Sunday, August 05, 2012

Today's completely unnecessary tragedy. Shooting results in six dead at Sikh Temple in Wisconsin.

Courtesy of the Christian Science Monitor:

 At least six people were killed Sunday when a gunman opened fire at a Sikh temple near Milwaukee, and the suspected shooter later died in an exchange of gunfire with police, authorities said. 

Police were called to the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin in the suburb of Oak Creek, where witnesses said several dozen people were gathering for a service. Authorities found four people dead inside the temple and two outside, Greenfield Police Chief Bradley Wentlandt said. 

Sunny Singh, 21, of Milwaukee, said a friend pulled into the temple's parking lot, heard shots and saw two people fall down. The friend then saw the shooter reload his weapons and head to the temple's entrance, Singh said. 

The first police officer to arrive at the temple engaged in gunfire outside the building with a man police believe was the shooter, Wentlandt said. 

The suspect was killed, he said. Tactical units went through the temple, and authorities do not believe a second shooter was involved, Wentlandt said.

Of course sadly this will change nothing.  Even though this is all over the cable news channels right now, in a couple of days it will simply disappear, and not ONE law will be passed to protect American citizens from gun violence.

Instead the authorities will wring their hands and wonder at the individual's mental state, while making sure to say how much they support the 2nd Amendment. After all, "Guns don't kill people, people WITH fucking guns kill people!"

In other news, but on a similar topic, it looks like Gabby Giffords attacker will probably plead guilty on Tuesday.

Apparently in America it does not matter how many people, or even which people, are killed and wounded by gun violence.  Because there is NOTHING as important as making sure that those weapons remain accessible to the NEXT angry or insane person who might need them to murder his fellow citizens.


61 comments:

  1. Anonymous1:30 PM

    Bullshit. With an improved system of checks and balances, which might include basic "duh" activity like screening people who attempt to buy guns and making sure they're not being treated for mental illness, don't have a criminal history, and so on, this shit would be FAR less likely to happen.

    Getting rid of guns entirely is NOT necessarily the answer. I speak as a woman who had a stalker, reported to the police, and I was told by the police "Until he does something to you we can't do anything." It took until the fucker entered my home, refused to take my warnings to leave, and I was able to fire warning shots, for this fucker to leave me alone.

    ANYBODY who has been that vulnerable, with nobody around who will protect her, will be the first to tell you that there ARE legitimate reasons for people to be able to arm themselves with guns for protection.

    Media Insider

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    1. Anonymous3:21 PM

      You know, in some states you would be charged for doing that...men get off with the 'stand your ground' stuff, but not women. We are supposed to close our eyes and wait for whatever
      neb want to do to us to be over. And the GOP is leading the way with these laws.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous4:59 PM

      On twitter someone said this:

      Please fight the media back. THERE WAS 4 shooters NOT 1 #templeshooting Sikh , Oak Creek , #Truth !!!


      All day long the temple members have been saying there was more than one shooter.
      They say they were "dropped off".
      They are not giving out info to the families either which is wrong.
      Some of them don't know if their relatives are alive or not?
      There is something really weird about this.
      And more than a long gunman.

      Delete
    3. It's the people NOT being treated for mental illness I worry about.

      Delete
    4. Bullshit is saying that guns don't kill.

      Bullshit is saying you are safer with a gun

      Bullshit is saying stand your ground

      Bullshit is saying "checks and balances" work

      Bullshit is the "firing warning shots" - woman in Florida was jailed for doing exactly that. So she had a gun, she stood her ground, she passed the checks and balances and she fired warning shots - and she is in jail.

      Delete
  2. Anonymous1:34 PM

    Already the stupid "Guns don't kill people" shit is starting...
    Lets get this clear: There is only one reason to buy a Gun...to kill someone/something.

    We must DEMAND that Gun owners be cleared by a psych eval before getting a gun. And Disband the NRA.
    On the live newsfeed one witness said that there was a phone call last night from someone asking what the busiest time at the temple was!
    The shooter was a WMA in his 30's.
    And they were having a guest speaker from India who was shot and unknown if he has died.
    All people are welcome at the Sikh temple.
    That policy will probably change...
    I am damn sick of the killing.
    The 2nd amendment was not written for this, mass murder, this is a hate crime by a "domestic terrorist".

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    1. Anonymous2:24 PM

      Seven are dead, including the shooter. Cop injured and now in surgery. 4 shot inside the temple and 3 outside. Single shooter with one gun is the report now. The Sikh's are often mistaken for Muslims. Racial hatred rears it's ugly head. Bet this idiot watched FOX!

