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| Sarah Palin on March 26, 2008. Eighteen days before "birth" of Trig Palin. |
I will post it fairly early tomorrow morning because, and some of you may not be aware of this, IM receives more visitors on the weekdays than on the weekends. In order for the most people to have the opportunity to read what Fred has written I decided it would be best to post it on a day that saw more traffic so that I would not have people asking me over and over again about an update.
I think that most of you will be very pleased with the information, though for some of the more impatient ones it might be a little frustrating.
Just like with Joe and Geoffrey's books, there are ALWAYS new revelations which threaten to change the tenor of the book or delay its release. I learned long ago that patience is my best friend.
Speaking of patience, I should also let you know that there are many MORE revelations coming out about the Grizzled Mama, and her "Alaska mafia." Including one that I heard just the other day that I am hoping like crazy I can manage to prove, because even among the most jaded Palin watchers this one will be huge.
One thing I can share is that some, who are claiming to be in the know, are convinced that Palin actually WILL announce her candidacy during her speech in Iowa on September 3rd.
I remain somewhat skeptical, but as I have said before I would not put ANYTHING past this lunatic.
I know a couple of authors who would be thrilled if Palin DID launch a short lived, ultimately doomed campaign in early September. And I do have to admit that it would certainly bring more players into the "Sources for Gryphen" family.
I guess that would not be all bad now would it?
Update: I was just now watching Meet the Press, and sitting there with my plate of eggs watching David Gregory ask David Plouffe just WHICH bills the government will pay for certain if the debt ceiling does NOT get raised by Tuesday suddenly just pissed me the hell off!
So I would like to vent a little.
When the Tea Party was in its infancy and nobody was paying it much attention, the Koch brothers arranged for Sarah Palin to make appearances on their behalf and essentially, along with the spastic Glenn Beck, become the face of the Teabaggers. Because of her unrivaled name recognition she brought tons of undeserved attention to what was clearly a very unsophisticated astro-turf group of angry racists, who, over time, were polished with corporate money enough so that they were able to choose and back candidates who are currently holding our country hostage.
While that was taking place there were those who were working overtime to convince me to drop the babygate story because it was never going to "make any difference."
"Just focus on the wild ride story, Gryph. That will be enough to stop her if enough people hear about it. The babygate story just makes you, and ALL of us, seem like crazy conspiracy theorists."
Of course I refused, and as my reward I found myself isolated. I learned over time that journalists were steered away from me, for fear I would bring up"that crazy conspiracy story."
At one point I was so close I could taste it, to REALLY blowing this whole thing up. But I was sabotaged by those I considered my friends. In my personal opinion if I had received more support, and if others had worked side by side with me, Sarah Palin would NEVER have been able to provide the spark that the Koch brothers used to start the Teabagger bonfire.
So I would just like to take a moment to say FUCK YOU!
Fuck you for playing it safe. Fuck you for worrying about appearances more than truth. And fuck you for being a coward.
And while I am on this rant I would also like to say fuck you to those who wanted the babygate story all for themselves. Fuck you for driving people off of the net who were selflessly working to bring this story to the American people. Fuck you for chasing away sources who were timidly coming forward, until they realized that people might soon learn their true identities. And fuck you for damaging the reputation of good people because YOUR ego demanded that you get credit for EVERYTHING.
Okay I am done now. Sorry if some of you found that offensive or a little out of character, but damn I have been holding that inside for years.
The babygate story is NOT just about a mother protecting her daughter, or her family. It is MUCH deeper and uglier than that. And once it is really out there in the public consciousness, it should serve as the stepping stone to revealing all kinds of political manipulations and Faustian deals that might finally awaken a slumbering populace and get them to focus on taking back their country from the corporations and political fat cats who have held the reins of power for much, much too long.
And with that Gryphen steps off of his soapbox. Thank you for listening.
They say she'll announce every public appearance she has. Yet somehow, she never does. That's a whole 30 days away. No telling what mental breakdown she'll have in that time. Last time she was on FOX, she looked & sounded deranged, unable to even correctly tag that Bush created TARP. I think if Palin does announce, she'll make Fred Thompson's 2008 5-week run look masterful. Will she last a week before quitting?
ReplyDeleteI think we can all agree that Palin is clearly mentally unbalanced, so applying conventional logic to any of her actions is futile. She just may throw her bumpit in the ring, but she has already succeeded in making so many political enemies, that her candidacy will be mercifully, short-lived.
ReplyDeleteIf a giant-fail run for POTUS is what it takes to permanently remove Sarah Palin and her tribe of grifters from the national stage, I'm all for it!
Run Sarah, Run!
Can she stay clean long enough to give her favorite targets, the Republicans, a final back stab?
ReplyDeleteI believe interest in sarah will explode when the public learns about babygate. The MSM will play clip after clip of sarah ¨delighting in her duplicity.¨ The public will see how sarah gloried in the praise of undergoing childbirth but cared nothing for the child. sarah and her enablers will disappear from public life but interest in the babygate story will grow bigger than sarah.
ReplyDeleteI believe the bigger story about babygate is what it says about our political system, our national identity, and our press.
Sarah Palin has shown herself to be - at best - disorganized, impulsive, thin-skinned, reactionary, disinterested in developing any depth of policy knowledge, and (worst of all) a QUITTER.
ReplyDeleteThe big money boys back winners. Not losers, not even losers who whine about their victimhood.
Scarah simply has not done the work: no staff, no plan, no preparation.
She looks increasingly like the fluke she is: a small timer who got lucky, a one-shot also-ran, a celebrity candidate with a small number of extremist supporter.
All of the above is not what a winning candidate looks like. Scarah might be insulated in her fantasy world of magical winning and revenge, but that won't be enough.
She'll flame out, or burn the GOP down with her with a third party run.
I knew that book would never show up.
ReplyDeleteI've got all the patience in the WORLD and hope what's coming will take her out once and for all.
ReplyDeleteI find it pathetic how she tries to remain relevant and, instead, looks increasingly dumber and desperate. Every appearance more haggard, screechy.
It may not be right to revel in someone's demise but I'm enjoying this. IMMENSELY. She asked for every bit of what she's getting.
One comment I read somewhere said she was laying ow and "studying up" on policy.
ReplyDeleteOne, I don't want someone for president who has to cram for simple campaign speeches.
And two, how do make up for all the obviously inadequate education she's had in a couple of months. Is she re-reading a fifth grade history text to learn about Paul Revere? And they'll never correct the illogic - unless.... first brain transplant?
She'll announce on the 3rd that she's running and she'll announce that she's running as an Independent. Count on it.
ReplyDelete$arah Palin is giving a Tea Party speech in Iowa on September 3rd? September 3rd is the day she gave her big RNC speech in 2008. I don't think the date is a coincidence. I wouldn't be surprised if that narcissistic
ReplyDeletebitch did announce that she was running for president on the 3rd anniversary of her Nazi coming out party. If she runs and divides the GOP, I say go for it! But she'll never be president.
Anon 6:48 am said:
ReplyDeleteI believe interest in Sarah will explode when the public learns about babygate. The MSM will play clip after clip of sarah ¨delighting in her duplicity.¨
Agree. Just look at that cheese-eating smile in that picture with her arm around that little girl. Same thing with that smug face on the Elan Frank tummy-thumping, "tight-abs", video and also the audio clip of her "explaining" the wild ride (she was just makin' it up as she went along). I hope we see these things played over and over again in the lamestream media. (I wonder what Faux News will put on the air while all this is going on?)
I wish I could be optimistic about this book.
ReplyDeleteBut let's be realistic. Unless it presents ironclad proof that Palin's pregnancy was a hoax, I can't see it making any negative impact on her at all. Even if it does, I can't.
But if all this book does is regurgitate everything we're already familiar with (which is what I suspect), which despite repeated attempts has not been enough to break through the cordon of MSM silence, I can see it creating sympathy for Palin.
And the press will do its best to ignore or denigrate anything that makes it look bad.
Gryphen, can you give us any reason why we SHOULD feel optimistic?
As of this today, July 30, 2011, the movie the Undefeated is over, done, annihilated, beaten, destroyed, embarrassed, shellacked, trashed, trounced, vanquished; it has been decimated. It was a huge failure. Victory Film Group is not victorious, and will never be. Even with DVD sales, we can now predict that they will lose over half-a-million dollars on this project. Sarah Palin has lost face.
ReplyDeleteAMC has a web site to assist customers who want to find a movie that might be difficult to locate. Sarah Palin’s movie, the Undefeated, isn’t just hard to find. It’s totally gone, absent, unavailable. It’s not available in ANY AMC theater! Here is the web site. There is a tab for movies “now playing” which explains that “If it’s playing at an AMC theatre, you’ll find it here.” On page 6 you can click on Sarah Palin’s movie and this is what is reported in bright red letters:
“THERE ARE NO MOVIE TIMES
AVAILABLE FOR:
The Undefeated: Sarah Palin Documentary
on Saturday, July 30th …”
In the space of two weeks the Undefeated has been DEFEATED. If she can’t make it in the theater longer than two weeks, she probably can’t make it on the campaign trail any longer. Especially because the 10 markets were specifically chosen to appeal to her fans, the failure of the movie is a powerful sign that she is a failure. The defeat is palpable. HURRAY!
http://malialitman.wordpress.com/2011/07/30/the-undefeated-is-gone-its-over-the-end-is-here/
Oh, but don't forget that she promised when she announced it would be on that Alaska radio show. She never goes back on promises. It just wouldn't be right.
