Saturday, August 27, 2011

New York Times editor compares religious belief to belief that space aliens live among us, and suggests that candidates for President should explain their faith.

Oh I LIKE this guy!

Courtesy of Bill Keller of the NYT:

If a candidate for president said he believed that space aliens dwell among us, would that affect your willingness to vote for him? Personally, I might not disqualify him out of hand; one out of three Americans believe we have had Visitors and, hey, who knows? But I would certainly want to ask a few questions. Like, where does he get his information? Does he talk to the aliens? Do they have an economic plan? This year’s Republican primary season offers us an important opportunity to confront our scruples about the privacy of faith in public life — and to get over them. We have an unusually large number of candidates, including putative front-runners, who belong to churches that are mysterious or suspect to many Americans. Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman are Mormons, a faith that many conservative Christians have been taught is a “cult” and that many others think is just weird. (Huntsman says he is not “overly religious.”) Rick Perry and Michele Bachmann are both affiliated with fervid subsets of evangelical Christianity — and Rick Santorum comes out of the most conservative wing of Catholicism — which has raised concerns about their respect for the separation of church and state, not to mention the separation of fact and fiction. 

I honestly don’t care if Mitt Romney wears Mormon undergarments beneath his Gap skinny jeans, or if he believes that the stories of ancient American prophets were engraved on gold tablets and buried in upstate New York, or that Mormonism’s founding prophet practiced polygamy (which was disavowed by the church in 1890). Every faith has its baggage, and every faith holds beliefs that will seem bizarre to outsiders. I grew up believing that a priest could turn a bread wafer into the actual flesh of Christ. 

But I do want to know if a candidate places fealty to the Bible, the Book of Mormon (the text, not the Broadway musical) or some other authority higher than the Constitution and laws of this country. It matters to me whether a president respects serious science and verifiable history — in short, belongs to what an official in a previous administration once scornfully described as “the reality-based community.” I do care if religious doctrine becomes an excuse to exclude my fellow citizens from the rights and protections our country promises. 

I am sorry but there should not even be any debate about this.  Of COURSE we should know what kind of beliefs might inform the decision making of potentially the most powerful person in the world.

Look at Rick Perry for example.  The man has said numerous times that he would leave the more difficult problems facing his state, and our country, "in God's hands." Is that really the guy we want to have at the helm tasked with steering this great country through the troubles which lie just over the horizon?

Here are the questions that Keller sent to the candidates:

1. Is it fair to question presidential candidates about details of their faith? 
2. Is it fair to question candidates about controversial remarks made by their pastors, mentors, close associates or thinkers whose books they recommend? 
3. (a) Do you agree with those religious leaders who say that America is a “Christian nation” or “Judeo-Christian nation?” (b) What does that mean in practice? 
4. If you encounter a conflict between your faith and the Constitution and laws of the United States, how would you resolve it? Has that happened, in your experience? 
5. (a) Would you have any hesitation about appointing a Muslim to the federal bench? (b) What about an atheist? 
6. Are Mormons Christians, in your view? Should the fact that Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman are Mormons influence how we think of them as candidates? 
7. What do you think of the evangelical Christian movement known as Dominionism and the idea that Christians, and only Christians, should hold dominion over the secular institutions of the earth? 
8. (a) What is your attitude toward the theory of evolution? (b) Do you believe it should be taught in public schools? 
9. Do you believe it is proper for teachers to lead students in prayer in public schools?

I don't know about all of you but I would LOVE to hear the answers to these questions, ESPECIALLY from Bachmann and Perry, and of course Palin if she were ignorant enough to throw her hat into the ring.

Already the recent journalistic focus on Dominionism has started to freak the Evangelicals out a little, as evidenced by this complete denial of its existence by disgraced "Right Hand of God" Ralph Reed.

Hey, in my opinion if they are really secure in their faith, and proud of their religious convictions, they should be proud to discuss them in the public forum.

I mean it's not like they have something to hide, right?

49 comments:

  1. grammy971:26 PM

    Gryphen, I would like to clear up some confusion. Anyone who claims to believe the Bible had better be aware of 1 Peter 2:13: "Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake:"

    Religion is a very different thing from faith. And the public 'christians' who are loudest about their religion do NOT follow the Bible. Things that are different are not the same.

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  2. Anonymous1:39 PM

    Speaking of something to hide, why hasn't Obama given concrete plans for the future of the country he runs yet?

    o/t Gryphen, will you weigh in over at Laura's. There are some outrageous claims and your name is tossed around a bit.

