Morality is not determined by the church you attend nor the faith you embrace. It is determined by the quality of your character and the positive impact you have on those you meet along your journey
Saturday, May 14, 2011
Are you a Christian? Did you cheer at the news of Bin Laden's death? Do you see a problem here?
Hey. This is random but relates to babygate in a small way. Willow got a speeding ticket and is now on courtview for the first time. Her birthday is listed as 7/5/94 which means Sarah told the truth in GR and CBJ's letter has one more weird lie in it.
No, I did NOT cheer at his death & I found it utterly barbaric that people did so--and on camera for the world to see. I am glad he was brought down, for the sake of the world & 9-11 victims. But I did not cheer. His relationship with the US (and the Bush family/ administrations) was long & complicated--with some complicity on the part of the US in the 20th century. And yes, I am a Christian, & an American.
I'm an agnostic but should good not trimuph over evil?
OBL was a terrorist scum so the fact that he won't be doing this anymore is certainly worth cheering.
Like Islamaphobe Maher, you're quite the hypocrite cheering whenever Caribou Barbie falls...and so am I for that matter...everyone is. Maher's an idiot for expecting everyone to live up to everything that any holy book says.
Next time you think of posting some gossip, you, Maher and all of us can think about these.
Leviticus 19:16 – “Do not go about spreading slander among your people. Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor’s life. I am the Lord.” (NIV)
Proverbs 11:13 – “A gossip betrays a confidence, but a trustworthy man keeps a secret.” (NIV)
Romans 1:29 – “They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips.” (NIV)
1 Timothy 5:13 – “Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to.” (NIV)
Matthew 7:1 – “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.” (NIV)
Proverbs 18:8 – “The words of gossip are like choice morsels; they go down to a man’s inmost parts.
I don't watch Bill Maher. He just strokes his self-righteous gland too much.
Do you not see any hypocrisy in everyone else in the world being allowed to be human except those people you've identified as "Christian?" Suddenly, those people have to behave according to a rigid stereotype or they're all hypocrites.
Word to the wise: we are all, each of us, hypocrites. Every day. We all excuse ourselves our own petty behaviors and snap judgments, our unkind thoughts, our laziness, our anger, our cruelties. We give ourselves a pass because we're justified to ourselves. We know ourselves. We're not really "like that", we're just human and humans are complex, and sometimes we fail.
But those other guys--nope. They can't be human. They're not complex. They're not entitled to the same leniency we give ourselves. Those people are hypocrites. But not us. No, never us.
I did not cheer. I was glad that no one was killed in the killing of him, and I understand the problem of bring him in alive, but I did not cheer. Was I glad he was dead, yes, because he could not hurt anybody else, but nope, did not cheer
"It is unusual to celebrate a death, but today Americans and decent people the world over cheer the news that madman, murderer and terrorist Osama bin Laden is dead."
Our hick-y fundamentalists see things their own way!
Well, you already have supposed "Christians" who follow the sociopathic insanity of Ayn Rand and consider the poor to be inferior parasites and Libertarian "Christians" who think letting people starve and suffer is some kind of social natural selection.
There are few "Christians" who actually have any clue at all what Jesus' message was, and I'd say nearly zero of them are in government.
But yeah, I was bringing that point up with someone months ago. Jesus says you must love your enemy. I don't think most "Christian" conservatives could bring themselves to love Obama, much less Osama.
They should dearly hope their belifs are false, or they're in for an eternity of regret...
Yes I am a Christian and no I did not cheer. I was actually disgusted by the gatherings in which it was obvious that young people, many of whom might have had more than one beer, chanted USA, USA. I guess I understood it, but I didn't like it. That kind of nationalism makes me nervous. Far more appropriate were spontaneous candlelight vigils remembering the fallen on 9/11.
(Btw, who knows what the religious affiliations have been, of those celebrating? I am sure Obama struggles with the disconnect between Christian teachings and the kinds of decisions he is forced into making as POTUS. In the case of OBL, I am sure he decided he was ridding the world of an evil, and he was right.)