ReplyDelete7:03 said "One comment I read somewhere said she was laying ow and "studying up" on policy."
ReplyDeleteWell, if her "interview" with Greta VS the other day was any indication, the studying is not going well.
If she announces as an independent, one of two things will happen: either the GOP back room operatives will go into motion and sideline her with her skeletons, or the GOP will spontaneously fracture into its extremest social/religious, financial conservative, and moderate government factions.
ReplyDeleteEither way, we'll need more popcorn and maybe a potent new cocktail named for the spectacle we're about to witness.
How about a cocktail contest? Rachel Maddow will get on board.
Jack Caffery of CNN commented that it would be "the greatest show on earth" if Palin does indeed announce her candidacy, in that sardonic manner he has. As long as I can believe that Quitter would have no chance in hell of winning, it would be fun to watch her deconstruct at debates, press conferences, etc. Of course she's not brave enough to face those; thus, the so-called unconvential campaign heralded by her minions at C$P, of Tweets and FB postings. Yeah, "womanup" yourself, Quitter.
ReplyDeleteScarah has to figure out a way to go out in a blaze of glory. Pity falling on one's sword no longer has the cachet it once did.
ReplyDeleteSarah won't run.
ReplyDeleteCandidates have to disclose their personal financial information as well as details on how their PAC money is being/has been spent.
(Pity - it would have been such a great stupid-off when she debated Michelle Bachmann.)
Gryph? Wouldn't Sarah's personal financials include Trig's birth expenses?
Like I said: Sarah won't run.
I maintain what I have said all along. IF she can get away with it, she'll hold off announcing until after Joe's book comes out. She won't announce if there's a chance something in the book could take her down thus causing her to look like a fool (well...MORE of one) when she has to withdraw right away.
ReplyDeleteI've always thought she would try to get her hands on an advance copy- and with her connections, she could. She may already know that nothing in The Rogue will be a dealbreaker for her base.
However, while I think she will announce...I believe it's just a ploy to get that huge cashgrab which would come with her faithful being all amped up about Prezident Waterbra. I do not think she actually intends to follow through. The PAC donation checks will clear and suddenly Trig will have a medical issue or some other manufactured problem which will require her to tearfully explain that she has to put her children first, etc.
Remember, SP couldn't hack it through a VP campaign without going into catatonic dissociative states. No way she could handle the rigors of a presidential campaign, even if she WAS qualified to lead-- and make no mistake about it, she's not fit to lead a trail of ants to a picnic.
...so I was looking for more pics from the March 26th event - just like the collection at palin deceptions: http://www.palindeception.com/calendar/days/032608.html
ReplyDeleteI stumbled on this photo which I have never seen before - Palin leaving that same event with her open coat blowing in the wind showing her tight abs. This is a woman that is 32 weeks pregnant????
http://www.profimedia.si/picture/sarah-palin-birth-controversy/0092945028/
P.S. why are her pants so wrinkled?
As usual, more questions than answers when it comes to The Palins.
When is her Faux contract up? She'll either announce the next day, or as soon as it's evident they aren't going to renew. By then, she won't have anything to lose.
ReplyDeleteWill the Bob and Mark show have a live feed from her speech? She promised them she would announce on their radio show.
ReplyDeleteShe may announce close to Joe's book release, hoping her hoopla will grab attention away.
For Sarah, running for president is a way to have another reality tv program. Her ego needs the attention, her (and Todd's) appetites require the cash that a "campaign" would bring in.... both while she's running (for however long that is) and most importantly, after her campaign ends. She knows that she stands no chance of being the nominee. But she'll be campaigning all right -- campaigning to promote the Family Brand. She wants to keep getting high-fee speaking engagements and get her kids positioned for careers on reality shows. What better way to do that than pretending to run for POTUS?
ReplyDeleteIF Sarah announces, she already made a HUGE and I mean HUGE mistake. The best political organizers have already hired on with others. And due to revelations already revealed about Sarah and her unstable mental state, I doubt many of those others out there will hire on with the craziness and ruin their future careers.
ReplyDeletePS
IF she runs as a 3rd party candidate, it takes MORE work to get that party on the individual state ballots.
Also too, Sarah we are still waiting for ALL those prenatal medical appts, including those with specialists to be made public like you promised in 2008. A letter from CBJ will NOT be enopugh.
Gryphen, regarding your update rant: I for one look forward to the day the whole story will be revealed and this Quitter fraud will slither back under the rock from which she crawled. The truth is out there.
ReplyDeleteNo worries here Gryph, and thanks for hanging in there. Long, long ago I googled Sarah Palin to find out who the heck she was. I began by reading all of the AK blogs and just for the reasons you name, I'm down to regularly reading only yours and Progressive AK and now Stone Kettle, with the occasional visit to anything Celtic Diva writes.
ReplyDeleteAnd, yeah, I stopped reading the other two because the attitude changed from providing info to building reputations and popularity.
I don't want them to go away, but it isn't where I spend my time.
Again, thanks for hanging in there. Isolation sucks, but stubbornness and persistence will out.
You're tops on my blog list.
As a mother, I never found her story remotely credible. That speech where she said something about, 'I've had four kids already, I think I know what labor is like' chilled me. Anyone who had had one baby and who has listened to the stories of friends and sisters knows that there is no set pattern for labor, that it's totally unpredictable. You also become aware of what you say affecting other moms.
ReplyDeleteSP's story was over the top, and she was such an attention hound that you knew her rational behind why she didn't share the news ('old sourdoughs who'd not like it') was a blatant lie.
Gryph,
ReplyDeleteI think you and I are on the same thought level this morning !! Thank you for being there !!
HOLY SHIT BAustin.....there are more of those pics there. Where did they come from?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.profimedia.si/editorial/search/photographer/PC-0092945028
Gryphen, you want to have a look at those!
Since @7:03 #3 says she will announce on 9/3, you can bet she will NOT announce. This same person has said she'll announce every month this year, via his comments on IM. And was always wrong.
ReplyDeleteGryphen, just read your update. Sorry it's been so difficult. We are with you and thank you.
OMG! @ 7:58
ReplyDeleteWhy has no one seen this photo before!
Gryphen WTF!
Gryphen, did you know any of the people killed on the float plane crash in Trapper Creek, Alaska?
ReplyDeleteThank you for venting, Gryphen. I can only imagine the troubles you've been through as you've remained true to your own incredibly ethical, moral, and clear-headed vision of how to pursue various stories - including Babygate. Also, it seems you've been incredibly kind to certain sources (Like Mercede and her mom) and protective of others who have wanted to remain anonymous -- and in those situations, it's hard to move forward and be aggressive about announcing things you've discovered. And it's so complicated! Mercede and her mom may truly not be privy to certain information -- like Levi potentially being Trig's dad -- and because they don't know this for sure, and you honor what they've told you, some overzealous Trig Truthers have tried to say that you're hiding stuff. You're not. You're working your ass off, 24/7, to bring us nuanced, complex information, and I for one appreciate you in so many ways!
ReplyDeleteIf you ever wanted to start a Gryphen cult, I'd be happy to sign up! :) You rock, my dear, dear, man.
Damnit G, why do you always post the good stuff when I'm going on vacation ? I'll be heading up to the beach @ 6 am my time, so I'll have to get my son to read it off the iPhone ;).
ReplyDeleteI agree wholeheartedly with you FU's. More power to ya
OMG Gryphen, your soapbox rant sounds just like me.
ReplyDeleteCould you be more specific (at some point) about "journalists being steered away from you"?
From my very different vantage point than yours (I'm just a regular person, reading), I have come to think that Rupert and his pals have muzzled this story (and it is the canary for other muzzled stories) in the same way that Katherine Graham enabled Watergate.
I sure hope your timeline for pulling this all together is BEFORE our next election, when people like me me will be running in the streets with flaming torches.
Keep working on it, Gryphen! I want the truth to come out about the fake pregnancy, whether Sarah Palin runs for president or not.
ReplyDeleteExcellent commentary Gryph and no offense taken as it's been a long time coming & well said!
ReplyDeleteThank you for verbalizing so well the thoughts that merely circulate in our brains.
Gryphen...those pics are for sale! I have saved them all but the damn logo is just where the interesting bits are.
ReplyDeleteNo need to apologize, Gryphen. If anyone deserves a good rant, it's you.
ReplyDeleteGryphen, thank you for the rant in the update. Venting your frustration like that helps us too, in ways you may not understand.
ReplyDeleteWe do truly feel your pain because we know you care enough to tirelessly pursue this shameful scandal in the face of everything that's been thrown at you by those who would silence your voice.
We all should have a common goal: to throw light onto the truth about this shameful bought-and-paid-for politician whose greed, whose lust for power, caused her to sell her soul to the machiavellian forces who orchestrated the entire scheme.
I don't believe Sarah intends to run for President. Because her puppet master's scheme fell apart, she's just being allowed to continue to feather her financial nest until a lack of interest finally brings her quest to a halt.
Sarah is the weak link in all of this and Babygate is the key. Even if she were to disappear from the face of the earth today, the effort to continue the search for the truth to expose these corrupt bastards must continue until the end because the truth must be told.
Other than that, Sarah's not worth knowing.
Keep up the good fight!
BAustin: this is a GREAT find, a great addition to our key photos.
