Josh Powell wanted to go to school so badly that he pleaded with local officials to let him enroll. He didn’t know exactly what students were learning at Buckingham County High School, in rural central Virginia, but he had the sense that he was missing something fundamental.
By the time he was 16, he had never written an essay. He didn’t know South Africa was a country. He couldn’t solve basic algebra problems.
“There were all these things that are part of this common collective of knowledge that 99 percent of people have that I didn’t have,” Powell said.
Powell was taught at home, his parents using a religious exemption that allows families to entirely opt out of public education, a Virginia law that is unlike any other in the country. That means that not only are their children excused from attending school — as those educated under the state’s home-school statute are — but they also are exempt from all government oversight.
School officials don’t ever ask them for transcripts, test scores or proof of education of any kind: Parents have total control.
Powell’s family encapsulates the debate over the long-standing law, with his parents earnestly trying to provide an education that reflects their beliefs and their eldest son objecting that without any structure or official guidance, children are getting shortchanged. Their disagreement, at its core, is about what they think is most essential that children learn — and whether government, or families, should define that.
Josh was able to catch up by taking remedial courses in community college but he still feels cheated and worries a great deal about his siblings.
Josh Powell, now 21, wonders how much more he could have accomplished if he hadn’t spent so much time and effort catching up.
“I think people should definitely have the freedom to home-school as long as it’s being done well and observed,” he said. “I don’t see any reason for there not to be accountability.”
Most of all, he worries about his siblings: There are 11. One, old enough to be well into middle school, can’t read, Josh Powell said.
Now he’s trying to get his brothers and sisters into school, to ensure that they don’t have to work as hard as he did to catch up — or get left behind.
“I almost have survivor’s guilt,” he said. He loves his family and stays in close touch with it, but he said he is frustrated. “I feel like I made it out alive and I’m doing okay, but I’m not sure everyone else can because there’s so much that’s gotten so much worse.”
Okay I know what a volatile issue this is, and you already know that I suffer from some serious prejudices against religious homeschooling due to the experiences of my daughter, but what do all you think about this young man's situation?
Is there really a way to provide families the choice of teaching their children at home while maintaining academic standards? And if that decision is based mainly on religious considerations is that an adequate reason to deny their children access to the kind of education and social opportunities enjoyed by the rest of their peers?
You know what I think but I will leave the floor open for discussion.
"By the time he was 16, he had never written an essay. He didn’t know South Africa was a country. He couldn’t solve basic algebra problems." ...Don't feel bad, Josh. The Tundra Turd doesn't know those things either.
ReplyDeleteThat wasn't homeschooling, it was educational neglect. And obviously, the using teh Tundra Turd as an example, and the employment or Crazy Crude Chuckie Sr and Jr as an example - public education doesn't guarantee a better result.
DeleteCrude Chuckie Sr didn't even have a bachelor's.
DeleteI'd wager that the Heaths' move from Idaho to Alaska was based partly on the states' requirements for teachers: Idaho may have started to expect four-years of college, while new little Alaska would accept a community-college degree.
DeleteAnd then he must have been "grandfathered" in to continue to teach as long as he did.
Of course, both he and his wife are pulling down state pensions. I wonder why Sarah doesn't call them freeloaders and tell them to give back that largess?
Anonymous 6:04 makes a good point.
DeleteAlso, there was a very suspicious arson at an auto dealership in Sand Point shortly before the move, and I had always wondered about that as well (had Chuck applied for a job there, for example?). After all, we know that there were some suspicious, unresolved – and deadly – arsons in Wasilla as well. Were there also arsons in Skagway?? Not alleging anything, merely asking questions.
Not sure why you brought Palin into this discussion. I feel bad for this obviously intelligent young man who lost out to a rounded education simply because his parents followed the words of some religious leader, thus denying this young man and his siblings a chance to share wisely in our world community.
DeleteSarah was born in 1964 and moved to Alaska in her first year. 1962-1966, I was a college student in Idaho. During that time, Idaho required two years of college for a lifetime teaching certificate.
DeleteFor me, it is simple - religion needs to go.
ReplyDeleteParents withhold medical treatment and kids dies, based on religion.
Parents withhold education and kids get left behind.
Religion causes hate and starts wars.
I've been religion free for 10 years now and feel smarter and more free (also superior I'll admit) to those who really think they have a hold on the one true god.
I leave you with a line from the Life of PI: What story did you prefer?
All while Asian countries push their kids to excel in math and science.
ReplyDeleteAnd these undereducated people will be voting (for anti-science republicans, no doubt!) in coming decades. This country gets what it deserves.
Oh, we're starting the BS of just Math and science, but ignoring the humanities will make us less, you know, human and humane.
DeleteThey push them, but with methods decidedly different from the "kill any intelligence" US methods. see singapore curriculum
Deleteignorant, ignorant Gryphen - please change that headline: "RELIGIOUS homeschooled student".
ReplyDeleteignorant, ignorant Gryphen
DeleteHuh? Are you claiming that Gryphen is clueless about the world in general, or that there is a specific set of facts that he is ignorant of? If the latter, you would appear more clueful if you were to identify to him, and to the rest of us, where he is lacking. All you offer is, 'please change that headline: "RELIGIOUS homeschooled student"'.
It's clear from Gryphen's commentary that he was aware that the homeschooling Josh received was religious, so you can't be claiming that he was ignorant of that fact. Well, not reasonably, anyway. Perhaps you skipped straight from the headline to the comments section, without reading the rest of what he wrote?
Since you asked him to add the word "RELIGIOUS" to the headline (and change "homeschool" to "homeschooled") could it be that you felt it was vitally important that the specific homeschool in question be identified, right off the bat, as a religious one? If so, you could have civilly explained why you felt it was so important, without asserting that Gryphen is either generally ignorant of everything, or ignorant of some specific facts. If the latter, please share with us the set of facts that you know and—you claim—Gryphen doesn't, that make it essential to have the word "RELIGIOUS" in the headline.
Since the article is about one specific homeschool and one of its students' opinions, it is not the case that failing to mention in the headline that this homeschool is religious is somehow besmirching the reputation of non-religious homeschools. I'm sure that there are at least one or two non-religious homeschools in Virginia—possibly even three … or four—that have similar problems.
Sorry, I don' have to comment according to YOUR criteria. Gryphen has been told many, many times that not all homeschoolers are doing so for religious reasons. Those of us who have homeschooled for academic reasons have to make these distinctions all the time. A misleading headline like this (for those who do just have time to cruise the headlines) makes the lives of conscientious, educated and homeschooling parents needlessly difficult.
DeleteIf I may weigh in here.
DeleteThe headline is supposed to create the desire to read the post. Which clearly this one did.
This headline is not inaccurate, it simply does not contain all the information that you personally wish that it did. I am sure that MOST of my headlines bother at least a handful of people every day.
However since the post itself DOES contain the pertinent information, the compliant is not really valid.
And besides that, it should be mentioned that there are other homeschooling parents who do a poor job other than those who are religiously affiliated. Which would speak to the need for more oversight in every state that allows homeschooling in order to maintain quality control.
And that really was the main point of my post. And the discussion that I wanted to inspire.
Anonymous 2:48 PM (whom I'm assuminng is also Anonymous 4:30 AM) wrote: Sorry, I don' have to comment according to YOUR criteria.
