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| North Carolina Senator Richard Burr |
MARTIN: Thank you for your question, Senator. If I didn’t express myself in a way to make myself understood, I apologize. There are no doctors exiting the public system in Canada, and in fact we see a net influx of physicians from the United States into the Canadian system over the last number of years.
What I did say was that the solution to the wait time challenge that we have in Canada -- we do have a difficult time with waits for elective medical procedures -- does not lie in moving away from our single-payer system toward a multipayer system. And that’s borne out by the experience of Australia. So Australia used to have a single-tier system and did in the 1990s move toward a multiple-payer system where private insurance was permitted. And a very well-known study by Duckett, et al., tracked what took place in terms of wait times in Australia as the multipayer system was put in place.
And what they found was in those areas of Australia where private insurance was being taken up and utilized, waits in the public system became longer.
BURR: What do you say to an elected official who goes to Florida and not the Canadian system to have a heart valve replacement? (This reference is to Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams, whose decision to have a heart valve procedure in Miami, near where he owns a condo, rather than Canada, is widely viewed in Canada as a rich man's failure to investigate the care available to him closer to home.)
MARTIN: It’s actually interesting, because in fact the people who are the pioneers of that particular surgery, which Premier Williams had, and have the best health outcomes in the world for that surgery, are in Toronto, at the Peter Munk Cardiac Center, just down the street from where I work.
So what I say is that sometimes people have a perception, and I believe that actually this is fueled in part by media discourse, that going to where you pay more for something, that that necessarily makes it better, but it’s not actually borne out by the evidence on outcomes from that cardiac surgery or any other.
(The ultimate zinger came at the end of the exchange, when Burr thought he had Martin down for the count about wait times in Canada, and she neatly put the difference between the Canadian and U.S. systems in perspective.)
BURR: On average, how many Canadian patients on a waiting list die each year? Do you know?
MARTIN: I don’t, sir, but I know that there are 45,000 in America who die waiting because they don’t have insurance at all.
Ouch! That's going to leave a mark.
I have to admit that I, like many Americans, believed the propaganda that America has the best health care system in the world. It was only after the whole health care debate started that I learned what a pile of steaming excrement that is. (In fact I should thank IM's Canadian visitors who quickly straightened my ass out about the price of care, the actual wait times, and the lies about their citizens coming here to meet their health care needs.
Now after reading this I am kind of on the side of the Teabaggers in that I want ACA repealed as well. Only I want it replaced with a single payer system, so that America can finally have the health care system it deserves.
It's stunning that you would make such an ignorant statement today, Gryphen, that you want the ACA repealed? So those 4.1 million people, including myself, would lose their insurance? How the fuck can you say such a thing? The ACA is the first step in providing people the security and care that they need for health care. WHY IN GOD'S NAME would you want to take it away from us? Please clarify exactly what you mean, because I am sooo upset with what you have written.
ReplyDeleteRead what he wrote again and then read the last sentence slowly out loud.
DeleteDid you not read the last sentence?
DeleteI so agree, the only problem with the ACA is the insurance companies. I believe the right is worried many of us will come to that conclusion eventually and kick the insurance companies under the bus. More Americans ought to get out and spend time in countries that do have single payer. It will shock them how satisfied people in those countries are regarding health care opportunity. And, as soon as most Americans wise up to this the better. We are owned by the insurance companies in this country.
ReplyDeleteAnd shame on Sarah Palin weighing in on this early in the health care debates: her family is covered under the system provided for Native Alaskans. She should be embarrassed by her behavior.
$arah, embarrassed? HaHa. Nothing embarrasses that twit.
Delete$he will never admit that $he has free government healthcare for the rest of her life (as former GINO), and that the rest of her family is covered under the Native healthcare system. The only way $he will eventually admit it, is if WE scream this loudly enough from the tops of every roof.
DeleteAffordable Care Act recovers record amount from healthcare fraud
ReplyDeletehttp://www.examiner.com/article/affordable-care-act-recovers-record-amount-from-healthcare-fraud
The problem with these idiots in Congress is they read the hysteria from the right wing media and believe it. I worked in the medical device industry for 35 years and was in Canada on a regular basis. I watched surgery in both countries and the only difference was the cost of the exact same products being used and implanted in people. The docs and nurses were top rate in both countries and while the docs in Canada typically were paid less they made a damn good living. I never heard complaints about restricted care for necessary procedures. I did hear of times when patients, esp in the NW, were sent to the USA for certain procedures because places like UW were better equipped. There were also cases where people from the USA went to Canada for their healthcare. I don't need to mention the one example who comes to mind here.