I am also a realist, and I do feel it was probably a better choice, for our world, to simply kill OBL, rather than let him stand trial.
I am against the death penalty, that being said. So sue me for the contradiction.
Gryphen, Bill Maher is a jerk. Why do we care what he has to say about anything, honestly? He can have his non-belief or whatever his life code is - and I mean that sincerely - but who the hell is he to be sitting in judgement of everyone else?
And why must everything be put in these black and white terms when it comes to religion, with you? It is not a surprise that you have difficulty with religion, because believe it or not, it involves a lot of GREY.
5:47 - what are you thinking? Why would an atheist or any of us who do not believe in the Christian Bible pay attention to the verses you list?
My goodness, if you are an agnostic, who are speaking to about this? Certainly not yourself.
Gossip can actually be a healthy aspect of a community. Unfounded gossip or malicious gossip is not healthy. Sharing information is a form of bonding, a way of establishing and maintaining community mores.
Please distinguish between good and bad gossip when you start pontificating, and address your audience appropriately.
Most of us are not tied to Bible verses. They are interesting and often useful suggestions or observations or comments, but they are not necessarily the granite-inscribed word of God for many of us.
What Maher was saying was valid: people who use their Christianity as a badge of superiority should look closely to see if they are really being true followers of his philosophy. Simply saying you are a Christian is not enough; you have to understand and at least attempt to follow the basic percepts of the faith -- which do not include or allow killing of anyone for any reason at any time. It is man who makes those bargains, makes those judgments.
My goodness, Maher certainly seems to push some people's buttons, doesn't he?
I don't always agree with him or even like what he says, but this time he brought those proverbial chickens home to rest at at the feet of the uber-Christians who tout their faith and yet give support to violence, war and hate.
Yeah, we all may behave hypocritically at times, but the far-right war-hawks are truly hypocrites if they also tout their Christian creds to get votes.
I did not cheer, because the snuffing out of a human life is nothing to celebrate about. Just the same, I feel that justice was served because an evil, ruthless man met the kind of brutal end he meted out to others and was prepared to mete out to even more humans.
I did not cheer, just as I did not celebrate the torture at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo. I do not support the death penalty. I felt sick and did not watch the 'celebrations' at the news of Usama's violent death. It is not up to us to judge. He needed to be stopped, but he did not need to be killed. Now there are attacks in retaliation going on. Whoever set this world in motion is sad to see us fighting all the time.
What Maher was saying was valid: people who use their Christianity as a badge of superiority should look closely to see if they are really being true followers of his philosophy. Simply saying you are a Christian is not enough; you have to understand and at least attempt to follow the basic percepts of the faith -- which do not include or allow killing of anyone for any reason at any time. It is man who makes those bargains, makes those judgments.
EVERYONE, not just thos who claim to be Christian act that way.
Me, the agnostic again.
I Maher now the authority on how all religious affiliations act. I missed his global survey on how all xtians were cheering over OBL's death.
Did he have time to post the YouTube video of The Pope high fiving all the cardinals about it?
Maher makes his living off of self loathing and calling out Muslims and Christians.
When Bill Maher uses a subset of a huge population to paint them all the same way, he's being a fool.
And Maher wears his supposed superiority as well as any pontificating religious person.
I couldn't give a rats about the verses I posted but I believe the author of this blog does, unless I'm mistaken.
Maher's the type who would have chastised people for cheering the victory of WW2.
Hypocrites come in all stripes. And I do believe Maher is one.
As a christian, I agree with Bill. Somewhere along the line the gospel message has been highjacked by greedy, power-hungry, lusty, carnal, dysfunctional, unbridled, hypocrital usurpers, and turned the message of eternal life through Christ a mockery and a sham.
Neither did I rejoice when I heard about OBL's death. Neither could I understand how Cheney under the Bush administration, and the James Dobson, etc. republicans, conservative family values crowd can justify torture, the death penalty, all forms of revenge - and feel justified and sanctified.
