call for some apocalyptic final destruction as a step towards heavenly bliss, salvation, or judgement to sit down and shut up.

    The world is dangerous enough as it is.

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  4. Irishgirl3:17 PM

    Your constitution sucks. There is always a let out clause for the idiots.

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  5. Anonymous3:21 PM

    Why the fuck does the media give sad, sick individuals like this a megaphone?

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  6. honeybabe3:36 PM

    so of course he feels compelled to try to start the final apocalyptic war. are the extreme christians jumping for joy for the thought of the carnage that is supposed to come? pretty pathetic.

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  7. Anonymous3:39 PM

    F U C K H I M ! ! !

    I hope he rots in hell (isn't that "God's standard" for the less-than-compassionate"?)

    F U C K H I M ! ! !

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  8. Anonymous3:41 PM

    The court system?
    What?
    Give this man a straight jacket and a rubber room.

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  9. Anonymous3:43 PM

    religion is the Opiate for the masses.

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  10. Anonymous3:43 PM

    Jones doesn't give a rat's ass whether we or anyone believes his sorry lies or not any more than old Sarah Peebot does when she cries "victim".

    Last time loser Jones pulled his shit he got lots of publicity, loads of donations and some fool even gave him a new car.

    As long as our own WAR CRIMINALS from the last dictatorship wannabees go free and unpunished and our supreme court jesters bestow personhood on thieving corporations and FAUX NEWS continues to collect, glorify and promote every squalling, snarling misfit and psycho they can find as NEWSPERSONS spewing hate and misinformation as news for the repuglican party the nutsies will continue to crawl out from under their rocks and deep dark hiding places to seek fame and fortune, oblivious to the trouble and grief they cause.

    Look who is making headlines, selling books and making gobs of money.... not people who have worked hard and been decent, law abiding citizens all their lives.... NO, SHIT SELLS, ASSHOLES GET ON EVERY TALK SHOW TO PROMOTE THEIR NASTY CONFESSIONS AND BOOKS AND CONSEQUENTLY INSPIRE EVERY OTHER WINNABLE ASSHOLE TO DO THE SAME ONLY BIGGER AND BETTER.

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  11. Anonymous3:44 PM

    babygate question: this is purely for hypothetical reasons, as I do not believe Trig is Bristol's nor that she was pregnant before Tripp.

    If we're saying Bristol was pregnant previous to Tripp's conception, and she was being hid away, how were they going to explain the baby? That is a very real question. If Bristol suddenly appeared holding a child after being hidden, that would seem deceptive. THere are only 2 months of missing Bristol - nov and dec in 07. There are numerous contradictory stories told about what occurred. It appears that Sarah and Bristol's relationship was rather close (NY trip). Something that gets overlooked is the huge fight that could have been: between Lanesia's friends and Bristol (discussion on myspace was from the fall 07) That is a very good reason to leave school, if people threaten you. To me, Bristol did not appear pregnant in OCt 07 nor in pics from a football game during the same time. She even appeared smaller in the official Gov photos than in June 07. She and Levi had not been dating the entire first half of 07. There is also evidence they were not dating at the start of 08.

    Conclusion: who the fuck cares? Trig is part of a happy, blessed family who loves and nurtures him. THAT is all that matters. Again, political blogging should constructively criticize candidate's politices, not their personal lives. You don't hear America picking apart every mean look Michelle gives. Stooping to personal attacks is just mean and makes you a bully.

    In the end, America will vote for whom they think can best help them thrive. Rumors and slanderous accusations don't matter.

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  12. Anonymous3:45 PM

    Just a point of view Gryphen - I am a "born again evangelitical Christian" (Capital C). I have been since I was 9 years old. The problem with so many of these "christians" (lower case c)is they do not follow the teachings of Christ in their daily lives nor in their dealings with their fellow man. I'm not saying I live my life every day in the way that Christ would want me to, but I do try to view other people and their situations in the manner in which I think Christ would. Too many "christians" are walking around wearing the WWJD (what would Jesus do)jewelry, but they are not asking themselves that question. And yes, the teachings of Christ do say that there will be war in the middle east before His return. BUT, humans cannot dictate when that will be. They can try all they want to initiate the end world happenings, the only thing is, they have forgotten one very important factor. These things will happen in GOD's timing, not theirs. All their actions will do is cause more unnecessary havoc - it will not in any way expedite the return of Christ. My heart breaks when I see and hear those who so profoundly claim to be doing what God's will is for their life, when in reality they don't have a clue because they are in tune with Him nor His son Jesus Christ, so they can't possibly be hearing the voice of God. My prayers are with them and all the uninformed people who follow them. I appreciate all your efforts to bring some justice to not only that poor, pitiful person from Wasilla, but for others to be able to be what they are and what they were created to be. Hang in there and hopefully someday all your efforts will be rewarded. Blessings to you.

