There may be a scientific explanation for the vivid near-death experiences, such as seeing a shining light, that some people report after surviving a heart attack, US scientists said Monday.
Apparently, the brain keeps on working for up to 30 seconds after blood flow stops, according to a study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
University of Michigan scientists did their research on nine lab rats that were anesthetized and then subjected to induced cardiac arrest as part of the experiment.
In the first 30 seconds after their hearts were stopped, they all showed a surge of brain activity, observed in electroencephalograms (EEGs) that indicated highly aroused mental states.
"We were surprised by the high levels of activity," said senior author George Mashour, professor of anesthesiology and neurosurgery at the University of Michigan.
"In fact, at near-death, many known electrical signatures of consciousness exceeded levels found in the waking state, suggesting that the brain is capable of well-organized electrical activity during the early stage of clinical death."
This comes as no surprise to those of us who count ourselves as Atheists but the questions surrounding these near death experiences have provided fodder for numerous religious debates, and have been used by the faithful to undercut the non-believers argument.
Personally I always trusted that in time science would answer this question beyond a reasonable doubt and it looks like it may have done just that.
However as we know that will do nothing to dissuade the faithful among us from clinging to the idea that books like this confirm what they so desperately want to believe.
However day by day, study by study, we are coming ever closer to proving Neil deGrasse Tyson right when he said, “God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller and smaller as time moves on.”
The question is, how much smaller does that pocket have to become before it is too small to hold people's faith?
ReplyDeleteIf I was from an alien race arriving from a far distant galaxy in a space ship and saw the state of humanity on this planet, I'd leave this primitive and ignorant species to its own devices.
Maybe in 5000 more years humans will evolve to live in peace, harmony, prosperity for all, and have an enlightened view of their planet and the universe.
Until then, we are stuck with religious militants like Louie Gohmert, $arah Palin, and Ted Cruz who seem to me are the evolutionary equivalent of an ant.
Oooooh -- probably not a good idea to compare those 3 idiots with ants. Ants are the most community-minded of all insects.
DeleteYou seriously think we'll be around in 5000 years?? At current rates of population growth and climate change resulting from that growth and all the pollution and deforestation that comes with it, I don't expect my 6-year-old grandson to see old age. Especially because religious extremists refuse to think and act in the best interests of human survival.
DeleteThere is too much evidence that human consciousness is independent of the human brain for me to doubt that it is. There is also too much evidence that scientists can be every bit as much close-minded, arrogant, and fervent herd members as fundies. They have hounded many a scientific "heretic" who didn't tow the current conventional scientific line. As far as this one study is concerned, I noticed you didn't post the legitimate scientific questions regarding it. Kind of like the way fundies tune out whatever doesn't fit in their narrow world view.
ReplyDeleteRemember when all the "scientists" thought the earth was flat?
Delete"Tow the line"? Are you a tugboat? The expression is to "toe the line," i.e. line up in obedience.
DeleteMy husband was raised Catholic, but wasn’t very religious. He was an agnostic when we got together. He had a near-death experience, saw the paramedics working on him (no pulse). His consciousness was drifting contentedly some feet above them, and he saw the bright light, but knew he wasn’t ready to go there. So, his consciousness went back into his body and startled the paramedics. They took him to the hospital as a precaution.
ReplyDeleteI understand Tyson, and he states his position eloquently, but somewhere between full-on religious pageantry and hard science is the Something many of us have experienced.
Those that don't understand or don't want to understand never will. If you experience it, you have no doubt. I am not a hack, I am verifiably intelligent and I am not crazy. I do not, nor have I ever taken hallucinogenic drugs or any illegal drugs, but I know what I know and I know what I have seen. And no, I am not religious. I like Tyson, but he doesn't have all the answers either. Just as I don't like self righteous religious zealots, I don't care for the self righteous atheists either.
DeleteI recently started taking medicine because my thyroid is off and I have to say that I'm surprised how different i feel. the negative thoughts that used to plague are gone. Just goes to show you that a lot of what goes on is based on chemistry...
ReplyDeleteYeah, I take thyroid medicine and I feel great. I have even lost a few pounds that crept on when the damn thing was out of whack. But comparing a thyroid condition to near death experience? C'mon. Open up. Experience a few things. And yes, I know I have a few incomplete sentences.
DeleteOne thing that Neil can't explain is how this whole thing began. Who or what created the chemical and electrical activity in the first place? Where did it begin? What created the Big Bang? Who or what put in place all the perfect timing of elements to make it so? If there is no God, or no purpose, how did the elements and gasses of the atmosphere begin? Has it always just sat in a space infinitum where there was no beginning and 'create' matter and life? Who can tell us where these things occurred and how they suddenly appeared with no mastermind behind them.
ReplyDeleteA simpler question: Where did it all begin? Out of nothing? Or a black void? Who created the black void? I used to get one of those headaches asking these questions until I found a living God. And all I did was ask Him to show Himself to me. I'm not anymore worthy than anyone else.
That is the "God of the gaps" argument, and that is exactly what Professor Tyson is referring to.
Delete"We do not understand this, therefore God." It is the rationale of a child.
So how do they explain Out of body experiences by people who have "died" and saw their bodies being worked on by drs. etc? Or OBE during surgery etc?
DeleteChemicals?
LOL!
Sorry not buying that, and like dogs/animals don't have souls...