DeleteSome people remain anonymous to that they can reveal personal information without compromising their privacy. Some people do so so that they can call the blogger "ignorant"—twice—without justification and then, when called on it, come back with rude non sequiturs such as the above.
Apparently it was the case "that you felt it was vitally important that the specific homeschool in question be identified, right off the bat, as a religious one" as I suggested in my previous comment, but you did not feel that it would be appropriate to explain civilly in the original comment why you felt it was so important—or (a propos "civilly") in the more recent one either.
In view of your concession that Gryphen has been made aware "many, many times" that some homeschoolers are very concerned that anythng negative about homeschooling makes it clear up front that the homeschooling in question is religiously based, it's ironic that you choose to call him "ignorant, ignorant". Unkind to your sensitivities, perhaps, but "ignorant, ignorant"? I'm willing to believe that you know what the word means, but it seems to me that here you are simply using it as a free-floating term of abuse. Just my personal opinion of course; you are in no way obliged to accept it, any more than you were my previous response.
It has to be recognized that not all horrible homeschoolers are religious and not all religious homeschoolers are horrible.
DeleteIt has to be recognized …
DeleteI agree. "I'm sure that there are at least one or two non-religious homeschools in Virginia—possibly even three … or four—that have similar problems" and vice versa, of course, 4:30 AM/2:48 PM's sensitivities notwithstanding.
May states don't have any government oversight - just as they don't of any other private school. And teachers in private schools aren't required to be certified or licensed by the state - only accreditation agencies can do that for private schools.
ReplyDeleteThis isn't necessarily a bad thing, as many education programs only succeed in watering down core subject knowledge. Real academics despise ed majors - with good reason.
so this article you are quoting Gryphen is misleading at best, error filled and agenda driven at worst.
"Real academics despise ed majors - with good reason."
DeleteProof please?
Define "real academics", please.
Define ed majors, please.
What's wrong with education majors (AKA wanna-be teachers)? You obviously have strong opinions about that since you followed it by saying "with good reason."
I'm not sure what you mean by "real academics," but as a college professor with a PhD, I guess I qualify.
DeleteI don't despise Ed majors. There is value in teaching people how to teach. Some of the worst teachers I've ever seen are professors. And some of the most innovative, knowledgable people I know are public school teachers.
You remind me of a bitter woman in our town who couldn't get hired by the public school district. She was eventually hired by a religious private school where she taught, I presume from her comments, for many years. She carried a life-long grudge against public education and was very vocal about it at the public school board meetings and in the paper. After her first couple rants, nobody listened, kind of like with the Tundra Turd.
DeleteI agree that the credentialing process is flawed. I have a doctoral degree, but it is not in education; therefore I would not qualify to teach in any public school in my state. I may tutor kids for free, but not teach even first graders. I think something is wrong when, say, a PhD in engineering is found unfit to teach science to a high school class. I'm not knocking the many qualified teachers out there, but the system could use some changes.
DeleteTeaching early elementary grades is a very specific skill and can be very challenging. I would not want a first grade teacher whose only credentials are a PhD in engineering. My daughters' first grade teacher used to be a computer engineer but returned to get a masters in education because he had a passion for teaching. Education programs teach theory, strategies, and child development. Elementary school educators are devalued because everyone thinks is easy and they can do it.
Deletewhy are ed majors despised? many have little interest in education, and do it because "I like kids." Many ed programs (especially graduate) require much lower GPA's to get in than other disciplines.
DeleteTheir papers generally reflect this lack of intellectual curiosity, and a "wanting to be told what to do and think" leading to more concern on their part with silly packaging - do you want a cover page? How many sources? I don't know what I think about [assigned topic]. They aren't interested in depth of knowledge and the consequences in the classroom is that they teach only to the standard of that specific grade and have no clue what is required should the student go n to higher learning/real life. I have spent a large part of my college teaching undoing bad middle/high school habits inculcated in students by their ed major teachers.
The old joke told by many a colleague:
"How can you tell an ed major?" Professor sneezes in class, and all the ed majors hands shoot up as they chorus - "Will that be on the test?"
So yes, in the elementary grades, teaching (majoring in education) may be more important than subject matter.
By middle school and certainly by high school, the focus in undergrad should be on subject matter (4 years), with an ed certificate on top of that, not the current system which substitutes a ton of ed courses for subject area. By high school, an MA or 3-5 years experience in a related professional field should be required.
"Despise" seems like an overly strong word. I feel sorry for students who are unprepared or overwhelmed. I feel less sorry for the lazy and apathetic ones, but I don't despise them. The students I despise are the entitled ones who give off an air of "I pay your salary" and the ones who act like assholes to other students in class.
DeleteThen again, a professor in my graduate program (the head of my concentration) was one of the worst teachers I've ever had. He liked to say that Professors don't teach, they profess.
As a college professor, I've had my share of tragically unprepared incoming students and questionably intelligent early education majors. Part of the problem is the largely thankless (and grossly undervalued and underpaid in most markets) job of a teacher doesn't always attract the best and the brightest. This is unfortunate.
I'm lucky to live in a place with an outstanding school district (although we did move here on purpose and sacrificed a larger house and more disposable income) with dedicated, smart, well-paid elementary school teachers.
9:59, Yes - and no.
DeleteThe troubles I see with your argument are legion, but let's just look at some of the problems.
First: Many states DO require advanced degrees. In fact, many states require a certain number of credit hours be earned EVERY YEAR, generally earned during the so-called summer vacation. The states REQUIRE this education, but they don't like to PAY for it!
Problem number two: The theory of education is important at ALL levels of grades. The psychology of teaching (plus other things) just varies from grade group to grade group.
Three: You make it sound as though MOST of the ed majors have the troubles you describe. Complain to your Dean of Students about the acceptance standards!
Four: Your old, stupid joke is as bad as another old stupid one: Those that CAN, DO. Those who can't, TEACH.
Definitely NOT true, is it? I mean, obviously YOU teach - or intimate you do since you discuss their poor GPA's and papers and things of that nature.
Five: They "do it because I like kids". Personally, I would not WANT a teacher in the classroom who DIDN'T like kids! That attitude is so damned obvious to a child it isn't funny - even the youngest ones can recognize that and react accordingly.
In fact, I would say that it is one of the pre-requisites of a good teacher. That, along with a strong DESIRE to teach, should be the two prime drives.
Did it not ever occur to you that there may be other problems with the dreaded ed majors that aren't the fault of the teachers they had - ESPECIALLY TODAY!
Yes, the teacher is supposed to teach things like subject matter, but they are NOT responsible for the failures of the parents who don't take the time to try to make their children do the work or just plunk their little ones in front of a TV to "keep them out of my hair"! Discipline is the job of the parents. Not the teachers.
I have met very few teachers - most of them having once been the horrid ed major - who weren't extremely dedicated to their profession and try exceptionally hard to provide the children with what they need and is in their bailiwick. NO teacher can teach the children that which their PARENTS should be teaching them and still do their job for the rest of their students
Unfortunately, in some cases (and the numbers seem to be growing) local school boards are trying to keep parents out of the decision making process. And NO ONE knows everything, which seems to be the attitude of said boards (knowing everything, that is).
Still, unless the parents are involved the teacher's job is tougher. But even allowing for YOUR dis-illusionment with teaching them, there are others like 6:41 above, who disagree with you.