ReplyDeleteGryphen, can you get an unwatermarked one? I did the lightening thing, and one can clearly see the band around her middle.
BAustin--To me, the wrinkled pants seem like it's that crinkly material. THX thx for your diligent searching. This photo is NEW (to us) and it sure fits the chronology and supports the HOAX premise.
I hope we all realize we need to be wary of anyone who claims to be in the know regarding Palin info.
ReplyDeleteBut Gryphen, thanks for your rant. It was much needed. I trust you above all other bloggers but I also acknowledge even you can get swept up in rumors that never materialize. I only ask that you refrain from publicizing such things until you know they are true.
I also hope you will take people feelings to heart more often. Your blog are too caused some people undeserved hurt. Please be mindful of what you write.
YOu hang in there Gryph.
ReplyDeleteI agree that those pictures are quite a find.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.profimedia.si/image/detail/0092945022
This one is particularly interesting..it shows her mid January..no boobs..no baby bump of any kind....NO way. How can anyone believe this woman was 6 months pregnant with her fifth child...tight abs be damned.
I remember some disturbances the past 2 years between you and other bloggers, Gryphen, particularly around the time of Netroots Nation in August 2009 (not the one just a month and a half ago), where certain Alaska bloggers did not give you ANY support on your pursuit of Babygate. In fact, some of their public statements undercut you.
ReplyDeleteYou didn't name who you're aiming your "FUCK YOU" at, but for me, you don't have to. I know which Alaska bloggers seemed more interested in the progress of their own careers than uncovering the proof of Babygate.
Here's the deal. Gryphen, I sense, is a deeply intuitive and intelligent person, and doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would doggedly investigate such a possibility without extremely compelling evidence. And, Sarah Palin is just the kind of person who would pull off such a hoax.
ReplyDeleteBut what I can't get past is that, except for the DS nature of his features, Trig looks almost exactly like Sarah Palin. Additionally, she is also the kind of person who would put a speech in Texas and a "born in Alaska" birthright for her baby over her baby's actual safety by taking such a ridiculously, recklessly drawn out journey while she was in labor.
In short, I can't seem to get off this fence, people.
enjoyed the rant gryphen, and I join you in saying FUCK YOU to all those people.
ReplyDeletelike some others, I have been curious as to what your most recent position on babygate is. I think now it seems that you believe that trig was part of a much bigger plan - one that was in the works for a longer time than 9 months. don't know if I agree with that at the moment, but you could be right. I am coming around to the possibility. it does "fit" with the way that politics actually works in this country - it's all manufactured to produce a certain outcome.
Please tell me those pictures are not the work of Photoshop and are dated correctly. If so, there is no way Sarah Palin was pregnant with Trig or any other child.
ReplyDelete"Tight abs," my foot. Women who are really fit and slim show right away. Women who are heavier don't show right away, but even they start showing at 7/8 months.
Sarah, "womanup" and come clean.
You, fraud!
Gryphen, thanks for all that you do. "Good fortune favors the brave."
Whew Gryph, glad you got that off your chest and I'm sending you a virtual 'cold one' your way. Wish I could send you a real one though, but I'm tentatively slated to be furloughed indefinitely from my State job should the federal monies be compromised from next week's debt ceiling decision. Oh joy, I didn't see that coming.
ReplyDeleteO/T ... interesting read. Goldman Sach's has a new line of work, hoarding aluminum.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43931226/ns/business-us_business/
I hope your rant helped you. It is long overdue. Those of us who read your blog know the who, what and why of your rant.
ReplyDeleteI sincerely hope it helped to give you a 'second wind'. You are going to need it. And as to who gets the 'credit' for babygate......
It will be YOU! It doesn't matter who they say it is, it will be YOU, who never gave up.
Thanks for all you've done and will continue doing.
Well for starters she's smart to not trust oldtime politicial operatives in DC, as no one there is trustworthy. That is proven. Helen Thomas book.
ReplyDeleteShe is definitely unconventional. She only discusses things with Todd and her PAC peeps. It's stupid to think people who communicate with G know the truth about her plans.
But thank you for not buying into the trig is bristols theory. That is stupid. Despite it all, I'm just glad Trig is loved and defended against all the people who say he shouldn't have been born.
I love this site, but am really tired with all these "iceberg, dead ahead!" stories. Call us when she hits the iceberg, okay? Until then, Palin and the "Tiny Team with Tiny Brains" provide more than enough material to mock and ridicule.
ReplyDelete@8:21AM
ReplyDeletethose pictures were taken around the 1st week of April....it states 3 weeks after her announcement which was 3/5/8
it's clear she's wearing some kind of square pillow.
Even more clear is the fact that she is NOT PREGNANT. No way, no how.
LIAR, LIAR!
Thanks G man. I can back up all your feelings toward certain people, as I have had similar dealings with them and came away with the same opinion.
ReplyDeleteI still hate that this is over an innocent child. It can't be overlooked that Trig has never been in danger and receives love daily from his mother, sibs and family. Please don't forget that.
Excellent post. My sentiments exactly. Also, I hope the babygate book plants a "seed of doubt" in people's minds.
ReplyDeleteGryphen, you are entitled to your rant. You and a few others have been bold on Babygate and other significant Palin issues that most journalists won't touch with a 10-foot pole. But the public needs to see the dark underbelly of Sarah Palin's self-serving Christian-patriot-family values facade.
ReplyDeleteI'm not Alaskan so I know only what I read about Palin's dirty dealings there. But I've been pregnant six times and given birth to five children, so I knew from the get-go the Wild Ride was bunk. And there are many nail-in-the-coffin pictures published. The one you posted today is one of my favorites. There's some variation in how babies are carried, but clearly there is no growing baby in that belly.
Joe M and others think Sarah will announce in September. I hope she doesn't. I want her to go away. She's bad news. While I read descriptions of her as a narcissist or worse, I don't know enough psychology to venture an opinion there.
But I know what struck me about the VP debate, even more than her lame non-answers to Gwen Ifill's questions. It was when Biden alluded to the car crash which killed his wife and one child, and seriously injured another child. Palin's facial expression didn't change at all. There was no sign of sympathy, sadness, or any normal emotions--just blankness. I saw she was missing a few essentials of a normal person.
She isn't merely ignorant, shallow, and grasping. She's emotionally crippled, which makes her dangerous. I believe that Romney and others have extensive damaging information about her. I know Nicolle Wallace said she will talk if Palin runs. But I don't want her to run. I thought there was no chance Dubya could win, and look what happened.
So I'm glad you're staying on this, Gryphen. I look forward to learning more about Fred's book, and to your continuing coverage of any facts that can help end Palin's political career.
The only thing that confuses me is why you use the word 'ugly'. Faking a pregnancy isn't really 'ugly' in my vocab. Not even to win an election. I also wouldn't use 'immoral'. I would probably say dirty just because its dishonest but there are far dirtier deeds committed daily.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the update, Gryphen and I don't blame you for being so pissed off! I mentioned something on another post asking if the failed bus tour was a distraction to the babygate story that you were writing about back in April and May. I felt that after the Brad Scharlot post that you did that you were gaining traction that would get some MSM looks but then the bus tour started up. I'll have to admit that this whole Palin myth is just more sinister than most of us can imagine. Why else would the whole tabloid industry avoid admiting that Bristol Palin was pregnant during the DWTS??! TMZ is usually on that kind of shit like white on rice but no way would they touch that story.
ReplyDeleteI feel like we are Rome in the last days of circuses (reality TV)and bread (junk food). I live in IN and the teaparty is starting to gain traction in my blood-red state and it's just sickening. I will do my part to elect good progressives and keep them accountable but there just aren't enough on my side to make a difference in my state.
While we're at it, could we please say a huge "FU"(!!!) to Ezra Klein? He could have cut Twitler off at the pass, but, instead, he gave her a green light to continue the lies and deception. And, thus, Gabrielle Giffords.
ReplyDeletehttp://palinquestions.blogspot.com/2010/07/raw-journolist-e-mails-on-babygate.html
And a huge "BU" (Bless YOU) to Gryphen!!
woah ... a lot of repressed feelings ... so much anger ...come to india !
ReplyDeleteOh man. If this thing is ever fully exposed, there aregoing to be some confuse Alaskans about - teens and adults alike. Very few ppl know the truth. Very few close staff members know the truth. Extended family members don't know the truth. That should tell one everything regarding why this hasn't been uncovered yet.
ReplyDeleteAs long as we're observing, Trig doesn't just look just like Sarah, he very closely resembles an adolsecent Track. Like, the two could be twins. Trig has also greatly resembled a Toddler Willow and we all see his likeness to Piper. Interesting that those 3 kids closely resemble Todd. Hmmmmmmmm
ReplyDeletethe only thing she's runnng is her mouth
ReplyDeleteOT
ReplyDeleteGryphen, get a load of this. It's more Teabaggers' attempt to deny free speech to anyone with an opinion different than theirs. This incident is especially egregious since they followed the MoveOn group to a private home.
http://www.nrtoday.com/article/20110731/NEWS/110739994/1063/NEWS&ParentProfile=1055
I call bullshit on those posters who are telling us about Trig's daily love from his mother. Thank you for proving beyond a doubt that Sarah is not his mother. If so...where was he when they took that infamous "family vacation" bus tour? Home with his real mother, if we can believe your comments.
