Courtesy of the New York Times:
Michael Brown, the unarmed black teenager who was killed by a police officer, sparking protests around the nation, was shot at least six times, including twice in the head, a preliminary private autopsy performed on Sunday found.
One of the bullets entered the top of Mr. Brown’s skull, suggesting his head was bent forward when it struck him and caused a fatal injury, according to Dr. Michael M. Baden, the former chief medical examiner for the City of New York, who flew to Missouri on Sunday at the family’s request to conduct the separate autopsy. It was likely the last of bullets to hit him, he said.
Mr. Brown, 18, was also shot four times in the right arm, he said, adding that all the bullets were fired into his front.
The bullets did not appear to have been shot from very close range because no gunpowder was present on his body. However, that determination could change if it turns out that there is gunshot residue on Mr. Brown’s clothing, to which Dr. Baden did not have access.
Six times? Twice in the head?
This fits in disturbingly well with the eyewitness account provided to the FBI by Michael Brown's friend:
A key witness — Brown’s friend Dorian Johnson — has told the FBI that he thought the robbery was a “prank,” said Johnson’s attorney. In an interview with federal agents, Johnson has said Brown was hit by one bullet, then — as Brown pleaded for his life — Wilson fired “five or six” more times.
And when the shooting stopped, Johnson and his legal team have told investigators, the police officer who pulled the trigger did nothing to save the man he’d just shot. “The officer doesn’t attempt to resuscitate,” Johnson’s attorney, former St. Louis mayor Freeman Bosley Jr., said in an interview Saturday. “He does not call for medical help. The officer didn’t call it in that someone had been shot.”
It is pretty clear that this preliminary autopsy report is going to do nothing to dissuade people in Ferguson from believing that this young man was executed.
Which was clear last night as protestors turned violent forcing the Missouri Governor to call in the National Guard:
Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon signed an executive order this morning deploying the Missouri National Guard to Ferguson after a night of continued clashes between police and protesters in reaction to the police shooting death of unarmed teenager Michael Brown.
"Tonight, a day of hope, prayers, and peaceful protests was marred by the violent criminal acts of an organized and growing number of individuals, many from outside the community and state, whose actions are putting the residents and businesses of Ferguson at risk," Nixon said in a statement.
"These violent acts are a disservice to the family of Michael Brown and his memory, and to the people of this community who yearn for justice to be served, and to feel safe in their own homes."
The executive order comes after police used tear gas to clear protesters off the streets of the St. Louis suburb, action that police say was necessary because of shooting, looting and vandalism.
This is very unfortunate as it is clear the people of Ferguson have a legitimate reason to be angry and mistrustful of the police, however others who are using the opportunity to vandalize and loot are undermining the purpose of the protests and inviting outsiders to criticize the citizens as thugs.
It is troubling that after criticizing the police for hitting the streets using armored vehicles while dressed in military gear and wielding assault weapons at the beginning of these protests, that now we are seeing the actual military called out to do essentially the same thing.
I'm very very interested to know about the shot to the right hand and which direction that bullet was traveling. I would think that this could possibly prove that Michael Brown was shot with his hands up, palm out. That's pretty damning and also an extremely traumatic thing for people to watch. I too would be traumatized and angry if I saw a person shot to death by a policeman while his hands were up.
ReplyDeleteIt looks to me like the cop started shooting low and progressively aimed higher...but the shots must have come fast, or you'd think Michael would have lowered that arm in pain.
DeleteI agree. The arm and hand shots seem to indicate hands in the air, even close to the body, not wide. The head shot(s) indicate he was down, kneeling. A classic surrender, and he was shot anyway.
DeleteWHY ISN'T DARREN WILSON IN JAIL????
Good point.
ReplyDeleteThe entire story is horrible. The story that Michael Brown's father was prevented from going to his son's side while the boy was lying in the street is heartbreaking. Can you imagine your child lying dying in the street and you not being permitted to go him?
ReplyDeleteA registered nurse( an RN) one of the witnesses, was also prevented from providing aid and CPR ( though after these autopsy results we know it wouldn't have dome any good)
DeleteFor FIVE HOURS !
DeleteBy many accounts, he ended up 30' from the police car. The new ME says that the head shots were fatal. So, how did the kid end up 30' from the car, if he was "charging" the police officer. (Not that I say he was charging, but that appears to be the only way the officer's actions could be "slightly" exonerated, that's what the police are putting out.) IF he was charging, why did he fall 30' away?
ReplyDeleteNot only that but the fatal shot seems to have gone into the TOP of his head, and exiting out of his face.
DeleteHow does somebody shoot a six foot four inch man on the top of his head if he is not on his knees?
It appears to me that this man was murdered.
What I notice is that all the wounds are to the inside of the right arm, which indicates that his arms were in the air...I call it murder also. And frankly, the protestors have every right to be mad as hell over this and the aftermath.
DeleteMr Brown could also have been falling from the other shots when the last bullet struck his head, or he could have already been down on the ground( which is what I think happened), but like Gryphen stated, there is no way someone could actually shoot a person 6' 4" in the top of their head if they were standing by them, even another person of the same height could not have gotten that angle of trajectory.