How the churches of America have their tongues tied and say nothing about the savagery that politicians use to gain political points is disturbing. I'm talking about pols who grab a story of Navy Seals raid and exploit it to draw out criticisms solely for their politics against the President. He did what he had to do, under the circumstances. And we all enjoy the fruit, the freedom from the choices our leaders make. So we're all in this together. Christians are the first ones to find the US exceptional and enjoy the prosperity it brings.
It puts some of us in a bind cause we appreciate the brave men/women and the administration to have to put themselves in harm's way and bring to justice those who would still do harm. Christ knew that individuals lived in societies where the governing laws of practically every nation had to set up prisons, arrests and executions for those who refused to live law-abiding lives. If a demoratically-led nation chooses and votes for the death penalty, or have a military defensive strategy, we are all in a small way guilty of permitting it, since our tax dollars support it. So before the (arrogant) christians jam their self-righteous laws down most people's throats, they need to look at their slate and see if it's clean. Christ-centered believers would believe OBL should have been spared his life, been tried, imprisoned, and given time to rehash his life and ask for forgiveness of his past sins and commit his life in the hands of the Lord Jesus. But on the other hand, he may have had many chances to stop his madness and didn't, therefore asked for it. It requires a person who is willing to forgive and it's very hard thing to do, but, in other instances when families gather to watch a death row prisoner get executed, you have two groups, those who gloat and can't wait to see him die, and the other group who are crying for him and pray that God and he have made amends, that that he's in paradise this day.
Same as Jesus on the cross, the thief who asked him if he'd let him go with him to Paradise, and Jesus said this day he would be. Simple as that.
Glad I'm an atheist and don't have to hung up on such things. Yes, I cheered when I heard of bin Laden's death, just as I cried when I heard of the tragic events on 9/11.
Bill Maher is conflicted about Christianity because of his own religious/cultural background, period. Might not be pc to say it, but there it is. I don't care if he is simply an atheist for intellectual reasons, it's more than that.
How a man who admits to being friends with Ann Coulter can be taken even the slightest bit seriously is beyond me.
As for mainstream Christian churches not devoting energy to disavowing the far right - sorry if they are wasting their time trying to help the poor and fighting for progressive political causes! - that's bs.
How about mainstream Islam not particularly standing up and speaking out against the extremists in their faith? How about mainstream Jews not speaking out about the maniacs of their faith who think nothing of killing and ruining the lives of countless Arabs who have done nothing except having the misfortune to be born in the wrong place?
We can get all high and mighty about these groups not taking care of their dirty little problems, or we can just wake up every day and work on making this world a better place. Not real sure how Bill Maher figures into that, quite honestly. I think Bill Maher is all about Bill Maher.
He is not in a position to call out Christianity, I am sorry.
The poster above who has taken the trouble to discuss the moral and ethical problems when trying to reconcile Christ's teachings with the world's challenges, thank you.
This is deep stuff, not "hang ups", talking. One doesn't have to bother with it if one doesn't want, but these questions are there for any who wish to ponder them. Show some respect, people.
Maher has a point regarding the party atmosphere in the wake of bin Laden's death. One thing that I noticed, however, was that MOST (not all, but most) of those celebrating were young, in their late teens to 20's. In this demographic, bin Laden has been THE face of evil for all of their lives or at least during the time that they became aware of global events. To them bin Laden came to represent evil itself, while us older farts have seen plenty of characters come and go that were every bit as fetid as bin Laden. To the younger crowd it was almost as if we killed Satan or evil itself.
Maher is evangelically anti religion. He is as zealous in his attempt to discredit all organized religion as any of the bible thumping militantly evangelical KKKhristians. If he knew his history a bit better he'd realize that this position of a Christian, if not exactly celebrating death, but actively working to effect a single death is not unique.
German Christian theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who began WWII a committed pacifist, became actively involved in the plot to assassinate Hitler. He did not moralize that his position was sanctified, quite the contrary: he admitted that his position was indeed sinful and far short of Christ's model. However, he also acknowledged that he lived in an imperfect and sinful world and that killing Hitler was the option that ultimately led to the least number of deaths due to warfare. By killing Hitler, the war would have been shortened and lives would have been saved. Bonhoeffer viewed this action absolutely necessary, but also absolutely sinful.
