While more than nine in 10 Americans would vote for a presidential candidate who is black, a woman, Catholic, Hispanic, or Jewish, significantly smaller percentages would vote for one who is an atheist (54%) or Muslim (58%). Americans' willingness to vote for a Mormon (80%) or gay or lesbian (68%) candidate falls between these two extremes.
Now I am not lumping all Muslims into one group, but let's face it THAT is a religious group of which many Americans are VERY suspicious, and one that has become synonymous with terrorist bombings including the largest terrorist attack on American soil, and they are STILL more likely to take up residence in the Oval Office than the guy (or girl) who simply says that there is not enough evidence to convince them of the existence of any god, gods, or goddesses.
That is incredible to me.
What exactly is it about being an individual who demands evidence before accepting the existence of something which makes THAT person the least trustworthy, and least likely to be given the opportunity to hold such a high office?
Seriously, I want to know.
P.S. And please don't anybody try to twist this into a slam against Muslims, I have no more, or less, respect for them than I do the adherents of ANY religious group. Except perhaps Scientologists, because you know...really?
Why do people distrust Atheists?
ReplyDeleteBecause we are seen as blighted aliens who don't seem to be snowed by
sky fairies, the acquiring of virgins after death, magic underwear, holy water and the host of other things organized religions offer or threaten their followers with in lieu of explaining that there are natural reasons for cataclysmic and everyday events.
I haven't taken issue with organized religion until the last few years when I've noticed some are a bit angry and suspicious of US these days. What up with that? As a non collective group we tend to care about the earth, give to charity, not want senseless wars---We just don't get up on some sabbath day, leave our homes and bow down, kneel or raise our hands to some deity. I personally garden, volunteer at a senior center and Habitat for Humanity and always stop for ducklings crossing the road.
Of course I do have an aunt who calls herself a devout christian who has never lifted a finger for anyone--who thinks I'm going to hell. Go figure.
Guess I'll never be president.
Oh yeah---There are an incredible amount of god fearing people (horrible phrase) who think because atheists worship no god they must worship the devil or have dark and menacing plans for society. It would be funny if it all wasn't so tragic and imbecilic.
DeleteI've heard that, too: "You don't worship God? Then you must worship Satan/YOURSELF!!". (I don't know which one they fear more.) There seem to be a lot of theists out there who can't grasp the idea that some people simple do not worship any made-up deity.
DeleteFear and ignorance and being different.
ReplyDeleteThey fear us because we may be right and they have been brainwashed into fearing that god will destroy them or send them to Hell if they even question.
Ignorance because they haven't a clue what we actually stand for and seldom ask - and don't believe us when we tell them.
And being different? MANKIND has feared the different all through it's history until enough accept the different and it is no longer different.
Of the three I believe history has proven that different is the most dangerous. Jesus was "different". Look what happened to him.
I think Scientologists would score lower than atheists.
ReplyDeleteWhere politics are concerned, it’s all just talk anyway.
Ron and Nancy didn’t seem particularly Christian; she even used fortune tellers.
When George Jr. finally found himself in a church pew, he didn’t have money for the collection plate, and a very disgruntled George Sr. had to cover for him.
Levi should sue himself for defaming himself.
ReplyDeleteAny questions?
Yes--I have a question. Why are you on this thread about atheism?
DeleteYeah.
DeleteHow.stupid.can.you.be?
Yes Sarah I have a question. Where are the birth certificates for the 2 Trig;s?
DeleteYour comment seems awfully O/T. You must be hitting the Bailey's quite early this morning.
Explain women's intuition, or a mother knowing something is wrong with her child?
DeleteExplain love.
Show me scientific evidence that proves LOVE is a real thing.
And every time atheists say"sky fairies", etc., they know they are being incredibly insulting, but they do not care.
Then they blow all hot air about how they KNOW how to be good and kind!
Yeah, but they can't even manage it in a simple post. Lovely.
@Anon 658A
DeleteI know for a fact that Zeus has a sense of humor and nearly always chuckles amiably when He hears an atheist say "sky fairies".
...sky fairies, sky fairies, sky fairies...