DeletePlaying devils advocate. Maybe the officer shot while he was struggling in the car with Brown on top of him. That could be a reason the shots were to the top of the head. Brown staggering 30 feet before falling could happen. If Brown believed the officer knew about the strong arm robbery, that would be cause for him to attack the officer (no one wants to even approach that theory.) The witness is not the most credible to start with. The media is partly responsible for the violence by reporting one side of the story before letting the investigation playing out. That leads to arm chair detectives like you to add to the frenzy around this incident. How about waiting to get the facts before convicting the officer. With all the scrutiny from the State Police and the FBI the truth will come out. How about letting that happen before you start frothing at the mouth and throwing unfounded accusations around.
DeleteNo DGM, witnesses clearly saw Brown running away from the officer who kept firing at him.
DeleteAn initial shot in the top of the head would have killed Brown almost instantly.
I think the current theory is that those shots to the head were the last shots fired. And at that time Brown was moving away from the car not toward it.
DGM
DeleteSorry, but you have no basis for your rant. Eye witnesses, including the RN prevented from aiding Mr Brown, discount your lies.
Gryphen, I would throw caution at taking what has been circulating around in the news to stir the ratings pot, as credible witness testimony.
DeleteWhat witnesses, the only one I know of was Brown's partner in the robbery. Not what I would call a credible witness. All I'm saying is there a other plausible theories that could have taken place.
DeleteThere are many other witnesses, but the police haven't bothered to interviewed them.
DeleteBoy, the trolls seem to think a forensic autopsy report is gossip and just "stirring the pot".
DeleteWell, too bad for you racist trolls, the days of cops shooting down minorities and getting away with it are over. BTW you white people will be the minority in just a few years.
DGM doesn't seem to know that there are at least 4 witnesses, and may be more. One witness live-tweeted the shooting; his tweets have time stamps that correlate with the "official" time of the shooting. He included a photo of Brown dead on the ground and an officer standing near him. You really should read a few more sources. Otherwise, your comments are not really credible.
DeleteAnon @8:58. Just because I say something you don't agree with, it's a rant and lies. Hmm, sounds a little c4pee to me.
DeleteDGM 9:13 AM: What witnesses, the only one I know of was Brown's partner in the robbery.
DeleteIf that is the only one you know about then clearly you have not been paying attention. Perhaps you should do more reading before writing.
DGM There ARE other witnesses. TV reported that they are being interviewed by the FBI.
DeleteBruh's tweets - the guy who live tweeted the shooting
Deletehttp://mashable.com/2014/08/15/live-tweet-michael-brown-killing-ferguson/
No 9:41, an autopsy is an autopsy, what is a joke are you self taught internet medical examiners making wild assumptions and accusations.
DeleteLiz, don't be a moron, even Mike Brown's friend admitted it was them.
DeleteLiz, don't be a moron, even Mike Brown's friend admitted it was them.
DeleteSo people have claimed. Citation, please, of Dorian saying it himself, apparently free of duress.
Ted are you a moron too?
DeleteTed are you a moron too?
DeletePerhaps, but I don't snipe from the shadows. Find a source where Dorian himself says he was there—not just hearsay—or crawl back under your rock.
Jesus Christ Ted. Are you really this dense? Do you even read any news reports or do you just go with your white guilt gut on everything? I'm not being a dick, I just happen to be honest. If it were some onscure fact, I could see asking for backup, but this is all over the web, do your own homework on at least the simple stuff from now on.
Deletehttp://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/15/attorney-dorian-johnson-michael-brown-robbery/14118769/
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ferguson-police-name-michael-brown
Anonymous 5:05 PM, I take it that you are neither Anonymous 12:54 PM nor Anonymous 2:34 PM, since you—unlike them—made the effort to provide a couple of links. Each of those two simply came here to dump abuse on somebody, without adding any solid information to the conversation.
DeleteYou wrote: If it were some onscure fact, I could see asking for backup, but this is all over the web, do your own homework on at least the simple stuff from now on.
I'll accept your assertion that "this is all over the web" and ask, given that, why couldn't either Anonymous 12:54 PM or Anonymous 2:34 PM have provided a link, instead of just mouthing off?
If Anonymous 12:54 PM had written something like, "Liz, I don't have a link handy, but it's all over the web that etc." I would have quietly looked it up myself, and likely provided a clickable link. Since 12:54's comment began with abuse, I felt it appropriate that it should also include a positive contribution.
As for Anonymous 2:34 PM's comment, what can I say? As Anonymous 2:34 PM, he or she has no past history here. On the other hand, you can review my history here over the past five years or so, and form your own conclusion.
When did I last make a statement of fact here without backing it up with a clickable link? When you find one—I'm sure there have been a few—feel free to call me on it.
Meanwhile please lay off the personal insults unless you can back them up.
I read one Tweet in my timeline last night from a member of the media on site that mentioned undercover cops being in the crowds of protesters.
ReplyDeleteThat certainly gave me pause, and I imagine it hit a lot of others in my timeline the same way -- were these undercover cops actually fueling the unrest by throwing rocks and breaking windows? It's not unheard of. Think Seattle, WTO. I'm sure not all those masked window-breaking anarchists were anarchists.
And yes, I know, I feel like a conspiracy theorist even mentioning it (heck, I've been a conspiracy theorist on the topic of Trig Palin for 5+ years now).
The unrest is being fueled by uniformed officers spraying peaceful crowds with rubber bullets and tear gas.
DeleteThe unrest has also been fueled by a few thugs that saw this as an opportunity to loot the stores. Molotov cocktails, rocks, and looting are not what I would call a peaceful protest.
DeleteTear gas? US troops can't even use tear gas on ISIS because it is banned by the Geneva Convention. Why are this cops using it on US citizens?