      Coverage on MSNBC.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous2:50 PM

      I purposely left off the shooter...
      Now the police/fbi/bomb squad is evacuating a neighborhood...

      The NRA trollies are out in full force. I have a big FuckYou for them!

      Also buying ammo. Its too easy.
      The killing must stop.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous3:20 PM

      In the Detroit area, some Sikh boys resorted to shaving their heads to avoid bullying. Normally Sikh men keep their hair long and wear turbans. Wonder why the right isn't all over the Jews who wear black robes, long hair, and skullcaps all the time? I mean, they are 'different' too, aren't they?

      Delete
    4. Anonymous11:38 PM

      Anon 3:20: what world do you live in that you think the far right has not killed or attacked Jewish people. Your comment is so odd that I'm not sure what to make of it. Perhaps you just don't know that anti-Semitic hate crimes are a huge problem in this country and in the world. What about the nut that started firing in the Holocaust museum last year? I can give you many many other examples. It isn't even people who " look different." There was a shooting/killing in a Unitarian congregation last year.
      I could go on and on. I hate guns. And I had a stalker once too with no one to protect me. The police were terrible!! But I still think guns should be controlled. I don't understand all these fanatic gun owners and I never will.

      Delete
  3. A. J. Billings1:38 PM

    I'd be willing to be that the criminally insane idiot that did this killing didn't know that Sikhs are NOT MUSLIM.

    "well, they wear wierd clothes, and beards, and turbans, so they ain't rill Americuns anyhowz, and they is all terrorists"

    This is just exactly what happens when the Fox news folks, and the Paylin worshipers get their revenge on all them raghead types.

    How much do you bet you won't hear any messages of regret or religious tolerance from Tony Perkins, the AFA, Dobson, Hagee, Barton, or the so called "Dominionists"?

    The majority of the church leaders couldn't care less about a small sect that isn't christian, because no one really matters unless you are a dues paying member of their gang

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    1. Anonymous2:32 PM

      You forgot the "brown" part. I have been and am currently streaming WISN to keep up on the latest. They're saying that two little kids saw the first shootings, and ran inside to warn the others. The family hosting the communal lunch were celebrating the little girl's birthday last week.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous2:38 PM

      I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the case. Ignorance. Insanity. Hate.

      I think some churches bring out the most base impulses in their tribes. Every church in this country should meet tomorrow and cast shame on this act.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous3:18 PM

      And yet, if you read their beliefs, they are even more "christian" than these faux Christians. the Sihks actually live by their beliefs, instead of giving lip service to a Son of God they don't even listen to.

      Delete
    4. Doesn't really matter who they think they are - highlights how well those who preach hatred of the Muslim religion get their message across - if your skin is brown - Muslim - no difference - shoot.

      Delete
  4. May the families of the victims find peace.

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  5. I hope these shootings are treated as acts of terrorism, as they are. My (young adult) children are all afraid to leave our house and enjoy the last days of summer because of these events. My heart hurts for the victims and their families.

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    Replies
    1. Act of racism - seems to be a good possibility for this one.

      Delete
  6. We went to Gander Mountain the other day to get a fishing license. While there we looked at the enormous gun department complete with indoor shooting range, both traditional and 'virtual', and lots of info brochures on classes offered.

    This stuff is pushed heavily as 'sport' even though handguns and high-powered rifles are for sale in the store.

    The guys browsing the gun dept. looked odd to me, walking around stiffly as though they were probably carrying concealed weapons and waiting for a fight.

    If people kill people, then these are the people who do it, wandering around sporting goods stores with chips on their shoulders.

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  7. Anonymous1:59 PM

    Last week Justice Scalia said that as long as a weapon is hand held they are protected under the second amendment. When asked how he would decide the limits of new technologically advanced weaponry i.e., hand held rocket launchers, Scalia laughed and answered with the old line "verry carefully". He thinks he is a comedian, too.

    http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2012/07/29/video-justice-scalia-suggests-hand-held-rocket-launchers-protected-under-second-amendment/

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    1. Anonymous2:09 PM

      He is a disgrace. The Second Amendmenthas been overused and misinterpreted for simply too long. The right is trying to do the same thing with their narrow interpretation of the First Amendment too.

      Delete
  8. Anonymous2:03 PM

    Live reports: http://livewire.wisn.com/Event/Oak_Creek_Temple_Shooting

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  9. Anonymous2:04 PM

    Sick people with guns kill people! The only things guns do is KILL!

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  10. Anonymous2:32 PM

    I have head it. Get rid of the guns. Look at the UK, look at Canada. How many murders do we need to make this change? Nobody needs a handgun.

