The Pew Forum has released a doozy of a poll about religion in public life in the United States showing that white evangelical Christians possess grossly overdeveloped feelings of victimhood. Given that the voting bloc evangelicals comprise is one of the most heavily pandered to in American politics, and given the fact that evangelicals themselves are the cause of some very real discrimination, there is thus a mountainous irony at play here.
In a survey of 2,002 Americans, Pew found that 72% believe that religious influence is waning in the country, and sadly, 56% regard this as a “negative development.” A disturbing 59% of Americans say they want members of Congress to “have strong religious beliefs.” When it comes to discrimination, believe it or not, more Americans think that evangelicals are discriminated against than atheists.
So to be clear, the group that has dominated politics in this country for the last forty years, and whose favorite holiday is celebrated nationally, believes that THEY are more discriminated against than any other group in a country founded by white Christians.
I have no words.
I'm sorry, religious folk, your beliefs in a god is just not that important in the 21st century.
ReplyDeleteIt seems white evangelicals are just as uninformed about this as they are about almost everything else.
ReplyDeleteThose numbers are ALL pretty high... although relatively speaking, people think Muslims and atheists are doing okay.
ReplyDeleteThis just in! People will believe anything they're told.
ReplyDeleteFrom my point of view, this attitude is being TAUGHT by their ministers and lay persons. They have been told they are special for so long and that it is their duty to "save the world" that when they discover a.) the world doesn't give a damn about them one way or the other and b.) they CAN'T get everything they believe they deserve because it's not legal, it is only logical (at least, from THEIR point of view) to believe they are being discriminated against. Just like a spoiled child.
ReplyDeleteI take great pleasure in disenchanting them of their "special" notions by cramming FACTS down their throats. Most of them don't believe me, but that's, again, because of what they have been taught. I feel if I can wake even one of them up. I should be happy - and I am.
Absolutely right, Leland. And remember that Christianity was born of persecution, with the symbol of a crucified Jesus reminding Christians of that every day. But I'd suggest also that this persecution complex is endemic to the Republicans, which makes up, what? 99% at least of all American evangelicals.
Delete"It’s difficult to free fools from the chains they revere” Voltaire
ReplyDeleteAgain, white evangelicals, this country was not founded by Christians. Look it up.
ReplyDeleteThis is what they have been told over and over from the pulpit and from their "news" sources and these sheeple are the most likely to believe it. Hey you're poor and sick, not because of richie rich and corporations and entrenched idiologies/religions, no no no... it is because someone else did that to you and LOOK OVER THERE! SQUIRREL!
ReplyDeleteGryphen - It's been two weeks since you implied that you had the goods to take Palin down. Can you give us any update. I fear this is fizzling again.
ReplyDeletePerhaps it was a mistake to announce it in advance. Better to wait until it all came together and then publish it. This way, Gryphen, you don't have disappointed folk bugging you for the promised bombshell.
DeleteHe said no such thing, 5:36 AM.
Delete"Taking down" was your wishful thinking.
How did you both see the promised bombshells but somehow miss that Gryphen said it would not be in the next few days or "even in the next week"?
DeleteIf you have been here for any length of time, you can rest assured as soon as he is able to, Gryphen will deliver.
I like that Gryphen dots every i and crosses every t. And why do so many people say the "iceberg" never materialized?
Look at that speech of Sarah quitting. Tell me she hadn't crashed head on into whatever that iceberg is/was. Just because we don't know the details doesn't mean it didn't exist. Obviously Palin quit in a hasty, pressured mess. The iceberg cameth.
Anon. 6:17 - Your first sentence is correct but I think he wrote that two weeks ago. Most non-troll IMers appreciate the challenges Gryphen has dealing with the many layers of the topic of Sarah Palin. And the need to get it right. I think we're just antsy for the scales of justice to finally drop on her pointy little head.
Delete@6:17 - Yes, that iceberg did the job of getting her out of the political arena but hasn't stopped her from delivering her nonsensical rhetoric at every opportunity. She still has an audience who thinks she is the best hope for America; an idea which we can all agree is ridiculous. The thing is, although the iceberg destroyed her political ambitions, it hasn't put a damper on the loyal support she receives from her deluded worshipers.
DeleteWhatever and whenever Gryphen publishes, it appears that it will not be enough to bring her down and we will be stuck with hearing her vile & putrid droppings indefinitely.
Amen to that 7:07 AM. Those very worshipers have taken The Sarah Pledge, their version of The Apostles Creed.