DeleteTear gas is a generic term. I would bet that the substance used was cs or pepper spray, not the tear gas that was used in WWII or in Middle East.
DeleteEveryone needs to stop playing forensic scientist, and pretending that heresay 'accounts' that you have no way of verifying are in some way facts. This whole fiasco is out of control, and the added layers of bullshit aren't going to help gather the facts, bring back Michael Brown, or heal the town.
ReplyDeleteI just love people like you who want everyone to shut up and not speak opinions out loud. If you were in charge, would you have everyone not discuss this at all and keep their mouths shut?
DeleteNOTHING is going to stop people from talking and/or surmising about any news surrounding this death. Of course we're all waiting for the facts to come out. In the meantime yes we WILL discuss the autopsy and all the facts of the case as they come out.
Keep your own bullshit to yourself. Thank you.
I do believe this young man was murdered. However, I agree that everyone on the blogs has become forensic scientists! When I read the comments, everyone is an expert.
DeleteSorry, but autopsy results are FACTS. Now run along and go pee at the urine cesspool of C4$P.
DeleteReally 8:07, you think that mob mentality and rushing to judgment based on preconceived notions, personal opinions, or hearsay are better solutions than actually allowing the real facts and evidence to steer a proper investigation?
DeleteFor instance, Gryph above at 7:03 says:
"How does somebody shoot a six foot four inch man on the top of his head if he is not on his knees?
It appears to me that this man was murdered."
And yet in the very article Gryph linked and quoted from, the independent pathologist stated:
“This one here looks like his head was bent downward,” he said, indicating the wound at the very top of Mr. Brown’s head. “It can be because he’s giving up, or because he’s charging forward at the officer.”
He stressed that his information does not assign blame or justify the shooting.
“We need more information; for example, the police should be examining the automobile to see if there is gunshot residue in the police car,” he said.
The real bullshit 8:07 is in already determining the end story, while parsing out only the bits and pieces that fit an agenda.
anon at 8:19 am
DeleteNo, I am not an expert, but I got my facts and my information by listening to one of the top forensic Drs , who performed the autopsy, discuss this on TV less than 30 minutes ago.
Anon at 8:45. It's funny how you use the same type of comment used at c4pee to answer anyone that doesn't agree with them. You're no better than them with you're dismissive comments.
Delete8:49 Sounds to me like somebody besides Sarah Palin doesn't like bloggers and their posters speaking out what they think.
DeleteSo what if posters surmise, guess and discuss? What is so threatening about discussing possibilities? Everybody KNOWS we need more information and facts to go on.
I don't see anyone here saying that they've determined the end of the story as you've suggested. And even if they did, what difference would it make at all to the case and what difference does it make to YOU personally? Is someone here going to testify in court? Are posters here official investigators, politicians or lawyers involved in the case? Is that what you're worried about - some poster's personal agenda that could influence the outcome of this killing??
No need to get your panties twisted up over what other people here think, now is there?
Thats right 10:22... let us all just surmise, who cares about the searching for the facts and the truth right?
DeleteIM Blog About: "This blog is dedicated to finding the truth.....,"
10:51 One way to get to the truth is to talk about it. We won't stop talking and you can't make us shut up. Ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Delete11:18 I would never pretend I could shut up ignorance or ignorant people. But I can point out your folly.
Delete2:47 No one is forcing you to hang out with ignorance or read what ignorant people say. Why you even bother on Gryph's blog is beyond me. Take your issue somewhere else. Your entire personal problem with commenters' opinions is yours and only yours. OWN IT.
DeleteWow, no evidence of struggle to Michael Brown (in the independent report), only abrasions on the side of his face and head, no doubt as he felt flat down on pavement.
ReplyDelete2 shots from behind; and the rest from the front. And the officer's wounds (per the police's perspective) are not being released.
These facts point out to the Ferguson police refusing to cooperate, because they know what really happened. Imagine the gall of not forwarding the truth for the sake of the grieving family; it's been 2 weeks already and only today they hear the results of how their child died in his last moments.
Pathologist says that all wounds (except the one to the top of the brain) would have been survivable. If the two last shots (one through the eye and the top of the head) had not happened, Michael Brown would still have been injured enough and it was apparent he was not a threat.
ReplyDeleteWhy did police shoot him point blank at his head, while this boy had his hands up?
I hope justice prevails here, and some long drawn-out trial doesn't ensue. An arrest should happen now.
Correction, the one through the top of the head and eye are from the same bullet, it is also the same bullet that fractured the clavicle( collar bone) in my mind the ONLY way I can see that trajectory being able to do that damage would be if Brown was already close to the ground, or on the ground.
DeleteIndependent autopsy showed no gunpowder residue on Michael Brown's body. The CNN pathologist says there's no reason any scientific pathology report shouldn't be released to the public. And these weren't, even to the extent that the family wasn't allowed to know details. That's the definition of cruelty.
ReplyDeleteIf you're a grown man who can't handle an unarmed 18 year old short of murder, what police force do you belong on?
ReplyDeleteUnless you've attacked by a very large 18 year old man you have no idea what you're talking about.
Delete@DGM
DeleteI do know what I am talking about. As a former RN I have taken people of Mr Brown's size down by myself more than once, 3 times in psych cases and 2 times with the patients having head injuries.
Every RN in the country knows how to subdue a patient for any cause, so please explain why the cop that weighs about 185-195( my guess after viewing his pic) couldn't do what I could do at 115 lbs?
