The Romneys declared a loss of $77,000 on their 2010 tax returns for the share in the care and feeding of Rafalca, which Mrs. Romney owns with Mr. Ebeling’s wife, Amy, and a family friend, Beth Meyers.
The average wage earner in America makes about $46,326.00 a year, and THEIR hobby is often to look for a second, or even third job to help support their families.
But hey there's nothing wrong with being wealthy (And Mitt and Ann Romney have never been anything BUT wealthy), unless of course you are trying to convince voters that you understand what they are going through and empathize with their plight.
The problem with Romney is not only THIS perception of snobbishness during a time when the 99% have found their voice, but also that it adds to an already disgruntled feeling among Americans that Romney bought and cheated his way into the GOP nomination.
And this point is being made dramatically clear by a lawsuit filed by 160 Republican delegates, suing the Republican party for the right NOT to have to cast their vote for Mitt Romney during the 2012 convention in Tampa, Florida.
Ow! That's gotta hurt!
Of course you know what the Romney's will say to this right?
"Let them eat cake."
Update: It looks like the Romney's horse is going to the Olympics:
Ann Romney’s dressage horse, Rafalca, and her trainer, Jan Ebeling, earned a place on the U.S. Olympic Equestrian team on Saturday, cementing the Romney family’s already deep ties to the Olympic games. The official announcement is expected to come Sunday by the U.S. Equestrian Federation.
I referred to Ann Romney's involvement in dressage as a "hobby" which I think is exactly what it appears to be. However if it is considered a business investment, perhaps that allows for the tax deduction.
I am not an expert on taxes by any means, but something about that simply does not sound right to me. And if the horses are now involved in the Olympics how does THAT effect their status as a business expense?
Do we have any tax experts who can explain this?
Anne Rmoney cares more about her horse than the poor kids in America.
ReplyDeleteHer "rich and entitled" attitude is captured in that photo...
Am I the only accountant here who wonders how da fuck they get a deduction for hobby expenses in the first place?
ReplyDeleteI am appalled at it.
DeleteNot an accountant, but I was wondering that very thing too Beldar.
DeleteI guess if you're wealthy enough all manner of tricks are possible when you do your taxes.
And she is 1/3 owner? How much did the other two owners deduct on their taxes? Also, too, I thought she used her horses for therapy reasons. She is no different than a NASCAR sponsor.
DeleteAlso depends on the rules of the state in which they file. That state is..........?
DeleteWakeUpAmerica, this is worse that NASCAR. NASCAR is a business that tries to get sponsors to help pay for the expenses. The better they do in racing, the more sponsors they will have and the higher they will pay for the exposure. Ann's sport, especially in an Olympic sport, doesn't have sponsors to my knowledge. So I have to agree with Conehead, how can they deduct a hobby from their taxes? Voters need to know this type of information so they can take it into consideration as a tax loophole, and the fact Romney is taking advantage of it. Norquest no doubt would approve this deduction since it involves closing a loophole that he's against because he views closing a loophole is a tax increase. The man and the Republicans who support him by signing his contract our very shallow thinkers not capable of looking beyond their term in office.
DeleteDurham,
DeleteThey do have some sponsors, but the horse world services a small number of the world population, so it isn't that lucrative. Saddle-makers will sponsor a rider so that their saddles are show-cased. Sometimes feed companies will donate feed so they can claim their product is the food of champions. Also, tack stores donate as well. The most famous one, Miller's, has traditionally outfitted all the riders to the tune of thousands of dollars for each rider. Also, sometimes clients and training facilities will sponsor a rider as well.
ATTENTION EVERYONE; It appears Bristol did not show up for an interview about her new show on Huckleberry's radio show today. He doesn't sound too pleased about it . Again, just another example of Bristol's immaturity and narcissistic personality. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, as the often repeated saying goes. Or maybe this is an indication the show will not be aired and she doesn't want that to be known yet, or until it's announced by the producer.
DeleteBeldar, I am guessing you're not much of an accountant. Who uses 'da' for the word 'the?'
DeleteBeldar J Conehead, PHD is a PHD, if he uses the term "da", it's perfectly acceptable.
DeleteThat's da trouble with dis country, no one respects da title a person goed ta school ta get anymore.
i have a friend that does not have horses except as a hobby and writes them off as a business expense every year to the tune of 20,000 dollars ( she has 14 ) come on irs start auditing these people
DeleteWhy would they get tax deductions for a hobby?
ReplyDeleteMy guess is that they purchased the horse as an "investment." Since you are allowed to deduct losses on an investment, that's why the horse upkeep is considered a loss. It is kind of amazing that the $77K represents only 1/3 of the total expenses for the animal.
DeleteIt looks like a loophole under these circumstances, but to a serious horse breeder whose livelihood depends on his stock, their racing performance, potential stud fees, etc. it makes more sense that such an investment gets legitimate deductions. Oh, hell, who am I kidding? Odds are there aren't any horse breeders who actually need the money to live on.
No problem here with Ann Romney and the FDA non approved benefit of dressage as adjunct treatment for MS. Personally, I find that vacations in the mountains reduce my diagnosed anxiety. The question is may people take an IRS approved health care deduction for such activities? I suspect not.
DeleteTo the idiot who mentions "to a serious horse breeder whose livelihood depends on his stock, their racing performance, potential stud fees, etc. it makes more sense that such an investment gets legitimate deductions". Well dear, if it was not for people like Ann Romney and many other equine lovers, these breeders would not make much money selling their horses would they? Who do you think breeders sell to? Breeders of dressage and jumpers horses spend and make money the same way as breeders of race horses. A breeder rarely breeds to keep a horse and race it. He/she breeds to sell as a prospect/ or to produce a line of winners. It cost a lot to produce a talented offspring and it cost more to keep it and train it. So you need people who can afford it!!!! That business of buying and training expensive show horses contributes to billions of dollars in spendings and an enormous amount of jobs. It takes a whole team to show one horse. People who drive trucks and trailers, who sell feed, who cleans stalls, who train, veterinarians, chiropractors, braiders, tack shop owners, food caterers and snack shop owners, property owners, manure removal co, makers of tools, fly sprays system, shampoos, supplements, vitamins, clothing related industries, fly masks, blankets, grounds workers at show, grooms, judges, JUST TO NAME A FEW!!!!!!!! Do not talk about a world you do not know about and judge it from the outside. It HEPLS this country go on more than you know. Go google it!
