Dale and Shannon Hickman don’t believe in doctors. Because of this religious conviction, set forth by the cult the couple belongs to, Oregon City’s Followers of Christ Church, the Hickmans let their premature infant die after being being born at home rather than seek medical help. As a result of this decision, the couple was convicted of manslaughter in 2011.
The child, named David Hickman, weighed just 3 lbs, 7 ounces at birth. His tragically short life was only 9 hours long. According to reports, the Hickmans went to Shannon’s mother for help when she began having contractions more than two months prior to her due date. The couple says they didn’t notice anything was wrong with the baby until just minutes prior to his death — a claim which an expert on this subject has called a lie. Instead of calling a hospital like most rational people, they prayed over the dying baby and “anointed” his head with oil.
Both halves of the Hickman couple will spend a minimum of 6 years and 3 months in prison for their actions, which is light, considering the fact that their child lost his life over their idiotic beliefs. The judge in the case, Robert Herndon, called one of the cult’s midwives “one of the most dangerous people in Oregon.”
Okay so here's m question.
Where is the outrage from the "pro-life" community over this?
After all this is not a fetus, this is an actual child, born into the world, and denied a life due to the superstitious beliefs and ignorance of his parents.
You would think this would anger them beyond all measure, and yet not a peep.
G: those people are't pro life they are pro birth. We all know how little regard they have for life after the birth.
ReplyDeleteHas anybody considered that the woman may not have wanted the baby in the first place? Maybe this was her way of having an abortion in an environment where she had no choice.
DeleteNope, sorry!
ReplyDeleteThe Christian Taliban, and their idiot leaders like Phyliss Schlafly and Bryan Fischer would just say that these convicted murderers are well within their rights to rely on their "faith" and trust their imaginary friend to save the baby.
And you have it wrong, that baby did *not* die, it went directly to heaven, so what's the problem? It was GOD's will, so no one should be punished /s
Sick and twisted as that logic is, you nailed it. Once the infant draws a breath, it's in God's hands. The only problem I have with their sentence is that it should also include that they be banned for life from ever receiving any sort of medical care or attention for anything. Won't/can't happen, but it'd be an important bit of justice, imho.
DeleteDragonfly & AJ, You hit the nail on the head!
DeleteThese 'Murican Taliban, all they want is a baby to pop out. As long as that happens, nothing else is needed. The child doesn't need shelter, food, medical care, clothes, or, an education...
It's a cold, cruel, and deadly world where the 'Murican Taliban run the show...
I call it abortion, after birth...
Assuming God called the baby "home," what will the baby be doing in heaven? Will there be day care there? Will the baby actually age in heaven? Eternity seems like an awfully long time just to be hanging out with God.
DeleteThe right to lifers only care about the "preborn" babies; once they are born, the rights of the parents to raise their child (or in this case, kill it) according to their beliefs supercede the child's rights. Mustn't abridge their religious freedom, dontcha know?
ReplyDeleteI'm sick and tired of this bullshit. These people would probably love to restrict access to abortion and birth control, but they let their baby die because they don't "believe in" professional medical care.
ReplyDeleteHey, dummies, I don't believe in your god, but you are supposed to. Who exactly do you think gave people the ability to learn about medicine and healing people? Yeah, the same god who presumably gave a professional the ability to create the clothes your wearing and the ring on your finger and the freaking tissue you're wiping your sorry face with.
This baby weighed about five pounds less then my (admittedly on the large size) newborns and they didn't know there was something wrong?
They should be arresting the midwife and anyone else who promotes "faith healing" for babies and children. Stupid adults can decide for themselves, but don't bring your children into your ridiculousness. We should all be glad that the courts didn't decide these so-called parents "suffered enough."
I hope for everyone's sake that these idiots don't have any more children.
*you're
DeleteI noticed in the linked article the woman is wearing glasses. I guess she decided she didn't need to pray for good eyesight; she could take advantage of medical advances. Being able to see is apparently more important to her than the life of her baby.
ReplyDeletewell it shoots their theory to hell, that if that baby was aborted at 7 months, it could have lived had it been born at 7 months.
ReplyDeleteoopsies.
Again, this is why atheists need never proselytize. One more story of religious insanity taken to a fatality, the Monica Miller hatred in the post just previous to this, the nuts earlier this week that had their church congregation help 'beat the evil' out of their teenage sons ...and a few more people to chose rationality over the god bullshit. Not enough yet, but a few.
ReplyDeleteThey re suffering enough - from stupidity and from leting their premie die.
ReplyDeleteWTF is jail gonna do but give ammo to religious extremists?
Nope, sorry. This is child medical neglect that lead to death. This is extra-extremist. We don't have to worry about offending too many people by sending these people to prison for a few years as we would if they just let the baby die out of regular rather than religious-based neglect.
DeleteThe wife says she has to go along with what her husband says. Maybe going to prison for a few years will separate her from the cult long enough to teach her to stand up for herself. Maybe the same thing will happen to the husband.