Hey! The famous takedown nurse is back so she can boast about her takedown skillz!
DeleteYou're right it can be done, I'm a 20 year retired police officer and have had to handle situations like that a number of times. If Brown was struggling with the officer and knocked him into the car as suggested the officer would not have been able to control him. All I'm saying is keep an open mind, the whole story is not out there yet. And as far as your examples, I'm sure you had other RN's, doctors and other staff there to jump right in and help.
Delete@DGM
DeleteYes, nurses, as well as drs, ETMs, paramedics and police officers are all trained to take people down without causing bodily harm to the person or themselves.
Actually in 3 of the cases I did not for well over 5 minutes, I worked midnights in a small local hospital with one RN and one Dr on staff in the ER, and since the Doc was in surgery twice and in the process of stitching up another patients hand another time, I was the only one there. And if a police officer is not able to perform a simple task , such as controlling the person they are arresting then they shouldn't be on the job.
DGM-retired cop.
DeleteThat explains everything.
I spent over 40 years working as an RN in all kinds of "tight" situations, both as a staff nurse earlier on and then as a nursing manager.
DeleteNever did I have anyone, security, other RN staff, orderlies, etc. who could single handedly subdue and control an enraged or combative or mentally ill patient. Often I dealt with the situation alone, keeping someone on staff nearby to call if I were attacked while trying to defuse the situation, not with my physical force.
I am unaware of any educational institution that provides training for "small statured" RN's to "take down" a hyper crazed individual.
I have had to call for help to get a psych patient to a facility with a court order, at least 8 times this past decade. BEFORE THE EMT team will come to transport the patient from home to the psych facility, we must have officers come to subdue the individual and have them in restraints PRIOR to the EMT arriving on the scene.
The EMT rule is that they do not come to the scene until potential harm from the combative patient is guaranteed.
It is important that no one assign repetitive heroics to the medical personnel so that families with out of control psych patients do not expect super human intervention to be the code of the day.
I am an RN also. The public may be unaware of how often we deal with patients who become violent kicking us, biting, pull hair, throw things, did their nails into our arms or even punch us in the face while shouting obscenities.
DeleteIf we are alone we get a safe distance and wait for back up. The police officer had that option as did George Zimmerman. The option to shoot to kill is a choice.
Applauding 10:41 AM!!! I am (was) also an RN, now retired. But I worked in Peds and Neonatal ICU, so it was parents, not patients, who could become violent. Yes, we wait for back up! We don't grab the nearest fire extinguisher and try to subdue a violent person, either by spraying or bashing. "The option to shoot to kill is a choice." YESSSSS.
DeleteMaybe it's because the US Army trained me or maybe I had better practical training and not all small hospitals have a security staff.
DeleteAnon @12:40. Maybe it's because your full of BS. If you're that much of a badass, you need to change your career to cage fighting.
DeleteAnon@ 10:08. That's right, retired Law Enforcement, it gives me the ability to look at this from another perspective. I've been trained to look at all the angles, not just jump to a conclusion. Are there bad cops. Of course there are. Did this cop step over the line? That isn't known yet, all there is is a lot of speculation that you are eating up.
DeleteYep, as a retired cop you will defend that blue line no matter what. You are as bad as the cop that murdered Mr Brown.
DeleteAnon@4:13 Where do you see me defending the blue line no matter what. I acknowledged there are bad cops. All I'm saying is let the investigation play out. You know nothing about me, other than what you have seen me post, and what you have conjured up in your imagination.
DeleteWhy does the crowd fire bomb privately owned businesses (gas station, liquor store) why don't they fire bomb the police station?
ReplyDeleteIt's time for the street violence to end and get these police criminals in court. That's our system and it takes time. The AG ordered an outside autopsy, but hasn't yet started a criminal investigation about the cop who shot the man, or the discriminatory practices of the whole police dept.
Is it the public? Or is it the planted off duty cops?
DeletePlease, was it Oswald, or did 15 other people shot at Kennedy?
Delete@7:51 AM:
Delete"The AG ordered an outside autopsy, but hasn't yet started a criminal investigation about the cop who shot the man..." The DOJ are investigating the shooting. That obviously includes the cop who shot Brown. They also sent 40 FBI agents to go door to door asking for information from anyone who may have seen the shooting. That should have been done by the Ferguson PD, but they didn't do it.
If as has been alleged the whole department practices racism, getting rid of one cop won't solve the problem.
Delete@9:57 re: the 40 FBI agents
DeleteTrust is not abundant in the Canfield Green Apts. area. Personal safety is a concern for the residents and they may/may not feel secure in discussing what they saw/hear with FBI agents. Would you really be interested in getting involved in ongoing circus? Would you risk saying anything that might exonerate the officer?
FBI might mean safe/fair/reliable to people of a certain skin color and class, but for many people, FBI is someone you want nothing to do with.
10:09 PM, I agree with everything you said. But the local PD should have TRIED to get accounts from eyewitnesses, and they did NOT. That's a routine part of any investigation, right? If I lived there, I don't think I would be brave enough to speak out. But I would think the FBI is more interested in getting the truth than the local PD.
Delete@11:50 local PD should have TRIED...
DeleteYou are so right. The local PD (and the county PD) didn't even bother to get a statement from the young man that was with Michael Brown. The handling of this case is a disgrace. And a great big red flag that the aim of all the police involved was to claim Michael Brown was the problem.