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  13. deebee3:45 PM

    The question is Mr Selfrighteous: Would 7 people still be alive today had you not performed your christaliban stunt?

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  14. Anonymous3:51 PM

    I couldn't agree more with you, Gryphen. Jones is megalomaniacal exhibitionist who simply uses Christianity (which certainly provides him with plenty of destructive scope!) to feed his desperate need for attention.

    He proudly lit the fuse on a stick of dynamite and now he's feigning surprise that it did what dynamite is designed to do, it blew up.

    I don't think this sorry excuse of a man has any human feelings, since he's obviously a sociopath and he never takes responsibility for his actions since he has fooled himself that God works directly through him.

    So I hope the ghosts of those murdered as a direct result of his actions haunt him mercilessly.

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  15. angela4:00 PM

    I'd like to call this man a religious asshole, but what little I do remember about real christianity- there isn't a damn thing truly christian about him.

    So fuck him.

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  16. Anonymous4:10 PM

    Gryphen, you are NOT missing some larger point. Religious extremists are bad news all the way around the globe.

    This guy is a sick twist, about as far away as anyone can be from God or Godliness.

    He was "called out" once before earlier for this same stunt that he was going to pull last September 11th, Gen. Petraeus issued a statement regarding the effects this could have on the safety of soldiers and civilians. After that warning, he now lies and says he had no idea this would happen (the murders)when he was earlier warned about the very possibility of something like this.

    What a horror of a man--he belongs at the table with the rest of the "talibangelical" fundamental extremist terrorists.

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  17. When Mr. Jones threatened this stunt last summer, it was explained to him in great detail by some federal employee what would happen if he burned the Quran. Now we get crocodile tears? RIGHT!

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  18. Anonymous4:28 PM

    OK - Gryphen - ALL people of his faith? Do you mean of his particular sect, or church? Or do you mean all Christians?

    'Cause I can tell you that MOST of us do not have this belief about ushering in the End Times (for us it is metaphorical, not literal, and has to do with individual inner transformation) - and we consider ourselves 100% authentic Christians.

    Is this the misapprehension under which you have been operating, and the reason for your ignorant statements?

    I'll say it again - educate yourself on theology, on the various forms of religions, Christianity in particular - if you insist on pontificating about the subject.

    You seem to be unwilling to refrain from lumping us all together.

    Or maybe you meant all extremists?

    If so, write more clearly, please. Your words are frequently subject to misunderstanding.

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  19. Anonymous4:30 PM

    Fundamentalism is fundamentalism. It is not moderate practice. It is extreme, literal, I-am-right-and-you-are-wrong, practice.

    You are basically part of the problem here, Gryphen, not the solution.

    You have issues with religion - WE GET IT.

    I am starting to think you just like the attention.

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  20. Anonymous4:45 PM

    this kind of batshit crazy makes me believe in sensorship... along with limp paw, shammity, and pawlin...

    sorry but CRAZIES should be banned from public airwaves...

    if the likes of them never saw the light of day on the air, the flames of the absolute illiterate might not ignite...

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  21. I thought I made it clear, that when I identified Terry Jones faith I meant Apostolic, not simply Christian.

    However I have to admit I do have issues with religion in that it convinces people to relax their intellect and accept many things on faith alone.

    Religion is the conduit through which mad men, charlatans, and dictators have reached directly into the hearts of the people whose confidence they wish to gain. Once the faithful are convinced a lunatic is a man of God much damage can be occur before their rational mind allows the scales to fall from their eyes.

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  22. Anonymous4:50 PM

    no more bs said. @ 3_02...

    lets vote the likes of YOU out...

    lets throw ALL or the likes of YOU OUT....

    wiping hands..

    GET, just GET the EFF OUT!

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  23. Nikogriego5:17 PM

    @ 3:44

    "Conclusion: who the fuck cares? Trig is part of a happy, blessed family who loves and nurtures him. THAT is all that matters. Again, political blogging should constructively criticize candidate's politices, not their personal lives. You don't hear America picking apart every mean look Michelle gives. Stooping to personal attacks is just mean and makes you a bully."