You can acknowledge the presence of a "soul" without being a religious zealot. When you look at a dead person...what's missing?
A bunch of "Chemicals" or the Chi, prana, soul what every you want to call it, Vital energy etc.
Even plants have this vital energy.
Duh.
PS fundies don't think dogs, cats, animals have souls or feel pain.
Of course they don't think plants have consciousness either.
Science can't explain EVERYTHING!
Science can't explain EVERYTHING!
DeleteYET.
Don't confuse energy with awareness.
DeleteI have read numerous accounts of near death, or "after" death experiences, and they have been compelling. However the part that everybody seems to forget is that in order for the story to be related it had to have been stored in a still functioning brain.
Memories, fantasies, and experiences just like megabytes and gigabytes have to be stored someplace. If that someplace stopped receiving and storing them, it would be like they did not exist. And in fact they wouldn't.
The brain is an amazing organ, one that will work overtime to fill in gaps to make sense of a jumble of disconnected and disorienting data. The final product is rarely a true reflection of what actually happened.
And by the way, of course science will be able to explain everything. That will just take time and the courage of people to continue asking the questions while resisting the urge to cling to the first bedtime story that helps them to sleep at night.
Gryph--but what if our brains are like, say, a primitive CPU, but we're all evolving to become more like tablets, and that our memories/knowledge are actually stored 'in the cloud', and our souls are really the energy part of us that just use our bodies while we are here on earth, and we all have to cope with whatever hardware we were born with--I do think as others have mentioned, that the compelling part for me about NDEs is that the soul out of body can "see" the body as it really looks to everyone else, that they describe colors not viewable through their physical eyes, indescribably beautiful music, and a feeling of complete love and acceptance and oneness, a feeling that they now understand ALL, that they always did know, before, and that once they are squeezed back into their ill-fitting body, and have to use their physical brain again, they feel greatly confined. They often come back with ESP abilities and a Knowing that religions are not needed, and many leave whatever church they used to belong to, as they know all they really need to do is to LOVE. Gryph, they come back stating the golden rule.....that's all there is, and, IMO, that's all Jesus was trying to teach us too. I follow what Jesus tried to teach, but I do not think much of the religions that were started in his name.
DeleteSo you mean 'Ghost' was just a movie?
ReplyDeleteI am not religious, but, there is one thing that convinces me there is something to consciousness....when I think bad thoughts (like why doesn't my miserable MIL just kick so we can get the small inheritance) I feel that "someone" or "some thing" heard me. My thoughts do not go unnoticed....does anyone else have that feeling? I can't shake it with any amount of reason.
ReplyDeleteI don't care what anyone believes in regard to God or the afterlife. I just don't want them trying to force me or anyone else to believe it.
ReplyDeleteIf something gives comfort to a believer, I don't care, let them believe it. I don't need to force anyone to not believe in it. That appears to be the same as trying to force someone to believe in something.
If it is true that atheists are more intelligent than people religious people, then less intelligent people might need something to reassure themselves that there is more than this one life on earth.
Less intelligent people also might be more gullible so that they would follow someone who appears to have all the answers. Don't hound stupid people, go after the ones who claim to have all the answers.
It is obvious to me that the most highly visible, wealthy, and most vocal religious leaders don't believe any of the religion crap they push on everyone else because if they believed the stuff in their holy writings, they would know they are going straight to hell.
I can't accept the results of experiments on lab rats as proof that God does or doesn't exist.
One more thought. I don't understand the fear and rage that Christianists have against atheists and agnostics. Maybe that indicates an uncertainty in their 'unwavering' belief?
DeleteExactly, Olivia. How can those begging for dollars evangelists justify living lavishly and not giving most of their money to the poor?
DeleteGood points by all. Guess I'm an agnostic, not adhering to any religion or faith structure.
ReplyDeleteWith all the discoveries and theories by scientists in the last few years (earth like planets, string theories, 11 dimensions, alternate universes etc.) things are getting pretty interesting. Science will discover many more wonders in the coming years. Perhaps one day science will acknowledge there is an "ultimate consciousness" . We'll see...
I read her book many years ago. A friend loaned it to me who thought it might be comforting after I lost my Uncle. What a crock . She contradicted herself over and over again. It was poorly written and her pronouncements would not have stood up to any serious challenge. I thought anybody who accepts the BS she is peddling has the IQ of a kumquat. She was just grifting suckers.
ReplyDeleteI don't think any of this is new--at least I've heard about the dying brain/electrical storm idea before. I think it is irrelevant to tie it to religion though. People (both theists & atheists) seem to want to use science to prove/disprove religion--when one doesn't have anything to do with the other. Fact is, a theistic universe would be in every detail identical to an atheistic universe--at least as far as science could discern.
ReplyDeleterelegion is whaT EVER GETS YOU THROUGH THE NIGHT
ReplyDeleteI had a few "near death experiences" and once my brain woke up during surgery (I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, you're paralyzed, yet can hear and feel pain, but can't speak). Luckily, they had a brain wave monitor that alerted them and they put be back under, but I remember what station was on the radio, what the doctors were "chatting about" etc in vivid detail.
ReplyDeleteI can see why a believer would want to attribute NDE's to spirituality/God/Whatever, because it would seem reassuring and comforting to feel that way. To me, the neurologist and anesthesiologist's explanation of the nervous system and brain waves gave me comfort in what science has taught us so far.