ReplyDeleteAlso..I am so sick and tired of these damned wingnutters trying to say that those of us who don't believe this ridiculous story (it wasn't even a believable story line for "Desperate Housewives" which I feel sure is where she got the idea from) think he should not have been born. That is not true. I have never read one single comment that she should have aborted him. FYI..."Pro Choice"..means I believe with all my heart that each and every woman should be allowed to chose for herself if she is ready to have a child. NO one else has any say in the matter. period. So, if a woman chooses to have a Downs child...more power to her. My own daughter chose to carry a baby that the ultrasound showed would be born with profound problems. They decided that whatever the issues were, they would deal with them and love the child for as long as they had her. So cut the Pro Life smoke screen.
Also double bullshit on the poster who describes Sarah as being so smart and unconvential, but a loving mother. Sure.. dragging that pregnant 17 year old out to face the world was a real act of love.
Anon at 9:06 am, nobody here, and I mean NOBODY, has ever said or suggested that Trig shouldn't have been born. Nice try, though. I would say that most people here show far, far more concern for Trig than Sarah ever has. She may not have aborted him, but she certainly has disposed of him recently. In fact, one of the things I despise the most about her is her complete failure as a mother. The way she exposed Bristol to ridicule just to further her career was despicable. The way she treats Trig is despicable. Her birth story, if she is to be believed, is despicable. Sarah always puts herself first.
ReplyDeleteSarah looks huge in those new photos someone posted a link to. She looks different than the famous one from that event. I'm not sure those help or hurt us.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.profimedia.si/picture/sarah-palin-birth-controversy/0092945022/
ReplyDeleteThis is the one that nails it for me. NO way is this woman 7 plus months pregnant. Her face is unchanged from when she was no pregnant.
RE Anonymous 9:06 comment "I'm just glad Trig is loved and defended against all the people who say he shouldn't have been born."
ReplyDeleteNOBODY has said any such thing EVER EVER EVER. You are a jackass!!! Repeating a lie doesn't make it true! GAD! I don't know you and I despise you.
Any time you want to rant, come sit over here by me.
ReplyDeleteWow! Someone should contact the photographer and see if he has others from this day and other days during this time period. Huge difference in the look in her tummy then and just 2 weeks later, the full-blown empathy belly gusty photo. Proof the museum photo was not doctored, you trolls!!
ReplyDeleteBAustin,
ReplyDeleteIf you lighten your screen, you can see that she is wearing SpongeBob SquarePants again. Looks like the same outfit she wore in the picture of her with her arm around the young girl.
You found yourself isolated because you are a leader.
ReplyDeleteIt is that simple.
Wow, the same concern troll posted 3 times about the lovin' Tr. gets at the lovin' Palin home. SOUNDS PRETTY DESPERATE. And they complimented you each time to boot, G.
ReplyDeleteYou sure got the old hens cackling over at Political Gates. LOL! I hope someday we get to realize who "Patrick" really is.
ReplyDeleteanon@9:06
ReplyDeleteAnd just who would "all those people" who wanted Trig aborted be? Hmmmm? Only the Palinbots make that statement. Pants on fire.
Technically we have no idea if she has a plan or not. And I don't blame her for keeping things to herself, as there areimmoral backstabbers all over. Not just in DC. Everyone only looks out for themselves.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't be shocked if she did get an advance copy of joes book. Though what could it say that's a shock to her? No one is a better source for sarahs life than sarah herself. The only surprise will be HOW joe spins things. A good author can make even the best of people look evil. (I wasn't saying sarah is the best of people, just stating that good writers can sway malleable minds)
ReplyDeleteThere are so few people who are sensitive enough in their ability to read others concerning what is happening to our country. Those of us who do see it are stunned when we realize that everyone either does not see it or just doesn't care. Gryph, thank you so much for being appalled at what you inherently knew and seeking answers to what was going on. I come here first and last thing every day( and several times in between) because I see all of it too. I so appreciate all you have done despite the roadblocks. I know in my heart and soul that when this all comes out it will be because you started seeking and did not give up. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteann
Second 9:06: Can you provide ONE example, one single example, of a person who says "Trig should never have been born"? I have never, NEVER read that anywhere except in Palinbot comments. I have never seen an anti-Palin commenter on this or any other blog even suggest that. Instead, most people are focused on and CONCERNED ABOUT his welfare now. We never see photos of him with glasses and hearing aids. We've seen his mom holding him awkwardly while he's underdressed (diapers and short-sleeved shirt) compared to everyone around him (winter coats). We all hope very much that he is indeed loved and cared for, but the photographic evidence we have indicates the opposite.
ReplyDeleteAnd our reaction to that isn't to say that he shouldn't have been born. Instead, we hope the woman who calls herself his mother, who clearly used him for political gain and has little affection for him, has found someone else to raise him who does love him and care for his needs.
No one, to the best of my knowledge, thinks Trig should not have been born. We want his life to continue to matter, to be the highest quality possible, now that he's no longer a political statement.
Wow, G. I'm so glad you got that off your chest.
ReplyDeleteThose are some things that I have wanted to scream, too. FU, "J"...for treating babygate theorists like dog crap on your shoe. Now you have your name on a book and lots of money...but how do you sleep at night?
And another FU to "P"...who apparently thinks he invented babygate. Yeah, you got a couple of "scoops"...but at what cost? No wonder you've been fired from other blogs. Your ego and determination to hog babygate has driven away God knows how many people you kept from coming forward because of your relentless pursuit to expose people or torment the ones who already are out there.
Thanks for letting ME vent, Gryphen.
"all the people who say he shouldn't have been born."..just ONCE I'd like to see some link to a reference to that. fuck off now, please. thanks!
ReplyDeleteBAustin -- How in the world did you find those pictures? So many of us have been googling our fingers off and never saw them before. This is IT!
ReplyDeleteHere is the page with that photographer's (Brian Wallace) other pictures of Sarah.
ReplyDeleteHow about the ones in the red suit? March 13, I think? Red suit, buttoned up, no bump, no nothing.
http://www.profimedia.si/editorial/search/photographer/Brian+Wallace
Good rant Gryph! Rants are needed every now and then or one could explode internally and that would be very bad for all concerned.
ReplyDeleteI sure hope she doesn't announce on Sept 3rd as that is my birthday and I don't want to remember the 65th as the day Palin announced for president. OTOH, that could be a true gift as she will then be open to all sorts of vetting that will bring out the truth, or at least enough of it, to bounce her off the world stage forever. Ah, such a wonderful idea.
PS - Your blog, your soapbox. Rant all you want. I appreciate all the work you've down to bring this crazy woman down.
ReplyDeleteThanks Gryph. The play-it-safers are what is wrong with our entire society today. Just watching the debt debacle demonstrates how far one will go to protect their image (or re-election). I am glad you have stayed with the babygate fraud. You are my go to guy - even on the weekends!
ReplyDeleteBAustin...:
ReplyDeleteOh. Em. GEE!!! I can't believe there are photos from that day we've not seen! Major find, my friend!
It is absolutely maddening that the watermark is right over her empty baby-room....but I'm sure one of the resident Photoshop experts can still isolate and highlight that flat as a pancake abdomen.
BAustin @ 7:58 am
ReplyDeleteThanks for providing the links to those pictures of Palin.
That is quite the interesting cumberbund that Palin is wearing UNDER her charcoal sweater.
Sarah, are you trying to wear it as a fashion accessory?
@Anonymous 9:06 who said:
ReplyDelete"But thank you for not buying into the trig is bristols theory. That is stupid. Despite it all, I'm just glad Trig is loved and defended against all the people who say he shouldn't have been born."
Please cite 1 example of ANYONE stating that Trig shouldn't have been born.
@9:06 NO ONE said Trig never should have been born, that's a rumor started by Sarah herself and spread by people like you who just repeat what you've heard without researching the facts.
ReplyDeleteAnon 9:10AM - another 'happy families' troll. No post is complete without them. Say, troll,
ReplyDeletehow would you know what Trig receives every day, do you live
with that bunch?
Sharon TN
nonymous said...
ReplyDeleteWell for starters she's smart to not trust oldtime politicial operatives in DC, as no one there is trustworthy. That is proven. Helen Thomas book.
She is definitely unconventional. She only discusses things with Todd and her PAC peeps. It's stupid to think people who communicate with G know the truth about her plans.
But thank you for not buying into the trig is bristols theory. That is stupid. Despite it all, I'm just glad Trig is loved and defended against all the people who say he shouldn't have been born.
9:06 AM
----------------------------------
Please give me the name of one, just one person who said Trig should never have been born.
As a mother of 5 who has adopted 3 disabled children I find YOUR post offensive. But I do wish Trig had continuity in his care takers, once you sign on to be the mother of a special needs kiddo you have to rotate your life around THEIR needs , not your own. Special needs or not, Trig has been left for WEEKS at a time, without either of his parental figures. Trig should have his eye glasses on and hearing aides in EVERY waking second of every day. And he should he having multiple therapies WITH his parents along weekly. It is not enough to just let things be with any special needs child. You need to to EVERYTHING in your power to make sure they can "be all they can be".
Trig isn't Bristol's IMO, he was adopted to replace Bristol's FAS child that was first pictured. I wonder whatever happened to Ruffles?
But there is no way that SArah gave birth in 2008.
Climbing down off my soapbox now.
Little Rabbit
Was Trig born on April 18th? You might want to correct the caption to "25 days before the birth of Trig" instead of "18 days before the birth of Trig"?
ReplyDeleteJust sayin'. . .