ReplyDeleteObamacare Insurance Must Now Cover Gay Spouses, Too
ReplyDeleteHealth insurance offered through Obamacare must cover same-sex married couples the same as they would opposite-sex married couples starting in 2015, the Obama administration announced Friday.
"If an insurance company offers coverage to opposite-sex spouses, it cannot choose to deny that coverage to same-sex spouses," Matt Heintz, director for provider and LGBT outreach at the Department of Health and Human Services, wrote in a blog post.
"In other words, insurance companies will not be permitted to discriminate against married same-sex couples when offering coverage. This will further enhance access to health care for all Americans, including those with same-sex spouses."
The new requirement applies to all legally married same-sex couples, regardless of where they live, Heintz wrote.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/obamacare-gay-spouses
WTF Jesse? You give credibility to the goddamn Tparty? WTF???
ReplyDeleteThe odds of the US going to a single payer (Medicare for all) system are pretty slim.
ReplyDeleteBut the odds for the following events are even longer:
1. Sarah holding an "open" press conference.
2. Asteroid destroying the earth.
3. Any of Sarah's four children graduating college.
4. Spaceship landing on Whitehouse lawn.
5. Sarah as a guest on Rachel Maddow show.
6. Flight MH370 landing in my backyard.
Actually, I think the chance of an asteroid destroying the earth is much greater than any of those other things.
DeleteYou are making me laugh Olivia! Good point!
DeleteI vote for the spaceship landing on the White House lawn as most likely to happen.
DeleteIn response to the first reply, and to the argument that the ACA should be repealed: Read what Griffin wrote-he wants to replace the ACA with a single-payer system. I agree with that entirely.
ReplyDeleteThe ACA is now set up to provide huge subsidies to private insurance companies, subsidies that come from our tax money, and could be used to fund a nationwide comprehensive single-payer health care system. The ACA is an enormous windfall for private, for-profit insurance companies. Health care should not be an insurance issue. Everyone needs healthcare at some time or another. It's not like auto insurance, where not everyone drives, and everyone who does drive will not get into an accident, only a small percentage will. You need auto insurance to cover you only in case you get into an accident, or your car is vandalized or damaged. And that is why the rates are relatively low.
In my application for the ACA, I found that even if I paid the subsidized rates of around $500 per month for my family of three, for the "Silver" plan, I would still be responsible for a $2000 deductible, a 20% insurance "copay" for hospital visits, and copays each doctor's visit, with a $6250 yearly cap. If I were to have another kidney stone, say in my 11th month of paying, I will have paid $5500, then another $6250, as the price of emergency care plus a CT scan would exceed my yearly limit. So with the ACA Silver plan, I will have to spend nearly $12000 to get treated for something that should be totally covered under a single-payer plan. I don't know about the average person, but spending $12k for a couple days of treatment puts a large dent in my life for sure.
And then consider the benefits of never having to pay a premium, never having to worry about being in or out of your plan coverage, never having to worry about deductibles, and feeling like you can go to your or any doctor anytime and not worry about the potential cost for treatment.
The ACA, while slightly better than before, sucks. I agree with Griffin. Single Payer is the civilized way to go, which is why every other industrialized nation utilizes it.
Every physician in my town advocated for single-payer during the run-up to ACA. Unfortunately, apathy runs rampant in my town.
DeleteAgree.
DeleteBut the ACA is the camel's nose.
From there we can amend it slowly and steadily until it is single payer. Or until it is replaced with single payer.
I think the ACA will eventually lead to single payor health care in the US. You are lucky, Anon at 11:03 am, most doctors we know are so entrenched in their thinking that they can do nothing but whine - about all of the new computer recording needed, about how expensive their own health care is - and worry about not being able to afford another boat, another car, a bigger house, etc. I don't feel sorry for them at all.
DeleteBeaglemom
Please let those claiming to misunderstand what I meant be trolls.
ReplyDeleteI expect much higher standards from my visitors.
I think this is the kind of statement that is instantly co-opted by republicans and is easily used out of context (a superb republican skill) to confuse the public and manipulate public opinion. ("See? More and more people want to see Obamacare repealed and replaced. Learn more at gop.com. Vote republican!")