    I"m starting to think we're at a point where too many cooks spoil the broth. There are so many lies, baseless rumors and stupid theories that we're all looking like morons.

    Palin wins when people go on baseless rumors and lies.

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  3. Gasman1:41 PM

    I agree wholeheartedly with Bill Keller. I don't give a fat rat's ass if somebody wants to believe in The Great Radish In The Sky or any other fantastical cosmological nonsense. However, when they want to hold the reigns of national power in their hands, I want to make damn sure that they are not batshit crazy loons who believe that 2000+ year old Middle Eastern mythology is the inerrant literal truth or that some fucking sky wizard speaks directly to them.

    Find me a candidate who's faith prompts them to: fight for social justice for all people; to feed the hungry, heal the sick, clothe the naked, and build homes for the homeless; to seek the end to all wars; to not see their primary goal as the dictatorial imposition of their beliefs over anyone else; see the value and worth of ALL people, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

    Find me that candidate and I don't give a damn what their religion - or lack of one - is.

    As for Ralph Reed, fuck that lying little greasy weasel.

    I've never understood how the fundagelical holier-than-thou types so easily lie to defend their "great truths." If their "truths' are so self evident and have the imprimatur of Jesus Christ backing them up, why do they need to LIE in order to sell them?

    Ralph Reed is just another grifting con who wraps himself up in a flag while clutching a cross in one hand and a bible in the other. The trouble with Reed is that he views both the cross and the bible as weapons.

    He can kiss my liberal ass.

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  4. Anonymous1:56 PM

    Considering the brouhaha over Revered Wright in 2008 the candidates have no excuse not to answer the very reasonable questions.

    Bill

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  5. Anonymous1:57 PM

    How about having them answer these questions:

    What exactly about your faith is it that makes you want to run? Please be very specific. Why were the apostles not instructed to do this, but to pursue the eternal, internal, and invisible kingdom?

    How to you hope to project your faith as a candidate or office-holder? Please be very specific, and detail the laws you would work to implement.

    What is happening in the sphere of government right now that you believe is most threatening to your faith? Please be specific, explaining how your faith, as practiced today, is diminished from previously, as a direct result.

    What is the faith of the advisers you surround yourself with? Please be specific with respect to the faith of your closest advisors.

    Do you currently have any advisors who are atheists, agnostics, Jews, or Muslims? If not, why not?

    Why do you think Christians should take dominion over the following 7 spheres of business, government, media, arts and entertainment, education, religion, and family?

    To what extent to you believe in prayer? If to a complete extent, then why is Christian dominion necessary?

    Christians have been involved actively in politics since they were recruited by Ronald Reagan and Lee Atwater in 1980. Please explain, showing factual examples, how political life, public civility, and family integrity in America have improved as a result.

    Christians have tried to take over school curriculum, sex education, and reading material of America's public schools for several decades. Please show with specific examples how the school systems, teen behavior, grade averages, and drop-out rates have improved as a result.

    Christians have penetrated America's arts and entertainment sphere for several decades. Please cite specific examples of how the arts and media in America have grown more civil, refined, and wholesome as a result.

    Please explain why America's religious sphere has become more biblically illiterate since Christians became actively involved in politics several decades ago, and why American teenagers raised in Christian families are dropping out and falling away from the faith in higher numbers than ever before.

    Please explain why Christians have higher divorce rates, higher illegitimacy rates, higher abortion rates, higher rates of sexually-transmitted diseases, and higher rates of promiscuity than do secular Americans. (Please see multiple studies by George Barna that prove this).

    Please explain why the rates of promiscuity, adultery, homosexuality, and sexual harassment by priests and ministers is at an all-time high. Please explain what your church is doing to reverse this trend.

    There is no Biblical scripture that instructs Christians to force non-Christians to follow the Christian way of life. Why have you and your church chosen to ignore this?

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  6. Olivia2:17 PM

    For some reason, people who are Christian will believe anyone else who says they are Christian even if everything the professed Christian says and does is completely opposite of what a true Christian would do. It gives grifters and charlatans an open door to move in and fleece the flock and mistreat vulnerable people in the name of Christ. This gullibility of Christians allows snaky politicians to convince them that Christ would throw the sick and poor into the street and the unemployed into prison.