Oddly enough, I got an extremely good education in my home town in SC! Of course, that was in the early sixties before the politicians got their stinking hands in the till and on the wheel. Back in the days when parents actually participated in things like the PTA and going to board meetings. And it was also when teachers WERE required to have more advanced degrees as they taught the older groups. And specializing in their specific subjects.
I'm not certain what the current requirements are, but when THOSE requirements were in place EVERYONE who was capable got a very good education!
Leland, "many states do require advanced degrees?" Nope, nope and nope. Like the physics prof above, those with advanced degrees but no ed certificate can't even get hired. those with certs AND advanced degrees are considered too expensive. I've made a couple of forays into ed programs, both traditional and accelerated/career change, mainly to write about them. The strategy the programs counsel is to "hold back at least one course on the grad degree (not ed) and get hired BEFORE you complete or you will NOT be hired. it is almost impossible to get hired if you have teaching experience and a grad degree in a public school. There may be a few uber top echelon, very rich school districts in which this is an exception. haven't enountered them yet in neighborhoods I can afford to live a commutable distance to.
DeleteThe let's go on to clarify more in your post, Leland, and evidently mine. First, the GPA issue isn't exactly a secret - it's been all over the ed publications for years, and can be discovered simply by looking at any college's website.
DeleteI'm not suggesting that teachers shouldn't like kids. But they need to value education equally or more. the types I'e met want to PLAY with kids. That's easy. Getting them to learn is tough and if you yourself don't love learning/your subject matter, it's not happening because kids also see through that disingenuousness very quickly. e.g the English ed major student who "didn't read, and it didn't matter, because she was only going to teach up to fifth or sixth grade anyway."
Continuing ED is not the same as an advanced degree. You should see the crap that passes for CE. (or PD) One teacher took a class in "how to conduct a rat experiment in the classroom. It was a weekend workshop.
You've mightily contradicted yourself, BTW, in referring to advanced degrees as both required and WERE required.
I do both, Leland. I love my subject, passionately, and I like to teach, to see others get as much pleasure as I do from it, and as a result be critical, contributing citizens. With that comes the realization that at my level, education is also a weeding process - some simply never will, by passion or ability, be able to master this subject. In that respect, I'm also the master with an apprentice - not all make it. Not my fault. But a large part of what I do is modeling and inspiration.
Ah, then there's the old "discipline problem." Sorry, not biting. I agree that manners and civility are lacking. THAT is another reason many of us homeschool. I like my kids. Leaving them, as many schools do, to seek the level of their peers with the ever longer forced incarceration with ONLY their chronological age group is torture to man kids, especially GT kids.
Yes, we've rested for many years on the diligence and valuing of education of the early 20th century. We are now reaping the problems of "everyone gets a trophy." Look to European methods for an answer. "Tracking" is not a dirty word..
Do me a favor on this, please. Define "advanced degree" in your lexicon?
DeleteOK...here is the key thing..he has 11 siblings. Now tell me, when did the mother have time to use the bathroom, let alone teach expository writing? This reminds of those people living off their TV checks while they have child after child..the Duggars? What they were doing was neglect. What Josh's parents did to him is also neglect. And the school system (or the state) should have stepped in when he was beggging for help. I know, parents' rights. Nanny state. Gee, sometimes, it is the right thing to do.
ReplyDeleteI wanted to home school, but not for religious reasons. I just thought my kids would get more attention and learn faster. I have a degree. I had a teaching certificate. My husband insisted they go to public school. My solution? I got a job in their school as a parapro. I got to know the staff, the curriculum. I made damn sure they could read and well, were taught writing, grammar, spelling beyond what the school offered. I chose their teachers every year I could. My son in 3rd grade was writing footnotes for a little paper he did...it wasn't required, but he had used materials for the paper, and it needed to be cited. Both my kids were National Merit Scholars. Our daughter got a full scholarship to a private school, as well as to Law School. Our son is a Big 10 educated chemical engineer with a great job. I am so proud of them.
We need to support our public schools and universities. Teach your kid whatever you want at home, but let them experience the world. If they don't end up with your severe religious beliefs, so be it. At least they will know there is more to the world than your kitchen table and their siblings' diapers. I have to wonder if Josh's mom wants her kids home so she has company and help. I think his father should be held to account too. 12 kids??? Seriously?
Ok Lynne, solution for you - but not every mom who wanted to could do so in the district their kid is in. And public schools - mine in particular increasingly shut parents out. We've done homeschool (for academic reasons) cyber school (a public version out of Pearson education - disastrous and a horrible experience for all involved - lying principal, isolation dumbed-down, disorganized curriculum, etc.)
DeleteHomeschooling was a great experience for us, my kids did very well, including the one now in public school who is two years ahead (three in math). They lacked no experiences, can converse with people of all ages. Oh yeah, and one who would have the same problems as Josh - algebra is just NOT his thing. But as the high school principal said - outside of S (t)E(m) fields, most people go through life not using it. we should be more concerned about geometry, which lot's of people use everyday.
Brava, Sally in MI! EXCELLENT response.
DeleteI think that in theory parents should have this right. However, I strongly believe that any parent who wishes to exercise this right must first prove, by taking an examination, that he or she is qualified to do this. The exam should be at least equal to an SAT, or perhaps even a GRE. After all, the parent-teacher should be at least as well-educated as a graduating high school senior; better yet, he or she should be as qualified as any college graduate. I think that these tests would be totally reasonable, that at least 90 percent of the fundies would fail them, and that the problem would then be solved.
DeleteAbsolutely 8:14. In my state, you do not even need a GED. No reporting. It is a red state, and they like voters uneducated.
Delete8:14 I agree. We are now seeing second generation homeschoolers. A busy parent of 6+kids can't do much one on one teaching in the best of situations. If that parent never learned today's High School material, he/mostly she can't possibly teach to her children what she doesn't know. The country does have an interest in an educated electorate and workforce. We have to use that, to start requiring some accountability. Otherwise, we are stuck with an uneducated underclass.
DeleteElizabeth 44
I know several adults that were home schooled here in Oregon. They participated in extracurricular activities in our local school and had to pass the same achievement tests that the other kids did. But the situation in Virginia is entirely different. And, as Josh says, they don't have the educational background for college. But I suspect that is the point with these parents. They don't want their children questioning their beliefs.
ReplyDeleteIt is state by state - my state doesn't let kids participate (until this year, law changed) in any extracurriculars. Though I have to pay taxes for it. It would be great if they would - make it more like college - take the classes you want. let's face it - I can teach the humanities, and there are people out there like a physics prof friend, who can certainly teach the math - but most people can't do drama, or shop, or full lab bio beyond middle school. (Though the lazy-assed, wet behind the ears, blonde bimbo "teacher" they had last year in 7th and 8th grade honors biology wasn't much better - two hands on experiments all year, WTF?
DeleteVirginia, with absolutely no oversight on religious homeschoolers, is a beacon to those in surrounding states who want absolutely no oversight whatsoever over their "homeschool".
DeleteMy taxes pay for all kinds of things--for example, to provide electricity, water, fire, and police protection to churches I don't believe in. You want your kids to have a public school education, put them in public school. You think you're better than public school, stay away from public school.
