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If you say anything negative about Bernie Sanders on the internet, it won't be long until you're labeled a shill for Hillary Clinton.
On Thursday, The Daily Show took on this trend. When host Trevor Noah tried to raise some questions about Sanders's policies and chances in the Democratic primaries, he hit some roadblocks.
As Noah started, correspondent Desi Lydic appeared on the scene, crashing a pair of cymbals to create a distraction. "I think we all know you meant that there's nothing wrong with Bernie Sanders. We love him and all of his policies," she said. "Trevor, have you ever pissed off Bernie Sanders supporters? It's like poking a hornet's nest — a hornet's nest with student debt. Can't you just do something less controversial — like, I don't know, draw a picture of Mohammed on a pig?"
I have admitted recently that I am not exactly warming to Noah, but this segment really knocked it out of the park.
And part of what made it so good was that it's so true.
We see it here on IM almost every single day.
In fact I have been steadily losing visitors since I started to point out that Sanders' campaign is effectively over. And I'm not talking a hundred or so, I'm talking over a thousand.
Bernie Sanders supporters just don't want to hear it.
Even my own daughter and I can't talk about it yet, because she is still deeply in denial.
But here's the thing that really concerns me.
I'm sure you remember how I gleefully predicted that if Cruz and Kasich stayed in the race until the convention that it would give Democrats the opportunity to demonstrate just who are the grownups in this race by having their act together while the GOP was dealing with an entrenched civil war.
Well now that shoe is on the other foot, since Trump is essentially the nominee and the GOP is already showing signs of unifying behind him, so that high ground will now go to the Republicans if the Democrats do not resolve their internal strife and come together before July when OUR convention is scheduled to be held.
I know right now that the polls show the Democrats in the lead for the general, but if Hillary continues getting hit by both Sanders and Trump for the next two months that lead may get whittled down quite a few percentage points.
The voters want a strong leader and a party that seems like it can work together to get things done, right now that does not seem to me an image that the Democratic party is projecting.
CorrectTheRecord!
ReplyDeleteI guess you lost 1,000 readers to Bernie's World on Reddit? Sorry to hear that. But they'll be back by the fall if they care about our country. There is a grieving period for many now.
ReplyDeleteI suspect you're losing visitors because 1) people are tired of Sarah Palin, remember the " Clinton fatigue" of the 90s? 2)Now that Bristol has had the baby, there's no hot Palin gossip that would draw the usual Palin bashers here.
ReplyDeleteI think the hard core Bernie Bros just take this blog for entertainment and that's pretty much it. And that's all it is, infotainment. Nothing more, nothing less.
You hit the nail on the head. I would also throw in the fact that Gryphen's posts have become increasingly narcissistic. He rivals Palin in the I and me comments.
DeleteYet, as usual, you are here with your juvenile bullshit. You can't stay away can you, troll?
DeleteBlow it ouchyer ass, 5:02.
DeleteI think many of us are entering into the "summer vacation mode" as well and there just isn't a lot of time to stay tuned while traveling and pulling up stakes for the holiday season.
DeleteDGM never has anything of substance to add to any comment section. He only scolds.
DeleteGryphen:
DeleteRest assured that you still have your supporters and there are many of us! You have been spot on w/regard to the idgit from Alaska!
Palin having zero voice has been the object to all of this and we're there! Hell of a job and thank you!
Or because of insults, personal attacks and basic denial of U.S. constitutional rights. OH, and let's not forget the generalizations, like all of Bernie's supporters are clueless college students busy getting high.
DeleteSure we have free speech, but Bernie should shut up. Yeah, you can run for office but if you're not a Democrat you should just go away.
Oh there is a never ending stream of Palin gossip. Tracks girfriend is pregnant and this month he has a court hearing.Meanwhile we have Newsmax proclaiming Palin as the number 1 most influential female Republican.
DeleteLike shit on a shoe you can scrape Palin off but the smell still lingers. She is still a representative of what is wrong with a society that bases looks above substance, men get by much more lightly women, not so much.
Fortunately her looks are fading and she is getting too old to play the sexy religious slut who would do you anyway if God deemed it. She will always have an audience of the crazy like Tammy Faye Baker. She should start her own wig line and sell them on QVC or Home Shopping.