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  11. Anonymous2:32 PM

    I agree completely! Took my family to our local ballgame last night (Class A affiliate of the Red Sox) and left early because my son saw someone strolling around with a gun strapped on his hip and was scared that it was going to turn into a "Batman shooting". I asked an on-duty policeman if he was aware of the situation and was informed that the guy was within his 2nd Amendment right and Virginia's open carry provision to bring a weapon into a ballpark. Last night was the last time I will support my local ball club with my presence and money.
    While I respect that people have the right to have and carry weapons in public, when does their right supercede my right to feel safe in a family venue? Even more to the point, whatbguarantee do I get that this person doesn't have anger management issues, agression issues or a drinking/drug problem? The gun guy looked like he was slightly toasted, and seemed to be strutting around making sure folks saw that he was packing

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    1. emrysa8:05 PM

      "when does their right supercede my right to feel safe in a family venue?"

      EXACTLY! how sad that your son was scared. it still shocks me that there are people who WANT to live in a world where everyone is carrying a gun. I mean wtf? it's like going back to the frontier days. well f that I'm not in favor of devolving.

      Delete
  12. Anonymous2:35 PM

    I'm just wondering how long it will take the Baggers to start the meme that if those folks were only packin'....oh, wait. They're brown. Definitely shouldn't be allowed to have guns.

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  13. Randall2:42 PM

    I think we should push our legislators to pass laws that allow firearms to be carried in the halls of Congress.

    The House and Senate Chambers, on the floors and in the galleries.

    Legislators and tourists alike, all allowed to carry firearms, open-carry as well as concealed.

    And if they don't think that's a good idea...

    ...then why not?

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  14. Anonymous3:11 PM

    WISN now reporting that a neighborhood in Cudahy has been evacuated around a "target" home, i.e. potentially where the shooter lived. Neighbors are saying he just moved in a few weeks ago. Cops went around with a photo of a young guy, 20s, with a scruffy kind of beard asking if that was the fellow who lived there. Evacuating all around the duplex, & streets around. Good idea considering all the bomb making stuff the CO shooter had. No idea if this was the actual shooter or an accomplice as earlier reports said the gunman had been dropped off in the temple parking lot.

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  15. I hate that crazy people keep doing this shit, and I hate even more that people like Michele Bachman try to make prejudice against Muslims a national past time. If any good could possibly come out of this kind of situation, Michele Bachman would be made to sit down and shut the fuck up!

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    1. Anonymous3:43 PM

      I wish people like Michelle Bachmann and her Republican cohorts would read the First Amendment some time. They think that they can spout off all kinds of seditious nonsense. But all people in this country have a guaranteed right to practice their own religion. And, as far as I'm concerned, that trumps walking around with a loaded gun and shooting at people trying to exercise their right to practice their religion.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous4:09 PM

      Not only michelle bachmann but that crazy atlas shrugs bitch too!
      What hateful thugs these people are.

      I'm with the person above. NO GUNS!
      And for the person at a ballgame with the person open carry, contact your city council and mayor and get that law changed. Vote out any poli who supports the NRA and lets get someone to investigate the NRA and shut it down.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous4:09 PM

      Not only michelle bachmann but that crazy atlas shrugs bitch too!
      What hateful thugs these people are.

      I'm with the person above. NO GUNS!
      And for the person at a ballgame with the person open carry, contact your city council and mayor and get that law changed. Vote out any poli who supports the NRA and lets get someone to investigate the NRA and shut it down.

      Delete
  16. Anonymous3:18 PM

    Doesn't seem to be as much coverage on the news OR people posting on the web (this one included). Is it because the victims are brown?

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  17. Anonymous3:43 PM

    I tell ya, the more I listen to this "Singh" guy on CNN (orange turban & tie), the more interested & impressed I am in his faith. Good commentator.

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  18. Anonymous3:52 PM

    A Movie Theater, Now a Sikh Temple. When We Have That Honest Discussion of Responsible Gun Laws



    I'm getting tired of writing and rewriting this article. And frankly, you should be tired of reading it.

    I've been writing about our irresponsible gun laws since 1999, and in that time nothing has changed. Every year, upwards of 30,000 people die because of guns. Though we have a little over 4% of the world's population, 45% of all civilian gun deaths in the world occur here.

    The shootings at the Sikh temple today are tragic. The Aurora massacre was tragic. All such incidences are tragic. Every time something like this happens, it makes me sick, because we do nothing about it. Nothing. We're supposed to be a free country, but are we?

    Do you realize how many of these incidents occur? Here's a partial list of the mass shootings just since Columbine in April 1999:


    In July, 1999, an Atlanta stock trader killed 12 people, including his own wife and two children, before he turned the gun on himself.

