Tuesday, May 10, 2016

New study by nonpartisan group finds that Bernie Sanders' economic plan would double the national debt, increase federal spending by 33 trillion dollars in 10 years.

Courtesy of the AP:

Sen. Bernie Sanders' tax and spending proposals would provide new levels of health and education benefits for American families, but they'd also blow an $18-trillion hole in federal deficits, piling on so much debt they would damage the economy. 

That sobering assessment comes from a joint analysis released Monday by the nonpartisan Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center and the Urban Institute Health Policy Center, well-known Washington think tanks. 

Democratic presidential candidate Sanders would raise taxes by more than $15 trillion over 10 years, with most of that paid by upper-income earners. 

But that wouldn't be enough to cover the cost of his proposed government-run health care system, along with free undergraduate college, enhanced Social Security, family and medical leave, among other new programs. The cost of the health care plan alone is more than $30 trillion, according to the study. 

The bottom line: Sanders would add $18 trillion to federal debt over a decade. That's about double the current total government debt of $19 trillion.

Other news agencies have reported on the study as well.

Courtesy of Politico: 

Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders has proposed a whopping $33 trillion federal spending increase over 10 years, according to a new report likely to fuel complaints his campaign promises are unrealistic. 

His proposed tax increases would not come anywhere close to covering those costs, the centrist Tax Policy Center said Monday, and his plan would drive federal debt to “unprecedented” levels. 

Courtesy of the Washington Post: 

The studies, published jointly by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center and the Urban Institute in Washington, concludes that Sanders's plans are short a total of more than $18 trillion over a decade. His programs would cost the federal government about $33 trillion over that period, almost all of which would go toward Sanders's proposed system of national health insurance. Yet the Democratic presidential candidate has put forward just $15 trillion in new taxes, the authors concluded. 

In principle, national health insurance could make many families better off overall, without imposing unsustainable burdens on the federal budget. For the system to work in terms of dollars and cents, though, the benefits would have to be less generous than they are in the system Sanders has proposed, or the taxes would have to be more onerous for the middle class, as they are in many European countries.

And the Chicago Tribune simply accuses Sanders of selling a "fantasy agenda."

This is certainly not the first report we have seen that Sanders' plans are simply not workable, but it seems to be the most comprehensive.

Of course ultimately it really doesn't matter what the cost might be because even IF Sanders was to win the nomination, and then the general election, there is absolutely no way any of this would ever make it past Congress.

And in fact it would be this very move towards a more socialist system that would help Republicans hold onto power and most likely increase their hold over the House and the Senate.


  1. Anonymous11:37 AM

    O/T (or is it?) - VP Biden "feels confident" Hillary will be the nominee and next President, as he tell ABC News today. https://twitter.com/jeneps/status/730110919569776640

    1. Anonymous1:00 PM

      This is just the beginning. Soon Sen. Warren will be this direct. Then PBO, then the First Lady, etc. Can't wait!

  2. If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
    If turnips were watches, I'd wear one by my side.
    if "if's" and "and's" were pots and pans,
    There'd be no work for tinkers' hands.

  3. Anonymous11:59 AM

    Bernie has never yet made the case in detail as to how he can provide free everything.

    He was on with Bill Maher recently, and Bill asked him how he was going to pay for free college, health care, child care, etc.

    Did not give a credible answer.

    I like Bernie, and I think he's got integrity, but I don't think he's the right personality to be President, and he's too old for the job.

    It takes a terrible toll on a person, and Bernie is no spring chicken.

    1. Anonymous3:03 PM

      People with integrity aren't deadbeat parents.

    2. Anonymous7:25 PM

      This deadbeat dad trope is complete bullshit.

  4. Anonymous12:00 PM



  5. Anonymous12:05 PM

    This was my first thought - isn't this "new study" like the ones John Oliver was talking about in the video you posted earlier. I don't know who I am voting for but just to be fair, there are people who are supporting Bernie over Hilary who know about these things. Robert Reich worked for Carter on the FTC and Clinton as the Sec or Labor. He now teaches these subjects and you would think that he wouldn't want his reputation attached to a policy designed to fail and he seems to think it is the direction we need to go. I don't know why he is not supporting HC but at any cost you would think he would protect his own reputation.