DeleteHere is an example of just how deluded her fans are:-
Deletepalin45potus • 24 minutes ago
Read 1776ers post envisioning the wonderful day in January 2017, as President Elect Palin's limo pulls up to the White House to assume the reins of power.
What an awesome day it'll be! The lefty press will mock and deride, but what a great party it'll be. Imagine the bands that might be there. I could see Sammy Hagar there. Ted Nugent. Probably not Heart. A lot of country western.
And a whole lot of grateful Americans, along with a relieved world anxious to have real adult leadership out of Washington DC after the 8 years of seeing what happens when the marxist professors run things.
No amount of logic, critical thinking, history, research, or science can convince most religious folks of anything.
ReplyDeleteTheir perception of feeling discriminated against stems from pure entitlement, and being a dominant force in USA politics for so long. I spent a few years in that Matrix before realizing as a young man how foolish it is to live your life based on fables from the Bronze age.
Now that many more people are leaving organized religion, and rejecting ancient tomes based on mythology and legend,
the Fundies are scared of losing their influence.
I think the greatest threat we face in America is electing a fanatic like Ted Cruz to the Presidency.
Cruz is pure Christian Taliban, with just one over arching goal, and that is a theocracy based on his prejudice and biased thinking.
Kansas ‘Family Values’ Republicans Resort To Auctioning Off Sex Toys To Fill Budget Hole They Created
ReplyDeletehttp://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/09/26/kansas-family-values-republicans-resort-to-auctioning-off-sex-toys-to-fill-budget-hole-they-created/
It's the HATE conference LIVE!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/watch_live_now_anti_gay_hate_group_hosts_radial_right_wing_conservative_conference
The GOP’s Millennial problem runs deep
ReplyDeletehttp://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/09/25/the-gops-millennial-problem-runs-deep/
Is religion’s declining influence good or bad?
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/09/23/is-religions-declining-influence-good-or-bad-those-without-religious-affiliation-are-divided/
National Congregations Study finds more church acceptance of gays and lesbians
ReplyDeletehttp://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/09/25/new-study-finds-a-greater-church-acceptance-of-gays-and-lesbians-2/
I can see why they feel that way, the extreme fundamentalists, the nutbags; they are routinely laughed at, alled nutbags, are ridiculed for their strident un-Christian Christianity. Rightly so, of course, but still I get their view point. They want to be admired, revered, listened to, maybe even feared, instead are largely considered stupid, rigid, bigoted, offensive or silly, etc. Yes, they are those things and more, but they see themselves as righteous, better than others. So they feel persecuted. Tch, too bad. Delusions can be a bitch.
ReplyDeleteThey have no capacity for rational thought and their hearts are ugly. Why should anyone care what they think?
ReplyDeleteEvangelicals believe they are discriminated against because more and more people are standing up to them and demanding the separation of church and state. Tax dollars should not be used to promote a religion. Period, full stop. But the evangelicals want to shove their version of God down everyone else's throat and when we protest, they claim discrimination.
ReplyDeleteMost of the founding fathers kept their religion to themselves. And oh yeah, they made sure the separation of church and state was in the First Amendment. But these idiots don't bother to read the Constitution they claim to love anymore than they read the Bible (you know all that inconvenient stuff about helping the poor and the homeless and the hungry - to hear them tell it, Jesus wanted low taxes and the poor be damned).
So, this is really about power. They want you to believe whatever they say and don't you dare ask any questions. Because we say so is the answer to your questions. Just like Palin; if she says it is so, then it must be, right?
Yes, the foundational problem is that their 'religion' has nothing whatsoever to do with the God of the Bible, and everything to do with taking the Koch brothers, et al, economic philosophy and then DRESSING IT UP as a 'religion'. These people are puppets of mammon,and not even close to being servants of God. No one, but no one, in today's so-called 'religious arena' can out-speak or even come close to God when it comes to social justice, and yet social justice is largely, even mostly, what the entire Bible is based on. If "love your neighbor as yourself" does not require a radical sense of social justice and a complete turn-about from viewing people based on their skin color, then the phrase is stripped of all meaning. Both the Old and New Testaments are clear on this, and only the Biblically illiterate righties are in the dark. They can not see because they WILL not see; and they continue to show this by their actions. The concept of humbly serving God – who created all those people they look down on – is alien to their way of thinking.
DeleteThe Supreme Court did away with this in 1943.
ReplyDeleteShe's breaking the law.
Let's make it official, FEMA camps, anyone?
ReplyDeleteThey have been the biggest haters and racists with the likes of Sarah Palin and Ted Cruz!
ReplyDeleteYou have no words, they have no shame.
ReplyDeleteOh my Dog! Look at all those pink arms. Reminds me of noodley appendages.