These kinds of wackos make up a tiny proportion of people in this country. The majority of people on the god squad believe in taking advantage of medicine and doctors and not just standing back and letting kids die.
DeleteSorry. I disagree. These religious fundies always get a free pass on everything by waving their religion around. Yet in some places women can be sent to jail for having a miscarriage.
DeleteThis cult "Followers of Christ Church," is way more screwed up than your average fundamentalist.
DeleteThere are 16 year olds with infections who could easily have been treated with antibiotics instead of dying from the pneumonia they eventually got.
This cult may indeed be forced birthers, but their belief in medical neglect goes beyond abortion.
I wish the articles had named the midwife.
This is why "lay" midwives should not be allowed to practice.
Hhhmmm. And Ayn Rand called the American natives savages? Yeah, right.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the baby was better off dying at birth instead of waiting to die from strep throat, tetanus, or some other illness or injury that are preventable or no longer fatal because of medical advances.
ReplyDeleteI agree.
DeleteA premie that small is going to have all sorts of medical complications. Even a full-term baby can have a hole in the heart or disconnected intestines or other internal problems.
Would that church handmaid "midwife" know about jaundice and the other things that hospitals routinely look for? Would she know if the mother was expressing enough milk?
The ignorance and heartlessness shown here... in NINE hours they couldn't see that the child was dying... are not temporary conditions. NO child should have to be born into such a "family." There are indeed worse things than death, and religious abuse is usually accompanied by other abuse.
Jail is too good for such people. Sterilization for both ought to be mandatory when parents kill their children.
Because they made a faith based decision.
ReplyDeleteAccording to them, that is called religious freeom
And a baby is dead.
DeleteI know and I don't care about them or their dead baby. That dead baby is just one less fundy freak to try to spread hate and lies to the rest of us. One less fundy is a good thing if you ask me.
DeleteRelax, Gryphen -- Sarah and Bristol will be all over this with their usual brilliant commentary.
ReplyDeleteRight?
Sterilize both of them.
ReplyDelete''This cult and their brainwashing has been responsible for 78 child deaths and 10 women, all of whom died in childbirth.'
ReplyDeleteI live in Oregon. I cheered when these people got convicted. And I am glad they are FINALLY going to prison where they belong. This "church" has had 3 or 4 kids die from medically preventable illnesses in the 10 years I've lived here. At least 3 were under the age of 5. I think one child was a bit older - but still not old enough to be making life and death medical decisions. Sometimes society has to say ENOUGH. Your 'religious freedom' doesn't give you special healing powers.
ReplyDeleteDuring the trial, prosecutors explained David was born with a bacterial infection and underdeveloped lungs and had a 99 per cent chance of survival with medical care.
ReplyDeleteMr Hickman said he didn't call 911 because he was praying. The couple never considered taking the baby to the hospital, prosecutors said.
Shannon Hickman said that she must defer to her husband because of church rules. ‘I think it's God's will whatever happens,’ she testified.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2055855/Faith-healing-couple-Dale-Shannon-Hickman-sentenced-6-years-jail.html
My response to why pro life people are not outraged was that they chose to believe it was God's will. That is what the mother stated also. That does not apply to all pro life people but religious extremists would not criticize other extremists.
DeleteI support abortion based on the premise that the unborn fetus does not belong to society, and its future is in the hands of the mother. If the anti-abortion people believe it is God's will for a baby to be born and humans should not intervene, they should also feel the same about letting natural death take its course without human intervention. This baby was born very prematurely and to keep it alive would have been very risky and costly. And if there is no medical insurance who will pay?
ReplyDeleteI just ousted on this. My daughter weighed less than this child at birth and is doing amazing. It is not risky when given the appropriate medical care. Does not matter the cost, once born the child should be given a fighting chance regardless of insurance or not.
DeleteMy daughter was born 6 weeks ago at 33 weeks weighing 2pounds 15 ounces, and stayed in NICU for 19 days. She is now home and thriving. There is no reason this child had to die.
ReplyDeleteYou won’t believe what happened when doctors put this dead woman’s baby on her chest
ReplyDeletehttp://deveev.com/omg/you-wont-believe-what-happened-when-doctors-put-this-dead-womans-baby-on-her-chest/
You won’t believe what happened …
DeleteCorrect. I don't. Once you get past the article title, it becomes clear the that the mother was in fact alive, albeit in a coma.
If you're considering following the link to the article, be aware that the text is spread over five web pages, so you get five sets of advertisements in your face.
It is a wonderful thing that the mother survived but stop making up stuff. As Ted Powell7:55 AM noted, the mother was alive not dead. The human brain is a wonderful thing and there is lots we don't know about how it works. I wish people would stop calling everything a miracle.
DeleteThis should be fodder for Cara Sneed (now known as Carly Fiorina) in the next debate. But no, it won't be.