    1. Anonymous12:32 PM

      I'd like to see Reich's point-by-point take on Sanders' plan. Do you have a link to his analysis. The statements I've seen from him are a little more abstract.

    2. Anonymous12:36 PM

      He has said he will be supporting her in the general.

    3. Anonymous12:52 PM

      He is not "Bernie or bust." "Hillary Clinton is the best candidate for the system we have" - Robert Reich http://www.vox.com/2016/5/5/11581940/robert-reich-ezra-klein

    4. Anonymous3:04 PM

      Bernie "didn't know these things" himself when he was on Maher. If Bernie can't articulate how it can be done how is he going to do it?

  6. Anonymous12:12 PM

    I didn't go read the complete articles that are linked.

    What will the total federal debt be after ten years if spending each year stays the same as it is now or increases because republicans want a stronger military?

    Do these "think tanks" figure that people will be paying into Bernie's proposed government-run health care system the same amount they currently pay insurance companies currently or do they assume nobody will pay anything except through increased taxes?

    Are higher income taxpayers going to shoulder any of the burden for this health care system or will they get tax cuts because they're already so desperately overtaxed?

    Will there be any new income into the treasury from a proposed transaction tax on Wall Street automated speculative trading, oh, say one percent on each transaction?

    I have plenty more questions but I'm thinking none of them are answered in any of those articles.

    P.S. Debbie Wasserman Schultz better get busy trying to elect more democrats into an already gerry-mandered House of Representatives because it's almost certain that this election will be thrown into the House where the outcome will be decided.

    See you next year at the inauguration!

    1. Anonymous12:40 PM

      Right wingers are too nervous and scared about the election to read WaPo and Politico, huh, 12:12? LOL

    2. Anonymous1:26 PM

      Yes, you have plenty of questions, but you'll be damned if you'll get off your bone-lazy ass and actually read the articles you're questioning. Congratulations on being the most inadvertently hilarious commenter here today.

    3. Anonymous1:55 PM

      Right wingers are too nervous and scared...

      I've voted Democratic in every election every two years for the last twenty-five years. I've never voted Republican or third party ever. Nice try though.

      Yes, you have plenty of questions,...

      Lots and lots of questions. I read IM so I don't have to read the original articles. If that makes me bone-lazy it's good to know I'm in good company. I thought it just possible Jesse might know the answers since I'm sure he read every word of the linked articles and white papers before he posted his own entry.

    4. 12:402:18 PM

      12:12/1:55 - my apologies. Your disinterest in the primary sources and your 3rd party mention made me think you were not a Democrat. My error.

    5. Anonymous2:59 PM

      Now we know he's just a shiftless, low-info Democrat. That is some pathological laziness there.

  7. Anonymous12:17 PM

    Yes, the TPC came out with an initial study back in March that did not take into account many of Sanders policy points so they went back and re-formulated their study two months later.

    And as I recall, the Director of the TPC (Len Burman) worked in the Clinton Administration back in the 90's.

    Two sides to that coin.

    1. Anonymous12:28 PM

      So, you are accusing Len Burman of severe bias and of lying on this report. I hope you have your own detailed analysis of Sanders' plan and critique of the specific points of the TPC's report to back that up.

      Otherwise, it's just more innuendo with nothing to back it up.

    2. I think I'll go back and watch John Oliver's exposé on science and studies.

      Yeah, there's non-partisan and there's non-partisan.

      I just saw on TV today the polls about Hillary and Bernie's chances of beating Trump. Bernie looks like more of a sure thing with less baggage.

      But that's okay. Just attack me personally for being some sort of Bro and tell me to sit down and shut up or I'm a fucking child.

    3. Anonymous12:42 PM

      What are the 2 sides? Please elaborate, preferably with math. Thanks, @12:17.

    4. Anonymous12:56 PM

      Mlaiuppa - no attack needed. Bernie has lost. All those fantasy match-ups about St. Bernie (who has had no MSM vetting and who will not even release his full taxes) vs. Trump are, therefore, meaningless.

    5. mlaiuppa, I will not attack you, I will not tell you to sit down and shut up.

      But I will ask you and I hope you will answer - what TV program was it that gave you the stats you quote? What were the actual statistics? And when did you see it? What poll or polls were they quoting?