I agree the BAustin pictures that are for sale to media outlets is a great and new-to-me find. I thought that I had seen them all. It amazes me that NO ONE but Gryphen (and a few others) is coming forth and talking. I think that I am in some kind of zombie movie where no one believes what the rest of us are seeing. How can anyone, with a straight face, say that Sarah Palin was pregnant in those photos?! I saw one of my students who just had a baby on Monday, July 25th, and she looked like she was 6 months pregnant - the post partum look. (I am a two-time-pregnant mother so my intelligence was insulted the first time I heard "The Wild Ride Story".) She is young and it was her first pregnancy. Saw the same thing back in May - the girl was 5-days post partum and my son (24 and naive) said she looked like she was going to have another one. I said no, that's what a woman looks like when she's just had a baby. Real women are not Barbie dolls who look svelte even two weeks after having a first baby let alone a fifth pregnancy. I want so BAD to wipe that smirk off of Palin's face when she said she had tight abs. She is so smug because she HAS gotten away with the biggest HOAX on the American people! Sickening, just sickening!!!
No apology needed Gryph. Actually, it felt great to hear someone say what we've all been thinking. It's been a long road and I think everyone on here just wants it put to bed once and for all.
ReplyDeleteI always figured the reason Sarah did not let her speeches be taped except for the first five minutes was because she wanted to limit the number of times she is taped telling the birth story. Sarah is a liar.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeSyGWOo4ZY
ReplyDeletestate of the state 2008.
I don't have time to verify.
To SJK, when I get home, I will post the conversation AGAIN that reveals a woman criticizing Sarah for choosing to bring a special needs child into the world. Other Alaskan (mostly teens) defend her and Trig pretty fervently.
ReplyDeleteWhile you wait for me, I'd recommend opening your ears. There are plenty of people who believe special needs childre shouldn't be born.
@9:25 Track is a Menard. How can Trig look like Track?
ReplyDeleteAre you trying to say that Trig is a Palin? DUH!
God. You're all so touchy. When I write "those who think trig shouldn't have been born", why do you assume I am referencing blog readers?
ReplyDeleteThe whole world doesn't revolve around you. Or sarah for that matter. She knows this. Most people don't follow her because her life is her life. She doesn't seek to change others lives. Who are the manipulators now?
Oh and, feel free to publicly call out the nasty German blogger. He is a liar, fraud and selfish bastard. This I have email proof of.
Somebody with the know how, please, please, please get screen shots of those photos, because they'll be gone as soon as the bots get wind of them.
ReplyDeleteYour rant is understandable. Thank you for not giving up!!
ReplyDelete@10:24 - Not sure what that video verifies. Can you explain? Is she supposed to be pregnant there, because she's not.
ReplyDeleteThe only way we will know if Sarah really IS running or not is if Fox announces that she will not be commenting on their programs. They did make that announcement in advance of Newt and Rick announcing their candidacies. Let me repeat that, Fox did not wait for the announcement. They said that those two likely candidates had given every indication that they were running, so they could not work at Fox any more.
ReplyDeleteSarah appears to still be working at Fox. If she runs, will she have to give them back their studio???
Aww too bad @9:47. Ain't nobody gettin' an advanced copy of Joe's book "The Rogue". He said so. He said his publishing company is taking all precautions to keep ANYONE from seeing what's in the book prior to its release. So I guess Sarah will just have to wait like the rest of "us little people" to see what Joe found out when he was her next door neighbor last summer, 14-foot fence be damned.
ReplyDeleteHa Ha Ha
ReplyDeleteThat Biotch Sarah's 15 minutes are almost over and she brought disgrace to Bristol, Willow, Piper, Bristol's kids, Curt Menard's son Track, to all the Palins and Heaths all for a few bucks.
she looks like shes wearing a jumper. lol.
ReplyDeleteI don't know whether these new pics help or hurt.
You should all be offensive by people who think special needs children shouldnt be born. I have a 4 year old sister who's severely developmentally disabled.
ReplyDeleteBut you shouldnt assume I am lying just because you want to believe everyone who visits this blog cherishes special needs children.
I am so glad I found your site, you have done an outstanding job informing the rest of the country about The Palins and their extraordinary power and corruption in Alaska politics. I think your job will soon be done as you get closer to exposing the truth behind baby gate.
ReplyDeleteWhen that happens, I would love it if your could turn your investigating skills to Michele Bachmann. I realize that it would be a much harder task as you are not familiar with Minnesota politics but if you could use your many connections to get the ball rolling we could put
another racist, homophobic politician on the unemployment line
Grypehn
ReplyDeleteI thought she has 'promised' IF she would run , she would announce it on that Alaska NUT radio show.
I love you Gryphen!
ReplyDeleteHow come Todd's parents have not been part of Sarah's parade? They've stayed out of the retard's spot light.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of Todd, where has that perv been hiding? He thinks hiding will keep his sex affairs out of the news! Think again Taaawwwddd.
There's more secrets coming out!
8:21 am Irishgirl said
ReplyDeleteThat link is race photos, wth
No worries: Brian Wallace owns those photos. He has been a photojournalist in Juneau since the early 80's.
ReplyDeleteI know were to find him if we wanted copies. It look like the Proff. has been in touch with him :-)
The update portion is great. Time to get it off your chest.
ReplyDeleteIF people who know the truth had worked together, there would no longer be any babygate 'mystery'. Humans are self-serving, greedy, and well, in this day and age, media whores.
The evil that surrounds $P and her monetary and Dominionist backers is palpable. Why aren't those bible thumpin' idiots who continue to support her getting the picture? Bible thumpin' does not = true belief in the religion. Any of 'em, all of 'em....
Great rant, Gryphen! I'm being patient, this palin horseshit has to end! Trig may look like her, but she didn't give birth to him....sooo that leaves a lot of possibilities. Keep chipping away..we're behind you!
ReplyDeleteAnon@ 10:30. HUH?? you wrote "because her life is her life. She doesn't seek to change others lives. Who are the manipulators now?" Doesn't wanting to be the leader of the free world "change others lives"? Sarah isn't some neighbor living down your street that wants to live a private life. She wants to be the president for cripes sake. She is not just a normal everyday joe. Every time she opens her mouth or posts on Face Book or Twitter she is trying to insert herself in the discussion and make change....or at least stir things up. She's a pot-stirrer.
ReplyDeleteInteresting trolling,
ReplyDeletesarah´s close aides, immediate family, extended family, and relatives will be seen as complicit in this fraud upon the American people. Feigning ignorance will not fly.
Failure to act is aiding and abetting.
And, sarah, those comments about your base are lies. You have no base. You threw it under the bus.
All your base are belong to us.
It´s been that way for awhile.
echoing in here - rant away!! I have recently promoted IM from a bookmark to a button on my toolbar. As for bloggers Timid and Opportunistic - according to Dante, the circles of hell are determined by how we abuse trust placed in us, first by our loved ones, then by strangers. Shine on, G.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.flickr.com/photos/65883710@N08/5995117044/in/photostream
ReplyDeleteHere. These are Alaskans. Most teens. One teen good friends with Bristol. One teen ex best friends of Mercede.
10:30:
ReplyDeleteMost people don´t know what we know. That is a fact. Ask around and see for yourself.
When a person learns the truth, sarah is fucked. Without fail. That is a fact. Try it.
You will be amazed at how fast sarah´s rickety illusion vaporizes.
I´m tempted to post screencaps of ¨P¨ trying to beg his way into our group.
ReplyDeleteWe had fun with him.
Still do.
Gryphen I have been reading here for years- but rarely post a comment. I just have to say- good for you! I loved your rant. As an outsider I see your country going to hell and I am cheering on the people who are trying to save it- and I am disgusted by the number of people who self-righteously attack and belittle the ones doing the heavy lifting. And those are the ones who are supposed to be on the same side!
ReplyDeleteYes, totally agree - I HAVE NEVER EVER SEEN OR HEARD ANYONE SAY TRIG SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN BORN. I have heard Sarah claim that people have said this, but so the f*#@ what? The woman is a compulsive liar and a con artist extraordinaire. Grifter #1.
ReplyDeleteGryphen, I applaud you for railing against those who tried to control your choices, about those who sabotaged (for as yet undiscovered reasons, I have a few theories on that), about those who didn't support you when you needed it. You are absolutely right on about some of the more mysterious blogger characters in this story, also. That will probably be a book in itself one day. I think perhaps Sarah and her gang aren't the only bunch of grifters in on this whole thing...;-).
Bravo, brother man. You are IT, and you will have been the ultimate patriot when this all gets out in the open once and for all.
Thank you; there aren't words enough.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIcb8MGYDn8
ReplyDeletevideo of Sarah Palin hiking in high heels in the snow a short time before announcing that she was 7 months pregnant.
7:52am
ReplyDeleteHowever, while I think she will announce...I believe it's just a ploy to get that huge cashgrab which would come with her faithful being all amped up about Prezident Waterbra. I do not think she actually intends to follow through. The PAC donation checks will clear and suddenly Trig will have a medical issue or some other manufactured problem which will require her to tearfully explain that she has to put her children first, etc.
--------------------------------------------
Once she announces her candidacy the PAC rules change and all funds collected subsequent to that announcement must be spent on her campaign. No more slush fund for Palin; those bucks would now be for one thing, and one thing only-campaigning.