    This must be a joke, right? And why was this posted in response to the article about religious extremism? And stating that the Palins are a "happy, blessed family" who "loves and nurtures" Trig is about as accurate as stating that Jones follows the Christian religious tenets. And last I checked, Michelle Obama's every move is scrutinized and criticized by every conservative talking head around.

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  24. Anonymous5:23 PM

    My problem with religion is that it seems the less intelligent ones become the evangical christians. When you try to explain something to them, anything, they don't seem to grasp it as quick as others. It's my views that they rely on religion as a means to understand the world they live in. That is why people like Sarah and Michelle Bachmann sound so ignorant. Michelle went to Oral Roberts University and also got her law degree their which doesn't say a whole lot to me. BTW, the law school was only their for about 5 years and they had to close it. Sarah attended 5 different schools over 6 years which, doesn't speak well for her either. Just listening to them gives away their intelligence. So you have this idiot who obviously is not too intelligent and should be arrested for insiting a riot and manslaughter. One last thing, the media didn't give him any attention until after the riot in Afganistan. It was only filmed by one of his 30 or less followers.

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  25. I think the people who are defending Christianity here have NO IDEA of what it is like to be a "non-Christian" in this country today.

    I have tried on a few variations of religion, but have been so uncomfortable with the messages I am hearing I move forward just simply believing in God at this time.

    However, I am shunned by a number of people in my community because they know I am not a "true" Christian. It's not a good feeling. I think what I believe is more in line of "who Christ really is," but they are incredibly self-righteous and it is very intimidating. I rarely speak out about it, out of fear of reprisals I can't predict.

    Those who say they are "good" Christians have never experienced this and as far as I am concerned, need to walk in the shoes of someone who has been oppressed before they should be telling you, Gryphen, or anyone else who is categorizing Christians views as intolerant, that your views are "ignorant."

    It's a little game..."Of course we love you, but you'll only be saved if you aren't you. If you just change what you believe to think the way we do, you'll be saved..."

    Everyone has the right to believe whatever the hell they want and their actions toward their fellow man determine their character. God will make the decision (as my experience has led me to believe) about the hereafter, and it's no one else's business.

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  26. eclecticsandra5:49 PM

    I volunteer once a week to deliver Meals on Wheels. Many of the other drivers are Christians and have invited me to their churches. I have made it clear that I am not doing this for religious reasons but because I am concerned about the nutrition for the elderly. This doesn't resonate with them. They deliver because it is part of their religion.

    Maybe some people have to follow a religion rather than determine a moral code.

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  27. Just my two cents, Gryphen.

    Apostolics scare me because are intellectually lazy. They instill a superficial group-think mentality in their followers that prohibits any real understanding. Great thinkers from the "book" religions--St. Augustine, Maimonides, Thomas Aquinas, Rumi, up through G. K. Chesterton, Rabbi Harold Kushner, etc--have exercised their intellects and shared their thoughts on paper with the rest of us.

    It would be sweeping with a broad brush to clump the real scholars and philosophers of the great faiths together with delusional wingnuts like Terry Jones. Fundamentalist end-times prophecy is cobbled together from bits and pieces lifted from various books of the Bible. It's too shallow to stand up to scrutiny, so a lazy mind is a requirement among those groups.

    There's no shortage of lunatics who have corrupted faith for evil purposes, but if they didn't have religion as an excuse, they would seize on another reason to cause mayhem. That's human nature, and the blame lies squarely on the individuals, and not with any divine principle.

    Ironically, Jones and the Islamic extremists are pointing fingers at one another now and saying essentially the same thing, "See, I knew they would do that because their religion is evil."

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  28. Anonymous6:03 PM

    why do we need any "god"?

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  29. Anonymous6:17 PM

    I wonder how Rep. Gatto feels about Terry Jones and how this 'anti-sharia' mentality is working out? Does he support Terry Jones, does he think we should continue to demonize other cultures and religions? Rep Gatto, I'd like to hear your opinions on this matter, as you have strayed into this conversation.

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  30. Anonymous6:20 PM

    The basis of the Christian religion is that Christian people believe they will be blissfully happy in heaven knowing others are in agony in hell. That's a pretty monstrous belief.
    -Fred

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  31. Anonymous6:21 PM

    Someone needs to issue a fatwah on this F-ers ass.