      Because, the polls can be off, we all know that. Or they can be pretty accurate. Depends on the poll, the sample size, and how (and when!) the questions are asked.

    6. Anonymous1:45 PM

      I won't attack you. I will ask whether you're a brand-new voter who's never been politically aware enough to understand a) that national polls are meaningless at this point in the election cycle, b) that we elect presidents via the electoral college, not by a national popular vote, so that the only thing that matters is how candidates fare VS. THE GENERAL ELECTION OPPONENT (not each other) in all of the states, and c) that a candidate with 25 years in the spotlight and 100% name recognition has been vetted much more thoroughly than a low-profile senator who's only now popping into the national view.

      What C means is that the GOP hasn't yet laid a glove on Sanders. If he were to be the nominee, everything from his bad math to his honeymoon venue to his early self-identification as a "Trotskyist" to his writings on women's "secret desire to be raped" will be the basis of GOP attacks. If you think his favorability can sustain what Republicans are going to throw at him, you understand neither the campaign process nor the mindset of the general electorate.

    7. Anonymous2:09 PM

      Here's a poll for ya...

    8. Anonymous2:16 PM

      Please at least acknowledge that sanders hasn't been better on a national level. Any polls should be viewed with that in mind.

    9. Anonymous3:47 PM

      @2:16 PM
      "Please at least acknowledge that sanders hasn't been better on a national level. Any polls should be viewed with that in mind."
      Yada yada...
      Any poll can be looked at on any given day to fit any narrative.
      To wit:

    10. I'm 61 years old and have voted in EVERY election, and I mean every one, since I was 18. That includes primaries, state and even local whether anyone is running or not.

      Go check out RealClearPolitics. Don't look at whether Bernie is likely to win the nomination as we all know it's been stacked against him from before he announced. Look at the general polling when Hillary is matched against Trump and Bernie is matched against Trump. These include the Independent and undeclared voters that were denied a chance to vote in the primaries without changing their registration to Democrat. These disenfranchised voters have been ignored but they'll get to vote in November for anyone they want.

      Both Clinton and Sanders win against Trump but in most polls Sanders wins by wider margins than Clinton. In the general Clinton is +6 but Sanders is +11. Is +6 enough when you add Diebold, purged voter lists, closed and moved polling stations and all of the other fraud crap the Republicans pull?

      There are plenty of promises made during elections that never come to pass. And we all know that a president doesn't have the authority to do what many of them promise. Who is more likely to be able to work with congress and get something done?

      I'll be casting my vote for Bernie when my primary FINALLY comes around almost dead last, and I'll hold my nose for Hillary in November. I just don't want to be in a position to scream TOLD YOU SO on this blog if Trump is sworn in in January.

      I think another thing people should consider is what happens after January if it's Hillary. Will she have four or eight years of obstruction and legal fights? Would Bernie be fought against to the extent Hillary will? Who is likely to get more done? And who will work harder for the American PEOPLE. The real ones, not the faux corporation "people".

      Here's two more for you:



    11. Anonymous5:07 PM

      I wrote "better" at 2:16. It should have been "vetted."

      Bernie Sanders hasn't been "vetted" on the national level.

    12. Anonymous6:17 PM

      61? Lordy. You have no excuse for being so poorly informed about campaigns and elections, then.

      You had the problems with national polling and Bernie's lack of vetting gently explained to you, and you still keep plodding hamhandedly through your discredited talking points. No fool like an old fool, as they say.

      Part of me wishes Bernard would win so I can watch you guys gawp helplessly as the GOP takes him down like a sack of cement on all the vulnerabilities Clinton has left alone. But I care about the future of this country, so I'm relieved you won't get a chance to find out just how much you don't know.

    13. Anonymous6:37 PM

      Why would anyone put their faith in someone who couldn't be bothered to support their own child? Sorry, Bernie has proven he has no integrity.

    14. Anonymous7:09 PM

      If by some chance Hillary is elected our Congress will immediately begin to play the impeachment game like they did with Obama. It will dominate the press and allow little work to be done.

    15. Anonymous7:30 PM

      Enough with the "deadbeat" father bullshit.

    16. Anonymous7:47 PM

      How may times do things have to be explained to you before you stop posting the same polling rationale for nominating Sanders?