And a huge pagan thank-you to Gryphen (if that's really his name) for providing a forum where reason, true decency and reality take precedence over fear, fantasy, dogma and antiquated, unnecessary theology.
Okay, so maybe it's wrong to refer to the various gods that people have believed in through history as sky fairies or invisible friends (my personal favorite), but at least atheists don't show up at your front door in pairs claiming they know what you should believe. It's only when idiots want to pollute our public education system with myths and superstitions that you see the atheists speak out in favor of reason and evidence.
DeleteAnon5:58am: there is scientific (biological, in fact) proof of love, the cascade of hormones that occurs in conjunction with behavioral exchanges. Perhaps you should tone down the venom and try to understand; the information is out there if only you open your eyes. Mother's intuition? Like any other intuition: observation of subtle "tells". Watch the tv show 'The Mentalist' or 'Psych' or Mythbusters for a debunking of ESP and psychic powers.
Delete5:18
DeleteYeah, I got a question.Why are you so fascinated with Levi? (beside the obvious)
One of my favourite You-tubes regarding religion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16R4aeYBXww
ReplyDeleteLooking at this list leaves me skeptical about the honesty of the survey participants. Notice it says 96% would vote for a black candidate? Well, certainly Obama's election has brought out the crazies in a number much larger than the 4$ who say they wouldn't vote for a black candidate. And I suspect the figures are "off" in other categories as well.
ReplyDeleteAs for myself, I'll vote for anybody in those categories. As long as they're a Democrat. (That's the most horrible part of politics in the last 20 years - how polarised I'VE become.)
When the Republican party seems locked in a never-ceasing race to be more and more terrible, there's really no other choice.
DeleteI agree, I find the 96% very difficult to believe, which makes all the other percentages suspect.
DeleteThere's also the possibility that a lot of ignoramuses out there do not even know what "atheist" means and said no just to be safe or because the word sounds weird
ReplyDeleteScientologists -- and Mormons. See Andrew Sullivan's excellent posting in the last few week about cult religions.
ReplyDeleteSorry, there's freedom of religion but not of secretive, exclusionary, expensive cults -- especially those who believe in aliens and extra-terrestrial life.
Very good article Gryphen, and it is a profound travesty to think that in 21st century America, an atheist is thought to be the lowest of all life forms
ReplyDeleteIt's not just white prejudice and supremacy that the Teaparty is defined by: it's also Christian supremacy.
Many of the ultra right hard core believe in theocracy, and that America should be governed only by Christians, in spite of what the Constitution says in Article 6, paragraph 3
"All executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."
If the founders of our nation put that into our most important legal document, how can ANYONE POSSIBLY make a case for saying we must have a Christian candidate? How can anyone even bring up someone's religion as an issue if the founders wrote that as a key tenet of our foundation?
I had a prolonged "discussion" with a theocrat online once, and he insisted that the founders didn't really mean what they wrote in Article 6/P3.
He said the founders thought that just applied to the various Christian sects, and not to anyone else, because every person was ASSUMED to be Christian.
The best example of a militant and savagely prejudiced theocrat that I know of is Brian Fischer of the AFA
He actually said that American citizens who are Muslim should not have the same rights as Christians.
http://www.afa.net/Blogs/BlogPost.aspx?id=2147504696
As an aside I doubt this poll is really accurate since it's been clear for three years that the number of people who hate the idea of a black President is about 15-18% - about the same number who still love Sara - and there is a correlation between those two numbers. Still in all- it is disheartening to see that atheists are the low person on the totem pole. Perhaps this is due to envy and a fear that if they were to get to know an atheist or two they might lose their own belief in God. I've noted that the most reactive people to my spiritual beliefs are the ones who seem to be desperately clinging to their right wing fundie teachings. What is interesting isn't how they ignore me as much as how they keep coming back and testing the water. Christians!! (and you know who you are - the insecure ones who run to church not from belief but from fear) - Free yourself and come over the the side where the sun shines and you can live guilt free.