His involvement in this plot led to his execution in a Nazi prison just prior to the end of the war. Bonhoeffer knew absolutely that his involvement would prove fatal if he were discovered, yet, knowing it to be against every precept of Christ, and knowing that it could very well cost him his life, he still chose to be part of the plot to kill Hitler.
So it was with bin Laden. I did not celebrate his death, but neither did I shed any tears. I was genuinely sorry that we had to kill him, but I also would have personally pulled the trigger without hesitation. Does anybody really doubt that if bin Laden were allowed to live to be a ripe old age that he would NOT have planned the deaths of more innocent men, women, and children? This single death has undoubtedly saved hundreds, possibly thousands of lives.
I am reminded of the words of Mark Twain:
"I did not attend his funeral, but I wrote a nice letter saying I approved of it."
Just tell me where I need to send my note of approval.
I don't see a problem. After all hundreds upon thousands have been massacred in the name of "christianity" since the first crusades in the 10th century.
I love Bill Maher's show and never miss it. I, too, deplore the supposed 'christians' we have in our midst....they reek of racism, are unAmerican and many should be deported to another country for treason. They lie, cheat and steal as no others on earth.
Osama bin Laden and the al Queda organization have sworn to do everything in their power to destroy the United States of America, and to kill as many Americans as possible. In essence, they declared war. They took credit for the Sept. 11, 2001 massacre of unarmed civilians. It was essential that the US government take action to prevent any more slaughter of our citizens. That's what the government is supposed to do. That's what the executive officer of our government ordered, and got it done. None of this has anything to do with anyone's belief in God. It's power that the al Queda want; and it's power that our president exercised for our benefit.
The Lord Jesus Christ does not resemble any of the bloodthirsty religionists who claim His name.
Hey. This is random but relates to babygate in a small way. Willow got a speeding ticket and is now on courtview for the first time. Her birthday is listed as 7/5/94 which means Sarah told the truth in GR and CBJ's letter has one more weird lie in it.
ReplyDeleteNo, I did NOT cheer at his death & I found it utterly barbaric that people did so--and on camera for the world to see. I am glad he was brought down, for the sake of the world & 9-11 victims. But I did not cheer. His relationship with the US (and the Bush family/ administrations) was long & complicated--with some complicity on the part of the US in the 20th century. And yes, I am a Christian, & an American.
ReplyDeleteI'm an agnostic but should good not trimuph over evil?
ReplyDeleteOBL was a terrorist scum so the fact that he won't be doing this anymore is certainly worth cheering.
Like Islamaphobe Maher, you're quite the hypocrite cheering whenever Caribou Barbie falls...and so am I for that matter...everyone is. Maher's an idiot for expecting everyone to live up to everything that any holy book says.
Next time you think of posting some gossip, you, Maher and all of us can think about these.
Leviticus 19:16 – “Do not go about spreading slander among your people. Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor’s life. I am the Lord.” (NIV)
Proverbs 11:13 – “A gossip betrays a confidence, but a trustworthy man keeps a secret.” (NIV)
Romans 1:29 – “They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips.” (NIV)
1 Timothy 5:13 – “Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to.” (NIV)
Matthew 7:1 – “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.” (NIV)
Proverbs 18:8 – “The words of gossip are like choice morsels; they go down to a man’s inmost parts.
OBL deserved a bullet. And he got one.
I don't watch Bill Maher. He just strokes his self-righteous gland too much.
ReplyDeleteDo you not see any hypocrisy in everyone else in the world being allowed to be human except those people you've identified as "Christian?" Suddenly, those people have to behave according to a rigid stereotype or they're all hypocrites.
Word to the wise: we are all, each of us, hypocrites. Every day. We all excuse ourselves our own petty behaviors and snap judgments, our unkind thoughts, our laziness, our anger, our cruelties. We give ourselves a pass because we're justified to ourselves. We know ourselves. We're not really "like that", we're just human and humans are complex, and sometimes we fail.
But those other guys--nope. They can't be human. They're not complex. They're not entitled to the same leniency we give ourselves. Those people are hypocrites. But not us. No, never us.