    17. Anonymous8:39 PM

      7:30 - "Bernie sanders has a secret" http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/bernie-sanders-vermont-119927

    18. Well, I guess this fucking child will just go sit down and shut the fuck up.

      And here I thought the Constitution guaranteed my right to free speech and to vote for whoever I want.

      I guess I was wrong.

      I have a right to vote for whoever the Democratic leadership decides I should vote for.

      I must goose step to the DNCs chosen one, no matter what. How dare I bring up any concerns like her campaign manager is an ex-VP for Monsanto or she's attended services and retreats with The Family.

      Yeah, no problem. I've certainly been put in my place by my betters who know what is good for me.

      Now, where did I put that burka?

    19. You know. I think I've just about had it with the Hitlery supporters who are barely more civil than the Trumpeters.

      This "stupid uneducated millennial" who is now an "old fool" would rather stay home than be forced to participate in a process that has become so morally corrupt that it no longer serves the needs of the actual people of this nation let alone reflects the values and intentions of the authors of our founding governmental documents.

      I don't need my decisions made for me by elites of any party. I don't need them deciding which nominee I must vote for. And that is exactly what has been made clear in this primary.

      As far as I'm concerned Trump and Clinton represent two sides of the same coin. It doesn't matter which one is elected. Both parties are so corrupt that voting has become a futile and disappointing process that in the end signifies nothing. The media will control the spin, the dogs and ponies will dance the the outcome will be what has been manipulated before the first vote was cast.

      I'm tired of swallowing my bile and voting for the least worst candidate. Obama was a fluke.

      It's not like my vote counts for anything way. It will make no difference to the outcome whether I vote or not.

      Even Gryphen's blog, which I have participated in for 8 years since that "who the hell is that?" Sarah Palin was announced as VP, has spiraled into a sewer of bias and personal attacks.

      I have had enough. I'm sure I'll be much happier not bothering to come here and try to participate in civil debate and exchanges of ideas.

      When I see Secret Life of Pets and watch the circle of dogs all sniffing each other's butts, I'll laugh and think of all of you.

      Now that you've got another notch in your belt, see how many more you can alienate before November.

    20. Anonymous5:24 AM

      Do what you need to do, old thang. Believe it or not, the world doesn't revolve around you and your precious fee-fees. Sit it out, throw a fit, wail about your victimization...just keep it down so the people who are actually bothering to read and inform ourselves can talk.

  8. How much was Obamacare supposed to cost us again?

    1. Anonymous2:20 PM

      Do you know the answer to that question?

    2. Anonymous3:06 PM

      It's not costing anything, in fact, it is saving the federal government money and saving lives.

    3. I know it's costing a lot less than was predicted.

      $139 billion less over the next five years than it was supposed to back in 2010.

      And it wasn't the job-killer it was predicted to be either.


  9. Anonymous12:42 PM

    This is probably why Bernie Sanders has never achieved a damned thing in his decades in congress.

    1. Anonymous1:27 PM

      I don't think he ever intended to accomplish anything. His brand is outsider gadfly and all his actions are designed to protect that status at the expense of getting anything done.

    2. You are ill informed and have made a very false statement.

    3. Anonymous4:38 PM

      Yes, he named two post offices. That has been his Yuuuuuuuge legacy.

    4. Anonymous6:21 PM

      Whew! If I weren't so busy, I could set aside an hour or two to read the giant list of Bernie's congressional achievements provided by Celia.

  10. Anonymous12:54 PM

    Both Democratic candidates will be hog-tied by Congress if elected. The Republican majority of both houses won't work with either Hillary or Bernie, and that being said, Donald is going to have tough go of it with our current Congress as well, but he'll bring some sweet money to the table with a slew of lobbyists to change their greedy minds.

    He probably still won't get his wall though, I don't think that will be a reality.

  11. Anonymous1:04 PM

    Speaking of Bernie and $: Bernie is running out of money-- may not be able to afford CA media ad buys. http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-sanders-fundraising-california-20160505-story.html

  12. Anonymous1:23 PM

    "more socialist system"
    Snort. 30 years ago, states picked up 90% of the tuition cost at community colleges, state colleges and universities. The highest cost of going to a public institution was the cost of dorm and meals or living near campus. Tuition was almost nothing. We did it for a century. Then the Republicans wanted tax cuts and great programs were dumped.