ReplyDeleteTo anyone who knows evangelicals, this should not be surprising. My parents and their friends have bought into this meme for years. The persecution narrative has been overt and deeply entrenched in the evangelical belief system at least since I was a child in Colorado Springs in the 80s. This fear is a major weapon in their Republican overlords' "get out the vote" arsenal. It's why someone like Sarah Palin had such an easy job of polarizing--pastors and political leaders had been laying the groundwork for years.
ReplyDeleteEvangelicals are out of touch with the rest of the country, but the rest of the country is equally out of touch with them. I am shocked at what most people don't know about evangelicals, and that scares me because they're a powerful voting bloc that right now holds half of Congress and a majority of the Supreme Court. I think liberals and progressives need to understand what makes them tick--yes, they hate abortion and gay people, but there is a complex mesh of religion, culture, sociology, psychology, intellect, knowledge, belief, and oft-repeated mantras that motivates and informs those hatreds. Dismissing them as "the crazies who believe in a big fairy tale" is disingenuous at best and dangerous at worst.
I'm sure there are many atheists who have been deeply hurt by Christians. But I don't think being nasty (and yeah, the "big fairy tale" stuff is nasty, and it isn't justified by the admittedly valid argument that they're nastier) has any positive results. You are not going to mock Christians into becoming atheists. Making fun of an evangelical is not going to turn her into a progressive; it's just going to make her run that much faster back to her church to tell everyone to vote against the nasty progressive atheists. Evangelicalism has left many people trampled, disenfranchised, and devastated...but they're not necessarily going to leave the church unless they encounter people outside the church who are kinder, more supportive, and more compassionate. They're not going to trade a condescending, judgmental religious community for a condescending, judgmental atheist community.
When I was emerging from evangelicalism, I questioned nearly everything I had been taught. What I never questioned was my belief in some sort of supreme being. If I had encountered some of you--who insist that no thinking, compassionate person can possibly believe in God; that no Christian who actually reads the Bible can interpret it in anything but an evangelical way; that anyone who thinks that God exists is a superstitious caveperson--it would not have won me to your side. It would have just confirmed the binary thinking I was trying to escape. It would have enforced the persecution narratives I'd grown up with, the idea that "the world hates us because we're Christians." It might have driven me back into the church's arms, and in 2008 and 2012, I might have been voting for McCain and Romney rather than Obama. And yes, I'm one person with one vote, but those votes adds up. And the evangelical persecution narrative has played a major role in tallying up votes for the Republicans, so if you enforce it--and to them, being dismissive or rude or derisive about their beliefs does indeed enforce it--you're actually helping them drive people to the polls.
Excellent post 8:45. The major point, imo, is this:
Delete"They're not going to trade a condescending, judgmental religious community for a condescending, judgmental atheist community. "
I wasn't raised in a religion so I had nothing to turn my back on. I don't know how much, if any difference, this makes. I am interested in and have studied and taught the texts of various religions as important aspects of the world's cultural heritage.
I come from a country in which faith is considered a personal thing, neither to be trumpeted nor used in an attempt to establish some sort of superiority. Many people do not practice any religion and the idea that they feel "closeted" I think would be incomprehensible to most of them. In everyday life, it just isn't an issue.
Couldn't agree with you more. I am a Christian, and I find the entire political-religio power machine that they now wield to be appalling. And you are absolutely right that most secular people who dismiss them are completely unaware of the vast, extremely well-organized web of economic, political, and cultural power that they hold.
DeleteWhy do they think being placed in a strait jacket and being institutionalized in a padded cell is discrimination?
ReplyDeleteAn Alabama man offered the first non-theistic invocation at a Huntsville, Alabama city council meeting on Thursday. Contrary to conservative suspicions, no portal to Hell opened. The Rapture did not come. No one died. It was actually a rather pleasant gathering.
ReplyDeletehttp://aattp.org/alabama-city-council-meeting-opened-with-atheist-invocation-no-portal-to-hell-appeared-video/
We were ONCE a Christian nation - Catholics and Protestants - now we are a nation of multiple religions based on our population! i.e. Hindu, Muslim, etc.
ReplyDeleteThese 'white' supposed Christians better get over their fears and realize they will be the minority race in the not too distant future!!!!
Religion should have nothing to do w/our government and Christians should not 'dictate' their beliefs to society! Many folks in America do not believe in their god, or any god, and many other Americans have various religions throughout our country that are very different from theirs!
ReplyDeleteRemember, America is a free country!!! Which includes freedom to practice whatever religion, or non religion, you wish!