BAustein @ 7:58--
ReplyDeleteThis is an excellent find, absolutely excellent. Tell me, how does one go about getting a photo w/out the trademark/logo...by buying the photo?
http://www.profimedia.si/picture/sarah-palin-birth-controversy/0092945028/
Warrior89 said...
ReplyDeleteHere is the page with that photographer's (Brian Wallace) other pictures of Sarah.
How about the ones in the red suit? March 13, I think? Red suit, buttoned up, no bump, no nothing.
http://www.profimedia.si/editorial/search/photographer/Brian+Wallace
10:05 AM
___________________________________
Place your cursor over each picture to see info about when it was taken. The "red suit" pictures were taken on March 13th 2007. That makes them a year too early for our purposes.
9:06 & 10:30, please show us ONE source where ANYONE said Trig should not have been born. By saying "all those people" have said this, you imply multiple people; at least 3. Keep in mind just because Sarah said people have said this doesn't make it true. Also, please don't take anything out of context, for example "Trig should not have been born in a clinic. He should have been born in one of the several hospitals bypassed between Texas and Alaska that are equipped for high-risk pregnancies."
ReplyDeleteSurely you can find ONE source from "all those people"? In your search, I think you'll see that most people are more concerned about the risks she took during the "wild ride".
Whoever the mother of Trig is could make a bundle over the next few years selling her story to the tabloids and mainstream media IF she has official birth records, doctors' names and hospital records, which she has a right to acquire.
ReplyDeleteNow, if there are no records, no hospital stay and no doctors in attendance the exposure won't fly.
Any chance all that legal information never got put together because the delivery was in a private home with a midwife? Maybe it got buried with the NICU nurse who burned in her Alaska home. You know the one in the fire that has never been investigated, right around the time $P's church fire occurred? Just sayin'
Ok. Let's stop the rumors. There is zero proof Track is a Menard. You sound silly and that talk does us no good.
ReplyDeleteI've been following Alaska bloggers for almost three years now and I don't recall anyone saying Trig should have been aborted.
ReplyDeleteYes, there are many couples who are faced with a disabled/special needs pregnancy who will make a difficult private personal decision based on their own family, financial & emotional considerations.
IMO the question is: Did $arah, risk the life of her special needs child with the wild ride? IF the Wild Ride is true and IF she did give birth to Trig, which both are questionable, then was the wild ride a deliberate attempt to terminate her pregnancy?
If Trig was adopted privately, why the cover-up? (Fake pregnancy, wild ride) Be open, ooops we are talking $arah Palin, say we welcome Trig into our family through a private adoption. PERIOD!
On the other hand, I'll be shocked if she announces that she WILL run, Independent or GOP, don't believe she will. Cost too much money, too much time and energy, for an epic public failure. She MAY consider 2016 - when she doesn't have to face President Obama. She'd rather spew discourse from the sidelines.
The point of blogs is that you own your space. Thank God for your rant-- and for speaking for us silent thousands who know Palin did not give birth in 2008-- and who know that the birth hoax vaulted a weak, mostly-insane below-average woman to national power.
ReplyDeleteBless you, G.
9:02, if anything, Trig looks eerily like Levi. I don't see Sarah in him at all. AT ALL.
ReplyDeleteAs for the red suit picture, if you look at it in the same frame as the black coat pictures, her arms are thicker in the red and her face is not fat in either. Next put those two photos in the same frame as her Track pregnancy... no way was she pregnant in the later pictures. NO WAY.
ReplyDeleteKeep up the good work, Gryphen. It's good to know that there's still someone in Alaska who is persistently dogging the facts.
ReplyDeleteAnon @8:12
ReplyDeleteI also was pulled in by Celtic Diva when I was trying to find out what this insanity was all about. Consequently I stumbled on Gryphen. What he does is invaluable. Bloggers are the new Fourth Estate.
owever, while I think she will announce...I believe it's just a ploy to get that huge cashgrab which would come with her faithful being all amped up about Prezident Waterbra. I do not think she actually intends to follow through. The PAC donation checks will clear and suddenly Trig will have a medical issue or some other manufactured problem which will require her to tearfully explain that she has to put her children first, etc.
ReplyDelete--------------------------------------------
Once she announces her candidacy the PAC rules change and all funds collected subsequent to that announcement must be spent on her campaign. No more slush fund for Palin; those bucks would now be for one thing, and one thing only-campaigning.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Yeah, but she can still use her campaign funds to live a life of luxury. Private planes, five-star hotel suites, fancy dinners, cases of protein bars, a truckload of taco bell crunch things: she can use her campaign funds for all of that. It's legal. Plus she's already gotten away with using party funds to buy clothes and undies, so there's no reason for her to think she can't do it again. I'm with those who say she'll run as an independent or start her own Tea Party -- it seems like the GOP has been on course for a split since 2009...
This is interesting:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.flickr.com/photos/65883710@N08/5991681276/in/set-72157627192777101/
So someone has been posting links to what must be personal pictures from the Palin clan...who could have access to these pictures other than a Palin or a close friend of a Palin -- makes you wonder: Are the Palins REALLY that pathetic to start a faux flickr account just to counter comments on a blog? That's so sad. The only thing sadder is the name of the account -- Justice for all 2012 -- Really? The grandeur delusions...they astound...
Attention - the photos that BA Austin found have dates. The red suit photos are dated 2007. Not relevant to the preg. hoax.
ReplyDeleteIf she runs, it will be as in Independent so she can skip as many debates as possible.I always posted on here that she is NOT running. But today, I wonder why she quit the bus tour and where's she's been while her base is falling apart. It makes me think she is starting to worry and may realize she's finished if she doesn't.
ReplyDeleteNah, I doubt she's running.
Many of us would like to see more of the voting citizens who do not read the blogs on a daily basis, as many of us do, learn the truth about Palin and babygate. Why not tell them about Floyd Orr's The Palin Matrix? I read it soon after it came out and the whole sordid hoax is explained in detail that anyone can easily grasp, especially some of the deeper motives that seem to be surfacing now. All the theories and all the blogs and their tireless authors, including IM and Gryphen, are in there. Yes, the large book contains a lot of stuff outside what is normally considered the realm of babygate, but I saw the relevance. Babygate is just a small cog in a big, disgusting wheel!
ReplyDeleteKeep up the good work, Gryphen, and rant all you want. We are all here for you!
Your hard work will prevail. Sarah and her lies will be found out.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.flickr.com/photos/65883710@N08/5994808443/in/photostream
ReplyDeleteComparison
Trig looks like Todd and several members of his family.
ReplyDeleteTo Enjay,
ReplyDeleteI never accused any blog readers of saying Trig should have been aborted. I am referencing people I've heard and things I have read. Thanks for assuming though.
@11:42 - Zero Proof that Track is a Menard? Did you read Bailey's book?
ReplyDeleteSo, 9:10, can you please tell us who is Trig's mother? Thanks.
ReplyDelete@12:05 - She has to OPEN A NEW FEDERAL-LEVEL PAC to run. I think she'll find that it will be more closely watched; she cannot hide behind McCain this time. And she cannot use it for luxury items alone. She has to use it on an actual CAMPAIGN, things like TV ads, brochures, etc...Go to fec.gov to find out more.
ReplyDelete'That is stupid. Despite it all, I'm just glad Trig is loved and defended against all the people who say he shouldn't have been born.
ReplyDelete9:06 AM'
Nobody said that shit but you nutbags. you idiots are wishing to come up with something as vile as what you dish out.
Now our insufferable bitch palin said she should get extra credit for not aborting 'her' own child. That something that hypocritical dysfunctional family has to come to terms with not us sane people.
I guess you don't see where all the killing, hatred and stupidity is coming from. peabrain
GoL
Keep on keeping on, Gryphen--at the right time the truth WILL out, leaving the Chosen One to choose a life of vapid reality shows, televangeli$m or infomercials. If she decides to run as an Independent, I don't think there's a possibility of her going the route of George W. "President by Supreme Court" Bush--thank the positive forces. Election shenanigans would be too hideously obvious at that point.
ReplyDeleteWe truly appreciate all you do!
I'm curious as to your 'friends' that persuaded you not to move forward w/the 'babygate' stories?
ReplyDeleteWere any of them Alaskan that also share your blogging notarity and stature? The reason I ask this question is due to the fact, the people I'm referring to, seemed to have avoided your story and you, where once you all seemed to be more strongly connected. Or, was influence pushed on you by the McCain campaign group when Palin was on his ticket?
Looking forward to your blog tomorrow and your rant was OK w/me - cannot imagine the frustration you've been through these past years.
The deceit of the Palin group/family assuredly needs to be disclosed in its entirety.
anon@9:25
ReplyDeleteNope, don't see it. Trig looks like a DS kid. Rarely can you see family resemblances in DS kids. Nice try, but we aren't stupid. Go to the urinal if you want to try and mind fuck people.
Just thought I'd point out that if it turns out Bristol WAS pregnant in 07, that not only makes Mercede Johnston a huge liar, but someone who has no problem telling a truly fabricated tale.
ReplyDeleteThink on that.
Gee, 12:27 is a bundle of fun and kindness. haha typical response.
ReplyDeleteTo 12:20, I did read Bailey's book. Nowhere did the name Curtis Menard come up in regards to Track. HUH???
ReplyDeleteGryphen, I wish to hell YOU would write a book, and tell us all the WHOLE story, not just what you've found out about the Palins but about those "journalists" who refused to cover it. In fact the back story on this might be of more importance to the history of this episode than the facts that will eventually emerge about the "Palin mafia".
