This reminds me of an epic debate I got into when I was in college.
My roommate was planning to enter the priesthood, and had an honest to goodness eidetic memory.
He was able to quote line from line almost every book he had ever read, which of course included the Bible.
This put me at a distinct disadvantage, until I proclaimed that since the "facts" in the Bible had never been backed up by independent sources, and many if not all of them were disputed by other sources from those time periods, that I would treat them as mythologies, much like the Greek and Roman mythology I had studied in high school.
He still did pretty good even with his primary source material removed, but ultimately it ended in a tie.
(Of course that is what I led him to believe, however there was really no doubt that I crushed him. No, really.)
In high school, I had the following "debate":
ReplyDeleteOther person: "You can't be an atheist! Haven't you read the bible?"
Me: "Yes, and that's what made me an atheist; there's just no way that hot mess was the inspired word of anyone!"
You can never win the debate when the other person's ultimate answer is "because...God."
ReplyDeleteWell, actually that means you can ALWAYS win the debate.
Agreed 5:43. Their excuse is like saying "I know I am but what are you".....dare I say delusional.
DeleteI used to get into those arguments with 'Christians', too - back in high school.
ReplyDeleteWhen I'd 'win' the debate, the 'Christian' I had been arguing with would HATE me - and so would any other 'Christian' that knew I had kicked the slats out from beneath their weak belief.
But I learned a couple of things: 'Christians' aren't really very familiar with their own Bible, and they turn to HATE very easily and quickly.
Some of those 'Christians' from high school still hate me for "making them doubt their faith".
Ironic, isn't it? (The HATE part, I mean)
Great post. I always think of something I should have said after the debate's over, but it's crystal clear to them that I'm not changing or converting or whatever term they want to use. And yes, some of my best friends are believers who are smart enough to not push the issue.
ReplyDeleteIronically, my kids have much more patience and acceptance than I did at their age.
Recycled post. You've told that story before, emphasizing your roommate's photographic memory, for some reason.. What's next, a reprise of your tall tale about an encounter with a Catholic priest that sent him on a three-day drunk?
ReplyDeletePredictable comments, too.. Commenter at 9:24 boasts that Christians don't really know the Bible, but he's the one who recently asserted confidently (and incorrectly) that the Book of Tobit was contained only in the Douay-Rheims edition of the Bible.
Then you have the one at 6:09 p.m. who just a few days ago, in a post about Pope Francis's letter to the Bishops on climate changed, suggested that Rick Santorum belonged to a "stricter" cult within the Catholic Church. Clearly this commenter is clueless about Roman Catholicism.
Be atheist as you want. Enjoy it. Let is free you, if that's what you're seeking. But do everyone a favor. Don't presume to preach to hose who have a different viewpoint from you.
Open-minded discussion and exchange of ideas would be good, but that does't take place here. Witness the small number of comments on this thread, and the conversation-killing language used by the blogger.
Hey, Jude, don't bring me down.
DeleteYou're not the arbiter of mainstream Catholicism, and you can't specify any so-called stricter cult within the church to which Sanctorum belongs. You just don't like him or his politics. Neither do I. He's a strange person--but it's him, not the church. Remember Stephen Colbert and Pope Francis are also members of the same body.
ReplyDeleteEx-communication is very rare. I think you're exaggerating.
Your hyperbole about the madness of Catholic schools is also over the top. Practicing Catholic Melinda Gates has donated $10 million to the Ursuline Academy, which she credits with instilling in her a love of science.
A student learns from any school on a level commensurate with the effort she expends. All education is essentially self-education. Teachers act as guides and mentors. Sad for you that you are bitter about your education.
One more, and last time. I don't care what you believe. I'm not "notable" by any stretch of the imagination, but a quick look at wiki shows the number of notable people excommunicated and when, and it seems that the notable folks excommunicated seem to rise. Not that it correlates in any way to the general population.
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_excommunicated_by_the_Roman_Catholic_Church
Thanks so much for the complements, Jude. I forgive you for believing I exaggerate or lie. I had a decent education, but witnessed and was on the receiving end of corporeal punishment, which promotes a WONDERFUL learning environment.(snark), And thanks for not judging me, it was very "christian" of you.
P.S,
I've commented about my experience on IM several times. Feel free to slog through the comments if you're curious.
If I had to "choose", I'd join The Novus Spiritus Church, founded by Sylvia Browne, TV Medium. It seems more inclusive and accepting,, but since I'm not, I'll stick with Atheism.
Thank you for your forgiveness, but you do sound angry. I've seen your comments before. Because of your moniker, I associate you with mostly Palin-related topics, which I prefer to scroll past.
ReplyDeleteHope this doesn't make you more angry, but corporal punishment has always been commonplace in public schools, so it's not just a Catholic problem. Even today, it's allowed in numerous states.
Catholics are supposed to evangelize, and Pope Francis, whom even atheists like you have praised, has reminded us of this.
There are many secular orders within the Roman Catholic Church. There are lay Franciscans and Carmelites, Benedictine oblates, and so on. The members feel called to the charism of a particular saint. These groups aren't cults and they don't practice a stricter form of the Catholic faith. Sanctorum's group, and even Opus Dei (which got a bad rap from Dan Brown) are in full communion with Rome. So could you be, if you ever decide to "come home."