DeleteIt's wonderful that this sport/ hobby contributes to the economy. That does not change the fact that calling it a business and writing off expenses is absurd. What exactly is the business??? And if we can figure that out and can reasonably expect that the expenses will be $200k plus, then we have to assume that they are writing off the entire enterprise and essentially having their fun for free rather than contributing that money to the pot like they and everyone else making money are expected to. Perhaps they would not have the horse if the deductions were not available and therefor not inject that money into the economy but I say horseshit because if Ann wanted her horsey so bad she would have gotten it regardless and the rest of us wouldn't be picking up the slack.
DeleteBear in mind that this deduction is presumably only for a couple of years and then they have to pay up - right? Not of mittins gets his mitts on the presidency and he and his pals fix the tax code so he can make that little incovenience go away...
How can the Romneys claim a deduction for a hobby? Businesses have deductions, hobbies don't.
ReplyDeleteHobbies are people too, my friend.
DeleteDon't you know? It's Mitt and Ann's turn to be President and FLOTUS 'cause Ann said so.
Hobby is his business. Next he is going to tow his many Cadillacs with his hobby
DeleteFor those wondering about the deduction (as I am) - If they are running their horses as a business, they can deduct expenses, but they are expected to be making a profit after a few years. Also, as they have donated the horse to the Olympic team for this competition cycle, the expenses are deductible. The odd thing is that their share seems to be 1/3. The care (grooms), board and feed, training, and vet fees should not be as high as $212,000 and the Olympic Committee should be picking up the cost if he is donated (temporarily). There is little to no prize money involved in Dressage competition, unless things have changed drastically since I competed. Something smells fishy here.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the info, WakeUp. Spouse and I ran into something similar re hobby vs business. We had hoped to make a business out of the hobby but it just wasn't practical.
DeleteSo cool that you competed in Dressage! One of my favorite things to do on New Year's Day is to watch the Lipizzaner horses perform.
Also, too, way OT but who's not pregnant here?
http://www.adn.com/2008/08/29/v-gallery/509850/sarah-palin-biography.html#id=509980&view=large_view
40 years ago, when I had the time and energy to sit on the edges of the hunter/jumper competitions (it's called grooming and such for everybody else to pay for it), a season's costs for a single rider/horse could easily run $40,000. When you add in the cost of transatlantic shipping for the horse and retinue, $200,000 is probably not out of the ballpark.
DeleteWhat's fishy is that you all believe everything you read!
DeleteOnly the very wealthy can manage to do this. I find it especially interesting that we have seen no video footage of Ann Romney, decked out in her dressage finery, riding her horse. That is because most Americans would be surprised at how formal and expensive it is to keep and ride dressage horses.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm not surprised, WakeUpAmerica, that she has "donated" use of the horse for the Olympics. The Romneys must have learned a thing or two when Mittens was put in charge of the Salt Lake City Olympics some years ago.
You are darned right it's expensive. I looked into it with my horse and just for starters it's major bucks for the lessons, clothes, boots, finery, hat, bridle, saddles, vet costs, feed, board, trailer, truck, hotels, motels, meals... I could go on and on. And it isn't like you can keep your pony in the house like a show dog. Oh no, you need a stable, hay, grain, supplements, bedding, turn out, clothes for the horse (you have to keep them clipped in the winter or they sweat too much), boots (to prevent injury to their hooves), stable boy (maybe the best part), grooming tools, the farrier costs. Yeah I know all about it and the higher you go, the more the stuff costs. All totaled, the cheapest part is the cost of the horse (even if you paid 6 figures).
DeleteHigh end dressage (3rd level and above) has always been very expensive. We used to compete on American thoroughbreds, but the judges turned their nose down on them in favor of fancy European breeds (very expensive and very different breeding structure). I had a friend who made the Olympics many years ago on a thoroughbred and the team wanted the horse and not her. She refused and did make the team eventually. It's bizarre, expensive,and very competive. Romney's deductions sound out of bounds though, unless she boards, trains, etc. at the most expensive range of expenses.
DeleteThere actually kids in 4-h who dream of making the dressage circuit. She should be helping them.
Ok, I keep backyard horses - two. After the initial cos of the barn, which ran @ $35, and is part of the improvements on my property, like the house and garage, basic horse maintenance is @ $3000 per year, excluding vet bills and transport.
DeleteA business? Ya gotta be kidding. Rafalca is a mare. If she is training, she isn't producing (little Rafalcas.) How the HECK can this be a business?
My sister is a horse trainer and trains hunter,jumper and dressage horses. She runs a very small stable as a business and deducts expenses off of her taxes.
DeleteSeveral years ago, my sister rode in the Equestrian Olympic Pretrials with a horse that she had that was setting jumping records in many of the regional shows she attended. My sister placed 5th out of 60 in her class Olympic pretrial class. There were two different classes and only 5 people from the top ten would get to ride in the Olympics. It turned out that only the wealthiest of the riders were chosen because, these were the people that could provide the $250,000.00 horses. My sister's horse was probably worth $5,000.00 if she had sold it and that was after she put all of the training into it.
The Equestrian Olympics is not about finding the best and most athletic to ride, it is about finding the person with the most money who can donate expensive horses and pay the cost of shipping these horses.
I am a teacher and a young girl in my 6th grade class shipped her dressage horse to a horseshow from Anchorage,Alaska to California at the cost of $12,000.00. She told me that the cost of boarding her horse was about $900.00 a month. This is more then the cost of many apartments.
