Morality is not determined by the church you attend nor the faith you embrace. It is determined by the quality of your character and the positive impact you have on those you meet along your journey
When I was in high school in Central Florida, a man named Billy Ferry walked into a grocery store in Tampa and committed mass murder.
Billy was certifiably insane. Billy's parents and sister wanted the State to do something about Billy. They were sure that Billy would harm himself or others if he wasn't institutionalized. The State said that they couldn't do anything until Billy posed an imminent threat. That it would be a violation of Billy's rights to detain or institutionalize him. There's no law against being bat shit crazy.
In early July of 1983, Billy Ferry walked into a grocery store in Tampa Florida and threw the contents of a five gallon bucket onto the employees and patrons in the check out line. He then struck a lighter and threw it at them and ran out of the store laughing. The bucket contained gasoline. 5 people were burned to death and 13 were horribly burned and disfigured for life.
My mother grew up in Tampa and our family had connections with two of the victims. I was a Junior in high school in Central Florida when this happened and it made quite an impression on me.
What struck me at the time was that you don't need a gun to commit mass murder. Even if you were able to keep guns away from those that may use them for such purposes, it wouldn't stop unstable people from ending the lives of others.
I don't know what the answer is. How do we keep crazy people from killing others? If we take away guns, will we remove the ability for them to commit mass murder? I think Timothy McVeigh nullified that argument.
A friend made the point that if a teacher or two were to have had a firearm available, that the carnage might have been lessened. I'm not sure that that is a good idea either since a teacher could have just as easily been the one to decide to start shooting students and staff.
Again, I don't know what the answer is. If it were as easy as outlawing guns, I'd entertain the idea. But there will always be black market guns available regardless of what is legislated. And those that are willing to obtain guns by illegal means won't care what the laws are and are most likely to use them in the wrong way.
As redneck as it is, I really do think that if everyone had guns it would keep everyone in check. Then again, it seems that most of those that commit such crimes also commit suicide. So, how do you deter someone that intends to kill themselves?
To the People who say that teachers should be armed: please remember that the shooter had body armor. In a firefight, even the armed teachers would lose.
No owning guns does not keep everyone in check . Louisiana has a high gun ownership and high homicide rate so that debunks your theory. I think you need to look at why crime and homicide are non existent in tight knit rural communities vs bigger cities. As a psych major the brain responds to any real or imagined threat to survival. Small communities believe that the health , and welfare of every single person is necessary for the survival of a community.... We don't always like each other but we make sure that we all have each others backs when it comes to the basic needs to survive
The commentor above says several times "I dont know the answer". My suggestion is to look at the numbers. Countries that don't sell guns on every corner do not have this mass shooting problem. They have crazy people of course, they are just not armed crazy people. Look at the numbers, math doesn't lie.
it's not about the guns. They could do it by other means. Homicide and suicide are both lower suicide is virtually non existent in Canada, UK, Sweden, France, Germany. But these are countries that also guarantee that every human being has basic survival needs met. I live in a small town with lots of guns , no crime , no murder , no suicide ....... why because no matter how we feel , all of your basic survival needs are guaranteed. We don't have bullying etc , even if I think you are an odd duck you are welcome in my home not excluded. And yes my kids grew up on violent tv and video games
I agree with you Anon 4:42AM. There isn't an easy solution. I must say the graph above is really apples and oranges. When one looks at the methods to harm/kill available to the mentally ill, sporting goods stores can be added (knives, bows and arrows, etc)gasoline, as you stated, fertilizer (McVeigh), on and on.
The firearms used by the killer were legally purchased and registered by his Mother. Yet, he had access to them; they should have been secured since it was known he was mentally unstable.
I own a firearm, and yes I own it for the protection of my family.
I agree, there has to be a common ground solution. But it isn't the sane, rational, gun owners perpetuating this violence against society. It is done by those on the fringe of society who are motivated by things known only to them.
I am actually still too stunned by what happened to those innocent children to think straight.
I don't know about anyone else but I do not want my kids going to a school where the teachers feel the need to be armed. I do not want any guns in the schools that my kids go to. It's not just the mass murders - it's the 7yo that gets shot by his father because he did not have the safety on. It's the 4yo that shoots his 2yo brother. It's the 3yo son of a police officer that picks up his mom the police officer's gun and shoots his sister and his aunt (both survived). Kids and guns do not belong together in the same household, school, etc. So the idea of arming an entire nation in order to provide ourselves protection puts us equal to Syria, Liberia, and other countries where it is everyone out for themselves. People need to understand that it is no longer the Wild Wild West and that it never worked that well back then either. When you have a lot of people that live close together weapons should be taken out of the equation and other solutions thought out.
Years ago I saw a well dressed gentleman driving a Lincoln with a bumper sticker that read, "An armed society is a polite society." I contend that an armed society is one that lives their entire lives in fear. Should we be polite only because we are afraid that we might get blown away if we're not? This is lunacy to justify an irrational love affair with tools designed to efficiently kill people. Yes, crazy people can use knives, gasoline and fertilizer, but that's rare - look at the numbers! The guy in China who slashed 20 kids a while back? The kids all survived. Yesterday there was only one survivor...
When I was in high school in Central Florida, a man named Billy Ferry walked into a grocery store in Tampa and committed mass murder.
ReplyDeleteBilly was certifiably insane. Billy's parents and sister wanted the State to do something about Billy. They were sure that Billy would harm himself or others if he wasn't institutionalized. The State said that they couldn't do anything until Billy posed an imminent threat. That it would be a violation of Billy's rights to detain or institutionalize him. There's no law against being bat shit crazy.