I've been watching this entire thing on TV. Suspect one black kid received bodily harm last night because a bunch of police grabbed him, put him on the ground, surrounded him, blocked the view and it appeared a couple of them did something to him because you could see his legs twitching. They then picked him up and carted him off to a truck.
ReplyDeleteI do NOT trust the police after watching this since Sunday. They are a proven racist, nasty bunch already.
Now the National Guard has been called in and I see this getting much worse and spreading throughout the country. The cops appeared to use excessive force since Sunday!
The cop that killed the kid needs to be arrested and put on trial. That cop is still being paid for Christ's sake and it's proven he killed the kid - it' on tape/video and there were witnesses!
You're right it is known that the officer killed Brown. What isn't known is the facts surrounding the death. The shooting was not on video, Brown robbing the store is. The witness you talk about is believed to have been with Brown during the robbery. Have you ever had to stand and face a very hostile mob? The police are damned if you damned if you don't in this situation. You want this all tied up in like a CSI tv case, it doesn't work that way.
Delete@DGM
DeleteBut you are ignoring the fact that at the time of the shooting that the robbery attempt hadn't been reported yet.So please tell us how the officer knew there even was a robbery or what the suspect looked like? Was the officer telepathic? Does he operate off some form of ESP? BTW there are many witnesses, not just his friend. BTW how angry was the white middle aged female pastor when she got shot with a rubber bullet?
DGM, I've never seen you posting here before. Yet you're all over this post defending the cops. It's interesting you use the word "robbing" instead of shoplifting. The mob might have been a little less hostile if they hadn't been met with cops dressed up like they were invading a country, and if they hadn't had automatic weapons pointed at them. You don't point weapons at anybody unless you are ready to shoot. If you're a retired police officer, you should know that. The police handled this situation in an outrageous manner from the very first minute, not allowing the father to go to his dead son, leaving the body in the street for five hours. And then they showed up with all their military toys to INTIMIDATE people who were being peaceful at the time. If you had read any historical accounts of this town, you would know that police harrassment and verbal abuse of the Black citizens has a very long history. And if you can't see how that might be an issue with this "mob", let me explain it like this: If you beat a dog enough times, it WILL become vicious. It WILL bite.
DeleteDGM, what does the video of Brown stealing some cigars have to do with the shooting? You seem to think the two are somehow related??
DeleteTell me DGM, remembering that Brown was unarmed, which US law lays out the circumstances and reasons in which the legal course of action is summary execution?
Delete10:26 he exhibited aggresive physical behaviour and commited what would be considered felony assault and felony strong arm robbery 10minutes before his encounter with a cop. It is very related.
Delete7:59am
Delete.
You are correct in NEVER trusting the police
"The MOB" as you call the people of Ferguson might not have been outraged if the cop had not gunned down a kid in the middle of the street,
DeleteWhy doesn't anyone mention that this young man had just graduated from high school and was going to college in a few weeks? Does this not fit with the "thug" image that has been created?
Anon 10:57 - And you know that the young man committed felony assault and strong armed robbery because......you were there at the scene and identified him? Or you are just psychic and recognized the shape of a kid in a tank top and shorts leaving the store while a robbery was being committed?
DeleteEven young black males are innocent until proven guilty. Every
10:57 AM, I watched the entire video from the store. He stole cigars, true. But then the store clerk attempted to keep him from leaving, physically blocking him and it looked like he put his hands on Brown FIRST. Brown reacted to the store clerk's aggression by shoving him out of the way. And how is this "aggressive physical behavior" related...in ANY way...to the shooting? The cop had NO knowledge of the stolen cigars when he told two Black kids to "get the fuck on the sidewalk". And when they didn't comply, the cop became ENRAGED and tried to physically subdue Brown while sitting in his car (according to several eyewitnesses). Since the cop knew NOTHING about the "robbery" when he told two young men to get the fuck onto the sidewalk, the shooting is NOT related to whatever took place in that store. Can you do some critical THINKING?
DeleteDGM 8:53 http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/08/ferguson-store-owner-says-he-doesnt-believe-thats-mike-brown-on-surveillance-video/
DeleteYou might have not seen me post on here as DGM, but if Gryphen checks the visitors, he will see that I am a regular visitor from Paintsville Ky. Think about this, Brown commits a strong arm robbery and 15 minutes later he is contacted by the police. The police might not know about the robbery but Brown obviously does. Do you think that might give Brown a reason to become aggressive?
DeleteAnon @12:08 You need to get a tv show since you are so clairvoyant. I'm not the one that needs to do some critical thinking.
Anon @ 12:02 Just because he had graduated from High School and was about to start trade school does not mean he couldn't be a thug. Join the real world.
12:08 it would appear you are in total void of critical thinking. Truly if you cannot understand the connection of the videotaped aggressive and criminal behavior of Michael Brown in the store, to his encounter with the police just 10 minutes later... well, you just aren't going to get it.
DeleteThere is no factual conclusion to this episode, yet. However, I question that anyone - including a police officer, would be stupid enough to think they could keep the "upper hand" or subdue anyone by reaching for them through an open vehicle window, especially anyone the size Mike Brown is said to be.
DeleteTherefore that statement causes me to negate anything that follows from those folks until there is some concrete proof of their offerings.
What kind of leverage could there be at that angle, in a seated position?
There needs to be video evidence that the police officer did something that ridiculous.