    On "socializing" health care. Single Payer is not socialized medicine. Remember your social studies? Socialism: the people own the means of production. In socialized medicine the people through the government own the hospitals and clinics and employ the doctors, nurses, medical staff. It's quite a show of ignorance to suggest Single Payer, Medicare for all is "moving to a more socialist system". It's also funny to see so many people who claim to be liberals pee their pants in fear when someone says Socialism. It demonstrates that Clinton and her supporters are far more conservative than they admit.

    1. Anonymous1:46 PM

      At this point, it's a reality versus fantasy test. Bernie has lost, so post-primary purity tests are for those who care more for their own egos than the good of the country? Hmmm.

    2. Anonymous2:19 PM

      It's not liberals you have to worry about. When most of us bring it up, it's to say that it will be used against him by the republicans, not that we necessarily have a problem with it.

    3. Anonymous2:35 PM

      I'm not sure how liberal Sanders voters really are. They just reported in WV that 40% of Sanders voters would vote for Trump in the General. Many WV Dems were AGAINST the policies of Pres. Obama as too liberal.

      Perhaps WV results are a yellow-dog, Joe Manchin-esque anomaly, though. Let's hope so!

    4. Yellow Dog3:01 PM

      Oops, I meant Manchin is a blue dog! -^^@2:35

    5. Anonymous3:01 PM

      WV voters are rather special. They rejected the black man for the white woman. They'll reject the white woman for the white man every time.

    6. Anonymous5:03 PM

      How liberal can someone be if they threaten to vote for Trump instead of Clinton out of spite?

  13. Anonymous1:38 PM

    Personally I'd love to see universal health care, "free" education and all the rest but I'm realistic enough to know that the American public is not will to foot the bill and that the GOP would never let any of it happen.

    I am constantly amazed that Bernie Sanders, whose been in Congress for many years now, does not understand how obstructive the GOP has been and will continue to be. The GOP does not like losing the White House and punishes the country whenever a Democrat is elected. Has Sanders been asleep since January 21, 2009? I think it's unfair to tell people that they can have pie and the sky as well without telling them that it's an impossible dream until 1) the GOP has no control in Congress or in state legislatures and 2) until all Americans understand the whopping cost of these dreams.

    1. Anonymous2:14 PM


    2. Anonymous3:07 PM

      I want the Democratic ticket to be

    3. Anonymous3:38 PM

      Me too, 3:07. Go Beaglemom!

    4. Anonymous5:08 PM

      But but but.... what about the revolution? Who pays for the revolution?/S

  14. Anonymous1:59 PM

    But, if we don't spend that money, our infrastructure crumbles, we don't get universal healthcare, college costs are unreachable for many, jobs continue to go overseas, the rich continue to hide their money offshore, and our economy remains stagnant. Once we accept that the federal government is a huge part of our economy, and always has been, then we can solve our economic problems. Austerity and staying the present course will not work.

    1. Anonymous2:37 PM

      Austerity is a global financial disaster.

    2. Anonymous2:43 PM

      Dana Houle argues for Bernie to concede as soon as possible. By hanging around, Sanders may be hurting Democrats' chance of re-taking the House - https://newrepublic.com/article/133397/sooner-bernie-sanders-ends-campaign-better

  15. Anonymous2:39 PM

    Those 2 think tank operations are republican oriented I believe. You still blindly support the Wall Street Democrat. I think the Senator has been in the legislative branch a long time compared to his competitor. I think he has a good grasp of the situation. You may not.

    1. Anonymous3:15 PM

      Bernie is math-challenged.

    2. Anonymous3:45 PM

      You believe? What is that based on?

    3. Anonymous3:45 PM

      Based on his DM article, sanders does not have a good grasp on the situation.

  16. As expected Sanders has won West Virginia.

    By the way 40% of Sanders supporters polled in WV said that they would vote for Donald Trump in the general.

    Let us assume these are not real Democrats.

    1. Anonymous3:44 PM

      How many democrats are in WV?

    2. Anonymous4:06 PM

      577,977 (D) registered.

      And the first three letters in "assume" are "ass"...

    3. Anonymous4:07 PM

      How many delegates did he win?