    In March 2005, a man opened fire on a church in Brookfield, Wisconsin, killing seven people.

    In April 2007, a Virginia Tech student used his gun to kill 32 people and injured 15 more on the college campus.

    In August 2007, a 28-year-old man and two 15-year-old boys killed three Delaware State students and wounded a fourth, execution style.

    In December 2007, a 20-year-old man opened fire at an Omaha, Nebraska shopping center, killing nine and injuring five others.

    In September 2008, a mentally ill man who had just been released from jail a month earlier, shot eight people. Six of them died, two survived.

    In March 2009, a 28-year-old man who had just been laid off from his job drove through several Alabama towns and fired out of the window, killing ten and injuring several others.

    In April 2009, a man opened fire at a Binghamton NY civic center, killing 13 people.

    In November 2009, a US Army psychologist shot up the military base at Fort Hood, Texas, killing 13 and wounding 42 more.

    In January 2011, in front of a Tucson, Az shopping center, a mentally unstable man opened fire, killing six and wounding 12 others, including Congressperson Gabrielle Giffords.
    .
    And that's just the tip of the iceberg, folks. You may think the above are isolated incidents, but they're not. The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence has compiled a comprehensive list of incidents just since 2005, and the sheer number of such incidents has to make someone sit up and take notice. The document is SIXTY-TWO PAGES LONG!

    We have a problem, folks!

    http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/2012/08/honorauroravictimswithrealguncontrol.html

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  19. Anonymous4:01 PM

    OMG! I just logged on and this news brought tears to my eyes! Why is this happening? I blame those far-right-wing-nuts and people like Sarah Palin and her ilk who have no tolerance for people who aren't like themselves.

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  20. Anonymous4:02 PM

    From this post: "Even though this is all over the cable news channels right now, in a couple of days it will simply disappear, and not ONE law will be passed to protect American citizens from gun violence." -- so true. Most Americans will have forget about it too, and the politicians know it. In the meantime, Fox will do it's best "not to jump to conclusions" until "we know all the facts", then simply get back to the business of pumping old, white Americans full of fear of the "others".

    If the wingnut response to this is "guns don't kill people, people kill people"... why don't we allow anyone to make bombs that could cause mass casualties on a large scale? After all, bombs don't kill people, right?

    Some days I find that America is just fine and it's the just the media who's creating an atmosphere of perceived chaos, but on days like this, I really have to ask, what the fuck is wrong in our society today??

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  21. Anonymous4:26 PM

    From WISN--Both the local Jewish & Muslim communities have made statements of support, Red Cross & Salvation Army are in place with food & crisis counseling. Still not identifying the victims, but one was definitely from India, so that may account for part of the delay. Special guest speaker, so lots of people had traveled to hear him.

    Local Muslim leadership has also stated that they are afraid this was a case of mistaken identity, i.e. the shooter thought the Sikh's were Muslim. WISN still doing wall to wall coverage as story has now moved to Holmes Ave in Cudahy.

    Temple has been cleared of survivors; 4 deceased still inside. FBI, ATF, all kinds of local agencies still on scene & will be all night.

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  22. Anonymous4:28 PM

    As a Sikh, I believe that people are inherently good. Our faith instills a sense of perpetual optimism, and our traditions teach us to always make the best of a tough situation.

    Fear and negativity are foreign to our vocabulary. Sikhs are not a God-fearing people; we are God-loving.

    The commitment to love and optimism shapes the way that Sikhs interact with their societies, and I'm concerned that becoming cynical and negative might lead us down a slippery slope.

    So I am making a conscious decision. I am refusing to accept that human beings are malicious and hateful, and I am rejecting the notion that we need to live in fear.


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/05/wisconsin-shooting-sikh-temple_n_1744256.html#liveblog

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  23. Anonymous5:10 PM

    "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."

    - Hermann Goering

    “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

    - Joseph Goebbels

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  24. Seems a case of mistaken identity, IMO. The Sikh philosophy is amazingly beautiful. The guiding principles of the Sikh faith are Truth, Equality, Freedom, Justice, and Karma.

    The essence of Sikh teaching is summed up by Nanak in these words: "Realization of Truth is higher than all else. Higher still is truthful living".

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    Replies
    1. Anonymous7:33 PM

      Haven't you heard? Faith is a target of ridicule in these parts.

      Delete
    2. I wish the Sihks would realize that a lot of their problems stem from being mistaken for Muslims and do something about it. There was a lot of violence against Sihks within a few days of 9/11 ~ all because of mistaken identy.

      Maybe they could wear their uncut hair in a ponytail instead of a turban.