DeleteI see no difference between the situation Gryphen cites and plain, ordinary truancy. The result is the same. In either case, there is a high likelihood that the children will never become productive citizens, and a higher-than-average likelihood that they could become criminals.
Deletesee HSLDA (ugh!!!!!)for the reason there is no oversight.
Delete@7:20a.m. Problem is, the public school doesn't have a curriculum to fi tmy kids, and refused to make the simple accommodation that would have solved the problem - no gifted ed until 4th grade? Say what? Kid was reading before Kinder. We're talking EXTRAcurriculars. Note that word. No reason why, if there are state tests to take, that all kids who pass those tests shouldn't be allowed to participate.
DeleteI don't have any problem paying for public education and choosing or not to use it- but the state of the art football field and rotating stage? Up yours.
10:05 Very few schools can do a good job of educating the gifted child. The funding isn't there because there is a general feeling that the gifted will survive without anything special. It is "elitist" to have gifted programs. I'm one who fought the system when my gifted daughter was going to school. I also did what I could when I was in Special Education.
DeleteElizabeth 44
10:05, I happen to completely agree with you about the football field and the rotating stage. I can see a playing field and maybe an arts stage, but given the necessity to choose between a pro football field and good scholastics, I'll take scholastics.
DeleteIt used to be that guys were required to take gym - so they could be in some sort of physical conditioning for the military draft.
Before anyone jumps my bones, I understand that a well-rounded education needs to include physical conditioning and the arts and such. But that's not what he is saying. At least, I think not. He is saying that paying for all the FANCY crap is a waste.
However, 10:05, you are failing to comprehend one thing - especially in the south (and a lot of other states, as well). SPORTS - especially football! - is far more important to many parents than school will EVER be! It has reached the stage that they feel there will be nothing in their life ever if they don't have football and the "heroism" crap that goes along with it.
And far too many high school football stars DON'T have anything else happen in their lives since they LIVE for those days! That's why they appear always as such sad losers - always living in the past.
Too much emphasis on anything in school is not good. It takes away from one of the important aspects of school: recognizing how to be a functioning member of society.
But that may just be me.
I agree that competitive sports should be completely axed in public schools. I also think any kid who gets regular exercise outside the school--non-school swim team, gymnastics, dressage, ice skating, hockey, whatever--should be excused from having to stand around a stupid stinky school gym waiting for their chance to do something interesting.
DeleteHowever, most homeschool parents are up in arms and demonstrating in the streets to get FREE football and basketball for their homeschooled kids. They're too good for public school, but they want the free coaching, field, and playing time of high school sports.
Home schooling jeopardizes the country by producing ignorant and uneducated people. Through the decision made by parents, young people are deprived of a basic right: a quality education. Unless parents have a solid academic background in all subjects they should not be allowed to home school. I watched a reality TV show for a few minutes where a mother was trying to home school over a dozen children- it was obvious that indoctrination, not learning, was going on. Our young people now have to compete globally for good jobs and they need to have the best education possible to help them in this task.
ReplyDeleteTry it again, asswipe @ 4:38. religious homeschooling or lax homeschoolling laws. My idiotic red state is currently siphoning money from public ed to fund via voucher private schools. since the ONLY options in my area are religious, my kids are stuck with public school, and if it gets much worse (sorry, your kid may be dropped from the bricks and mortar honors class because we have no room, but he can take it online - WTF online sucks) they will be back to homeschooling - where we go to museums, attend college level lectures. Is it a great education? NO, but better than online courses - and I've taught online to see what it was like, so don't even bother going there.
DeleteThat's a pretty rude and juvenile response to a valid and politeley stated point of view. One would think that someone who claims to have taught online courses would have a broader understanding of the subject and more adult reaction. Or at least a better vocabulary.
DeleteGlad that you are in a financial position where you have the choice to stay at home all day to home school your kids so your kids don't have to be "stuck" in public schools with the rest of us. Maybe it's better that way for us, too.
Not @4:38, but someone who agrees...
Why would you call the OP an asswipe? What a bizarre overreaction.
DeleteGeneralization that all homeschooling is equal call fro such a reaction. And this is a blog post - I'm not writing for edited publication or an academic audience. I consider it more conversational.
Delete"Generalization that all homeschooling is equal call fro such a reaction."
DeleteNo, it doesn't - you're just venting. And your excuse for it is what is known as rationalization.
An example of generalization would be your remark that "online courses suck".
Sorry, but just because you are commenting on a blog doesn't mean you can overreact with such venom and not get called on it. I don't care about the "swearing" and I certainly have written worse things in this comment section about Sarah Palin and other dimwits and assholes, but the OP wrote nothing that warrants him/her being called an "asswipe." You obviously have your own issues with public education to deal with.
Delete4:38 I may be the last in the comment line, but I agree with you absolutely. It is very much a concern I, too, have voiced. I don't understand the first comment at all.
DeleteElizabeth 44
Yeah!!!! 10:37 has access to a dictionary. You want reasons that online courses suck? Gryphen doesn't have the bandwith. You want to see proof? try this:
Deletehttp://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/news/mooc-completion-rates-below-7/2003710.article
Then read glassdoor about Western Governor's University.
And understand this - Any online course that does not use a testing center is junk and should be looked at suspect by anyone hiring an individual with online courses on his/her transcript. The universities are handing our degrees to a name, with no bother to verify the person is who they say they are. Their is springing up a variety of underground sources to "take x course for you." Yes, plagiarism of papers has almost always been a possibility, but in class tests have minimized it to an extent. This should scare the beejeesus out of everyone. So now we have online courses at K-12- and if parents will neglect their kids instead of homeschooling, as the comments here read, there are parents who will also take the online course for junior.
5:24, that was just RUDE - AND uncalled for. Because YOU had/have a bad situation does not give you a ticket for being crude, rude and crass to anyone else!
DeleteHaving said that?
4:31, you also have a problem. You have made a flat statement which can be easily proven wrong! There ARE good home schoolers - and good home schools. They just aren't that common and very rarely religious.
So you watched a reality TV show. So what? ONE show "for a few minutes? That's like saying you read the first chapter of a book and the whole thing was lousy. And a TV REALITY show? Come ON. Did you really mean a TV reality show?
I have YET to see ANY TV reality show that wasn't crap. (But then that's me. It's because those kinds of shows I decided to get rid of TV service entirely!)
My problem with home schooling isn't the reasons someone subjects their kids to it (unless it is for religious isolation or the like). Rather, it is the lack of verification that a student is actually GETTING a decent education. Some states do try to verify a student taught at home is tested properly and CAN do the work. Many do not, but some do. It needs to be ALL states - with decent verification - if this stuff continues.
But no home school can teach interaction with a kids peers!
And if a family decides they want to brainwash their kids with religion at home, that is their right. I personally feel it is detrimental to the children, but it is their right. Better at home than in school!
I have never approved of homeschooling, religious or not, although I am far more suspicious of religious homeschooling because this poor kid's situation is what I envision.
ReplyDeleteLisa - you are ignorant beyond belief.
Delete5:25? Why is she "ignorant beyond belief"? She is merely expressing her opinion and giving her reasons for that.
DeleteShe says she doesn't approve of homeschooling that is based on religious reasoning exactly BECAUSE of what this student (and his siblings) went through (and are going through). What is wrong with that? What makes her ignorant beyond belief? (Yes, she did say she didn't like homeschooling at all. Doesn't change anything.)