I did not cheer. I was glad that no one was killed in the killing of him, and I understand the problem of bring him in alive, but I did not cheer.
ReplyDeleteWas I glad he was dead, yes, because he could not hurt anybody else, but nope, did not cheer
This is my favorite Bill Maher clip ever!
ReplyDeleteSums up my attitude exactly.
Rev. Huckster welcomed Bin Laden to Hell.
ReplyDelete"It is unusual to celebrate a death, but today Americans and decent people the world over cheer the news that madman, murderer and terrorist Osama bin Laden is dead."
Our hick-y fundamentalists see things their own way!
His points are completely valid. The hypocrisy just drips and puddles at the feet of today's evangelicals.
ReplyDeleteWhy is there a "surveyor's symbol" over his face??
ReplyDeleteWell, you already have supposed "Christians" who follow the sociopathic insanity of Ayn Rand and consider the poor to be inferior parasites and Libertarian "Christians" who think letting people starve and suffer is some kind of social natural selection.
ReplyDeleteThere are few "Christians" who actually have any clue at all what Jesus' message was, and I'd say nearly zero of them are in government.
But yeah, I was bringing that point up with someone months ago. Jesus says you must love your enemy. I don't think most "Christian" conservatives could bring themselves to love Obama, much less Osama.
They should dearly hope their belifs are false, or they're in for an eternity of regret...
Yes I am a Christian and no I did not cheer. I was actually disgusted by the gatherings in which it was obvious that young people, many of whom might have had more than one beer, chanted USA, USA. I guess I understood it, but I didn't like it. That kind of nationalism makes me nervous. Far more appropriate were spontaneous candlelight vigils remembering the fallen on 9/11.
ReplyDelete(Btw, who knows what the religious affiliations have been, of those celebrating? I am sure Obama struggles with the disconnect between Christian teachings and the kinds of decisions he is forced into making as POTUS. In the case of OBL, I am sure he decided he was ridding the world of an evil, and he was right.)
I am also a realist, and I do feel it was probably a better choice, for our world, to simply kill OBL, rather than let him stand trial.
I am against the death penalty, that being said. So sue me for the contradiction.
Gryphen, Bill Maher is a jerk. Why do we care what he has to say about anything, honestly? He can have his non-belief or whatever his life code is - and I mean that sincerely - but who the hell is he to be sitting in judgement of everyone else?
And why must everything be put in these black and white terms when it comes to religion, with you? It is not a surprise that you have difficulty with religion, because believe it or not, it involves a lot of GREY.
5:47 - what are you thinking? Why would an atheist or any of us who do not believe in the Christian Bible pay attention to the verses you list?
ReplyDeleteMy goodness, if you are an agnostic, who are speaking to about this? Certainly not yourself.
Gossip can actually be a healthy aspect of a community. Unfounded gossip or malicious gossip is not healthy. Sharing information is a form of bonding, a way of establishing and maintaining community mores.
Please distinguish between good and bad gossip when you start pontificating, and address your audience appropriately.
Most of us are not tied to Bible verses. They are interesting and often useful suggestions or observations or comments, but they are not necessarily the granite-inscribed word of God for many of us.
What Maher was saying was valid: people who use their Christianity as a badge of superiority should look closely to see if they are really being true followers of his philosophy. Simply saying you are a Christian is not enough; you have to understand and at least attempt to follow the basic percepts of the faith -- which do not include or allow killing of anyone for any reason at any time. It is man who makes those bargains, makes those judgments.
My goodness, Maher certainly seems to push some people's buttons, doesn't he?
ReplyDeleteI don't always agree with him or even like what he says, but this time he brought those proverbial chickens home to rest at at the feet of the uber-Christians who tout their faith and yet give support to violence, war and hate.
Yeah, we all may behave hypocritically at times, but the far-right war-hawks are truly hypocrites if they also tout their Christian creds to get votes.
I did not cheer, because the snuffing out of a human life is nothing to celebrate about. Just the same, I feel that justice was served because an evil, ruthless man met the kind of brutal end he meted out to others and was prepared to mete out to even more humans.