@DGM
DeleteJust because a person is wearing a police uniform doesn't mean HE isn't a thug. Bad cops are bad people wearing the uniform. But as an ex cop, from kintukky , no less, I'm betting you are a racist bastard that harassed and arrested minorities without evidence all the time. Just another white bigoted racist, and I'm betting you call yourself a christian, redneck that thinks HE and his kind are above all. amirite? I think so. Now go fuck your sister or your cousin.
Off topic, but if you look at utube, every single one of Sarah's little rants on her "paid" channel are there for free!
ReplyDeleteWhy would anyone pay for that website? I'm sure those TAPP guys regret getting involved with her. She is nuts. And writing about Nixon and WW1. But does she write about this or anything that doesn't involve bashing the President?
And, she knows nothing about history, wars, past presidents, etc. The woman is a fucking idiot!
DeleteYes I will go completely off topic, it's called earning a living. Do you have a problem with the free enterprise system and people succeeding at the American dream?
ReplyDeleteHe was another Trayvon Martin, a thug.
ReplyDeleteI feel sorry for you. It must be hard to hate most of the world just because their skin is a different color than yours. You must have a pitiful life.
DeleteAnd you are obviously another racist. When Black teens get into trouble, they're "thugs". When a white teen does something wrong, he's just "troubled", or lacking maturity. You'd fit in really well with the Ferguson PD! You should apply for a job.
DeleteI'm white and I think the cops in Ferguson are a mass bunch of racists - it's really pretty well proven already.
DeleteTheir names should be published - their records reviewed and published to the world. Don't trust them at all!
And, the guy that shot and killed the young man should be arrested, put in jail, no bail and put on trial.
You can bet that were this a reversed situation as to color - white and black - the black person would have been arrested and put in jail immediately. What a bunch of horseshit!
1:16 If it were a white person shot by the police it would not have even made national news. Sometimes you guys are so clueless it is laughable.
DeleteTrayvon Martin was not a thug, you racist, drooling, mouth-breathing piece of gutter filth.
DeleteHe was a kid walking home in a neighborhood where he had every right to be, minding his own business with his just purchased candy and iced tea, chatting with a friend on the phone, wearing clothing appropriate for the weather.
None of those activities are suspicious or thuggish.
Then he was stalked and attacked and murdered by the known thug with the violent history, George Zimmerman.
You fucking worthless waste of skin.
Trayvon was shot and killed in self defense after jumping Zimmerman and pounding his head into the sidewalk. He was not murdered. Hate to keep correcting you Nefer.
DeleteGo fuck yourselves!
DeleteSo someone here thinks that George Zimmerman is an upstanding citizen? George Zimmerman got away with murder. I f I was walking home at night from a store, and George Zimmerman followed me and confronted me, I would Fight him too. You clowns who say otherwise, try walking at night and have someone follow you and confront you.
Delete@8:57 AM He looks just like your Mother's boyfriend.
DeleteDGM just because young men join the Police Department, does not mean that they are not Thugs.
DeleteMany have been Fired for Thuggish behavior, and if you are Policeman, you know that. They commit crimes and cover their asses in their incident reports.
St. Louis City and neighboring areas is where you see "snitches get stitches" sprayed painted around. Witness statements should be considered accordingly.
ReplyDeleteI have no idea what you are trying to infer regarding how "witness statements should be considered". But the reason 40 FBI agents have been sent to go door-to-door to talk to possible witnesses should tell you something about the lack of trust of the local police.
DeleteWhen I looked at the diagram showing the bullet entries/exits, the first thing I noticed is this cop needs to spend some time at the range practicing his aim. He obviously didn't intend to keep shooting Brown's right arm if he was intent on stopping him in his tracks. One bullet hit an apartment building and the cops retrieved it. Of course, that was while the body was still lying in the street. Gotta clean up the evidence! Priorities!
DeleteHe shot him where he did in the right arm and hand because his right arm and hand were up near his head. It's a perfect circle. He just shot a little to the left of his target is all.
Deleteibwilliamsi, I agree. But cops are taught to shoot first at 'center mass', not at the head. This cop missed 'center mass' completely!
Deletehttp://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety/articles/3468112-Shooting-center-mass-Shooting-to-kill-or-to-stop/
There was a sudden crackling of the PA system and the range master began to speak.
“Two shots to the body, center mass...follow it with one to the head. The use of a firearm is deadly force, folks and your shots need to stop the threat. Remember, the ultimate responsibility for taking another human life is yours. No one else can make that decision for you. You have to be prepared both physically and mentally. To stop a deadly threat you have to know when and where to shoot. I want to see good target placement and a tight group on your chest shots. Are there any questions? OK... Is the line ready? The line is ready... on the command... draw and fire!”
"Remember, the ultimate responsibility for taking another human life is yours." Wilson made that decision before the first shot was fired. And it took him more than 6 shots to accomplish that. Six shots are accounted for. One that hit an apartment building does not seem to be accounted for. The one that was fired from inside the car...well, who knows? Because the local PD isn't sharing any information that might put their 'boy' in a bad light.
All that means is that he wasn't exactly on dead center - he veered a little to the left.
DeleteI agree with you, ibwilliamsi! He TRIED to hit dead center, but he failed. The shots SHOWED he was trying to hit on dead center. My point is that he was focused on shooting Brown DEAD...but his aim was lousy, and that makes him a lousy cop. And that's why it took SO MANY shots to kill Brown.