Check this BS out.
http://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/727129
Palin is infotainment. She has set herself up to be exactly that with her reality tv shows. That's all she ever wanted to be is some sort of celebrity if a camera isn't in her face she dies a slow death. She must be desperate about now begging Trump to let her have the stage at his rally's so she can stick her face out there. She ought to stick her face at Track's trial and she should have stuck her chipmunk face at home when Todd had his "snowmachine" accident without Trump having to tell her to go home.Nothing, and i mean nothing gets in the way of old Sarah's ambition. If she thinks Melania Trump wants her butt around and her po dunk family will be invited to dine with the Trumps than she is dumber than i thought. It's not going to happen Palin.
DeleteWhy hasn't she appeared with "The Donald" since her last fiassco? because she tried to make it the Sarah Palin show and wants to grab the headlines. No way, Trump actually may out do her in the ego camera hog department.
We could all take it upon ourselves to post the ubiquitous comments regarding Palin as the precursor to Trump...bloggers and pundits from the Left to the Right seem to agree on that one thing...She is to blame...the 'John the Baptist' as it were to his 'Messiah'!
DeleteShiiiit. Trump has been around waaaaay longer than Palin 9:50. They are not even in the same league nor the same animal. If you are the type to worry about a Trump presidency, well then you should be, he can pull it off.
DeleteIs this the guy in Chinatown who could get you a hand?
ReplyDeleteWait no, it's the Tax Policy Center predicting %5 economic growth under Bernie's plan.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/analysis-senator-bernie-sanderss-tax-proposals/full
My suppose and I would pay $1000 a month more under Bernie's plans. If everyone is paying another $12,000 a year, yes there would be growth for some, but others would be buried under this plan. Seriously. I do not mind paying taxes for services, but I refuse to pay a thousand a month to fund his 'free college' stuff. My kids left college 15 years ago with no debt-one from a Big 10 school and the other a private school and then law school. She was a National Merit Scholar who got free tuition at a private college, and then law school, and he benefitted from the savings plans we had in place from the day they were born-even had money left for the down payment on their first home. College does not have to put people in debt-make sure your kids are paying attention and doing their best in high school. There is money out there. Save money while they are young. Ask relatives to help fund their education instead of giving them useless gifts. Have them get a job when they are old enough and put half away for college. I truly think helping pay for their education makes them appreciate it more.
DeleteBernie's plans, while idealistic, place MORE burden on the middle class. We're already paying our fair share. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind paying my FAIR SHARE. Taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized society. When BS can come up with a real policy to relieve the middle class disproportionate burden and bring the 1% back into paying their fair share, then I might change my mind about him.
DeleteThe Bern doesn't support down ticket Democratic candidates. He's been in government for over 30 years so he's just as much "establishment" as every other candidate except (shudder) Trump. Seems Bernie thought he could just sign up under the DNC and reap the benefits without doing anything to support down ticket.
More than anything else, "the Berned" have turned me off Sanders. "Bernie or bust", I hope they learn to love President tRump because a no vote for the D candidate is a vote for tRump.
You are 100% correct, IM! Bernie Sanders is dividing the Democratic party and he's not even a Democrat!
ReplyDeleteI can hardly wait to vote for Hillary Clinton, as our next POTUS! She is far, far better prepared for the office than is Bernie.
Bernie would bring nothing but increased taxation to the American taxpayers and they are too stupid to even realize it.
Nothing is FREE young Americans!
If we were to make basic State college educations free to the masses then the degrees would be worth even less than they are now, which is basically nothing.
DeleteWe have moved towards charter or private schooling to give our children K-12 educations that are preparing them for college from the time they are in 8th grade. Private college bachelor degrees are still worth something in the job market, but kids graduating on the average grade scale from State schools are still finding trouble in the job market.
If we make State schooling free we'll pump out a lot more graduates with bachelor degrees that are worth even less than they are now.
We can give every kid a bachelors for free, however they still won't be able to compete in the larger market. It's basically a null point argument.
Although I'm also a Hillary supporter, I could live with increased taxation on certain groups of people. I could even live with it for myself if I got services in return--the way taxation is supposed to work--instead of subsidizing the tax breaks for billionaires and corporations. I would gladly pay $100 a month extra in taxes if it saved me $200 a month in health insurance.