ReplyDeleteI did not cheer, just as I did not celebrate the torture at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo. I do not support the death penalty. I felt sick and did not watch the 'celebrations' at the news of Usama's violent death. It is not up to us to judge. He needed to be stopped, but he did not need to be killed. Now there are attacks in retaliation going on. Whoever set this world in motion is sad to see us fighting all the time.
ReplyDelete@ 7:39
ReplyDeleteWhat Maher was saying was valid: people who use their Christianity as a badge of superiority should look closely to see if they are really being true followers of his philosophy. Simply saying you are a Christian is not enough; you have to understand and at least attempt to follow the basic percepts of the faith -- which do not include or allow killing of anyone for any reason at any time. It is man who makes those bargains, makes those judgments.
EVERYONE, not just thos who claim to be Christian act that way.
Me, the agnostic again.
I Maher now the authority on how all religious affiliations act. I missed his global survey on how all xtians were cheering over OBL's death.
Did he have time to post the YouTube video of The Pope high fiving all the cardinals about it?
Maher makes his living off of self loathing and calling out Muslims and Christians.
When Bill Maher uses a subset of a huge population to paint them all the same way, he's being a fool.
And Maher wears his supposed superiority as well as any pontificating religious person.
I couldn't give a rats about the verses I posted but I believe the author of this blog does, unless I'm mistaken.
Maher's the type who would have chastised people for cheering the victory of WW2.
Hypocrites come in all stripes. And I do believe Maher is one.
As a christian, I agree with Bill. Somewhere along the line the gospel message has been highjacked by greedy, power-hungry, lusty, carnal, dysfunctional, unbridled, hypocrital usurpers, and turned the message of eternal life through Christ a mockery and a sham.
ReplyDeleteNeither did I rejoice when I heard about OBL's death. Neither could I understand how Cheney under the Bush administration, and the James Dobson, etc. republicans, conservative family values crowd can justify torture, the death penalty, all forms of revenge - and feel justified and sanctified.
How the churches of America have their tongues tied and say nothing about the savagery that politicians use to gain political points is disturbing. I'm talking about pols who grab a story of Navy Seals raid and exploit it to draw out criticisms solely for their politics against the President. He did what he had to do, under the circumstances. And we all enjoy the fruit, the freedom from the choices our leaders make. So we're all in this together. Christians are the first ones to find the US exceptional and enjoy the prosperity it brings.
It puts some of us in a bind cause we appreciate the brave men/women and the administration to have to put themselves in harm's way and bring to justice those who would still do harm. Christ knew that individuals lived in societies where the governing laws of practically every nation had to set up prisons, arrests and executions for those who refused to live law-abiding lives. If a demoratically-led nation chooses and votes for the death penalty, or have a military defensive strategy, we are all in a small way guilty of permitting it, since our tax dollars support it. So before the (arrogant) christians jam their self-righteous laws down most people's throats, they need to look at their slate and see if it's clean. Christ-centered believers would believe OBL should have been spared his life, been tried, imprisoned, and given time to rehash his life and ask for forgiveness of his past sins and commit his life in the hands of the Lord Jesus. But on the other hand, he may have had many chances to stop his madness and didn't, therefore asked for it. It requires a person who is willing to forgive and it's very hard thing to do, but, in other instances when families gather to watch a death row prisoner get executed, you have two groups, those who gloat and can't wait to see him die, and the other group who are crying for him and pray that God and he have made amends, that that he's in paradise this day.
Same as Jesus on the cross, the thief who asked him if he'd let him go with him to Paradise, and Jesus said this day he would be. Simple as that.
Glad I'm an atheist and don't have to hung up on such things. Yes, I cheered when I heard of bin Laden's death, just as I cried when I heard of the tragic events on 9/11.
ReplyDeleteBill Maher is conflicted about Christianity because of his own religious/cultural background, period. Might not be pc to say it, but there it is. I don't care if he is simply an atheist for intellectual reasons, it's more than that.
ReplyDeleteHow a man who admits to being friends with Ann Coulter can be taken even the slightest bit seriously is beyond me.