DeleteHe would have shot that many times in any case. They're taught to empty their gun. Like the old "Raid" commercial used to say, "Kill 'em dead". As if there were any other way to kill someone...
Delete7:56 PM That is a LIE, they are taught to fire 2 to the center mass and 1 to the head, then evaluate the situation. They are not taught to empty their weapons. You have been fantasizing about too many video games.
DeleteIt's too bad, 7:57 that you are so arrogant and ill-mannered that you can't confine your sniping to posts where it might be remotely on topic.
ReplyDeleteThe shots to the right arm and hand make a lot more sense when you put the hand next to the gunshot wounds on the head. He had his hands up and the shots all went in the one area, not up and down his body on one side.
ReplyDeleteI hope that there were enough cameras so that the ones perpetrating the violence can be caught. The police said the attacks were "planned and premeditated".
ReplyDeleteThe governor, Jay Nixon, said in a statement that he chose to activate the National Guard because of "deliberate, coordinated and intensifying violent acts."
Captain Ron Johnson of the Missouri Highway Patrol said that there were shootings, looting, vandalism and other acts of violence overnight that were "designed to damage property, hurt people and provoke a response."
A couple of nights ago people peacefully protesting said that "anarchists" in the crowd started violence. They could very well be part of it because here in Seattle, every single time there is a protest and an opportunity for violence, turning over cars, looting, breaking store windows - the Anarchists are the first ones out there. They are punks usually wearing black & kerchiefs over their faces making it harder for any recordings to identify them. They live just to do this. I'm not saying ALL the violence in Ferguson is due to Anarchists but certainly some of it could very well be.
Obviously the police & the FBI know more about the perpetrators than we do. I just hope they catch everyone of them & send them to court!
And I would not be the least bit surprised that the looting, shooting and other acts of violence were staged by outsiders .... white folk.
DeleteOr at the very least just by outsiders. You'd have to be insane to live in Ferguson AND go out looting as if you didn't know that you were taking your life into your hands.
DeleteWatch how the cops in that area are keeping the media and cameras away from their actions as much as they can.
DeleteI suspect and think they are still doing harm to any black kids they get their hands on. They have put up that black guy that is the speaker for all of them as a front....nothing more and nothing less. They are using him and still doing crap to the blacks behind the scenes. Do not trust them as far as I can throw them!
Yep all those videos showed white folk carrying out the beer, tv's and anything they could get hands on (not.) Not saying there weren't any white folk looting, but the videos show otherwise.
DeleteDMG, once again, your FOCUS is on the "folk" carrying out the "beer, tv's and anything they could get hands on." You clearly do not GET what this whole thing is about. Your 'focus' hones in on what the "Blacks" are doing wrong, and ignores what the "White cops" are doing wrong. You ASSUME the folks who are looting are the same folks who are protesting the murder of Michael Brown! Why? Just because their skin is the same color? Do YOU like being associated with Michael Dunn, Timothy McVeigh, James Holmes, Adam Lanza, etc.? Because right now, you sound like a WHITE dude who can't understand what Black people endure from white people who are in authority.
DeleteDGM
DeleteIs naive, white, and an ex cop. To him, cops are wonderful to minorities we have learned not to call them because we will be beaten or abused.
We had two wars where kids with no other employment options enlisted to kill brown people. When those wars ended these trained killers had no where else to turn for employment other than local and state police forces, where their "talents" could be utilized. Unfortunately, thanks the the militarization of state and local police, these kids think they're still fighting in a war zone. The enemy is still brown, and they know no difference and now the war zone is in our own communities. They police are increasingly turning from "peace officers" into instigators and self-appointed judge and jury. All while riding around in armored vehicles and dressed for World War 3.
ReplyDeleteSadly, you are correct. However...the cop who did the shooting in this case never served in the military. He lived in a very white town, and worked in a town that was predominantly black. The cops who have been intimidating (and WORSE) the citizens (who have been protesting peacefully) fit the description you have given.
DeleteI have a family member who is an ER doctor. He told me that cops LOVE to fight. In fact, he said, "They LIVE for it!" I think the ones who didn't serve in the military are 'wannabes'. They want to put on camouflage, wield automatic weapons, ride in fuckin' awesome MRAPS, and somehow believe they are HEROS who are serving their country...all with minimal threat to THEIR safety. They want to wear that badge, and brandish that weapon so that people will FEAR them! It's not about respect...it's about fear and intimidation. "When I say get on the fucking sidewalk, I mean for you to do it NOW!!!" And if you are not sufficiently intimidated, you WILL be shot down. "You will fucking respect whatever I say, even if I don't respect YOU!"
Anon@12:37 You have some very valid points, I retired 20 years ago. When we went to a major situation i.e. hostage situation, barricaded suspect, shooting, we usually had at most 4 or 5 guys to handle it. Our pursuits would consist of 2 cars usually. Law Enforcement has become militarized and it is causing all kinds of problems. That being said, it is still unknown for sure what led to the shooting, let the FBI figure it out. If the officer is proven to be a killer then I'm sure he will punished appropriately.
DeleteDEM, You say you are "...sure he will be punished appropriately." I agree with you that we don't KNOW what led to the shooting. But I disagree that he is destined to be punished appropriately. I think that is in DOUBT, by lots of people, including the DOJ. Are you aware of the number of police officers who have gone free after killing Black people? Did you SEE the video of the homeless, older woman in CA who was getting punched in the face by a cop, simply because she was wandering into the traffic while trying to make her way to a homeless shelter? Are you aware of the Emmit Till case?