DeleteI love how they use the VA system as an example of a single payer heath care system. It is simply a matter of demand being greater than supply. Just like England post-WWII, when it's popularity created long waits due to demand greater than supply (that is no longer true.)
ReplyDeleteAsk any active duty military member about his satisfaction with the military health and dental care system. It is the same as the VA system except the supply is at least equal to the demand. Often greater. You will get no complaints.
Signed,
Healthy Army Brat.
And, if seniors were asked about their Medicare, they would say they like it! I know I do and have been using it for near six years.
DeleteIn my community in Alaska where there is a military base, military spouses and family access the same doctors civilians do. In fact, Tri-care or whatever insurance the military is utilizing is considered the trump (preferred provider chosen by dentists and physicians) for care around here. It often replaces other insurance companies (especially dental) in our community because there are more military subscribers.So, military and Alaska Native heath are the best to be had locally.
DeleteThe VA has saved my husband's life for the past two years. He was diagnosed with nodular melanoma, usually fatal shortly after diagnosis. His care has been excellent. He's had the latest treatments. Unfortunately it is a very aggressive cancer it has now spread. We aren't going to have a happy ending. But I have had him for much longer than I would have had without the VA.
DeleteI'm so sorry to hear about your husband, Deni.
DeleteI've also heard great things about the VA. I'm glad he is getting the excellent care he needs.
So sorry to hear about your husband, Deni, but I'm sure the VA will give him the best care and keep him healthy for as long as possible.
DeleteMy sister was treated through the VA for breast cancer nearly 30 years ago. Because, at the time, there were fewer women in the military than there are now, and the VA doctors were not used to dealing with a case of breast cancer as complicated as hers, they had doctors from one of the best local research hospitals consult on her care.
Sadly, the cancer was not discovered until too late and she died 2 1/2 years later, but the care she received was excellent, gave her a few more years with her young children, and we could not have asked for better support for our family from the hospital staff.
I feel for you, Deni. As a survivor and having lost family members, it's beyond me there hasn't been a cure found for all cancers. Every second is a gift.
Delete"Now after reading this I am kind of on the side of the Teabaggers in that I want ACA repealed as well."
ReplyDelete------------------------------------------------
I think this is the kind of statement that is instantly co-opted by republicans and is easily used out of context (a superb republican skill) to confuse the public and manipulate public opinion. ("See? More and more people want to see Obamacare repealed and replaced. Learn more at gop.com. Vote republican!")
I would (and have) said something more along the lines of the ACA/Obamacare being a good start, now we have to work to improve it. We will need to implement a true public option and remove private insurance companies, while moving to single payer, the best, cheapest, and most efficient way to deliver excellent health care.
Having just seen Gryphen's comment, I understood what he was saying and didn't for a moment believe that he sides with republicans in regard to health care.
ReplyDeleteI just think that it was said in a way that can be used to claim exactly the opposite and provide support to republicans and their quest to take health care away from people.
Agree.
DeleteWhile I don't usually criticize, I think in this case Gryphen could have expressed himself more clearly.
What the ACA is doing now is establishing a baseline of what we will demand and expect from our health care system going forward; no pre-existing conditions, no recissions, no caps, etc. As the population gets used to these and many more features, it will set the ground work for demanding single payer.
ReplyDeleteIn the meantime, the noisiest people with the most hold over the conservative-controlled media will make damn sure that any cries to "repeal and replace" are classed with the republican demand to go back to business as usual with the added joys of profiteering insurance companies settling in states with the fewest consumer protections and tort reform limiting patients' ability to seek redress, but not providers' ability to bankrupt the patients.
The instant anyone brings up repealing Obamacare, the response should be
ReplyDeleteYES! WE NEED SINGLE-PAYER - MEDICARE - FOR EVERYONE!!!
O.T. Palin is launching her own TV show - Rogue TV. Argh!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/media/2014/03/8541966/sarah-palin-plans-‘rogue-tv’
Oh, yeah. They're never going to invite her back.