ReplyDeleteUm to 12:09, that photo is in Bristol's book.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous @7:17 AM said:
ReplyDelete(I wonder what Faux News will put on the air while all this is going on?)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maybe they'll finally start covering the Murdoch scandal.
Dam Gryph...
ReplyDeleteWhat the hell they feeding those chickens up there?!
Those eggs got you all fired up !!
Keep up the good work!
Venting is good when everyone knows you are venting. And I say you have good reasons to vent. No offence here.
ReplyDeletebtw: I just read William Yoemans' article in Politico, "The Terrorist Tactics of the Tea Party." You will recognize Queen Sarah's tactics in this well-written article. Parallels nicely with yours. Recommended.
"Your hard work will prevail. Sarah and her lies will be found out.
ReplyDelete12:11 PM"
Amen.
And, for example, here is the latest from BoxOffice Mojo, on The Undefeated:
http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=undefeated11.htm
However, as I commented on Politicus a few days back, that does not mean we can ever take our eyes off the viper in the room. And you, Gryph, have been vigilant in keeping the focus on the snake.
We, and the country, owe you a great deal.
Aurora
For a "slow day" you really struck a nerve, G!
ReplyDeleteThere was one person who considered aborting Trig, and it was Sarah Palin, herself. Sarah's favorite speech described how she learned that she was pregnant. She was out of town, nobody knew who she was, she could take care of it. The same thoughts went racing through her head when she learned that she was carrying a baby with Down syndrome, according to her narrative. It was Sarah would considered the alternatives.....choices that she would deny to any other woman. She used that line of reasoning to be applauded by the right to life people. However, if she was going to have that baby, not matter what, then the amniocentesis test, which came with a risk of miscarriage would never have been performed. Sarah should have been happy with anything that she felt that God gave her to handle.
ReplyDeleteLet me say it again clearly. The only person who entertained fleeting thoughts of abortion was Sarah Palin. No one ever suggested that Trig should have been aborted. What many of us do suggest is that he receive proper therapy, that he wears his glasses and hearing aids.
anon 10:26 AM. you have ONE conversation? LMAO! piss off.
ReplyDeleteGryphen, I've been wondering for awhile what your feelings were. I feel the same way about those other bloggers. Haven't bothered with them in over a year. Or longer. I usually check your blog the first thing after I wake up. Before email or coffee even. How the media ignores the obvious its stunning. Thanks for hanging in there! You are appreciated. Every day and, more importantly, quarterly!
ReplyDeleteI wish everyone would just stop the who-looks-like-whom thing. It's all too uncertain and in the eye of the beholder. Let's stick with facts, those are damning enough.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDelete9:02, if anything, Trig looks eerily like Levi. I don't see Sarah in him at all. AT ALL.
11:53 AM
-------------------------------------------
I concur, the older Trig gets the more he resembles Levi. He does share Sarah's "wonky" eye but Bristol has a touch of that going on as well.
It's a choice whether a woman takes any pregnancy to term. A choice only she can make. We would all choose differently, but what is important is that we have the right to choose. Not every woman would be financially able to care for a disabled child, so some would choose to not burden themselves financially with this child. Some would find that they do not have the patience to deal with such a child. Some women would never consider terminating a pregnancy under any circumstance. Once again, what is important is that we have that choice.
ReplyDeletePalin would like to take that choice away from us and declare a christian jihad on our reproductive rights. She and the right would require that every woman give birth to every child conceived, regardless of the desire of the mother or the feelings that the mother may have for the fetus/baby. This would lead to increased infanticide and higher rates of child abuse and neglect. They don't care, they see themselves as merely collecting "brownie" points from their god.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteWell for starters she's smart to not trust oldtime politicial operatives in DC, as no one there is trustworthy. That is proven. Helen Thomas book.
She is definitely unconventional. She only discusses things with Todd and her PAC peeps. It's stupid to think people who communicate with G know the truth about her plans.
But thank you for not buying into the trig is bristols theory. That is stupid. Despite it all, I'm just glad Trig is loved and defended against all the people who say he shouldn't have been born.
9:06 AM
------------------------
Name one person who said Trig should not have been born. Name one. You can't. It never happened. You lie. You are a liar. It's called bearing false witness in the bible. No wonder you are a Palin cultist. Shows your character, doesn't it?
And your queen, Palin? She isn't "unconventional. I said some time ago, and others are picking up on what I said, that she would not run an "unconventional" campaign, she would run cowardly one.
She is too incurious, lazy, uneducated, and unprepared to be able to handle an actual interview with real journalists.
Remember, cowardly, not "unconventional."
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteThanks G man. I can back up all your feelings toward certain people, as I have had similar dealings with them and came away with the same opinion.
I still hate that this is over an innocent child. It can't be overlooked that Trig has never been in danger and receives love daily from his mother, sibs and family. Please don't forget that.
9:10 AM
---------------------------
If you believe Sarah Palin gave birth to Trig, and you believe her cockamamie story about his birth,then how can you say he was never in danger?
She could have killed him with her irresponsible behavior. And she has certainly not put his needs before her own since then.
Whoa, Baby! said..."{Nope, don't see it. Trig looks like a DS kid. Rarely can you see family resemblances in DS kids. Nice try, but we aren't stupid. Go to the urinal if you want to try and mind fuck people."
ReplyDeleteI am the person who wrote that he looks like her and I swear I'm not a troll. I think Sarah Palin is revolting.
However, I also completely disagree with you that it's rare to see family resemblances in DS kids. These children aren't burn victims, for heaven's sake.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeSyGWOo4ZY
ReplyDeletestate of the state 2008.
Okay, I am back & looked this up. The Alaska state of the state was held on January 15th 2008. If this video is of that speech - Sarah is supposed to be 6 months pregnant.
Gryphen, I'm with you all the way. I think that the entire babygate saga is emblematic of what has gone horribly wrong with our political system. How can a simpering buffoon like Palin - someone who faked a pregnancy - be taken seriously by ANYBODY with any measurable cognitive function? This brainless cow is thicker than shit and doesn't smell as good. Not only should the MSM have roasted Palin on a spit for the OBVIOUS lies which swirl throughout her narrative, but they should have done the same to McCain and the GOP for foisting this dithering imbecile upon the nation.
ReplyDeleteI think that many within the press are reluctant to go after this story now because it reflects badly upon their diligence three years ago. When this story breaks, it will be amusing to watch those members of the MSM with egg on their faces try and craft apologia regarding their laziness for not following up on Palin's giant pile of officially sanctioned bullshit.
You go, Gryphen.
Interesting group of photos. I see they were posted in April of this year.
ReplyDeleteGryph you can scream FU all you want. You haven't or didn't give up regardless of the pressure (and presumably a few lost friendships) put on you. In fact I think you are pretty damn brave for even continuing - knowing what goes on in Palin's head. To tell you the truth I am shocked that someone didn't beat the crap out of you or damage your property.
Don't worry this will hopefully end soon and you can forget the Palins. If it weren't that they were so freaking bad for our country she isn't even worth an ounce of your time.
Thanks from the lower 48!
I have to say too that MSM is to blame for the growth of the Baggers in that every word or move of the baggers and Palin was reported.
ReplyDeleteStephanopoulos - how the fuck he worked in a Dem white House I'll never know. He's a wolf in sheep's clothing as he's more bagger than a bagger - add 'stunned & stupid'.
As for CNN - they're all assholes. I wish when Ted Turner was talking about returning -- he should have and fired the whole lot of fucking idiots that call themselves 'journalists or reporters or talking heads' - they're not any of that - they're teleprompter readers and bad ones at that. I call most of them fucking space cadets as for people who work in a supposed news station, should actually know what's going on yet to hear them - my grandkids are more intelligent than those bastards and they get paid. I'm banned from writing to them as they don't like my 'language'. They wrote that I should apologize. My language 'elevated' even more!! I hurt their feelings -- awww. Fucking whimps. Tough titty. If they're that weak, they should fucking get out of the fire. In fact - the station should be shut down as it costs us on our cable bills to have these morons report dy after day about 'balloon boy' etc.
When was this photo taken in comparison to the RNC which showcased a very pregnant and busty Bristol Palin?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.profimedia.si/image/detail/0026901069
To hear Matte Kibbe, head of Freedom Works on Bill Maher's show on Friday. What a Dumb Fucker!!! Add that he's stuck in a time warp with the porkchop sideburns which look fucking ridiculous. He's too stupid to realize he's being used as a front. But what would you expect from a bagger.
ReplyDeleteKibbe is the CEO as Dick Armey thinks he can hide behind him. Armey needs a Lorenna Bobbitt treatment as he's as friggin' stupid. His brain has absorbed too much hair dye!!
Add Hoover's grandaughter on the show too. Too much bleach penetrated her brain. She's a space cadet.
The more I think about it, I hope she does announce. She doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell and will split the crazies in the GOP. The result will be a landslide for President Obama. Then Sarah will be blamed by the GOP for the loss and go away permanently.
ReplyDeleteIt will not be Gryphen or any other blog that brings her down in the end, it will be Sarah herself. If she does not run, she will be spewing from the sidelines for 2 more yrs until her plastic surgery makes her a bigger joke than she is. She will never hang on until 2016, her legion of bots is not large enough to feed her financial needs and she will act more outrageous to solidify them while driving normal people away.