DeleteNo, charter and vochers don't necessarily prepare a kid - most charters are garbage. And the divide, as it is now in K-12 would be between elite private schools and meh publics.
Deleteand yes, it would further devalue a college degree - but it still depends on what degree you get from which public uni.
@ Nancy, but you want more than you are willing to pay in meaning someone else is going to get less than they pay in for. Sorry, there are no free rides in life.
DeleteFolks I know from Vermont, who lived in Burlington while he was mayor, will not vote for him...they say he does not have the skills to be a Chief Executive...I have until May 17 to vote...those I know with connections to Hillary say that anyone who has worked for her is fiercely loyal...what to do? who to choose?
DeleteI agree with you, Nancy at 6:04 pm. My husband and I have both said often that taxes should be higher but only if they pay for things that are needed: locally for roads and public services; statewide for education and infrastructure (roads again here in Michigan); and nationally for education, social services and infrastructure. We'd love to see single payor healthcare but it's unlikely in this country for decades to come because of costs and the irrational fears that have become ingrained in the American psyche - thanks to the GOP and their industry cohorts.
DeleteHillary Clinton will get our votes in November because she understands the complexities of the real world of US politics. Bernie Sanders does not seem to have been aware of his surroundings all the while he's been in Congress.
We used to have some respect for Sanders but that has evaporated as he's come across as a grumpy one-issue old man. Rosy promises that have little likelihood in becoming real may have helped Sanders find avid supporters but they will remain unfulfilled if the Sanders' wish list ever faces the reality of the US Congress and the courts.
Beaglemom
A lot of these dumb Sanders supporters would not graduate from college even if it were free. There's a lot more to college than just paying for it. It requires much hard work and discipline. These people won't admit that though, they just want to say that they were "held back" for some foolish reason. I'm not buying it.
ReplyDeleteYou really don't have an effing clue, do you? There are a ton of qualified people who simply can't do college because of the logistics and archaic system we have in place for student grants and loans. For example, many schools practically shut down i summer, a time when many people would be better able to take some classes. We demand that they take 6-12 hours to get funding. Most adult students would be better off working their way through a class or two at a time, instead of the "traditional" 18 y o schedule.
Deleteand stop the farce that is online "education." it doesn't work.
Yeah, I'll never graduate from college because I think two masters degrees is enough.
DeleteI teach online classes for a brick and mortar school. I teach the same exact curriculum as my in-house courses. The program is for non-traditional students who otherwise couldn't complete their degrees because they work full time and/or have other barriers. Online education can and does work very well if it's administered correctly.
DeleteMy online students take full course loads. Taking one or two courses at a time means it would take a decade to complete a bachelor's degree.
There are lots of qualified people who don't attend college due to finances and other logistics. There are also a lot of Palins & Johnstons of the world who simply are not intelligent or disciplined enough to get a degree. My taxes should not pay for these morons to screw around for 7 years at 5 different colleges before they realize that they don't have what it takes. Exhibit A is Sarah Palin.
DeleteInteresting.... some of you are starting to sound like conservatives touting personal accountability and responsibility. It is the best way I promise you.
DeleteBeing a liberal doesn't mean doing away with accountability and responsibility. It's about leveling the playing field and giving a helping hand when someone needs it. That's the difference between conservatives and liberals.
DeleteIs Bernie Sanders making demands from the Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton on the Rachel Maddow Show (right now) if he is not nominated president?
ReplyDeleteBernie said if he ends up with 45 to 50% of the delegates, he wants 45 to 50% of "OUR" people on key committees.
So why is he continuing the race?
Only to blackmail Hillary and guarantee jobs for Bernie, his wife and his "people" in President Hillary's administration?
The guy makes me want to regurgitate! Everything he wants to do has to have approval from the U.S. Congress and, if passed, would increase taxes on American taxpayers.
DeleteIt tain't gonna happen!
No 5:24 that is about key committees at the DNC convention
DeleteI think what is going on between the Democratic candidates right now is normal procedure. They have both received lots of support during the primary so Bernie just wants to make sure that he has some influence on the party platform. He has earned that. Even though I've supported Hillary from the beginning, Bernie should be able to negotiate for things that are important to him and to those who voted for him.
DeleteI agree this is normal procedure. I don't, however, like hearing him trying to de-ligitimize the process and Clinton as the ultimate nominee.