ReplyDeleteYou forget that (R) anti-choice people are only interested in "life" from conception until birth. After that you're FUCKED
ReplyDeleteLet's get one thing straight. These right-to-life'rs don't care about life - not even of the unborn. They care about control - control of the flock, control of women and control of children. They don't want any influence from anything that requires thought or science. That would giving up some control.
ReplyDeleteThe anti-choicers don't care what happens after birth as long as a woman pushes out the baby. Once the cord is cut that's it.
ReplyDeleteThey don't really care what happens before birth either, as long as they control what the woman does.
DeleteThis is a sad story. What kind of parent would not rush their baby to the hospital? A preemie needs to be cared for in hospital. The whole idea is ridiculous. These parents are ridiculous. Instead of a sentence of prison, I think they should be forced to go to hospitals every week for a year and watch the preemies being cared for. They are so stupid. Even the dumb Duggars go to the hospital and they have NO insurance so they shaft the hospitals time and again because I read that Jim Bob Doofus does not believe in insurance!!!! I had bills I could not pay in the past because I was not allowed insurance until President Obama fixed that and I am so grateful that insurance companies cannot deny coverage anymore. With parents such as this, the poor child probably would have died early because they would not have ever sought medical care for him if he needed it. I had a Christian Scientist cousin who refused help until she became unconscious and was rushed to the hospital. Her refusal of care for years shortened her life. I knew another CS who was allowed to adopt a child from another country and the child died from lack of medical care, then the woman died later of the same thing. So easily fixed, but denied due to unreasonable beliefs.
ReplyDeleteIs this an old story? It mentions being convicted in '11? Or did it take this long to come up?
ReplyDeleteI *think* they were convicted and allowed to remain out on bail until the appeals were through.
DeleteName of this cult: Followers of Christ Church.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.katu.com/news/investigators/Fallen-followers-Investigation-finds-10-more-dead-children-of-faith-healers-231050911.html
http://www.katu.com/news/investigators/Faces-of-the-fallen-231052421.html
I have a serious problem with these people going to prison. I went into premature labor at 25 weeks and spent a night in the labor and delivery room. My contractions were five minutes apart, but somehow they were able to stop them and I went on to give birth to a healthy baby girl at 38 weeks. But during the time that her premature birth seemed imminent, nobody ever asked me if I wanted the hospital to go to extreme measures to save my baby, who if born at 25 weeks had a very high chance of having all kinds of physical disabilities, if she had actually survived. When I asked, I found out that since the pregnancy was past 22 weeks, the hospital automatically would have gone to heroic measures to save her, that I would have had no say in the matter. That if you give birth to a 22 week or more fetus, that you can be forced to spend millions of dollars to bring a child into the world who suffers from deafness, blindness, cerebral palsy, brain damage, and psychological problems, to name a few. For my next pregnancy, I started having contractions at 18 weeks, and I did everything that I could to remain pregnant, even having surgery and spending six months on complete bedrest. But if I had gone into full on labor before 28 weeks, I wonder if I would have even gone to the hospital to have the baby, knowing that it may have been dooming him to a life of disability?
ReplyDeleteDo I agree with what these people did? No, because a fetus born at 30-32 weeks has a pretty good chance at living a normal life, with the correct medical interventions. And I'm an atheist, so I think that their reasoning is way off. But if these people can be put in prison because they made the choice not to save a 30 or 32 week fetus, then that opens us all up, especially women, to being charged with murder every time we have a miscarriage, or make the decision that a premature infant would be better off peacefully passing away than putting them and their caregivers through a lifetime of misery. And Gryphen, I disagree with you when you say that this was a child, not a fetus. Does that mean that you would not support a woman's right to abort a 30 week fetus if she found out that it had a severe birth defect, that you would ban "late term abortions" because it's a "child"? And are we all now forced to give birth in hospitals because if a home birth results in the death of a woman or child, that someone will be charged with manslaughter or murder? Humans gave birth for 100,000 years without doctors, and it's always been a risky business. Now that we have invented doctors and hospitals, we are no longer allowed to give birth on our own? I just can't agree with you on this one.
But you did the right thing, all the right things. They did nothing but pray.
DeleteYou've written an excellent thoughtful post, and I agree with you, the hospital policy should not allow heroic measures without your consent for all the reasons you cite.
DeleteBut I need to argue one point. This woman didn't give birth on her own. Not only did she belong to a religious cult, she had an incompetent midwife. I wish the news had elaborated more on the midwive's role.
The perinatal death rate among lay midwives is double that of advanced practice nurse-midwives. There are birthing choices available, outside of hospitals, that do not constitute medical neglect.
Its important to keep in mind that hospital births became the norm in the fifties because of the lives saved.
I can't abide this level of stupidity, That fetus at least had half a chance in a hospital setting, and even if it didn't, what good did praying do any of them? I may come across as a heartless bitch, but no less than those blockading and holding pro life signs at clinics. It's a two way street, put the murderers behind bars and throw away the key, but by all means forgive them first or they'll claim religious persecution.
ReplyDelete