As for mainstream Christian churches not devoting energy to disavowing the far right - sorry if they are wasting their time trying to help the poor and fighting for progressive political causes! - that's bs.
How about mainstream Islam not particularly standing up and speaking out against the extremists in their faith? How about mainstream Jews not speaking out about the maniacs of their faith who think nothing of killing and ruining the lives of countless Arabs who have done nothing except having the misfortune to be born in the wrong place?
We can get all high and mighty about these groups not taking care of their dirty little problems, or we can just wake up every day and work on making this world a better place. Not real sure how Bill Maher figures into that, quite honestly. I think Bill Maher is all about Bill Maher.
He is not in a position to call out Christianity, I am sorry.
The poster above who has taken the trouble to discuss the moral and ethical problems when trying to reconcile Christ's teachings with the world's challenges, thank you.
This is deep stuff, not "hang ups", talking. One doesn't have to bother with it if one doesn't want, but these questions are there for any who wish to ponder them. Show some respect, people.
Maher has a point regarding the party atmosphere in the wake of bin Laden's death. One thing that I noticed, however, was that MOST (not all, but most) of those celebrating were young, in their late teens to 20's. In this demographic, bin Laden has been THE face of evil for all of their lives or at least during the time that they became aware of global events. To them bin Laden came to represent evil itself, while us older farts have seen plenty of characters come and go that were every bit as fetid as bin Laden. To the younger crowd it was almost as if we killed Satan or evil itself.
ReplyDeleteMaher is evangelically anti religion. He is as zealous in his attempt to discredit all organized religion as any of the bible thumping militantly evangelical KKKhristians. If he knew his history a bit better he'd realize that this position of a Christian, if not exactly celebrating death, but actively working to effect a single death is not unique.
German Christian theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who began WWII a committed pacifist, became actively involved in the plot to assassinate Hitler. He did not moralize that his position was sanctified, quite the contrary: he admitted that his position was indeed sinful and far short of Christ's model. However, he also acknowledged that he lived in an imperfect and sinful world and that killing Hitler was the option that ultimately led to the least number of deaths due to warfare. By killing Hitler, the war would have been shortened and lives would have been saved. Bonhoeffer viewed this action absolutely necessary, but also absolutely sinful.
His involvement in this plot led to his execution in a Nazi prison just prior to the end of the war. Bonhoeffer knew absolutely that his involvement would prove fatal if he were discovered, yet, knowing it to be against every precept of Christ, and knowing that it could very well cost him his life, he still chose to be part of the plot to kill Hitler.
So it was with bin Laden. I did not celebrate his death, but neither did I shed any tears. I was genuinely sorry that we had to kill him, but I also would have personally pulled the trigger without hesitation. Does anybody really doubt that if bin Laden were allowed to live to be a ripe old age that he would NOT have planned the deaths of more innocent men, women, and children? This single death has undoubtedly saved hundreds, possibly thousands of lives.
I am reminded of the words of Mark Twain:
"I did not attend his funeral, but I wrote a nice letter saying I approved of it."
Just tell me where I need to send my note of approval.
I don't see a problem. After all hundreds upon thousands have been massacred in the name of "christianity" since the first crusades in the 10th century.
ReplyDeleteI love Bill Maher's show and never miss it. I, too, deplore the supposed 'christians' we have in our midst....they reek of racism, are unAmerican and many should be deported to another country for treason. They lie, cheat and steal as no others on earth.
ReplyDeleteThings that are different are not the same.
ReplyDeleteOsama bin Laden and the al Queda organization have sworn to do everything in their power to destroy the United States of America, and to kill as many Americans as possible. In essence, they declared war. They took credit for the Sept. 11, 2001 massacre of unarmed civilians. It was essential that the US government take action to prevent any more slaughter of our citizens. That's what the government is supposed to do. That's what the executive officer of our government ordered, and got it done. None of this has anything to do with anyone's belief in God. It's power that the al Queda want; and it's power that our president exercised for our benefit.
The Lord Jesus Christ does not resemble any of the bloodthirsty religionists who claim His name.