      It reminds me of the Maccabees in the UNcut bible... you know, the mighty warrior folks who were getting slaughtered on Saturdays because it was their holy day and they wouldn't fight on those days. Living in caves and nearing extinction, they decided to defend themselves ~ even on their holy day ~ and were saved as a tribe.

      Save yourselves, Sihks... you're too beautiful to be drawn into violence because of your turbans!

      Delete
    3. Anony 7:33 ~

      Why be such a sore ass on this thread?

      You're obviously upset with Gryphen over something, but i hope it's not because he expresses his belief system. He chooses to share; we choose to come here.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous2:25 AM

      ^Hi Bristol @7:33 PM

      Delete
    5. aj billings3:29 AM

      Hey, 7:33pm, wait a damn minute. It's not that anyone is "ridiculing" faith. The point is that often IM postings are about examining religion and faith from the scientific or atheist viewpoint.

      That is discussion, not ridicule
      take your snarky comments over to Fox news or townhall blogs

      Delete
  25. Anonymous7:29 PM

    Congratulations on refraining from insulting these people based on your disrespect for their faith, G.

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    Replies
    1. Anonymous8:27 PM

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sjSHazjrWg

      Delete
    2. Anonymous10:04 PM

      Ugly and un-called for 7:29.

      Delete
  26. Anonymous7:42 PM

    C'mon $arah..............do your Facebook Second Amendment Solutions "TAWD and my hearts go out to...." post.

    May your whole damn family lay awake at night. You know what you are. We do, too.

    ReplyDelete
  27. emrysa8:18 PM

    I have been wondering lately if it would be possible to pull off a colbert-style promotion of the 2nd amendment. start campaigning for people to have grenades, tanks, bazookas, all that shit. right now, the right to bear arms is focused solely on guns - the 2nd amendment lovers always couch it in terms of guns. well maybe a campaign needs to couch it in terms of other weapons, to expose just how fucking stupid the whole thing is from the beginning. put these idiots in the position of having to defend these other weapons, because really the 2nd amendment would apply to them as well.

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  28. Anonymous10:03 PM

    I smell wood burning. Sarah is thinking of how she can say "reload" or "blood libel" to insert her face into this.

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  29. Mentally deranged hatewinger can't even figure out that Sikhs aren't muslims.

    Wisconsin. Wisconsin. What has happened to you? Wonder if this would have happened if the recall of Walker had been successful. Or he hadn't been elected in the first place.

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  30. More funding needed for mental health care. Damn you, Reagan !

    ReplyDelete
  31. Anonymous6:09 AM

    As a scientist, I find it laughable that people get so emotional and express all these feelings. I know gland juice is squirting in their brains or whatever and they have come to believe they experience 'horror' or 'love' but these 'emotions' are not measurable so I have had enough of them! When will 'feeling' people grow up and stop using this centuries old crutch? Love, hah! It is imaginary and the product of weak-minded fools.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous10:53 AM

      What are you talking about? Do you have Asperger's?

      Delete
    2. Anonymous3:16 PM

      yes I do! was that supposed to be an insult? cute, G!

      Delete
  32. Anonymous9:47 AM

    Too bad these groups don't get more press. The Army does have some real low life. Not to say there are many of them or they represent the Army. They are there and they are nuts and they are dangerous.

    People say Track Palin wants privacy, well fine. But why does he want privacy. We know he and Todd are not Republicans. We know about Todd's association and membership with the AIP. We know he wants to look like he is not a secessionist and how much he is military. Not much is known about Track Palin. he was a best bud of Jeremy Morlock, he had his own drug and violent life. It is alleged he did marry the girl he knocked up. Other than that there is too, too much that is suspect. And those beast are in our Army and they do plan hideous things. This Wade person carried out his sick fantasies. I hope the media won't handle this with kid gloves and treat it like these people are not a threat. The ones like Joe Miller and Schaeffer Cox, also, too.

    Shooting suspect described as white supremacist Army veteran
    http://www.necn.com/08/06/12/Shooting-suspect-described-as-white-supr/landing_nation.html?&apID=a9d1b1b4bdd6426b8ad57ab1529d807f

    ReplyDelete
  33. Anonymous10:52 AM

    Is anyone making the connection between what Michele Bahchman said and this shooting? It looks like a case of mistaken identity (no one ever accused the cowardly gunmen of being smart)and the mainstream press reported Hilary's aide had protection since B's comments, that she had been approached on the street.

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  34. Anonymous11:53 AM

    It isn't looking so much like a person or persons who would go to any type of mental health clinic. They may not be persons that buy legal guns. While both of those are valid issues this may be different.

    ReplyDelete

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