It is absurd that I have other children in my class who live in homeless shelters and the cost of maintaining this horse could have housed one of these families.
I have a relative (by marriage) who does the dressage circuit. It's for rich women who spend an obscene amount of cash and give each other ribbons and trophies. Except for the "rich" part, it's the same as child beauty pageants.
ReplyDeleteCan I get tax deductions for my dog?
ReplyDeleteOh, I have a bunch of squirrels, rabbits, moles, flying squirrels, ants, spiders, and other critters. Can I get deductions for those?
Shoot. One of their horses is worth more than my home, cars, bank accounts, and all that I own.
ReplyDeleteDoes the horse ride on the roof of the car?
ReplyDeleteOh, no. I'm sure the horse has an air conditioned trailer Bigger and nicer than most NCY apartments.
DeleteBarbara Bush says that is a very tacky photo of Anne ...
ReplyDeleteAnne should know you are suppose to wear pearls when seeing your dancing horse.
She looks like she doesn't even like or connect with the animal, which is no great surprise.
Delete@8:18
DeleteActually, horses have thick boney heads and are known for smacking you unexpectedly. It isn't out of meanness; it's just what they do sometimes. It's probably not fair to say that Ann doesn't connect or like the horse. Also, she may have been trying to show off the horse for photos rather than casually holding him. What I want to know is, if the Romneys are just like me, why won't I be at the London Olympics? Oh yeah, can't afford it.
I watched a video of the horse dancing and have to say it is a far better dancer than Birstol.
ReplyDeleteBWAAAHAHAHA! GOOD ONE!
DeleteCan I borrow that for a Twitter? That's the funniest Bristol joke I've read in a long time.
DeleteLove it!!!
DeleteNot only a better dancer, but I'll bet the mare is probably a better fuck than Bristle, also, too.
Delete---Gino Paoletti, et al.
Sorry to be crude, folks, but it's time for us ex-boyfriends get OUR opinions out there.
I'm surprised that Ann (Rich) Romney hasn't deducted the horse expenses as medical expenses as well. She claims that horseback riding relieves stress and has put her MS in remission.
ReplyDeleteMy advice to Ann would be that campaigning with Mitt is stressful and harmful to her health. And, she should think twice before wearing another $990. silk t-shirt to an interview in order to shake her wooden husband and tell us what a cutup he is.
I think that the more obnoxious part of Romney's finances is what you don't see-- how much money he has sheltered in overseas accounts so he doesn't have to pay taxes on it.
There are limitations on deductions in Section 183 of the Internal Revenue Code. No deductions are allowed if the activity is not engaged in for profit by an individual or an S corporation. There is a presumption that if the income exceeds the deductions in 3 out of 5 consecutive years, then the activity is engaged in for profit.
ReplyDeleteNo one I have ever heard of has made one dime from riding dressage unless they are a trainer or coach or getting paid to be an advertising billboard (haven't seen any NASCAR like stickers on horses.... yet).
DeleteThey need to compete to get students and Ann Rmoney does not train anything. Maybe her co-owner does but then she would be the only one allowed to claim said deduction.
I would rather have a president that rode with his dog on the roof than one that ate his dog as pres. Obama wrote about in his book. BOOM!
ReplyDeleteI bet that when Sarah Palin was in Hong Kong, she ate dog, monkey brains, and snake meat, standard food in a Chinese banquet. Obama did not eat his pet dog. He was a child and he was served what ever the people in Indonesia ate. I can guess that you are the kind of person who enjoys hamburgers and hot dogs... pink slime. You have no idea what is ground up and put in those franks and that patty of ground stuff-- left over intestines filled with the stuff that goes through the intestines, hooves, bones, brains.
DeleteHe didn't eat his dog. FAIL!
DeleteKeep trying though...your pathetic attempts at humor are funny in their own right.
I guess when you were a small child you told your parents what they could serve you for meals. You are an @ss!!
DeleteAnonymous8:02 AM
DeleteI would rather have a president that rode with his dog on the roof than one that ate his dog as pres. Obama wrote about in his book. BOOM!
___________________________________________
I didn't know Meh "rode with his dog on the roof" of the car?? Do you have a link to this story? Because the story I read is that Meh's DOG rode on the roof of the car and Meh DROVE the car...sooooo....if this was your attempt at a joke....ummm....MAJOR FAIL!
Hello Bristles. Still have no education I see.
DeleteWell, that tells us a lot about you, doesn't it? Selfish cruelty to a pet by a grown, wealthy man is okay with you, but a child eating what is given him in a foreign culture blackballs him for life? Wow, can you be any more bigoted?
DeleteMeat is meat, unless you are a vegetarian and have NEVER eaten an animal you are no different than anyone else that has eaten meat.
DeleteMoose, deer, elk, caribou, buffalo, bison( yes buffalo and bison are 2 very different species)cattle, porcupine, armadillo, gator, squirrel, beaver, bear etc have long been eaten for meat alog with DOG. In fact Tawd Palins own tribe is well known for survivng on dog meat in lean winters.
40+ years ago, there was a mini scandal involving horse meat being sold under the guise as beef to the public schools in New Mexico. Using your logic, If I ever ran for public office, My opponent could vilify and ridicule me for eating a companion animal. Of course I was a child at the time and just ate what was put in front of me like a good little girl was taught to. It makes me sick to think I ate a horse, but I didn't exactly have a say so in it. I really doubt President Obama had a say so in if he ate dog. He ate what was put in front of him like most children do.
DeleteTriple Moon
Oooooh, Nancy, you sure schooled us! We tasted your mighty nightstick and are forever humbled.
DeleteTodd Palin's Family was raised on DOG MEAT during the Winters, or does Sarah Palin forget about that? The Wasilla TRAILER TRASH PALINS
Deletehave shown the World just how UNEDUCATED they ALL are. The young men in Wasilla know all about the LAKE LUCILLE BORDELLO of FREE SEX.