    4. Anonymous4:36 PM

      @ anon 4:07 pm
      1 delegate after hugging big dirty coal for 2 weeks.

  17. Of course the spending will be increased, but we are going to Berni-fy the congress and begin to tax the wealthy you know like in the 50s when any man who wanted a good job could get one, could buy a home and a car. This time women will be included. We have plenty financial resources in this country they are just concentrated in the wrong place. "Median income would soar by more than $22,000. Nearly 26 million jobs would be created. The unemployment rate would fall to 3.8%." http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/08/news/economy/sanders-income-jobs/
    Then with the increased income people will be in the workforce paying taxes. Then without a hawk in the White House the biggest driver of the deficit, the DOD will be toned down. No more wars unless we are actually threatened.

    1. Anonymous4:35 PM

      Bernie's tax plan hits everyone, including those at the poverty line and below.
      But Bernie is not going to be elected so no one will have to worry about it.

    2. Anonymous4:45 PM

      How is congress going to be "Berni-fied?"

      That's the silliest thing I've every heard.

    3. Anonymous4:49 PM

      Will this happen the first day Sanders in office or the second?

      We'll definitely be able to elect a slew of progressives to both houses of Congress in November, no problem! I'll be we have majorities in both houses!! And every governor will be more than willing to chip in for free education, because they're all progressives too!!!

      All we have to do is click our heels together and say, "There's no place like Bern's. There's no place like Bern's."

    4. Anonymous6:24 PM

      Celia = underpants gnomes

  18. Anonymous3:58 PM

    The racial makeup of primary voters was 90 percent white, something that isn't a major indicator of anything considering the state is made up of nearly 94 percent of white people. One-third of the voters identified themselves as independents, something Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders calls himself despite running for the Democratic nomination.

  19. Anonymous4:02 PM


    So what if I make promises I can't keep, the bottom line is I'm president and will be dead in a few years anyway and won't be alive to see the damages I caused

  20. Anonymous4:06 PM

    Bernie Sanders knows he won't win the presidency

    So why not go out there and promise everybody everything and worry about paying for it later.


  21. Anonymous4:10 PM

    What Sanders is doing by going around with his rallies to a losing campaign is just getting attention before he dies in a few years

    1. Anonymous6:58 PM

      You Hillary supporters are some of the most mean and crass people I've ever encountered! My family of Trump supporters can't even begin to compete with your nastiness.

    2. Anonymous8:01 PM

      6:58 - you must be trolling then.

  22. Anonymous5:02 PM

    He's going on infomercial logic, 33 trillion over ten years, plus or minus a few bucks here, a few bucks here and there is no big deal when you think of all the good stuff socialist democracy brings.
    I tried 'the Bern" and he just comes across as insincere. I'd have had more respect for him if he ran as an "Independent"

  23. Anonymous5:59 PM

    We have K thru 12 schools that are closing because of lack of funds.

    After school programs canceled

    Quality teachers leaving schools for higher paying jobs

    Schools using old text books, schools falling apart, no exposure to computers

    But what does that have to do with Socialist Bernie Sanders?

    I will tell you.

    K thru 12 can't vote so why campaign that you will fix their problems?

    College kids can vote so why not wave a carrot in their faces


    1. Anonymous6:20 PM

      Not going to cost me anything?
      Sign me up.

    2. Anonymous7:14 PM

      I haven't heard Bernie talk much about children.

  24. Anonymous6:27 PM

    Bernie Sanders beats Hillary Clinton and celebrates his win by taking his wife, children and grandchildren on a vacation on Air Force One to Russia

  25. Anonymous6:45 PM

    Hillary beats Trump only if she picks Bernie Sanders as her vice-president

    Fuck Bernie Sanders. Hillary take your chances without him

    If Hillary picks Bernie as her vp then Hillary Clinton may be the POTUS but it will be Bernie Sanders who will try to be the face and voice of our country and he will push his agenda.

    Hillary take your chances and if you lose it will be Bernie Sanders fault the Democrat Party lost because of the hatred he is bringing onto you by continuing his losing campaign.

    1. Anonymous7:13 PM

      Hillary won't be picking Sanders and she won't be losing to Trump.


Don't feed the trolls!
It just goes directly to their thighs.