ReplyDeleteI was raised an atheist (I'm 53) and so was my husband. I can remember when I was in the third grade my friends told my teacher (a mormon) that I said I didn't believe in god. To this day I can still see the look of pure revulsion she gave me. I had a big mouth and over the years took a lot of grief for my beliefs.
ReplyDeleteLater, I learned to keep the fact that I was an athiest under my hat. When I raised my children, I told them to just say that they didn't go to church.
My daughter now 22, had people tell her in high school that they hated athiests. One of her best friends growing up told her that "she could never be friends with an athiest", little did she know.
But recently I think things are changing. The plethora of books by Sam Harris and others defending atheism has emboldened non-believers. More people are openly admitting to being atheists.
One of my twin boys even tried to start an atheists club at school.
Now, I realize that this is California, but I think a C change is coming for non-believers, we're going to be the new "cool" kids.
Sorry, but small nit to pick. It's 'sea change'. It's from Shakespeare. "Undergo a sea change to something wonderous and strange." Think how the Titanic wreckage looks now.
DeleteActually, I'm grateful for the correction. Learned something new and won't look as ignorant in the future. Thanks.
DeleteYou are most welcome. :-)
DeleteIf GOD does not exist, then Jesus was a liar.
ReplyDeleteOr Jesus didn't exist... The historical record for the existence of Jesus is pretty thin on the ground. Right, except for THAT book which is pretty hard to accept as an historical document. Noah and the flood? Really? When is the bible an historical record and when is it metaphorical? Tough to tell from where I sit.
DeleteJesus was a nice guy, he was deluded into thinking that he was the "son of god" thanks to his mother and her crazy tale of his conception. Jesus was crucified, but not killed, put into a cool cave for a few days, where he revived, and walked away into the desert never to be seen again because he finally figured it all out.
DeleteOr Jesus didn't exist
Delete_____________________________
Until people can agree on this, there doesn't seem to be much point.
Polls like this, in my view, are more about people's reactions to labels than people's reactions to people- to wit, I'd bet that Richard Dawkins would poll higher than Hezbollah head Nasrallah.
ReplyDeleteI'm curious about your reaction to the poll, however, which makes me wonder if you might be conflating your sense of self with your chosen label (a common practice of fundmentalists of all stripes). You are, presumably, more than your label and I'd bet you would poll higher than some generic atheist, however one might define such.
Gryphen,
ReplyDeleteI am curious as to why you'd say, "Now I am not lumping all Muslims into one group..." when several of your recent posts have seemed to do precisely that for anyone claiming to be Christian.
I agree wholeheartedly that making such blanket pronouncements of ANY group as diverse those encompassed by the terms "atheist," "Muslim," or "Christian" is of little or no use. I realize that the fundagelical Christians are an easy and slow moving target, but there are plenty of liberal Christians who bear no more responsibility for the fundies than your average Muslim does for the 9/11 terrorists. Let us be fair in our discussion of spirituality and how others might choose to interpret that notion differently than we do.
Hell, I could vote for an atheist. God willing, that is. ; )
It will be interesting to see if the numbers concerning Mormons goes up or down after people learn more about the LDS church this election cycle. I suspect it could well go down.
However, Romney's Mormonism is the least of my concerns about him. I won't vote for him because he's a giant douche nozzle.
Anon@7:13: Are you aware that Gryphen's chosen label is an answer to the "Moral Majority" label the religionists have been using for some decades now?
ReplyDeleteImmoral Minority seems an aptly tongue-in-cheek response to an arrogant statement.
My standard answer to those trying to "save" me:
"May God, Whoever She may Be, Protect us from Fanatics of All Stripes"...
...and NO, I did not borrow that expression from you. I don not know where it came from, but I used it first in 1977 in an exasperated response to a colleague who would not quit trying to deter me from my Secular Humanist self, and I have used it ever since to great consternation of some in that they recoil at the thought of a Goddess in a Pantheon.
Heavy sigh fromthediagonal
That is because to a segment of the population, not believing in a "God" means you are amoral. It is primitivistic thought. It is prevalent.
ReplyDeleteagreed. and it also shows just how successful religious "marketers" have been to have tied god and morality in the minds of humans for so long.