SHE has a concrete example. DO YOU?
Further, many of the people on IM agree with her. States that do not REQUIRE proof that the student is actually learning up to the minimal standards of the requirements are actually almost dangerous and cause more problems than you will imagine since WE will have to PAY for these poor kids not being able to get decent work if it keeps up.
Are there good home schoolers? Certainly. Are there bad home schoolers? Most certainly. And that is the entire point here. Standards need to be set and the home schoolers must to be able to VERIFY the student(s) is(are) meeting those standards.
Does that mean the home schoolers can't teach other things, like their own religious preferences? NO! It just means the student has a CHANCE at life.
Ignorant beyond belief is equating religious and secular homeschooling and further, even types of homeschooling. There are some great classical programs (Which is originally a Roman Catholic program based on the trivium and quadrivium). That program will yield a whole lot better results than the spiraling curriculum of the modern day average public school - and it can be much more rigorous.
DeleteInteresting, 10:10.
DeleteYou seem incapable of recognizing she did NOT "equate" them! She merely said she didn't like EITHER of the types. That does NOT "equate" except in a very limited, personal way.
And it is her prerogative to dislike things.
As for there being "some great classical programs", that is as may be. However, it does NOT negate her right to dislike something. Nor does it give YOU the right to call her "ignorant beyond belief" although you will probably take it anyway, as you have.
Leland, she is still claiming that her "vision" is what homeschooling is like. That simply isn't true. while I agree with you re: testing hell I requested and was denied my kids take the state test. It would "mess up the school grades." Though I just read that the State School Superintendent, Bennett, was more than willing to change the grading system for a campaign donor's charter school!
DeleteSeriously though, how would these tests work? Who decides what grade test the kids get? State tests are geared to spiral curriculum. We used other curriculum. So my kids would be light years ahead in some areas, lacking in others at a particular time. The beauty of homeschooling, or any small private school is that they aren't locked into certain textbooks and curriculum for years at a time. Not working, change it. My kids wouldn't even have been tested n much of what they learned. I'm old school. They knew dative, genitive, subjective. We used terms like predicate Their public school peers were talking about action words. There is no foreign language in our public middle schools, though EVERY damn study out there hows best time to learn is 3-9. SO my kids spent time learning a classic language and a modern. No test for that. Though they didn't play computer games, so wouldn't have known what MS or facebook was, or an operating system until mid-middle school.
For a large number of those being home schooled, her vision IS correct!
DeleteI have often wondered about something. To me the two most important careers in this country are public safety and teaching. That being the case, why are they among the lowest paid? And why are schools so drastically underfunded that we even NEED home schooling?
And if it is a question of religious training, that can be done even while attending public schools - after hours, of course. Perhaps then we could begin to address the problems that come about due to exceptional students and "less capable" ones. Granted, there is no panacea and no single solution is going to succeed.
Personally I find the very idea of home schooling anathema to education - regardless of some people's positive experiences with it. The individual success does not make all attempts good or even decent.
I will agree that the MODERN school technique is nowhere near as good as what I experienced in the early- to mid-sixties, but I believe a good chunk of that is people who don't know their butts from a hole in the ground (i.e., most in Congress) gaining control and manipulating funding.
Good schools require money. And good teachers. (They also require money.) Allowing the destruction of the public school system through breaking out students into all sorts of different places - home school, charter schools, private schools, NO school, many of which take money from the public school funding - does NO ONE any good.
You apparently had a good success. Good. I'm happy for you and your kids. Yours is not the norm. It may be average, but I doubt even that.
Get the funding back into public schools and let it begin its work. Get rid of some of the theoretical techniques used today. Get back to the basics (and yes, put language in early classes!) and watch.
I have no problem with the idea of expanding the education a student gets by having some home schooling done. I mean, you could have taught a foreign language to them. Or hired someone, anyway.
I agree with Lisa, despite what you state. And you have some really good points. But if home schooling needs to exist, it is in teaching things above and beyond what the school curriculum contains.
At one point, this country had one of the greatest education systems in the world. It is dying due to ignorance and lack of funding and all sorts of reasons - including "students jumping ship" and taking our tax dollars with them. Even those of us who had no children pay school taxes. It's for the GENERAL good and is NOT supposed to go to private schools!
Like Lisa, I do NOT like home schooling - ESPECIALLY for religious isolation reasons!
In case you are wondering,I have two sisters who are teachers. Like a lot of teachers, they spend money out of their own pockets to help students with supplies and the like. Why is that necessary? Further, they spend hours every day - at home - working. They are doing things like grading papers and tweaking lesson plans and lots of other school-related things. Why do parents refuse to accept that as work?
In the years I was in QC/QA, I was startled by how little many people knew. They avoided responsibility all day long, and/or trailed behind me like ducklings. They were miserable. Their own parents had been small farmers or unskilled factory workers. Education wasn’t valued because they could live without it. Now the small farms are mostly gone, as are the unskilled factory jobs. It’s a sad situation and religious excuses are making it worse. Too many kids are born (eleven siblings!) to marginal people. I can’t imagine what will eventually shake out. I wish Josh well with all my heart.
ReplyDeleteIt is mostly the marginally or poorly educated people who are having all those kids. And their religions definitely DON'T help that!
DeleteBE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY.
SURE! That I can do!
I am absolutely opposed to home schooling without strict oversight. I've seen the extremes. The good, a couple who have fostered and adopted at least 6 children over the years--many with some level of psychological or developmental difficulties. Both are highly educated and have gone beyond what local schools might likely have done to ensure these kids get appropriate training--from themselves and others they sought out, to address their specific needs.
ReplyDeleteAt the other extreme--well the story you posted pretty much encapsulates that and I am convinced it is more the "norm" than the exception.
I am angry that more people are not recognizing nor mobilizing to halt the concerted efforts to dismantle the public school system--via for-profit charter schools and these "free-for-all", unregulated home school allowances.
The rest of the world is leaving us in the dust in math and science and what little the average American knows about history, as well as current (non-celebrity) events is embarrassing.
Republicans and Corporatists want Americans STUPID and IGNORANT. The next generation of compliant, poverty-wage workers is being very effectively created.
I agree with you in large part, but I can also see teh problem sof oversight. The same ones that crop up in public school - liek this:
Deletetaking my kids to (insert foreign language speaking country of choice here) for the last two weeks of the semester. they're ahead in most subjects anyway. But, but but, they need x # days of school ....
wait a second, they'll be working on language and learning a new culture, and going to museums and..
Oh, that doesn't count!
And you wonder why people choose to homeschool?
By what are you convinced it is the norm? Stats? Generally none available - thanks HSLDA. But we do need to find out, before we throw the baby out with the bath water.
DeleteHoemschooling for religious reasons is NOT the same as doing so for academic reasons. And as long as our red state politicains are bleeding our public school systems dry with things liek vouchers, I will fight tooth and nail for intelligent qualified parents to choose to homeschool, especially gifted kids.
I know a teacher who works for a school district in Ohio whose job is to coordinate with parents whose kids are home schooled to ensure that they are complying with school district requirements. She checks lesson plans and has meetings periodically with parents. When I was living on Elmendorf four years ago, I was amazed at how many kids in our housing are were home schooled. I don't know what the parents requirements were in regards to the State or ASD. But living in the south now, I can tell you that it is easy sometimes to pick out people who were home schooled. To say they are socially awkward is an understatement. To learn how to deal with people and function in a social setting is one thing that is very hard to learn while being home schooled.