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  7. Anonymous2:20 PM

    Ah, Gasman 1:41, it's so-o-o-o worth it to wade through the comments to encounter something you've written.

    Today's especially choice morsels:

    "Find me a candidate who's faith prompts them to: fight for social justice for all people; to feed the hungry, heal the sick, clothe the naked, and build homes for the homeless; to seek the end to all wars; to not see their primary goal as the dictatorial imposition of their beliefs over anyone else; see the value and worth of ALL people, WITHOUT EXCEPTION."

    "As for Ralph Reed, fuck that lying little greasy weasel."

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  8. Anonymous2:42 PM

    Did you hear the topic on NPR this week ?

    Here is the link:

    http://www.npr.org/2011/08/24/139781021/the-evangelicals-engaged-in-spiritual-warfare

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  9. Anonymous2:52 PM

    I've always said there is more evidence that UFOs exist than that God does.

    There is one huge difference between religious beliefs and belief in space aliens, though. People who believe in space aliens have never persecuted anyone who didn't believe in space aliens, or tried to shove their space alien beliefs down anyone's throats.

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  10. Anonymous2:57 PM

    I think I love Bill Keller. Time for all of the Xtians to be called out for what they are. MANY Christians do good for others/the community. These Xtian candidates only do good for themselves and their billionaire friends.

    Believe it or not, a JW was recently telling me that I could call the "heavenly host" space aliens if I would just believe in them. Sounds like a desperation move to me.

    Anyway, THANK YOU Bill Keller!

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  11. Anonymous2:58 PM

    Gasman, your comment voices my concerns and desires exactly. Thank you.

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  12. Anonymous3:01 PM

    1:39 - what kind of "concrete plans" do you want President Obama to announce?

    Do you think he can make dreams come true all by himself?

    Are you going to vote for progressives in 2012 or are you just going to complain. Give our President a Congress that will back up his campaign pledges and he will make them happen.

    He's already accomplished quite a lot of the progressive agenda - he just needs a more progressive-minded Congress. Vote progressive if you want a progressive agenda.

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  13. jkarov3:04 PM

    Jeesh Gasman, you musta had a couple of espresso's on that rant :)

    I have to say I'd agree with most of what you opined, and especially the focus on the "social justice" aspect of your diatribe.

    The LAST THING we need is tet candidate who believes in Bronze age mythology, and thinks we are ruled by spirits.

    Consider, if you will, a woman named Alice Patterson, the Rick Perry acolyte, who's an "apostle" in the same group that supports Palin and Bachmann. She was on stage with Perry during his recent prayer rally in the stadium.
    She believes that on Christians should rule, and is part of the Dominionist movement.

    Patterson is on the record saying that "the Democratic party is controlled by DEMONS"

    http://www­.rightwing­watch.org/­content/pe­rry-prayer­-rally-org­anizer-say­s-democrat­ic-party-c­ontrolled-­demons

    Apparently­, 25% of the Repubs think they have to defeat them left wing democratic commies that are controlled by Baal, Mephistoph­eles, Lilith, and Leviathan.

    We've now regressed all the way back to the 14th century in American politics.

    Next thing you know they'll be advocating dhastity belts for all unmarried girls and women, gays stoned in the public square, church attendance mandatory, and the Pope issuing proclamati­ons of death to heretics.

    Sounds about right for Palin, Perry, Santorum and Bachmann!!

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  14. Anonymous said...
    Speaking of something to hide, why hasn't Obama given concrete plans for the future of the country he runs yet?...
    1:39 PM
    -------------------------
    First, that is President Obama.

    Now, what an incredibly stupid thing to say. You must be a complete and utter moron.

    You have repeated this idiotic statement several times, so I am assuming that this concerns you so much that you have carefully listened to and read transcripts of each and every one of the President's weekly addresses to the nation.

    If you have done so and don't know what the President wants for this country, then you are absolutely and completely too stupid to be allowed out of the house.

    In other words, persistently making statements to the effect that the President is hiding something doesn't reflect well on you. It just exposes you for the bigoted moron that you are.

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  15. Anonymous3:44 PM

    @Gasman--you mean a candidate like Jesus Christ? Who also personifies what Buddhists call a bodhisatva. Who in turn has attributes of the rogue Egyptian pharaoh Akhenatan who so angered the priest class that they destroyed his images. The same Akhenatan who some conspiracy theorists say Obama resembles physically. http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/10/obama_and_akhenaten.html

    Maybe this is all just the Mayans messing with us...