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  32. Anonymous6:49 PM

    One of the best posts I've read about Jones yet. You've made great arguments and supported your point well. Bravo, Gryphen!

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  33. Olivia6:58 PM

    Fucking Asshole! I would love for someone to take him on a mini vacation to Afghanistan, Iraq or some other vacation spot and let everyone there know his celebrity status. He needs to be the one suffering for this.

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  34. Anonymous7:10 PM

    This guy also wants the US to retaliate for the killings that have happened in response to his Koran burning. The media actually DID NOT cover this story when it happened about 10 days ago. I think they were trying not to give him attention but it ended up becoming an issue anyway.

    Unrelated to this story but related to one of the comments, a theory is that Trig was going to be adopted but that fell through when his Down's Syndrome was discovered.

    I had a chance to glance at the NE story today. I think it mostly says that Sarah is nervous that the upcoming books might reveal a lovechild of Todd's and then there was a story at the bottom of the page that seemed to say something about Bristol having someone sign a confidentiality agreement but I didn't have enough time to get the whole story.

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  35. I say "fuck him" also. Omg too many nutcases are being glorified. Sarah Palin would ignite international Nathan winkin', tongue flicking in clothes that don't fit, sigh, deluded she is savior of the world.

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  36. Anonymous7:19 PM

    Lets hope the survivors and the families of the dead get a good America lawyer and sue the crap out of this "church."

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  37. Anonymous7:22 PM

    no more bs said...
    3:02 PM

    Why would you want to thrown out the first "white" president to actually be fairly elected in the 21C?

    Obama is white you know.
    He is genetically half white. And since I am racist I claim that the white half is the dominant half. So he is just a white man who is not melanin challenged.

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  38. Anonymous7:23 PM

    Let me also say that moderate Christians, and I am speaking of mainstream progressive Protestant churches because that's what I know best, do not have a literal belief in some concept of hell. Nor do we think we will be looking down at all y'all non-believers burning in its fires when the end of the world comes!

    We tend to interpret hell as a symbol of an inner state, in this life or even in whatever state or "place" is afterward. Mostly we see hell as of our own making, whether individually or collectively, here on earth in this lifetime.

    There is so much misunderstanding, and such a readiness to paint all of us as these nutjob fanatics, like this complete and total loser who everyone is interviewing for all the wrong, and terribly tragic, reasons.

    I think some people's contact with religious folks is limited to the smaller town, provincial, highly conservative versions of the various religions... Don't mean to sound like a snob, I just think if people explored some of the city-area churches they might discover a different type of faith practice.

    Btw, would any of you judge all Jews by their Orthodox or other fundamentalist representatives? I sure wouldn't. I am related to Jews, I know Jewish people who are some of the most liberal souls on this planet - and I would never in a million years throw them in the same category as the people who are relentlessly building settlements in Israel because "all the Arabs hate them".

    On a side note, being intellectual and being faithful are not mutually exclusive.

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  39. Well done, Gryphen!

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  40. laprofesora7:30 PM

    May he suffer every day for the rest of his life and then may he rot in hell.

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  41. benlomond28:14 PM

    Let's just give him a plane ticket and a tour bus to Mecca...He can try burning the Koran there, instead of in the safety of his churchyard....bet he thinks about repercussions THEN !!

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  42. Anonymous8:18 PM

    Wikipedia has some interesting info on this nutcase.

    He graduated from a school in Missouri, and was a classmate of Rush Limbaugh's. Go figure.

    He has no divinity degree from any accredited school.

    His group has in the past done joint protests with the infamous Westboro Baptist Church nutcases on gay issues.

    Before he became Pastor of Dove World Outreach, he had a church in Germany too, but was ousted and the church was closed because it was noted that he was running the church like a sect, and everything had to be about him. He was always seeking the limelight.

    BTW, the Florida church, -- Dove World Outreach -- is in no way connected with the Dove Outreach church in Ohio; the Ohio church appears to be legitimate.

    Afghan officials are demanding that the US government take steps to punish Jones for his actions which have caused great harm to their people.

    IMHO, he's also done a great deal of harm to our own country's relations with the people of other countries because of this. He was warned a year ago what his actions could cause.

    Jones truly has a dark and evil soul.