ReplyDeleteWhat bs. My formerly homeschooled kids have decent manners and can relate to people of all ages. Most of the secularly homeschooled students I know are similar. OK, the one or two autistic kids are, of course, exceptions.
DeleteTheir now public school mates - well - they food fight amongst themselves, have to have monitors all over the place, and generally resort to Lord of the Flies behavior when adults aren't around. When adults are around, most of them can barely do more than grunt in return to a pleasantry, and eyecontact? Fugedabotit.
3:38?
DeleteGreat! YOU did your job as a parent. You raised your children with manners and understanding and responsibility.
That does NOT mean the rest of the students' parents do theirs! The crappy behavior you describe is NOT the schools' fault. It is the PARENTS'!
As for being able to spot home schooled people in the south? She's right. It's not that hard.
Tim Tebow was homeschooled. Wonder how well he can read.
ReplyDeleteOne of the saddest stories I ever read. What a remarkable kid, and good for Georgetown! Of course the state has a responsibility toward these children- what if that ignorant bastard of a father(did we all note that the wife/teacher was not allowed to talk to the press?) thought it was OK for his kids to go to work at the age of 7? That is rightfully against the law!
ReplyDeleteWhy do so many commenting here talk about themselves, and their own kids? This is about society's responsibility- our responsibility- to look out for this amazing young man. We failed him, because my state of Virginia allows self-righteous homeschooling nuts to dictate his future. Can't we get off our hobby horses on this one and decide what is in HIS interest? Without the name-calling and defensiveness?
Sorry, 6:42, but I went to the full article in the Washington Post and read it. At no point - at least, that I saw - did the article say she was "not allowed to talk to the press".
DeleteI DID see where the article stated she let her husband speak for them. But not allowed? Where? What page? One? Two? Three? Four? Five? What paragraph?
And "ignorant bastard of a father"? Sheesh! Talk about NAME-CALLING! After all, he couldn't have been TOO ignorant if he was running a landscaping business that was successful enough to support that many people! Or do you consider that to be an ignorant field of endeavor? (I feel fairly certain that The Washington Post would have made a point of mentioning any shortcomings along those lines.)
Being indignant can sometimes be a good thing. Being inaccurate rarely is.
As to your last paragraph, I agree, but so do most (and I did say MOST!) of the IMers agree, also. And they talk about themselves and their own kids or other personal experiences because they are sometimes examples of the problems or ways to solve the problems. Only a few actually get into "name-calling and defensiveness".
Ha Leland, you are right, I hoisted myself on my own petard on the name-calling. Not right - you got me.
DeleteSticking with my view in the poor wife, though, and the dad's ignorance. Don't know why you leap to conclusions - inaccurate - about my views on landscapers. My assessment of his ignorance was based on statements he made about his children's education, or lack thereof.
Oh, so now it is your VIEW about the poor wife! May I ask which it really is? I mean was she NOT ALLOWED to talk to the press or did she let her husband talk for them?
DeleteAnd I didn't leap to any conclusions about your views on landscapers. I merely ASKED you if you THOUGHT it was an ignorant field of endeavor. Just a little difference there.
As for the father's ignorance, yes, he is a complete idiot. And in my opinion, that idiocy is the greater because even AFTER his son forced him to see the trouble, he STILL didn't change anything. Or at least, not that I saw in the article!
OH. And one final thing. The quote is actually "Hoist with his own petard". There is no ed on hoist. (Allow for the conversion of the olde english because he wrote petar'.) [By the way, a petard was a small, thrown bomb. Kind of an early grenade.]
It comes from Hamlet and is in the following speech:
There's letters seal'd: and my two schoolfellows,
Whom I will trust as I will adders fang'd,
They bear the mandate; they must sweep my way
And marshal me to knavery. Let it work;
For 'tis the sport to have the enginer
Hoist with his own petar'; and 't shall go hard
But I will delve one yard below their mines
And blow them at the moon: O, 'tis most sweet,
When in one line two crafts directly meet.
You got me agin!
DeletePax?
DeleteThe problem 6:42 is that for every kid like this, you have kids like Ronan Farrow. And then you have gifted kids forced into public school who suffer severe depression or kill themselves:
Deletehttp://www.geniusdenied.com/
read this and ou will understand the flipside of homeschooling from teh religious bent. Then,perhaps, you can understand my frustration and outrage that you would deny parents this right, because other parents abuse it.
3:47, I'm not sure where you get your statistics to be able to claim a one for one ration of good versus bad, but I won't even question it.
DeleteAs for gifted students having depression or committing suicide, I would like to see some numbers. There will ALWAYS be problems of that sort! I'm not saying nothing should be tried for those students. I am simply saying I would like numbers - statistically speaking, I mean. What are the percentages you are speaking of?
And I happen to have BEEN one of those "gifted kids forced into public school....". I suffered no depression and obviously didn't commit suicide.
As for us being able to "...understand the flipside of home schooling from the religious bent" I personally find religion to be bunk, so I doubt I will be able to EVER understand that.
And for the most part I don't give a damn about abusing the parents' rights! I am worried about the STUDENTS. If home schooling is being done some sort of verification system needs to be put in place to protect THEM!
I understand that there are many valid reasons why a parent might choose to homeschool their children. Some parents may be quite capable of providing their children with a comprehensive, quality education at home. However, they are the minority and there should be strict oversight by the state for all families who homeschool. Parents should be required to follow an appropriate, structured curriculum and show proof of progress on a regular basis.
ReplyDeleteWhen parents allow their children to become sick or die because of religious beliefs, they can be and are prosecuted. Education is as important as appropriate medical care, and states should establish standards that parents are required to adhere to if choosing to educate their children at home.
BFS, who decides hat the curricuulm is? what if that curriculum isn't best for my kids and I outrank the wet behind the ears teacher by a couple of gad degrees? Not to mention that I know MY KIDS because they are MY KIDS. And I've bothered to get independent testing done that shows what their abilities are? All of which have been ignored by the school - you want the same teacher to have to OK my teaching? really?
DeleteIf the teacher fails to teach well, do I get to approve their curriculum Shit, I couldn't even get a syllabus or weekly lesson plan so that I could enhance my kids learning with museum trips on the weekends or a movie on topic.
Bad idea overall.
Ok, so parents who allow their children to attend substandard schools - can what sue the school for lifelong support for the kid?
DeleteThis has got to cut both ways.
3:51-
DeleteSo there should be no accountability at all for the parents? The state should just trust that the parent is qualified and willing to put in the amount of time and effort necessary to provide a child with a comprehensive education?
I'm not saying that the state should control every aspect of the curriculum. Each person's individual skills and interests will bring something special to the instruction. The material and educational experiences can be structured to best fit the child's interests and learning styles. However, there need to be some standards so that the child receives an education that will allow them to become productive and happy members of society.
Clearly you have had a bad experience with the education of your child, but the majority of teachers are in the profession because they want to make a difference in children's lives. I suspect, by the tone of your comment, that the teachers you have interacted with are likely relieved that you have chosen to homeschool your children.