ReplyDeleteSarah Palin Will Now Be Posting Her Facebook Status Updates To 'Rogue TV'
ReplyDeletehttp://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sarah-palin-rogue-facebook
I had both experiences of healthcare, living in the US and now Canada. I'd say that the Canadian services are just as good, if not better, than the U.S. One of the reasons is the how much more control the patient has in Canada. In my experience, practitioners give the patient the choice whether they want to go through invasive surgeries or not. Patients aren't pressured to heed their doctor's advice because their privatized healthcare company won't treat them down the road if a condition gets worse. I find that the universal health care allows a person to try to fix things with diet and exercise (if that's an option), and ask the surgeon to wait and see, which our doctors have more of a wait-and-see attitude, without the fear of lawsuit. I found that many U.S. specialists put out the worst case scenario to the patient and put them through invasive diagnostics which, sometimes, increased the patient's worry. Many of these tests were unnecessary, but these specialists were more concerned with not being sued. Unnecessary ex-ray radiation exposure just to keep the doctor feeling like he covered all bases, and so on. And if the health insurance company finds out we didn't 'obey' the docs demands for excessive ex-rays, they later might not pay if they feel a diagnosis suddenly occurs where the patient refused testing. All these problems are eliminated with a single payer system.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing about Canada; when one walks along the inner city and sees the homeless with his only belongings being a shopping cart with a few bags in it, despite the hardship, I know that my tax dollars are going towards this man's treatment or emergency care if he's in withdrawal or very sick. Hospitals in smaller towns know them by name. They come in regularly, with frostbite, etc., and are treated with respect. Some south of the border might call them lazy and moochers, but they are treated with human dignity and respect and they don't have to lay in a ditch somewhere to die. I am thankful for that. I don't mind paying a bit more in taxes when I know an addict is in detox with warmth and fluids and meds to keep him from torturous withdrawal. No one can take care of all the populations problems and the weaker citizens, nor the poor, because they'll always be with us, but the very least we can do, is allow them is human dignity.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your compassionate words. My brother was a street person in a small town in BC. My sister needed to find him in an emergency, and she called the RCMP and they immediately knew who he and where he was and shared with my sister that he was a "good guy" and they were able to make contact. I so appreciated this caring from the authorities. He finally got off the streets and died clean and sober in a motel room. Bless the Canadians who care about so many of their fellow (wo)men.
DeleteI learned that long ago, Gryph, when a friend's parents became permanent settlers in Canada, They did it for the healthcare!
ReplyDeleteI'll take my (ontario) OHIP any day, over the usa's
ReplyDeletei've have two strokes, and a bad car crash, and have never once had to pay a penny
when it comes to health care the usa sucks...
I love it. That nice doctor handed the Senator his ass. I love it when that happens.
ReplyDeleteAnd I agree G, single payer is the way to go. We'll get there. Hopefully sooner rather than later. If we work to get all our young folks out to vote, it would be helpful to the cause.
What I really noticed - just now - is the body language of the senator. Talk about "I'm somebody, you're not!"
DeleteHere's another one who is eternally grateful for universal healthcare (G0 Canada!) where we believe firmly that healthcare is a right, not a privilege. I'm wondering how many scripts for anti-anxiety drugs are written for Americans worried about paying their insurance premiums and co-pays -- millions, I imagine, given that the leading cause of bankruptcy in the U.S. is medical costs.
ReplyDeleteAs for single-payer coming eventually to the U.S., I have high hopes, primarily because the little state of Vermont is leading the way. While their system won't be fully operational until 2017, if it's successful, other states will copy, one by one, just as they have done with gay marriage. Keep the faith, folks!
The wait times vary depending on where you live in Canada. In highly populated areas like Vancouver, BC, the wait times are long. My sister had to wait several months to get an ultrasound of her heart for a suspected enlarged heart. Another relative waited over a year for arthroscopy to repair cartilage in the knee. Other areas of Canada have little to no wait times for the same procedures.
ReplyDeleteI love Canada. When 911 happened, my husband was on a jet when all airspace over the USA shut down. The first night, he was taken to a firehouse where he met a family that took him in. The problem was, they lived in Sarnia (sp?) and it was a six hour ride. One of their family were on a waiting list to get his nose reset *hockey hazzard" He was given pain medications and monitored by his doctor, but it wasn't urgent enough and could wait.
ReplyDeleteWe have two words for people like them and one that explains how much what they did for my husband. "Good People" and "Selfless". We exchange letters, gifts and make phone calls from time to time.
This woman spoke the truth so well, I'm amazed the idiot isn't ashamed of himself.