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  43. Anonymous9:42 PM

    Throughout history, many wars have been fought in the name of religion. The Christians didn't like it when the Romans were in power, and they were the ones being fed to the lions. In return, they held an Inquisition to torture and kill people who didn't believe the way that THEY believed. Both sides haven't forgotten the Crusades, and it was a poor choice of language when George W. Bush framed his wars in the Middle East as Crusades, invoking the image again. In recent history, Catholics and Protestants killed each other in Ireland over religion. We don't need to single out the Muslim fanatics as the only ones who kill in the name of religion. They are in very good company. Killing in the name of God is still killing, and it is a violation of the Ten Commandments. The Pastor is not the court system; he is responsible for those death.

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  44. Anonymous9:52 PM

    @anon 3:44 Since you went OT and wrote about Babygate, here is the simple answer. Like many other teens, Bristol had unprotected sex and had a baby. Many of those girls disappear for the last couple of months of their pregnancy, and then return home after a long visit with an aunt or a case of mono. The baby is usually adopted by a loving family, either privately or through an agency, depending on where the girl went and how her pregnancy was handled. Today, she can even have her expenses covered and arrange a private adoption over the internet. In other cases, her mother adopted the child or claimed the child as her own. The singer, Bobby Darin, found out when he was an adult that his mother was really his grandmother and his sister had given birth to him. There are many examples of this kind of thing.

    The only fly in the ointment is that when Trig was born, he had Down syndrome, and was not adoptable. Sarah told Levi that she wanted to adopt the baby that he and Bristol had, and she would claim it as her own. That story works for Trig, and cannot possible work for Tripp. There is no way that a woman running for Vice President could adopt a baby while running for office and be in the public eye every day. But, the story does fit someone hoping to be nominated to be VP. Claiming Trig as her own is Sarah's Right to Life Credentials. She loves to tell the story, and each time she tells it, it gets a little bit different. It's not hard to remember the truth. Sarah has described Trig as being born in Anchorage at 7 1/2 months and at MatSu at 8 months. Most mothers actually do remember exactly when and where their kids are born.

    In the end, it doesn't matter. Sarah has been saying so many stupid things, that people don't care about Trig. Even Republicans are now saying that Sarah should have finished her term as governor, then learned some history, political science and economics. They know that she is not a good candidate. Trig doesn't matter any more. No wonder we haven't seen him lately.

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  45. Anonymous11:22 PM

    F*ck Terry Jones and the horse he rode in on.

    Ditto for all the other fundamentalist religious nuts of ANY religion.

    Religion is the great canker of the human race.

    My opinions originate from having grown up in a fundamental Christian home. You don't know it fully until you have been smothered by it as a child. Toxic, punitive garbage. Period.

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  46. "being intellectual and being faithful are not mutually exclusive" Yes, they are, because "faith" means saying "I am not going to question what's inside the black box, or behind the curtain; I'll just say that I know what's there, along with everyone else."

    ---
    I don't know about why people need a god, but I do ask myself why a god would need pastors, priests and prophets when in theory each one of us could be reached directly, should a god want to do so. I mean, it's not like we have unlisted numbers.

    And if there is a "God" and "He" speaks to people, the fact that he tends to speak to Jerry Falwell and George Bush and Sarah Palin instead of to any of the normal, nice people I know) kinda makes me not wanna hang out with Him.

    ---
    "Maybe some people have to follow a religion rather than determine a moral code."
    Eclecticsandra, EXACTLY! My sister really believes that religion is the only thing that is going to prevent someone from lying, cheating, stealing and so forth. She can't understand WHY an atheist would be faithful to a spouse, because no-one is "making" them, or shaming them into fidelity, I guess. Because really underneath we're all just champing at the bit to run out and rape and pillage, and cheat our loved ones, or whatever… (The funny thing is, she calls ME a nihilist! when her opinion of humans is obv. far more negative than mine, low though that may be.)

    So, paradoxically, I think that's why the real wackos DO end up in religions… because the religion gives them, if not just an excuse, or a cover (as often happens), then at least an explanation, for their inherently anti-social tendencies.

    The "milder" forms (like the one where the commenter describes Heaven and Hell as not being real places, but states of mind) are sort of just a defensive move to paper over their religions' worst aspect: that there have to be winners and losers.

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  47. Anonymous3:38 AM

    Someone here described this human filth as 'Christaliban'. I like that a lot as I routinely call all christian fanatics "the Christian Taliban".