@3;51
DeleteThere is a core set of knowledge that is essential for ALL students to have in order to be successful in this world. That core set is tested once a year by a standardized test in most states. All states should require the home-schooled kids to take that test each year to show that the child is learning the essential skills. You may have several degrees, but you know nothing about state standards or common core standards. Otherwise, you would not have made your ridiculous comment. A parent who thinks he/she is an expert in all subject areas is actually the worst kind of teacher.
@ 5:22 if you think teachers are in charge of curriculum - boy, are you wrong. States and committees are. And the curriculum and textbooks are often pre-digested pablum. Vignettes and snippets. Ok for the below average kid- not for gt or even bright kids.
DeleteI have no problem with tests like the Iowa Basic or Stanford, or the explore or SAT/ACT. But the state tests are garbage, geared to the rote learning of a particular grade curriculum. Not a chance.
and BTW, you expect the parent to just "trust the teacher " or worse, the administration. A VERY, VERY misplaced trust, in my experience.
And little do you know - state and common core standards are available on most DOE sites they're largely bullshit and have little relevance to what is required in life or higher ed.
As my recent post shows, there is no problem getting assistance in areas a parent may not be an expert in.
It is why my kids went from homeschool to public school at a certain level of proficiency. This where your bias gets you into a problem. Intelligent homeschool parents realize there are areas they cant teach. We barter, trade or hire tutors or enroll kids in community colleges. You are aware that often public school teachers aren't teaching in their area of expertise either, right?
For elementary school, a college educated parent with a well-rounded education and some intellectual curiosity can certainly teach a child - yes it requires diligence and often, a willing spouse. But most elementary teachers are generalists.
@6:55
DeleteYou have made it clear that you have little to no understanding of the common core standards. Also, I don't know which state standards to which you are referring, but your comments are certainly not true of California or surprisingly, Georgia.
Wow, 6:55, I'm not sure what comment you were reading at 5:22, but I certainly didn't say most of what you claim I said.
DeleteFirst of all, I never said that teachers are in charge of the curriculum. I've spent the past 15 years working in various support roles in an elementary school, and I am very well aware that teachers have less and less control over what and how they teach. I suspect that most states use a curriculum created by 'experts' in educational publishing mega-corporations (read Pearson) who have little or no experience in the classroom. I personally am very familiar with the curriculum being used in my district and visited the website nearly every day this past year in order to align what I was doing with the CC.
I also never said that a parent should unquestioningly trust the teacher or administrator. I DID say that the parents could use a basic curriculum and then supplement it with materials and experiences that best suit their particular child. However, most parents do NOT have training or experience in teaching, nor are they proficient in all of the subjects that a child needs to learn in order to have a comprehensive education.
I would like to think that most parents who homeschool their children DO network with others who can provide instruction in subjects they may be weaker in, but I have too much experience with parents who can barely remember to feed their children, no less find appropriate tutors for them.
I am no fan of the Common Core curriculum my district is using, and I abhor the amount of testing that my students must endure each year, but I also recognize that there needs to be some objective measure of progress.
I am sure there are many parents homeschooling their children who do a wonderful job. However, to assume that ALL children being homeschooled will receive a comprehensive education with no one demanding some level of accountability from the parents is utterly absurd.
It is apparent that you hold a very low opinion of teachers and feel that anyone with a college degree can fill the role of educator. However, it takes a tremendous amount of skill, training and experience to successfully manage a classroom of 25 or 30 young children and keep them on task while you teach them everything they're expected to know by the end of the year. Those who truly believe that 'those who can't do, teach' are seriously mistaken.
Children are our greatest resource as a country. Therefore, it is essential that they are nurtured and educated to the BEST of our ability as a country. There is a core knowledge that ALL children need to acquire in order to succeed in this world and to keep our country great.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I, as a public school teacher for 40 years, have seen great home-schooling and neglectful home schooling. Most online programs are poorly designed with horrible management of credits and curriculum. Religious home schooling can be either great or awful. There doesn't seem to be much in between. However, we have a group in our town called the Christian Home School Association who by and large do a great job. Each family chooses their own resources, but they pool their talents to help one another. One parent might teach astronomy while another teaches calculus. The children of this system have gone on to do great things such as the one who just finished her full-ride doctorate at Stanford in bio-chemistry.
The key to success with this group is that they followed the state standards, pooled resources, joined together for planned field trips, didn't really base their curriculum on religion, and DID NOT use the popular ABEKA religious curriculum. Their kids started school at the same time every day, wore school appropriate attire (no pjs), and had a strict schedule of academics each day. There was no chaos or slacking off. These parents are genuinely interested in giving their children a quality education.
Thanks for being fair. as a forty year teacher, my guess is you are a remnant (meant in a good way) of the real teachers we wonce had, like the guy who wrote this letter:
Deletehttp://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/04/06/teachers-resignation-letter-my-profession-no-longer-exists/
There are far too few of you left. As a child of the sixties and seventies, I had many, my children today, almost none. And that is why we homeschooled.
Hi, Gryphen,
ReplyDeleteI’m a long time reader, lifelong liberal Democrat, and a veteran Virginia homeschooling mom. There are a lot of different issues here, and the biggest problems aren’t necessarily what you think.
Every state has its own homeschooling laws. In Virginia, there are several different ways to comply with the law. About 75% of homeschooling families file under the home instruction law, which requires annual reporting and testing/evaluation. About 25%, maybe more, have a “religious exemption” (or RE) which exempts them from reporting and testing, as well as school attendance. (There are a couple additional options as well which I won’t go into here.)
Now, before you jump to conclusions, this is a lot more complicated than you might think. For instance, there are religious families who homeschool under the home instruction law and irreligious families (including some atheists!) who homeschool under religious exemption. There are people who file under RE because of very strong, very sincere religious beliefs. There also are some people who file under RE for more opportunistic reasons---a lot less paperwork, sometimes no paperwork at all.
Academic rigor or quality does not necessarily correlate with how a family files. There are many religious families (home instructed or RE) who use very rigorous curriculum and test regularly, and there are many irreligious families (home instructed or RE) who take a more relaxed approach. Many RE children have gone on to excel in college and careers. I know one RE child who went on to get a PhD in Physics from a very prestigious university and is now a professor at another prestigious university. I think you’d like her and her family a lot, even though you might not agree with all their political views.
There are a lot of legal and logistical problems with the Virginia religious exemption. The law originally dates back to the 1940s, predating the modern homeschooling movement by many decades. There is some debate over what it was originally intended to address, but it certainly was never intended to apply to so many children and families. Its language is extremely sparse and does not address a lot of important logistical details like how to apply for a religious exemption, whether an application is even necessary, whether the exemption applies to children born after the application is submitted, what happens when the family moves across county borders, what happens if one parent is opposed to RE filing, what happens in the event of the death or incapacitation of the RE filer, whether a RE child is eligible for public school programs and services, under what terms a RE family can change its mind about schooling, and of course, under what terms a RE child or teen can choose to attend school. (And this is just the tip of the iceberg.)
I wonder if it is in part because of Amish or Mennonite communities? religious exemptions are bunk, if a secular conscientious objection isn't available. See vaccinations.
DeleteIf you think Virginia is bad, you should try Indiana. Nothing, zip, zilch, nada. except a tax deduction. Not even registration - and HSLDA likes it that way.