DeleteI truly believe the skepticism about Athesists is in the word itself and has not one thing to do with the lack of belief in God.
ReplyDeleteThe word itself sounds - anti. It conjures up an anti-Christ, putting it on a level with evil. (And you don't need to believe in Christ to be wary of an anti-Christ.) It's just the way the word sounds.
If Atheism had the 'non' part (non-believer) knocked out and the word replaced with something more positive like 'Science-Driven Beliefs' that would make an Atheist a believer in 'something' and the negative would go away.
I don't know a single Atheist who believes in or worships the devil but I know a lot of Christians who think that's exactly what an Atheist is.
The better poll would be to ask what people think an Atheist believes in...
-OzMud
I agree, OzMud. It's the "not" "Theist" connotation that people can't understand. I always smile when someone says "You believe in atheism?", and I say no, I happen to not believe in God, Atheists are humans, if anything. "You believe in humans" would be more accurate.
DeleteI also dislike the term "godless", my response is "Why do you say godless as if it's a bad thing?"
The same holds true of the occult. People associate "occult" with "devil worship", when Christians and believers of any God actually believe in the "occult" -"That which is obscured from sight or can't be seen".
It's language that trips people up.
There are a lot of good points made above, but my first thought was that religionists think they have a monopoly on a moral compass. If one is an atheist, one doesn't have a moral code, or has a different one than their faith chooses to espouse. Much like the gay community, when more and more people come "out," others realize they're not so scary, or there is one in their family, etc. If atheists were more vocal about their philosophy and answered questions without outright disparaging others' religions, our reputation could change.
ReplyDeleteGreat observation! As with everything else, education is key.
DeleteAnd I think it's always been difficult (for me, at least) to try to rationally explain atheism to people who believe, because the more vocal I become, the more willing to answer questions, the more vocal and disparaging some people get with their beliefs that I'm doomed to hell unless I accept Christ as my personal savior.
But there are many more people becoming more accepting and at least willing to discuss it with me.
why don't they ever ask if people would vote for a pantheist?
ReplyDeleteMost Christians skip these posts b/c you have already shown such contempt for their beliefs that they choose not to engage in the nasty name calling that seems to always pop up from "Atheist" posters.
ReplyDeleteYou've isolated the "other side" from the conversation and have kept only those who believe as you do to comment (save me and Gasman, apparently).
Nice job!
Careful about assigning to me any beliefs or values that I have not specifically espoused. I have only stated that I am a Presbyterian. Other than that, I have been entirely mute about what I do or do not believe. My beliefs are probably far closer to Gryphen's than either you or he might suspect. THAT is my point; it is the height of intellectual sloth to assign homogenous beliefs on the basis of VERY imprecise monikers like "atheist," "Muslim," or "Christian."
DeleteI think that it is entirely fair game to critique specific denominations or sects, however, let's put aside the gross over generalizations based on nothing more than our own preconceptions and conceits.
God knows, there are enough reasons to be critical of me without assigning to me the all of the sins of the rest of Christianity.
Thank You, Gasman, for your most eloquent comment. I think what gets lost in these posts is recognizing the humanity in all people and not defining others who happen to not agree.
DeleteI have to admit that it's something I struggle with as an atheist and I'm sure some believers have the same problem as well.
Espousing atheism would be a big plus in my choice of any elected official. But thats just me, since I really don't believe in a big guy in the sky. Superior life forms? Maybe. Supernatural? Never. Ex Cat ...Go Figure
ReplyDeleteAlthough I think some of the stats on the chart are wrong, I feel the numbers associated with atheism are the closest to the truth. I was trying to explain Mormonism to my Eighty year old Devout Catholic Mother, and she told me to stop , they're Christian, they have "Jesus Christ" in their tagline. I conceded, then asked about the "of latter day Saints" part.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't easy for her to accept my atheism, but once she realized it didn't change who I am, she's ok with it.
It's difficult for her to grasp the history, theology, and traditions of the cult. She's voting for Barack, but I'm still breaking the wiki entry for Mormonism to her in small doses.
I never thought I'd see a Mormon be a candidate, so I guess there's hope for an Atheist.