Great replies all ! I would be willng to bet that Anonymous 8:02 watches fox News at least 16 hours a day !
Delete@GinaM 844
Delete"I didn't know Meh "rode with his dog on the roof" of the car??"
And this is why I will always internet love you, Gina.
True story: back in the mid 80's I briefly rode on the professional BDX (Bicycle Dressage) circuit. I loved the glory, the pageantry, the tight fitting costumes, the big money, the famous BDX Babes (oh, the stories I could tell about that!), and the exotic travel. This was at the height of the craze when every city had a BDX stadium and every Fortune 500 corporation sponsored at least 10 riders. But one day, a little child sitting next to the press box loudly asked his father "Daddy, why are those silly men dancing with their bicycles?". The announcer foolishly repeated what he'd heard over the loudspeaker system which was also simulcast on Pay-Per-View Cable to almost a billion subscribers and within a week, the whole BDX empire fell apart like a cheap derailleur. It was devastating. I still have my trophies and my memories, tho. But, yeah, Mittens is awful.
"BOOM" Was that your head exploding? What does dog have to do with this thread, Maroon? Here's your sign?
Delete*GinaM screaming in laughter at Beldar's "BDX (Bicycle Dressage)" days*
DeleteBWHAHAHAHA....*SNICKER....*SNORT...WHEW...andTHIS is why I internet love you back Baby!
Keep your day job, you ain't no Jon Stewart.
Deleteshh, 11:07!
DeleteThe IM Defense Trolls will shout you down for your TROLL-NESS!
You are not even "allowed" to disagree with the, um, humor of some here.
And you, Troll @11:48 AM, evidently don't know the difference between disagreement and Troll @11:07's stupidity. which was pointed out accurately by the "humorists" here.
DeleteUm, is that you Bristol, um?
DeleteThank you for proving my point, 12:31.
DeleteYou are intolerant and very boring.
Go Beldar! Bike Ballet er Dressage lmao!
DeleteTo the original poster, go Boom yourself!
Different cultures have different "tastes" in their source of animal protein. Look up "offal" and see what many cultures eat. Even here, the FDA has an "acceptable amount of rat feces/hair" requirements for hot dogs. Many parts of europe eat frog and rabbit.
We eat ham, it's the pig's rear end, yet we gag if someone eats pig ears, snout, brains, etc.
I wish this were FB so I could like every single one of these comments. I honestly have nothing against rich people. More power to you, I hope to be there some day. But the difference between my rich and Romney's rich, is I will get there paying for my own education while working 2 jobs and getting my PhD. Then, I will pay my taxes in my US bank accounts and not shelter my money offshores. Sure, I may never have billions of dollars, but I'd rather be well off and a good citizen, than majorly rich and be cheating my own citizens. They are both pathetic excuses for human beings. I thought in 08 when Palin was thinking of running that there could be no worse thing that her as Pres...now I'm contemplating whether Mittens is worse...
DeleteIn my state (New Mexico), we are having a crisis of horses being starved to death or set loose (and dying. A domestictaed horse can not fend for it's self) because the owners can no longer afford the cost of hay. The horse rescue groups are no longer taking any more horses because they have no room and no money. There have been several high profile stories about horses living in horrendous conditions. Think how much that $77,000 the Romney's got as a tax deduction could be used to care for these neglected horses.
ReplyDeleteTriple Moon
Surely you jest. The Romneys only claim to have Dressage horses, not the riff raff being turned loose in the US. They do niot LOVE their horses, they are a business expense. Mrs. Romney was asked how many she had and replied "Even my husband does not know how many!!" They do not form attachments to living creatures, seems their kids are not even too close unless they are needed. Much like the Palins. We know now why he refuses to reveal his previous tax forms, he has a lot to hide.
DeleteSame here in Texas, too many abandoned and abused horses to even count. Left to starve and die of thirst. I am currently fostering 12 and no one gives me a tax deduction for those or my working horses on our ranch.
DeleteVery sad triple moon!! I just visited NM for a week. I love it there! The poverty isn't obvious to a lot of visitors but we did a lot of visiting of rural areas, and I was surprised how so many live. Not shocked, but it was a big reminder to me. I just hope everyone gets out the vote this year...
DeleteI love horses and wish I had the room for one. But I can't afford it either. This country is already run by big corps and multi-millionaires.
Unfortunately, we have morons like the one above who commented on President Obama. They are soooo racist and stupid to know they vote against their own interests. It's pathetic.
It is very sad and happens in KY. This is one of the unspoken downsides to the US closing all the slaughterhouses for horses. That's where most of them would have ended up instead of being abandoned and allowed to starve to death. (I am a vegetarian).
DeleteAnd 8:51, you can tell from the above photo she has no feelings for her horse, which ever one that is...
@9:03
DeleteI don't know about Texas, but in CA , you could set yourself up as a tax-exempt rescue organization. Have you inquired?
That is a sad reality in Washington, Oregon, and California as well. The Chinese are buying all our alfalfa and driving up the price of all hay to incredible heights. Bastards
DeleteWake up , I probably could. I haven't looked into it at all. I just somehow started getting asked to take in fosters yrs ago from other organizations that did not have the money or the space to care for more horses. I run a construction business, a couple of small businesses that we started with, and a working cattle ranch. While it may give us some sort of deduction, we would be hard pressed to find time or energy to ask for donations.
DeleteWe have willingly taken on this responsibility and I didn't mean for my post to come off as whiney, but it just really chaps my Ass ( sorry for the foul language) when the uber rich never ever seem to have to pay for ANYTHING in their pampered lives.
Little Rabbit
Little Rabbit,
DeleteAgain, not positive, but I think that if you get the tax-exempt status you can at least deduct the allowable amount for charitable donations from your taxes. You are also then eligible for grants. Yeah there are some. The status also usually allows you to buy feed at cost or at least tax free. Sometimes a feed company will sponsor you and donate feed. Lots of possibilities.