DeleteBetween 2003 and 2009, the DOJ reported that 4,813 people died while in the process of arrest or in the custody of law enforcement. These include people who died before an officer physically placed him or her under custody or arrest. This data, known as arrest-related deaths, doesn't reveal a significant discrepancy between whites, blacks, or hispanics. It also doesn't specify how many victims were unarmed. According to the FBI, which has tracked justifiable homicides up to 2012, 410 felons died at the hands of a law enforcement officer in the line of duty.*
You seem nice, but VERY nieve regarding the history of police and their record of being able to punish "appropriately".
I went to high school in a very small town. My brother was charged with a traffic violation that was bogus. He represented himself in a court with a 6 person jury. He drew a diagram showing that what the police accused him of doing was virtually impossible. This tiny town jury, very supportive of police (in general), acquitted my brother because he demonstrated that they were lying. I have never trusted police since then. They care more about protected each other than they care about protecting "We the people".
7:57 Your post is such a lame attempt at saying, "Hey lookie over here" to deflect. That's like me going over to c4p and saying, "Hey since you're all so impassioned over Sarah lookie at Christine O'Donnel's wardrobe".
ReplyDeleteApparently you're just jealous that Gryphen's blog is so popular. Thanks for clicking and earning him more money!
7:57 AM, aren't the Tea Party patriots needing you to help pass out the next talking points right now? Better hurry! It's okay...we'll be FINE without you.
ReplyDeleteI really doubt that this is the actual cop that killed this poor kid....remember they had to search for one that had been hit in the face to justify their cover story?
ReplyDeleteThe same with the bogus video of the your man being involved in a robbery: what the videos shows is what appears to be a person of color dressed in a tank top and short leaving the store. It is hard to see the kid leaving the store because of the large man in the center of the screen.
This has little to do with killing brown people in Iraqi, but a LOT to do with gunning down black males in the street.....just like they were run away slaves. That is what this is all about isn't it? Blatant racism and southern white males extreme fear of colored men?
They had a week to punch him.
DeleteI'm a hundred percent behind what Nixon said and am SO relieved the Government is doing a separate autopsy and investigation. Dr Baden is a celebrity wannabe and very sloppy, and even HIS report jives with the eyewitness reports.
ReplyDeleteWhat I'm against NIxon on is calling for the National Guard because it feeds into the the unwritten street rules against "snitching" or helping the police find the perps.
Somewhere another set of parents, siblings, friends and family are mourning their "Mike Brown", and people know who did it and fear coming forth with the information.
I'm not condoning the looting and bad behavior, and I know not all the police are trustworthy, but we've got to work with the system we have now and work on making it better.
I'm fine with the National Guard going in and stopping the police.
DeleteI want an investigation done on the black kids they are arresting and putting in jail. I watched a situation last night on TV where police surrounded a black kid they had taken/arrested and they put him on the ground and surrounded him so that cameras couldn't see what they were doing to him. I know they did something because you could see his feet/bottom portion of his legs twitch! Then they picked him up in a group and carried him over to a truck and put him in it. The police are keeping media and cameras away from their actions and it's being done on purpose. They are a proven racist bunch there and they make me sick to my stomach!
ReplyDelete6 foot 4 inch 300 pound man bends forward and starts to approach you like a lineman on a football field.
ReplyDeleteWhen police are attacked they are trained to shoot to kill. Not wound.
I'm not taking either sides word here. Dorian Johnson is no more reliable than the police office right now. Wait for the investigation to conclude. There are outside, unbiased agencies involved.
I am normally a liberal progressive and given to giving everyone the benefit of the doubt until overwhelming proof proves otherwise. But in this one sense I am a conservative as it gets.
You don't mess with the police. If they tell you to stop, you stop. You do not run. You run, you deserve to be shot. You do not under any circumstances attack or assault an officer. You do not under any circumstances take or reach for their person or anything belonging to that officer. You do everything that officer tells you to do and you sort it out later. You shut up, call a lawyer and you can always sue their asses off later.
But you don't run and you don't attack and you don't resist.
Too many parents are teaching their children the exact opposite.
"I'm not taking sides here."
DeleteFuck off.
Let me guess, you are a white christian. Guess what, Cops aren't people to idolize, there are good cops, but there are also very bad cops. Just like you, a closet racist, and there are good people.
DeleteYou obviously haven't followed this blog for long. Gryphen is known for blogging he has done everything, seen everything. Count the number of I's in some of his blogs. He's kinda like a female version of Sarah Palin, it's always about him. It's time to take this blog off of my favorites. He's allowed this to become no better than the c4pee site. ibwilliamsi and a few others are examples of the hateful people he allows to post on here.
DeleteDGM or DUMMY GETTING MAD has a wild hair up his ass.
DeleteObviously you have never lived in a city where the Police 'ride herd' on Black Men daily. Until you wear those shoes, STFU.
DeleteSo, you're not taking sides and say wait for the investigation to conclude? Yet at the same time you foolishly assume that he charges at the officer like a linebacker on a football field. Where's your proof of that assumption?
DeleteHey Gryphen are you some kind of person who kisses the asses of dead thugs like Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown?
ReplyDelete8:03 PM Hey Troll, are you some kind of person who kisses the asses of Bigots like Todd and Sarah Palin?
DeleteFOAD, Troll.