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  16. Anonymous3:50 PM

    there is no religious test for the office of president of the united states.

    we should be sure to remember that.

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  17. Anonymous4:02 PM

    Bring it on! It is about time for people to explain how their faith should be any part of political discourse. I am so offended whenever candidates bring it up. It is a slippery slope and one to be avoided.

    1:39 I think you are accessing the wrong blogs. Time to head back to the Sea of Pee.

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  18. Anonymous4:20 PM

    @1:39: What are you smoking?

    G's name is never tossed around at Laura's. We have too much respect for the work he does.

    On the otherhand, yours, Bristol and Sarah, we toss with glee--

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  19. Anonymous4:26 PM

    Anon at 1:57. Your questions could also be directed to atheists with more conviction.

    After all, for the last few decades they have strived to quote you:

    "tried to take over school curriculum, sex education, and reading material of America's public schools for several decades. Please show with specific examples how the school systems, teen behavior, grade averages, and drop-out rates have improved as a result."

    As a matter of fact, I think that all of your questions would be more aptly directed at atheists. Atheists have actually been more successful in dictating school curriculum. Not to mention imposing their will on stores, malls, etc. by making sure that there is no religious connotation associated with Christmas or Hannukah.

    Mind you, I do not care about the religious beliefs or non-beliefs of anyone. To each their own. People can believe what they want as long as by doing so they do not harm others. I have friends that are either agnostic or atheists and they are still my friends and I do not judge them. It is not my position to judge anyone. However, just as I do not judge them, I ask them not to judge me. As a matter of fact, my husband and I (after reading about sex toys for toddlers) were discussing today that if we had children of school age today, we would probably home school them. BTW my husband used to be a professor at an Ivy league university until he quit to start his own business. So I am sure the education they would receive would be more than adequate, if not superior to what they would get in public school since I also have been awarded a postgraduate degree.

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  20. Anonymous @1:39,
    Is that you PopSixSquish?

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  21. DominionistEscapee4:45 PM

    One of the logical (as opposed to experiential and emotional, which also applied) reasons I saw thru dominionism as a teenager was that exact lack of transparency. At one point, we were told by an authority figure, "God placed me above you, so questioning me means you are questioning God, which is a sin." My thought was, What are you so afraid of? I think if God exists, God can handle my questions. And if you think what you're teaching me is the truth, you should have confidence that it can stand up under scrutiny.

    Not to mention--his whole logic in that statement is the kind that religious and cult leaders have used for centuries to justify abuse. And nothing erodes faith in God faster than being on the receiving end of that sort of twisted logic.

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  22. Gryphen, some of your fans at Laura's are wondering if you might have written the so-called anon anon comments as a way to reveal things you've learned but can't source enough to be comfortable posting.

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  23. My two pennies worth of thoughts on this subject:

    1) You have to be really strong spiritually for that spirituality to survive organized religion; and,

    2) Churches that politically advise their congregation from the pulpit need to start paying income tax.

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  24. Anonymous5:02 PM

    God is a psychological fact.

    An experience of God can't be "proved."

    However, those who profess a knowlege of God should evidence it in their actions. If Christian, they should exemplify the love and charity and forgiveness Christ espoused.
    If Buddhist...ditto, and so forth.

    You know a tree by its fruit. Many atheists act more "Christian" than many adherents of the various Christian sects.

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  25. Beldar Amen Conehead5:21 PM

    Most. Important. Post. Ever.

    Zeus bless you, Gryphen.

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  26. Anonymous5:32 PM

    What Gasman said to the zillionth power! While there's nothing in the constitution that refers to religion as a criteria for presidency, The way people running for office have been behaving and parading their professions of faith, i think it's damn time that we hold everyone accountable, no matter what belief system or non belief system one belongs to.


    Thanks, Gasman, you're comments are often my favorites to read!

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  27. Anonymous5:37 PM

    Devout Christians wouldn't have an issue with high taxes if government was smaller and the money for Dept of Education, FEMA and others were given to church groups to administer

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  28. Anonymous5:46 PM

    They hide under the hood of religion,hoping that the public will give them a pass and gives cover for questions and issues they do not wish to answer. Yet they use every un christian deed and action to getelected.

    It is good that this conversation is taking place and let us not stop.