Little Rabbit,
DeleteYou also might be able to deduct some property tax and property expenses like fences and shelter etc if you were tax exempt. Again, I only know what you can do in CA. I suspect you are missing an opportunity. Also, if you or a partner could train some of the animals for a therapeutic riding program, you would be in great shape and providing a great service. I know someone who got a grant to provide a therapy program for abused adults and children. Those grants can be state, federal, or private from foundations.
Little Rabbit,
DeleteI hope you see this, but I will look for you on a fresh thread to give you the info again. I found this at Dover Saddlery's site.
http://www.doversaddlery.com/equine-rescue/a/312/
They donate to horse rescues. I really think you could improve things greatly for yourself if you would get your tax-exempt status.
I don't understand how you 'donate' your horse to the Olympics. Did Michael Phelps' mom 'donate' him to the Olympics? If owning the horse is a business investment, how does it earn money? And I can understand, if it's a business investment, deducting the cost of care and feeding - but why was it deducted as a loss? What did they lose? Good thing I'm not a tax accountant because none of this makes sense to me. Hope someone can clarify for us.
ReplyDeleteAnd I agree with the comment at 7:30, the offshore hidden taxes are what's really important.
Donating your horse is a requirement if it is part of the Olympic team. I think it has to do with liability and also the tax-deductible status of the team. That enables the team to pay and deduct all the expenses of the horses. I do know for a fact that it is done as I spent the summer at the training center with my trainer who was on the Olympic team that year.
DeleteI understand it's a temporary donation, anyway.
DeleteKajo,
DeleteExactly right. It's for the time the horse is officially on the team. That also enables the team coach or whoever to make the decision to euthanize the horse should it go ballistic in flight to another country.
So somebody who loses over $77,000 for a hobby thinks he knows how to fix the economy!?!?!
ReplyDeleteGreat observation! ROFLMAO
DeleteBang on! But just think of the tax deduction America could get if Rmoney was doing/fiddling the books.
DeleteAs a horse owner ( 17 and currently fostering 12 more) I can certainly teach Unemployed Annie to care for her horse for much less. I find it just incredible that I am not allowed to take ANY deductions for actual working horses on my cattle ranch , yet this entitled rich bitch can deduct her "hobby" at a rate that seems very inflated.
ReplyDeletei literally feel sick the more I read about this couple.
DeleteIsn't it a business for you though? I'm just surprised you can't deduct the costs of the working horses.
DeleteI do love your comment and I admire you for fostering the horses. I just wondered about that.
ANON at 9:07
DeleteNo, for some reason we are not allowed as an incorporated cattle ranch ( grass fed and drug free Red Angus) to deduct our working horses, we can deduct atv's and other vehicles( but I find it can stress some animals in the herding process) but not cutting horses. And if anyone thinks training or buying a trained cutting horse is cheap they are sadly mistaken) Strange huh?! And we can't even deduct the cost of the care for the fosters since we are not donating it to a non profit, that expense comes out of our wallets.
Thank goodness that our DIL is a large animal vet and she does much of our basic care for free.
Breaking news: 2 Alaska State Troopers shot and killed
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/gunman-alaska-kills-shooting-2-state-troopers-authorities-article-1.1097652
Ummm...thanks for the link...but the story is the gunman was killed and two troopers were shot...the troopers will be fine but the gunman killed himself.
DeleteThanks Gina, you're right. Don't know how I missed that. read it too quick, I guess. All i could think about was wondering if Schaefer Cox's group might be involved.
DeleteAny ties to the milita?
DeleteCute photo of President Obama as a child one Halloween:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.voice4america.com/articles/2012/02/13/obama-halloween.html
I'm no tax expert but do have a small business. In my state it's very simple to get a business license. It's also very simple to get a tax ID from the IRS.
ReplyDeleteAs mentioned though, a business is supposed to show a profit every so often, in order to not be considered a hobby, which is NOT eligible for tax deductions.
My business also grew from a hobby. However I actually produce and sell a product. I take deductions for production costs and pay taxes on profits.
I can see how a horse related hobby would be expensive.
I don't see it would qualify as a business for tax purposes. What is Ann Romney selling in order to earn profits from it? Other than horseshit of course.
Well, her husband is the one peddling horse manure, only he calls it "political speech"
DeleteAccording to the Romney system of tax deductions, I think that I'll take a trip to Europe, Asia and South America to write a travel article. They might pay me $500. for the travel article and in return, I'll deduct $5,000. in expenses. Yes, the Romney system of accounting is a real money-maker-- for the rich people who can afford to spend spend spend and then claim that spending as a deduction.
ReplyDeleteDressage = horse abuse.
ReplyDeleteDid Ann learn to abuse animals from Mitt or the other way around?
"Dressage = horse abuse"
DeleteYou will have to explain that one to me. You will find extremists and abusers anywhere, but the principles of dressage encourage anything but abuse. I think you are misinformed.
Any early spring you can see every single dressage movement performed randomly by horses at play. The movements are all natural. The trained horse performing those movements on command CHEERFULLY is a think of beauty.
DeleteDo horses naturally preform "ballet" in the wild? Yeah thought so. Debate over.
DeleteYes, wild horses and domestic horses playing freely in their fields do every single movement of "dressage". Call it "ballet", call it "horsing around"... whatever you want. You can NEVER detract from the natural beauty of horses. And that is exactly what you see in dressage.
DeleteWhen you perform dressage for a judge, you get a written explanation of your performance. "Resisting" means that the horse is not performing willingly. When you see that comment on your test, you go back to square one. Because fundamentally what you want is a horse freely doing natural movements under the weight and at the command of the rider.
A horse walking calmly down a trail is doing (gasp, say it softly) dressage work. So is the police horse, the working ranch horse, the theraputic riding horse, the carriage horse, the pulling horse, ... yup, that's dressage!
11:08
DeleteSaying debate over, doesn't make your argument true. The poster before you has it right. You seem to have an issue about dressage, but I don't think you really understand it.