Everyone who has studied RE knows that there are problems. Ideally the law would be eliminated. At the very least, it would be revised to accommodate some or all these logistical issues. But the issue is extremely politically charged, and anyone who dares to bring up even the smallest reform measures will face the wrath of thousands of angry parents, as well as faith-based groups. There also are some genuine religious freedom issues here pertaining to Virginia’s communities of Amish and Old Order Mennonite families. So everyone reluctantly sticks to the status quo, however flawed, the school boards try to stay as far away from anything that would hint at policymaking, and the law stays unchanged. And it leads to stories like this one.
ReplyDeleteBut in all fairness, Virginia school boards and superintendents make a lot of bizarre bureaucratic decisions every year which have nothing to do with religion in any way, shape, or form. For instance, I once spoke with a family where the daughter wanted to move to Virginia from out of state and live with her uncle. Her parents had absolutely no problem with this arrangement, but the local school division would not let her enroll in public school because her uncle was not her legal guardian. Go figure.
O/T, but just read that another school district has opted for arming its teachers. If this was happening in my kids' school, then I would certainly pull the children out and, if need be, educate them at home. This is my question for all the righties who want an armed fortress in every school: what happens when a teacher is armed but is also (unbeknownst to the parents and teaching staff) sexually involved with the children he or she teaches – an unfortunately increasingly common situation in today's schools??
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion -- as a parent whose four children have had a variety of educational experiences (public school, private school, home school, learning center) that it is simply wrong to condemn homeschooling out of hand.
ReplyDeleteThere is tremendous variation within the homeschooling movement. When our family began homeschooling almost 35 years ago (out of desperation because of the inadequate public and private schools in our area), it was not yet identified with fundamentalist Christianity. That crept in a bit later and grabbed the general public's attention to the point that the two soon became synonymous in the public's eye, unfortunately.
Just as with public school, with homeschooling there are success stories and there are horror stories. It really depends on the parents and on available resources. There are parents who chose to homeschool to "protect" their child from the evils of the outside world, and there are parents who choose to homeschool to expand their children's view of the world by exposing them to a variety of experiences they'd never get in public school.
What I learned from my experience is that the basics must be covered and parents held accountable. You can't just say you're going to homeschool your kid and then do nothing. Or just use it as an excuse to religiously program your kids and call *that* "schooling."
Accountability should be via the state, and probably through yearly standardized testing (as much as I don't like standardized testing). If the kids are seriously below grade level for more than a year or two, remedial action should be required so the problem doesn't get worse. Because if kids learn the basics they can go on to all kinds of things on their own. But if they don't, their educational growth is stunted.
I really feel for that poor kid; both his parents and the educational system of Virginia really failed him. I hope he's successful in getting his siblings into school.
Whatever your opinion of homeschooling, you all should read The Year of Learning Dangerously by Quinn Cummings. It's a thoughtful, even-handed, and funny exploration of homeschooling.
ReplyDeleteOh yeah!...Loved taht book - and "The Well-trained Mind" And some Holt books on Unschooling
DeleteFirst, as a parent (and a schoolteacher, at that) I considered homeschooling my son. I ultimately decided against it for two reasons. First, I recognized that even though I teach writing, that doesn't qualify me to teach EVERYTHING. My son's education would have suffered had I not taken advantage of the school system. I suspect that many parents get into home schooling without realizing the enormous amount of skill, resources, and time teaching well requires.
ReplyDeleteThe bigger issue for me, though, grew out of my own background in a home where we kids were kept isolated to "protect us from the world." While we weren't homeschooled, we were kept in tiny religious-run schools, and when we weren't there we were kept isolated--from everybody, not just "the world."
The reason was simple: my parents didn't want anybody "interfering" in their efforts make us "fit for heaven." This included systematic physical, emotional, religious and sexual abuse--and because we were kept so isolated for "religious" reasons there was no one to see what was happening. Nor was there anyone to protect us--in our church that would have been seen as "persecution," and a sure sign that the "time of trouble" was upon us.
I'm not saying that every parent who chooses to home school is abusive, but I do think that homeschoolers need to be overseen--there need to be regular tests to ensure that children are not only learning what they need to learn to participate in the world in which we live, but that they are being given the sort of social and emotional support to combat the inevitable isolation homeschooling brings. After all, that's the whole point of it. For whatever reason, parents who choose to homeschool are choosing to isolate their children from something. I think the questions need to be asked, "What is it they are isolating their children from?" and, "What are the downsides of that choice?"
I'm sorry you had such a dismal childhood, but to characterize homeschooling as inevitably isolating is BUNK. One more time, that is not the experience of those who homeschool for academic reasons. A lot of homeschooled kids are homeschooled because school interferes with the other parts of their lives too much- sports, music, travel.
DeleteFunny,as an academic, I found it very interesting how many of my colleagues homeschooled their kids. And of course, all ended up with grad degrees. You may have not felt qualified,but have you seen what is coming out of ed programs these day? I'm sorry your lack of confidence robbed your son of a great experience.
DeleteThe fact that your academic colleagues have children who end up with grad degrees is hardly surprising, is it?
DeleteSmart parents give birth to smart kids. Parents who value basic education and higher education raise kids who value basic education and higher education.
And, as an academic, you obviously know that the plural of "anecdote" is not "data."
I have only know one person that I think had the ability to home school her children well. She was an English and history teacher. The family had moved for the husbands job and the local schools weren't up yo snuff. She home schooled and THEN the kids were sent to her parents home in the summer for other courses, her Mom was a math teacher and her father a science teacher. Those lids ended up with a better education than they would have in either the public or private schools in Louisiana where they were for 4 yrs.
ReplyDeleteLouisiana, huh?
DeleteNuff said.
a little perspective, folks:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/beyond-his-years--year-old-graduating-from-puc-with/article_b96d8cbb-4780-5097-a6d2-d607bc87d6c6.html
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May 17, 2009 12:00 am • Carmen McCollumcarmen.mccollum@nwi.com, (219) 662-5337
Tyamo Okosun doesn't like to be referred to as a "smart guy."
He sees himself as just another teenager, much like any other, except that he is graduating from Purdue University Calumet today with a bachelor of science in mechanical engineering. In the fall, he'll begin working on his Ph.D at the West Lafayette campus. PUC officials don't know if he's the youngest graduate ever.
Wise beyond his years, Tyamo began reading at a year old and took his first college class at 9.
"I was kind of small compared to the other students," he said with a laugh while relaxing at home with his parents and younger brother in Michigan City.
"I remember hearing someone say 'Is this some kind of joke?'" he said.
It wasn't long before the students began taking him seriously."
And more: http://prairiestate.edu/future-students/homeschool-students/index
ReplyDelete"Take Classes with Us While Being Homeschooled
A second option for some advanced homeschooled students is taking college level classes while still being homeschooled. PSC offers those students a chance to take the equivalent of Advanced Placement (AP) classes while still being homeschooled. For those homeschooling parents who find it difficult to teach foreign language or laboratory science, for example, enrolling their advanced high school students is a good option. These students can enroll in classes such as Art, Biology, Communication, English (Composition and Literature), History, Humanities, Natural Sciences, Philosophy, and Social Sciences."
as you can see from the above, even colleges recognize that there is a need and homeschool students make excellent college students.
This comments section confirms my suspicion that homeschooler parents are fucking self-absorbed blowhearts.
ReplyDelete