    So christian Sarah plans to talk about the lies of Obama on Sept.3. Does she have a copy of Dunn's book? Pre empt her and do a post on her lies and how she profits from them.

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  29. EX Cat5:46 PM

    This is not new, but it bears repeating. "Science flew humans to the moon, religion flew them into buildings". That' all I have.

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  30. The only question I would ask a christian candidate is "What do you think of the historical Crusades and do you feel that the current (federally funded) Crusade against Muslims is an appropriate way to spend out tax dollars?"

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  31. Anonymous5:58 PM

    All of you that are talking about Laura's blog and speculating about the comments regarding who this crazy "anon" person might be should take a deeeeppp breath and realize that Laura is new to the game and her blog is just the latest in a long line that gives voice to the speculators and the "sleuthers" that are spending all of their waking hours trying to still parse out where Trig came from.

    There are quite a few dedicated folks, presumably without steady employment, that spend all of their time still trying to debunk Babygate.

    I've stopped beating that horse myself, I know in my heart from photo evidence that Sarah Palin was never pregnant when she should have been prior to Trig's birth. Anyone with eyes can discern this fact from the photo evidence. Palin lied about when Trig was born or from whom he was born. Until someone steps up with an actual first-hand account of what transpired it's like beating a dead horse. But people like to speculate and there have always been blogs where they can spin their speculations and discuss them. Each time a blog moves on or goes away there is a new one to take its place. JoeMc was getting sick of the crazy talk and now that group has moved over to their new sympathetic home, Laura Novak.

    Laura in time will realize that she too is risking her journalistic integrity by letting the crazy contingent run wild on her blog and will call for a moratorium on the crazy speculation, or not. It's up to her, but these people need a home to go to each day to rehash what they've been saying for the last 3.5 years.

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  32. Anonymous @4:26,
    You been watching O'Reilly too much.

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  33. Anonymous6:38 PM

    I wish we could have had that conversation with Rev. Wright....we condemned him so quickly... I will always regret that. He was a respected sailor, a decorated Marine..he worked at Walter Reed, we should have given him that opportunity. Things went downhill quickly, and once Fox embellishes and even invents information....by implying events....it is too late, sad to say.

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  34. Anonymous6:39 PM

    Just want to send my good luck vibes to all my brothers and sisters along the east coast!

    We've had tons of rain this month, an earthquake last week, and now Irene.

    We just had four huge trees topple over, luckily they didn't damage the cars or house, but it's gonna be an interesting night!


    Thanks Gryphen, for everything you do! Always a pleasure to visit your blog!

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  35. Anonymous6:55 PM

    anon at 1.57 - home schooling is a cop out - why on earth do you think you could do a better job than trained & experienced teachers - presumably you would "home school" to ensure your belief systems and only your belief systems are imposed onto your children. Do you have any idea of the work required to provide adequate home schooling in all the areas covered by real schools. How are your maths, physics and chemistry skills? How widely do you read? Any good at English grammar? Foreign languages? world history (or is there no world outside of the USA for your children to learn about?)


    Home schooling provides the method to dumb down the population and forget the science, history and values which have taken centuries to develop - sad - but so is most of the general discourse since the dumb and dumber discovered they had a black President.

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  36. Anonymous7:01 PM

    this is from anon at 4:26pm:

    " It is not my position to judge anyone. However, just as I do not judge them, I ask them not to judge me. As a matter of fact, my husband and I (after reading about sex toys for toddlers) were discussing today that if we had children of school age today, we would probably home school them."


    Now, I'm wondering where these christian folks got their information on "sex toys for toddlers". Did it come from this story on this website?

    http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0899/jar.html

    It took me a second to realize that this site is a parody (if you wiki landover baptist you'll find out that it is a parody website) but really I think that the faithful might be taken in by this website, just as some conservatives still feel like Stephen Colbert is one of them.

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  37. Anonymous7:24 PM

    anon@558: worried, are we?

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  38. Anonymous7:28 PM

    @6:55 What I've discovered about home-schooled students when they get to college is that they don't get along well with other students; they're kind of aloof. (I've had quite a few home schooled through some nearby church group.) They also don't do well thinking outside of the box, although they're really good at following directions to a "t". Critical thinking, not so much.

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  39. Anonymous7:37 PM

    It is not fearmongering, paranoia, or religious bigotry to try to understand their goals and strategies. In fact, it’s irresponsible not to.

    http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/julieingersoll/5021/the_pundits_and_the_dominionists/

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  40. Uh, Griff? Had Senator Obama (D-IL) admitted his knowledge of my presence (he knows) he would never have been elected... so I think maybe you need back off of this one.