Heart breaking Triple Moon! A number of years ago I flew to NM to rescue a wonderful Morgan gelding named Whiskey. The owners had shipped him from Washington to be part of a rental string. He had too much intelligence and spirit and protested by rubbing his riders against cactus. I brought him back home and he was my dressage trainer.
DeleteI agree that current dressage practices can be cruel and abusive. Classical dressage taught by the likes of Walter Zettl (one of Canada's Olympic coaches a few years back) is beautiful and strengthens the relationship and communication between horse and rider. He speaks about harmony and oneness; working with the nature of the horse instead of against it. I was very lucky to have attended one of his last clinics in the US and took lessons from one of his students. It wasn't about attaining higher level Piaffe or forcing collection; it was about rhythm and forward movement which most horses will do if riders can stay correct and balanced with a giving hand... sorry I'm an addict. The rest may be attainable with an athletic horse and with patient training once the foundations are solid. Whiskey had the basics, but he was an old man. His mind was willing and careful training kept him fit and active.
I've been wondering about Ann Romney's relationship with her horses and this image tells me all I need to know. I think the portrait is supposed to show her looking into the eye of this magnificent animal. But her stance, the angle of her head and her expression, along with the death grip on the reins at the horses chin are all about control. She is controlling his head by engaging the bit running through his mouth. It's like grabbing a dog by a choke chain, or a child by the shirt collar. You can see the tension in his mouth and neck. This doesn't look like a willing partnership to me. I know I'm reading a lot into this one image, but to me it looks like another Romney fail.
Where did you find that picture of Ann with Bristol?
ReplyDeleteOne of the things God hates is lofty eyes.
ReplyDeleteJust sayin...
Seems like in this case the responsibility lies with the tax payer to prove whether the animals are a business or a hobby. Business expenses and losses can be deducted, however, hobby business expense and loss cannot. I found this informative article re: this subject.
ReplyDeletehttp://asci.uvm.edu/equine/law/horselaw/hobby.htm
you can't declare expenses for a hobby. it's likely that they've incorporated an organization or business to operate this hobby, or ann is considered "self employed" on their taxes as someone who does something having to do with horses. there is prize money and other rewards involved in dressage contests, and they would have to claim that prize money/rewards as income - so surely they will deduct the expenses that they paid in order to "earn" that income.
ReplyDeleteAgain, you have to show a profit or break even at some point. The three owners may have incorporated or syndicated the mare; although, I have only see this done for stallions where offspring may be valuable. A stallion can service many mares and produce numerous offspring whereas a mare can only have one a year. So that doesn't seem likely. If the Romney's are breeding dressage horses for sale, the expenses could be deducted. I haven't seen the financial statement with this info, but it would be interesting to see what income these deductions were deducted from.
DeleteIf the animal is breedable, then the owners can count him as a business investment and the shows, ect. he participates in serve to promote him for future "business". If not, then his worth is considerably less; however, Olympic caliber dressage horses are hideously expensive.
ReplyDeleteSince they have donated the animal to be part of the Olympic team, they can then take a percentage of the expenses as a write-off.
However, these kinds of "investments" are commonly abused as tax dodges. It would be interesting to see a detailed audit of this "hobby".
So, this isn't usually done for mares because they can only have one baby per year. But maybe. I do not believe your second paragraph is true. Any owners whose horses are used on the Olympic team, whether the owners are the riders or not, have to sign a release "donating" the horse to the team during the competition time. The ownership reverts back to the owner after the competition when the horses are returned. The team covers all expenses during that time.
DeleteThe only other thing that I can think of is if they are deducting their original investment in the horse as a tax-deductible donation, but that wouldn't make sense as they would have to declare it as income when the horse came back to them.
Being as wealthy as the Romney families are today - you can be assured they are writing off as much as possible on their tax returns, plus paying very little in taxes.
DeleteWe don't want this guy near the White House! He compares his business career to making him more qualified to run our government than President Obama!
The government and private enterprise are NOT run the same. Plus, he wants us in more wars and the United States of American cannot afford it and the citizens do NOT want it!
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Doesn't seem right. I can't deduct my horses or their expenses - which are formidable.
ReplyDeleteLOL! Tell me about it! We currently have 17 working horses and 12 fosters that we pay ALL expenses for!
DeleteI think Ann has M.S. and uses the horse as therapy.
ReplyDeleteThat would make it a medical expense.
Of course if *I* were in charge of the I.R.S. I'd say no way.
This is just another way the über wealthy use their money to get around paying their fair share of taxes.
Sorry, no. I ride almost daily and I have MS. But of course I ride to check out the cattle herd, herd horses, herd cattle, check fence lines...oh yeah...I have a job even though I have MS.
Delete.I have a job even though I have MS.
Delete~~~~~~~~~~``
According to the Rmoneys, it's your *choice* to work.
Not to mention the fact that Mitt feels you *need* the DIGNITY of a job, you know, because
1) You Don't have dignity if you *don't* work at a paying job WHERE YOU CAN BE FIRED,
2) *UNLESS* you are Mrs. Queen Rmoney.
Ain't it grand?
If Ann Rmoney had a basic riding horse and hacked around a home arena or went trail-riding in britches and t-shirts, that would be therapy. I doubt she even rides her six-figure horse; he's being donated for the Olympics.
DeleteThe Romneys declared a loss of $77,000 on their 2010 taxes?
ReplyDeleteThe sad news is if the Romney horse $77,000 tax loss was income, then that horse would of made too much money to qualify for monthly welfare money, food stamps, housing assistance or medical help in my state.
Every aspect of world-class horses is VERY expensive. Consequently while the riders are "amateurs", the HORSES are allowed to earn huge amounts of money.
ReplyDeleteHa! You're funny. The horses don't earn much in money unless you're talking about breeding fees. The money in dressage comes primarily from selling horses with talent or training. The "amateurs" are allowed to earn money training and giving clinics without jepordizing their status.