    As for all the bible thumpers in general...how are you following the teachings in a book that was originally written by the equivalent of 3d world, barely educated, superstitious, ignorant cult members 2,000 years ago?

    Worse, that same book has been re-written numerous times, whole areas of it have been completely stricken, new crap added; by the whim of whatever rulers were in power over the centuries.

    The most accepted 'christian' version is the King James Bible.

    Well, duh. Because King James decided he did not like the bible as written, so he had it re-written to HIS specification.

    Of course he removed lots of goodies, like numerous references to condoned incest and the like...

    How modern day man could accept this crapfest of ignorance, advocation of violence and superstition as some kind of 'holy word' is beyond me.

    How many multi-millions of believers out there are Christian, not Catholic simply because King Henry VIII decided to obliterate the Catholic religion in England during his reign?

    And he did that ONLY because he wanted to be able to divorce his Queen and marry a new honey which mneant ex-communication as a Catholic.

    Voila...the Church of England is born and countless descendants of once Catholic ancestors are now Christian, but not Catholic.

    How many have had their sincerest faith and belief system, the very tenets of their religion determined centuries back by some king who merely wanted to be able to get a divorce?

    Ridiculous!

    The Koran probably has more claim to validity than the so called 'Christian bible'.

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  48. Anonymous4:08 AM

    I think that if more people would study the world and its history, fewer would believe in the not-of-this-world.

    If you want to label me, call me a realistic atheist with her feet on the ground. I value lifelong education far more than some pie-in-the-sky mythical "kingdom" (that should ring a bell) which, if you examine it very, very closely, is nothing more than an authoritarian godhead.

    Do we really want to adopt the fears and customs of ancient history when people mistook thunder, lightning, and all other mysterious facts of nature as god-like?

    The founder of the 3 major religions of today, Abraham, would be institutionalized if he walked around in modern society and called delusional.

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  49. Anonymous6:07 AM

    Well said, Gryphen!

    O/T: The latest National Enquirer (April 11, 2011) story on the Palin's on pages 40 & 41:

    1. "Sarah Palin's worst nightmare about a LOVE CHILD" (of Todd). "She's terrifed allegations could ruin her chance for the White House." This phrase is repeated about ten different ways in the article. Upcoming books by Dunn and McGinnis are implied to have this information.

    2. "Bristol Palin's latest relationship (with Gino) crashed and burned over allegations that she cheated with an ex-boyfriend."

    3. "Now, her mom Sarah - is so concerned about what family secrets Bristol might have shared with her beau of five months (Gino Paoletti) she is demanding he sign a confidentiality agreement."

    The little article about Bristol is more in-depth about fighting between her and Gino.

    Stay klassy, Palins.

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  50. Since when he part of the judiciary system?
    He is not a legal judge, there was not a legal jury.

    If the bible were held to the same standards, the bible should be burned.
    It too has violence it too, has caused millions of deaths.
    And for all you who question this, think Crusades and think the Inquisition. Millions of people died because of the bible and religion.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Anonymous6:47 AM

    Hey, "No more BS" at 3:02 PM"
    You are nothing but a racist troll.

    Get the hell over to C4P and sign up to worship the queen of grifters

    ReplyDelete
  52. Nothing a good, ole simple Fatwa won't fix....

    ReplyDelete
  53. Anonymous10:13 AM

    If any of you would like a viewpoint of modern Christianity, read the book Love Wins by Rob Bell. Fundie pastors tell their congregations not to read Rob Bell (or Brian McLaren or a number of other modern Christian writers), so the people that need to hear this message the most are the least inclined to read it. Check out this trailer of Love Wins:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODUvw2McL8g

    ReplyDelete
  54. Randall10:54 AM

    Imagine there's no Heaven
    It's easy if you try
    No Hell below us
    Above us only sky
    Imagine all the people
    Living for today

    You may say I'm a dreamer
    But I'm not the only one
    Perhaps someday you'll join us
    And the world will be as one

    ---John Lennon

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  55. At least he's old enough that God could call him home at any minute.

    Hopefully sooner.

    And meet him at the gates to direct him to a much warmer climate for eternity.

    False prophet indeed.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Anonymous8:49 PM

    "There's no shortage of lunatics who have corrupted faith for evil purposes, but if they didn't have religion as an excuse, they would seize on another reason to cause mayhem. That's human nature, and the blame lies squarely on the individuals, and not with any divine principle."

    ^^ This.

    ReplyDelete

Don't feed the trolls!
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