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  41. Anonymous10:18 PM

    Whew. Chippin' away at the Constitutional foundation.

    I DON'T NEED to know what a politician's faith is, IF everyone is honest. IF everyone can respect the Establishment Clause and understand its purpose. IF decisions will not be based on the process and protocol and rites of religion, but only on presumed universal ethics.

    ~~~~

    To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

    Gentlemen

    The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

    Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion, practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

    I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association assurances of my high respect & esteem.


    (signed) Thomas Jefferson
    Jan.1.1802.

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  42. WakeUpAmerica11:18 PM

    @6:55 You can't paint all home schooled students with the same brush. I have been a public school teacher for 35 years, and I have seen quite a few home-schooled students. There are many who roam the streets during the day and do no school work whatsoever. There are those who have a very inadequate religious curriculum like Abekka. Then there are those who pool their resources and do an outstanding job. One of my former students was home-schooled from 8th grade on. She had very average scores on state tests, but loved to learn. She earned a regents scholarship after being home-schooled. After getting her BS in biochemistry, she won a full-ride doctoral scholarship to Stanford. She is one of many well-educated home-schooled kids from our community.

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  43. Anonymous3:19 AM

    "They also don't do well thinking outside of the box, although they're really good at following directions to a "t". "

    Most of the home schooled kids where I live are catatonic when faced with any school room experience. They shut down, turn off, and tune out.

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  44. Anonymous4:33 AM

    @5:37 PM
    "Devout Christians wouldn't have an issue with high taxes if government was smaller and the money for Dept of Education, FEMA and others were given to church groups to administer"

    So you wouldn't have a problem with higher taxes as long as the money was given to you and people like you? Why so you could decide who got help and who didn't based on their religious and political beliefs? So only christians would get aid or education? So you could hold out a piece of bread to starving person and only give it to them if they convert? Christ would be so ashamed of of so called christians like you.

    As Bill Maher said, to paraphrase, when you follow none of Christ's teachings, you should really find another name for yourselves.

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  45. @The Nasty Liberal. Your comment sounds like nonsense. And I'm confident Obama doesn't read this blog.

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  46. @Anonymous@5:58. If you aren't interested in the conversation at Laura's, don't go there. Not your problem if others are "beating a dead horse." No basis for your statement her followers spend all their waking hours on where Trig came from.

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  47. Anonymous2:19 PM

    I have to share this. When my daughter as in high school (she graduated in 1997) I had bought her a tee shirt with that picture on it and under it said "pull my finger". She was sent home from school for wearing it. The principal said it was "offensive".

    Do I need to tell you I live in the bible belt?

    That man went on to be the administrator of a church run school (which is where he should have always been). Several years ago his son went to prison for sexually molesting his wife's severely retarded teen age sister who ended up pg. Nice "christian values" he learned from his father? But my daughter's tee shirt offended him? LOL

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  48. hauksdottir6:46 PM

    I don't trust Bill Keller one single bit. He enabled and protected JudyJudyJudy and readily helped Bush/Cheney lead us into an illegal war of occupation. Pah!

    That evidence of mobile labs, yellowcake, etc., was planted and published thanks to him!

    Even his statement about encountering and "getting over" our scruples is suspect. Scruples aren't like measles!!! As a species, we have survived by recognizing that something is different. We can then examine it for danger, edibility, or tolerance and acceptance.

    However, we must never overcome and dismantle that alarm button in the back of the brain. Otherwise, propaganda of the most egregious sort will never be questioned, but simply and totally absorbed as timeless truth.

    We have always been at war....

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  49. Anonymous12:01 AM

    The new witch hunt.....Courtesy of Pastor Mike “Brothers and Sisters , I have been seriously considering forming a ( Christian ) grassroots type of organization to be named “The Christian National Registry of Atheists” or something similar . I mean , think about it . There are already National Registrys for convicted sex offenders , ex-convicts , terrorist cells , hate groups like the KKK , skinheads , radical Islamists , etc.. “

    Pastor Mike Blog

    So I guess I am just as bad as a sex offender....so much for separation of church and state. We must defeat them in 2012 for I fear what will happen if we lose.

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Don't feed the trolls!
It just goes directly to their thighs.