In early July of 1983, Billy Ferry walked into a grocery store in Tampa Florida and threw the contents of a five gallon bucket onto the employees and patrons in the check out line. He then struck a lighter and threw it at them and ran out of the store laughing. The bucket contained gasoline. 5 people were burned to death and 13 were horribly burned and disfigured for life.
My mother grew up in Tampa and our family had connections with two of the victims. I was a Junior in high school in Central Florida when this happened and it made quite an impression on me.
What struck me at the time was that you don't need a gun to commit mass murder. Even if you were able to keep guns away from those that may use them for such purposes, it wouldn't stop unstable people from ending the lives of others.
I don't know what the answer is. How do we keep crazy people from killing others? If we take away guns, will we remove the ability for them to commit mass murder? I think Timothy McVeigh nullified that argument.
A friend made the point that if a teacher or two were to have had a firearm available, that the carnage might have been lessened. I'm not sure that that is a good idea either since a teacher could have just as easily been the one to decide to start shooting students and staff.
Again, I don't know what the answer is. If it were as easy as outlawing guns, I'd entertain the idea. But there will always be black market guns available regardless of what is legislated. And those that are willing to obtain guns by illegal means won't care what the laws are and are most likely to use them in the wrong way.
As redneck as it is, I really do think that if everyone had guns it would keep everyone in check. Then again, it seems that most of those that commit such crimes also commit suicide. So, how do you deter someone that intends to kill themselves?
I am at a loss. I really don't see a solution.
To the People who say that teachers should be armed: please remember that the shooter had body armor. In a firefight, even the armed teachers would lose.
DeleteNo owning guns does not keep everyone in check . Louisiana has a high gun ownership and high homicide rate so that debunks your theory. I think you need to look at why crime and homicide are non existent in tight knit rural communities vs bigger cities. As a psych major the brain responds to any real or imagined threat to survival. Small communities believe that the health , and welfare of every single person is necessary for the survival of a community.... We don't always like each other but we make sure that we all have each others backs when it comes to the basic needs to survive
DeleteThe answer to guns is not more guns. That is crazy.
DeleteI don't think crazy people should have guns.
Adam Lanza had guns because he stole them from his Mother. She owned FIVE guns, including two semi-automatic handguns.
I submit that not only was Adam crazy, so was his Mother.
Robin, if you think homicide and violent crime are nonexistent in small rural communities, you could not be more wrong.
DeleteThe commentor above says several times "I dont know the answer". My suggestion is to look at the numbers. Countries that don't sell guns on every corner do not have this mass shooting problem. They have crazy people of course, they are just not armed crazy people. Look at the numbers, math doesn't lie.
ReplyDeleteit's not about the guns. They could do it by other means. Homicide and suicide are both lower suicide is virtually non existent in Canada, UK, Sweden, France, Germany. But these are countries that also guarantee that every human being has basic survival needs met. I live in a small town with lots of guns , no crime , no murder , no suicide ....... why because no matter how we feel , all of your basic survival needs are guaranteed. We don't have bullying etc , even if I think you are an odd duck you are welcome in my home not excluded. And yes my kids grew up on violent tv and video games
DeleteI agree with you Anon 4:42AM. There isn't an easy solution. I must say the graph above is really apples and oranges. When one looks at the methods to harm/kill available to the mentally ill, sporting goods stores can be added (knives, bows and arrows, etc)gasoline, as you stated, fertilizer (McVeigh), on and on.
ReplyDeleteThe firearms used by the killer were legally purchased and registered by his Mother. Yet, he had access to them; they should have been secured since it was known he was mentally unstable.
I own a firearm, and yes I own it for the protection of my family.
I agree, there has to be a common ground solution. But it isn't the sane, rational, gun owners perpetuating this violence against society. It is done by those on the fringe of society who are motivated by things known only to them.
I am actually still too stunned by what happened to those innocent children to think straight.
Vero Guy
Heard on NPR today in a surprising editorial (on Marketplace) that there are more gun shops in the US than Starbucks in the world. That stunned me.
ReplyDeleteTrue.
DeleteStarbucks is the largest coffeehouse company in the world, with 20,366 stores in 61 countries, including 13,123 in the United States
I don't know about anyone else but I do not want my kids going to a school where the teachers feel the need to be armed. I do not want any guns in the schools that my kids go to. It's not just the mass murders - it's the 7yo that gets shot by his father because he did not have the safety on. It's the 4yo that shoots his 2yo brother. It's the 3yo son of a police officer that picks up his mom the police officer's gun and shoots his sister and his aunt (both survived). Kids and guns do not belong together in the same household, school, etc. So the idea of arming an entire nation in order to provide ourselves protection puts us equal to Syria, Liberia, and other countries where it is everyone out for themselves. People need to understand that it is no longer the Wild Wild West and that it never worked that well back then either. When you have a lot of people that live close together weapons should be taken out of the equation and other solutions thought out.
ReplyDeleteYears ago I saw a well dressed gentleman driving a Lincoln with a bumper sticker that read, "An armed society is a polite society." I contend that an armed society is one that lives their entire lives in fear. Should we be polite only because we are afraid that we might get blown away if we're not? This is lunacy to justify an irrational love affair with tools designed to efficiently kill people. Yes, crazy people can use knives, gasoline and fertilizer, but that's rare - look at the numbers! The guy in China who slashed 20 kids a while back? The kids all survived. Yesterday there was only one survivor...
ReplyDeleteStarbucks is the largest coffeehouse company in the world, with 20,366 stores in 61 countries, including 13,123 in the United States
ReplyDeleteMore gun shops in the U.S. than Starbucks in the entire world.
Look at them from greatest to least-
ReplyDeleteBig oil, Guns, Groceries , and Fast Food.
Where our priorities are as a society?