DeleteMUNICH, Germany, May. 18–The Exquis World Dressage Masters with its €100,000 (US$135,550) of prize money for each of four events moves to Munich this week with the hottest competition expected from Germans Isabell Werth and Ulla Salzgeber.
DeleteWell then, I guess that has changed since I was last involved. Who knew? I guess that's a good thing. Maybe not as that continues to encourage the elitism in the sport instead of encouraging riders to progress regardless of their horses' backgrounds and price tags.
DeleteI have a rescue mutt from the shelter, can I have a $77,000 tax write off too?
ReplyDeleteWhat's good for the Romneys should be good for the average Americans too!
What's good for the Romneys should be good for the average Americans too!
Delete~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If Rmoney gets elected, how many stones will each American have to carry in order to build the Mormon Pyramids for our Pharoahs?
I want to see Sarah Palin's tax returns. I want to see if she gets a $77,000 tax credit for Todd since Sarah's relationship with Todd is all business and their businesses has failed.
ReplyDeletePALIN FAILED BUSINESSES:
Palin Business Marriage - Todd and Sarah both went elsewhere for companionship
Palin Prostitution Business - Due to disgruntled employee Shailey Tripp, Todd was forced to dissolve the family business
Palin Car Wash - State of Alaska forcibly dissolved business for not paying fees
Palin Daycare - Todd and Sarah failed to maintain household and raised a bunch of uneducated delinquents who are not eligible for higher education
SarahPAC - Family bank has recently spent more money than they took in and may have to cancel their yearly SarahPAC sponsored Palin-Heath family vacations.
Alaska Trust Fund - State of Alaska forcibly made the crooked scam business shut down
Amazing! The Palins has a lot of write offs!
When you buy the young horse (or breed it), nobody can tell that this will be an Olympic level horse. So many people have to raise many horses and train them, injury free, for YEARS. Not only money (lots and lots of it) but a tremendous amount of LUCK is involved. Then you have to find a rider that will bring out the best in the horse.
ReplyDeleteThat level of the horse world is almost entirely for the ultra-wealthy. And naturally, they have arranged the tax code to suit themselves.
I suspect that this Romney tax deduction is the tiniest bit of all the fiddling they have done over the years to give Ann Romney her horse fix. Could they do it WITHOUT ripping off the rest of us lowly tax-payers? You betcha! But for the Romneys of this world stealing money from people who actually work for a living is the biggest, best sport of them all.
Sorry, but I don't see why this should warrant a tax deduction.
DeleteIt's a very expensive hobby. Not a business.
And the taxpayers should not have to subsidize it. (Because for every dollar the Rmoney's don't pay, someone else has to make up the difference.)
You hit the nail on the head. This isn't about not being able to afford to pay for this. This is about the rich avoiding every last penny they can and hoarding them for their own greed.
Job creators my ass.
I love how some writers are starting to refer to dressage as "horse ballet." If that doesn't sound like degenerate elitism at a time when others are losing homes and jobs, then I don't know what does. "Let them eat brioche," Marie-Antoinette Romney.
ReplyDeleteI didn't mean to disparage dressage, but only to say that most of those in the 99% who are life-and-death struggling to stay afloat are prob not that familiar with the fine points of dressage, not able to appreciate any of it in their current dire straits, nor very sympathetic to it being tax-deductible (even though that's legal).
DeleteI just shake my head and wonder why the Romneys didn't put the dressage on hold for now, leave the $900 blouses in the closet, refrain from mentioning the 2 Cadillacs, -- oh, wait, we do know why not: CLUELESS!
From wiki about dressage: "Its fundamental purpose is to develop, through standardized progressive training methods, a horse's natural athletic ability and willingness to perform, thereby maximizing its potential as a riding horse."
DeleteBelieve it or not, when you see a child riding around in their lesson, that child is "dressing" the horse. The word simply means to school (teach) the horse. There is nothing elitist about bonding with an animal. Furthermore an untrained horse is a danger to themselves and others.
The techniques used in dressage are ancient. And they are just as valid today. Seen a police horse lately? Sometimes their rider has the horse executing movements that would delight an Olympic judge.
It is dressage competition itself that is expensive not the actual method for training. You have definition exactly right. Unfortunately, most dressage riders see competition as the goal instead of the training of the rider and horse to become one joyfully.
Delete@10:40-
DeleteYou know *VERY* well there is a WORLD of difference between
-someone "riding/training" a horse, which may technically be called "dressing"
-and the *COSTLY* hobby of Dressage, which as a poster above wrote, STARTS at SIX FIGURES.
It has obviously elevated *well-past* simple "horse ballet".
Just stop it.
Ha, ha. "STARTS at SIX FIGURES"... chuckle, there a ton of little 4H-ers out there learning and competing at dressage that do not have anything like six figures.
DeleteJust stop it.
LOL. I did dressage for about 10 years. It didn't run to six figures for the whole decade. I rode for enjoyment (nowhere near Olympic quality--either myself or my horse). If Ann Romney is riding for relaxation to help her MS, as she claims, she has no need of multiple horses or even very expensive horses; a reasonably-coordinated one will do. The whole "gotta have it for MS" is just another Romney lie.
DeleteAgain, anyone can do dressage with any horse. It is a training method with specific goals. It is the competition with all its ancillary costs that is expensive. To be competitive, most people think they need a 6 figure (cost) horse. However, one of our top dressage horses, Keen, was found in a backyard and he is a thorobred. That was years ago, but currently there is a rider who obtains and trains BLM mustangs. She too has been very successful at dressage competitions.
DeletePlease, please, 12:02 and 12:16 you are both right. This is one of my all time favorite IM posts; so good to hear about all the equestrians that comment here. Thanks for all your comments WakeUpAmerica. I'd love to know more about the BLM Mustang trainer. Seriously considering this for my next partner. I drove over to Burns last year and made some contacts. Sorry Gryphen so O/T... Romneys suck!