I've only had one child so my experience with pregancy and birth is not extensive. However, I will say that at 5 months I was wearing maternity clothes, and when my water broke, I went immediately to the hospital, as my doctor told me I should. She was either faking it or she was terribly irresponsible on the Wild Ride.
ReplyDeleteI Love ya, but you do get full of yourself sometimes.
ReplyDeleteGryph,
ReplyDeleteThis bears repeating:
"The point of blogs is that you own your space. Thank God for your rant-- and for speaking for us silent thousands who know Palin did not give birth in 2008-- and who know that the birth hoax vaulted a weak, mostly-insane below-average woman to national power."
And, I know of not ONE person who has EVER said Trig should not have been born. Just that SP did NOT give birth to him and has been lying her ass off (about EVERYTHING).
And, I hope a certain AK blogger has Mud all over her face very shortly. I rarely even look at her blog anymore. As for the one with the radio show PPPFFFFTTTTT.....not even worth discussing.
Anon at 1:39, that is NOT a 2008 photo. It appears to have been taken in the gov mansion kitchen, not their house. I'd say it was from Dec 2006 or early 2007.
ReplyDeleteTo Anon at 1:39 pm, who was asking about the date on a picture of the Palin girls.
ReplyDeleteTake a look at this Washington Post Article with pictures .
The first picture in the gallery appears to have been taken on the same day - December 8, 2006 - when the Palins were touring the Governor's Mansion in Juneau. The clothing is identical for all three girls.
Gryphen, I particularly appreciate your pointing out how others' failing to allow Babygate to discredit Sarah, actually allowed her to be used to build up the Teabaggers, and thus resulted in the current debt ceiling fiasco. Babygate DID matter. Palin's hands are unclean, as are the hands of those who, probably unintentionally, helped enable he
ReplyDeleteWhen was this photo taken in comparison to the RNC which showcased a very pregnant and busty Bristol Palin?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.profimedia.si/image/detail/0026901069
The date on the photo says September 1, 2008 (3 days before the convention with the unfortunate dress).
IrishGirl and B Austin...I just got back home, and examined those March 26, 2008 pictures on my laptop and holy shit is right.
ReplyDeleteI enlarged the second picture, lightened it with basic windows picture manager, and you can clearly see the outline of what is obviously a bed pillow stuck in Sarah's pants and under her shirt. The huge wrinkled pants are another exercise in WTF was Sarah thinking? I seriously don't think she sees what we see when she looks in a mirror.
The dumb bitch was too lazy or too deluded to even get a realistic belly until the Gusty picture, huh?
Here, everyone have a look, this is gold:
http://www.profimedia.si/editorial/search/photographer/Brian+Walllace
2nd picture.
Gryphen, is Brian Wallace an Alaskan?
Oh, yeah and I'm with the Anon who posted that the only person who ever mentioned the thought of aborting Trig was Sarah Palin herself. Dumb bot, next time you post a statement like that, you better have a link to back it up. I'm so tired of your retardedness.
dollym100 @10:45 suggested Gryphen turn his investigatvie skills on Michelle Bachman...
ReplyDeleteIt's already being done at a site called
Dump Michelle Bachman
They're not quite up to Gryphen's standards, but it is worth a read.
"I still hate that this is over an innocent child. It can't be overlooked that Trig has never been in danger and receives love daily from his mother, sibs and family. Please don't forget that.
ReplyDelete9:10 AM"
You idiots will never understand will ya?
It's about that insufferable uneducated racist violent bitch using, lying, grifting and cheating her way through life.
Idiot.
GoL
Shine On You Crazy Diamond, G!
ReplyDeleteYou are never alone! We are here, as is your daughter, for you!
<3 Namaste my friend
(You are a much needed sounding board to vent about this moronic no-talent, shit-stirring psych0path, that somehow was let loose on this country like the smoke monster from Lost..)
Nasty, nasty, NASTY BEEoTCH!
From Bristol's book you read how Willow is constantly snooping through things (envelopes on the table to find the ultrasound), Bristol's purse to find 8 positive pregnancy tests, listening in on conversations just to find out what is going on in her house.
ReplyDeleteShe even mentions that Track listened in on the phone when Bristol's friend was talking about Bristol having sex with Levi for the first time.
Bristol can't tell her mother that she pregnant, her friend blurts it out for her. Bristol tries to tell her grandmother (apparantly no one knew before the convention) but can't get the words out, and again, a friend blurts it out over the phone for her.
If this family is "so close" - why do they keep so many secrets from each other that requires spying to find the truth?
The fairybot is out in force today (and, yes, I'm sure Gryphen can confirm that there is only ONE fairybot).
ReplyDeleteThe bottom line is that babygate will come out. Hopefully it will be sooner rather than later. But even if it's not in time to foil Sarah Palin's plans for the white house (don't worry, those plans will be dashed even without the Trig revelation...Sarah is a walking disaster), eventually people will talk. They always do.
Someone in these comment sections is convinced that our resident fairybot is Aunt Heather. Is that a hunch or do you have information supporting your contention? Wouldn't it be delicious if it were true?
ReplyDeleteMaybe it's part of Aunt Heather's responsibilities along with taking care of Trig once Sarah "had" him. After all, Aunt Heather seems to be the go-to-girl for children Sarah has cast out of her house.
anon @ 1:39 pm sez:
ReplyDelete"When was this photo taken in comparison to the RNC which showcased a very pregnant and busty Bristol Palin?
http://www.profimedia.si/image/detail/0026901069"
this photo is from nov or dec 2006, right after she was elected. she and the girls were checking out the governor's mansion, which they hadn't moved into yet. willow still has braces.
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2008-09-01/news/17906249_1_levi-johnston-bristol-palin-sarah-palin
ReplyDeleteBristol's book does make things more confusing - an old article states that Bristol's pregnancy was an open secret in her small town at home.
Yet Bristol writes in her book that no one knew about the pregnancy (page 122) she speaks about seeing the "unapproved message" by her mother being scrolled across the TV set at the convention the day after she was unable to tell her grandmother on the phone (so her mother's friend, Kris grabbed the phone and said "Bristol's pregnant")
How is it that the rest of the town knew what her own grandmother and aunt didn't know --seeing that they are SOOOOOO close.
I was very put off by those 2 bloggers, especially the blonde one at the previous Net Roots Nation, when she was being interviewed on a radio show, and she was so condescending and just out and out RUDE to this woman. I couldn't believe her arrogance. She would not answer any babygate questions and acted like it was beneath her. She actually rolled her eyes at the question. Ever since then, I don't follow her at all, and the other one only once in a while, when I used to follow them daily.
ReplyDeleteYou have every right to rant, Gryphen. I really admire you and appreciate you for all that you do. Howard Cronkite would be proud of you.
One possibility for Sarah's "resemblance" to Trig would be that she had donated eggs for in vitro fertilization (IVF). If she still had her ovaries after her "two-bull" or if egg harvesting was done along with the "two-bull," she could have donated her eggs to be frozen, defrosted, fertilized, and implanted in someone else.
ReplyDeleteAfter fertilization, but before implantation, DS embryos can be reliably identified and either selected for or against (and with egg donors over 40 many DS embryos can be created in this manner.
Having read through the annals of "Quiverfull" and other Dominionist websites, I'm sure there were a bunch of eager and willing young women who would have been delighted to incubate "Queen Esther's" blessing from the Lord.
This might explain the multiple "Trigs" some have alluded to. Many women would have to be impregnated to make sure that one or more of the fetuses made it to term.
Interestingly, the implantation of Trig(s) occurred about the time that GW Bush was hosting a White House convocation of "Snowflake" babies and their moms -- women who had borne children from donated frozen IVF embryos, that were genetically someone else's.
The "snowflake" baby theme was quite popular among the rabid right-to-lifers at the time.
These "snowflake babies" were seen as a rebuke to secular humanists who wanted to use excess donated embryos for stem cell research.
So it is possible, using the scenario above, that Palin might be Trig('s or s') genetic mother.
This scenario would argue a religious-political conspiracy, well-thought out in advance, by people who are one hell of a lot smarter than Palin.
What is clear, from a preponderance of circumstantial evidence, is that Palin did not give birth to any Trig(s) on April 18, 2008, whatever DNA test might eventually show.
Gryphen, Sorry for the multiple comments today but its been too damned hot here in corn country to go out of the house.
ReplyDeleteI just got back from trolling that "other anti-Palin blog" and after reading some of the comments on this post of yours I want to add something to your rant.
FUCK YOU ALL!!
Gryphen is the only source of all things Palin that I trust--period. You can take your supposed investigative genius and shove it.
Gryphen, I want to thank you for what you have done here. I for one am deeply indebted to your committment to truth. You have provided me, and the rest of the world, with more information and a truer picture of Sarah Palin than all others combined. THANK YOU!!
Oh, and i won't be trolling that sorry assed site again...just sayin.
Gryphen, I can not tell you HOW MUCH I enjoyed your FUCK YOU rant. The blocking of the babygate story was harmful to this country and I have always been a bit disgusted with the smugness of those who did it. They view themselves as intelligent, yet can't see something that is as obvious as the nose on their faces.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Anonymous 6:48 AM:
"I believe the bigger story about babygate is what it says about our political system, our national identity, and our press.'
The Tea Party has just had a big win using the very people they are harming and those people probably even at this point don't get it, especially the ones on SS and Medicare.