DeleteSandiKayn
If the rich can be job creators then dressage can be horse ballet.
DeleteThe Repub1%can'ts have their nerve complaining about the word play. They invented death tax and death panels. It's about time the gander started getting goosed.
Knowing Bristol Palin, I'm sure she'll find a way to write off her runaway dog Charlie as a loss and get a tax credit for him.
ReplyDeleteIf Bristol is not approved by the federal government as a business loss, I'm sure Bristol has no problems getting state approval by her mom's buddy Alaska Governor Parnell.
Hell if Parnell approved Life's A Tripp for Sarah's film tax credit, then Parnell can surely get the dog approved as a loss.
The dog was an investment for Bristol's reality show.
Brings up a good question, now that Bristol Palin has her reality show approved, does this mean Bristol gets to write off her clothes, make up, nanny care, transportation, housing, furniture, insurance and everything else as a business expense because she uses them for her show?
DeleteYou telling me that Bristol not only gets money from the State of Alaska's film tax credit but Bristol also writes off her everyday living expenses from her income taxes as a business expense because of her show?
That's just as good as running a PAC scam.
That's the Palins for ya!
The funny part of this, is that Olympic dressage is an inexpensive endeavor compared with world-class carriage driving which involves truly astronomical amounts of money.
ReplyDelete@10:16
DeleteRandom remark.
Uh oh. Do I dare call foul on NYTimes writer, Trip Gabriel?
ReplyDeleteI think he's WRONG about the $77,000 loss related to dressage. I just looked through the Romney tax return. The horse business is held by Rob Rom Enterprises, LLC. It's treated as a partnership for tax purposes. The Romney's share of the business loss was $77,731, HOWEVER, the Romney's tax return only claimed a TAX LOSS of $49.00. The remaining $77,682 was calculated as an unallowed passive loss.
Repeat:
Romney's tax loss for the horse business was FORTY-NINE dollars ($49.00)
Can someone else double-check to see if there's another $77,000 deduction somewhere else that I missed. The Rob Rom Enterprises activity shows on Schedule E, Form 8582 (regular and AMT), and Supplement to Sch. E (tax return page 151).
TRIP Gabriel?
DeleteI had never heard that name before the Paylins; I guess they're never original.
Trip is a common nickname in some circles for the 3rd generation of sons given the same name; for example, John Sr., John Jr., and if he has a son named John, the family might call the boy Trip. Not Tripp. That's just stupid Palin illiteracy.
DeleteTaking a 2nd look at the sourced NYTimes piece:
ReplyDelete"The Romneys declared a loss of $77,000 on their 2010 tax returns for the share in the care and feeding of Rafalca, which Mrs. Romney owns with Mr. Ebeling’s wife, Amy, and a family friend, Beth Meyers."
Technically, it's okay. The Romney's did 'declare' a loss of (approximately) $77,000 - their share of the business loss. So, I don't expect the NYTimes to necessarily issue a correction. The problem is in an interpretation that 'declare' equals 'tax deduction'. It does not. I wrote above that the actual tax deduction was only $49.00.
Hope this helps clarify my other comment.
And what was the "loss"? Does the horse have one less leg now?
DeleteOT -- The Beefinator stood up Mike Huckabee on his radio show.
ReplyDeletehttp://jstsay.in/00066m
Awww Poor Mikey! He was all ready to kiss her ass. Instead she get's lectured to on "reality". Love the "We Eat Therefore We Hunt" soundbite he chose from Grizzled Grandma!
DeleteJust one more comment about this...and not meaning to beat a dead horse...
ReplyDeleteThe image text, "...Ann Romney's TAX DEDUCTIONS for her dressage horse exceeded the average American median income" is wrong.
The image would get across the message of extravagance and be accurate if it were reworded to something like 'Ann Romney's BUSINESS LOSS for her dressage...'.
What a crazy post this turned out to be! The original premise turns out to be false, and everyone takes sides on the meaning of "dressage". Let's get back to Bristol!
DeleteHere's a video that shows the therapeutic value a Rich Woman With MS has on a horse. (The closest video I could find of "Ann on Horse" Rmoney.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opBYZJfatE0
Was not the name of Hitler's dressage horse Raflaca?
ReplyDeleteHitler's horse was named Nordlicht. (Northern light)
Deletecountryroadsmagazine.com/Profiles-People-Places/the-hunt-for-hitlers-horse/Page-1
Another One Percenter who gets to game the system while we who actually work for our money get to pay full taxes....
ReplyDeleteThe Romneys' declared $77,000 loss only led to a $50 deduction from their taxable income. If, and only if, the horse makes money in future years, the Romneys can deduct the $77,000 loss from those future profits.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/06/19/clarifying_the_record_on_mitt_romney_s_77_000_losses
So, I have 2 children. I have invested a lot of money in their growth and development. I expect a return on that investment of a good job that provides a living wage for them and a trip to Europe for me. Why don't I get to deduct all the food, clothes, housing, etc that I have spent on my investment? The logic appears to be the same.
ReplyDeletethe deduction was because this horse is used by ann romney primarily as therapy for her multiple sclerosis. If you want to vilify someone for taking a deduction on a therapeutic treatment go ahead, but that just makes you look as bad as FOX attacking anyone on disability
ReplyDeleteA tax deduction like this can be taken only if the dressage horse is truly a BUSINESS, which means, per IRS rules, that some profit needs to derive from the business (though not necessarily in every tax year). The IRS frequently investigates sham "businesses" like this, and declares them to be not a business but a hobby. I highly doubt that prize money from dressage competitions is enough to cover $77,000 in expeneses, which means the Romneys are committing tax fraud by trying to claim their hobby as a business.
ReplyDeleteare we jealous?
ReplyDeletenew investment with partners for an amount which could be as high as 8 Billion euros
ReplyDeleteAND their will to build a third theme park. This extension of the agreement will be signed this tuesday afternoon. rent in london