DeleteThe platforms announced by the Democratic Party every four years are very liberal. Bernie Sanders is not going to have much effect. Maybe he never looked over a Democratic platform before.
DeleteBeaglemom
Hillary I will ask my wife for her permission if I can quit only if you agree to make me your vp:
ReplyDelete1. I will gracefully bow out of the presidential race.
2. I will guarantee I will endorse you.
3. I will call off the Bernie Dogs and tell them to vote for you.
Only on condition if we keep this deal between you and me.
Also my wife wants a job as your Education Czar, a presidential administration signing bonus, rides on Air Force One (for Bernie, Jane, kids and grandchildren) and sleep overs at the White House for the above.
Deal Or No Deal?
I like Bernie . He is a cute old man with some great dreams of what could be. Unfortunately he is dreaming while awake. He doesn't seem to under stand that we have to live in a world that is not ideal and there is a demigod wannabe dictator who is trying to take over the USA and I would not doubt that he is megalomaniac enough to believe he can rule the world. In this scenerio we need a candidate that is slightly less progressive than bernie is to rally the disenfranchised Republicans to vote with us. I wish we could come together soon so we do not have to live under a Trump presidency.
ReplyDeleteOn the Rachel Maddow Show, Bernie Sanders, Independent from Vermont, is looking for jobs for "his people" and himself. If no guarantee he will continue his fight.
ReplyDeleteFUCK YOU BERNIE SANDERS
-America
You sound like a Trump supporter.
DeleteDo we really want to lower ourselves to the behavior of the Republican party?
He HAS a job. He's a US Senator until 2018. I really think sitting Governors and Congressmen should not be able to run for POTUS, or they should NOT be drawing their salaries when they are not working.
DeleteSo Bernie Sanders is continuing his losing presidential race and using our $27 to get a job as vp and jobs for his campaign staff? Now the truth comes out.
ReplyDeleteHe may be using your $27, but he isn't using any of my money.
DeleteI sincerely hope Hillary Clinton doesn't pick Bernie Sanders to run w/her! He will bring down the ticket!
ReplyDeleteBernie is already talking about life after his defeat
ReplyDeleteI'm confused. Is Bernie Sanders a Democrat, Independent or just a grumpy old man?
ReplyDeleteI think you nailed 2 out of 3, he's a grumpy independent old man.
DeleteBernie, if u want to be leader of the Democrats, become one and do ur homework. U Independants need to stick it out AS Independent. Not just all of a sudden decide that u r a Democrat because ur sorry old ass couldn't be elected otherwise.
DeleteI guess what I am saying is r u going to change platforms every time the wind changes directions?
5:26 said
ReplyDeleteAlso my wife wants a job as your Education Czar, a presidential administration signing bonus, rides on Air Force One (for Bernie, Jane, kids and grandchildren) and sleep overs at the White House for the above.
Deal Or No Deal?
NO DEAL!
I don't think Bernie would bring down the ticket as Hillary's VP but I would rather see a younger VP who would gain valuable experience serving in her administration.
ReplyDeleteCAN YOU SAY TRUMP ADMINISTRATION NEPOTISM?
ReplyDeleteGawker:
In Keeping With Landlord Custom, Donald Trump's Son-in-Law Has Other People Do His Dirty Work For Him
Brendan O'Connor
Yesterday 12:35pm
Now that Donald Trump really is the presumptive Republican nominee for president, it has become necessary to contemplate who might be part of a Trump administration—people such as his son-in-law, New York City real estate’s golden boy, Jared KushneHj...
Kushner’s father-in-law has sung his praises on the campaign trail, as well. “Jared is a great young man, went to Harvard, very smart, doing a fantastic job in business, he’s in the real estate business and has done an amazing job,” Trump said at a campaign rally in January, describing him as a “very, very successful real estate entrepreneur in Manhattan.”
Kushner has also been accused of tenant harassment—trying to force tenants in rent-regulated units out of buildings he owns, so he can renovate them and list them at higher monthly rates....
As it happens, tenant harassment is something of a Trump family tradition: Donald Trump was accused of harassing tenants throughout the ‘70s and ‘80s. (So too was his father.) In fact, in 1973, the Justice Department sued Donald Trump for racial discrimination. In 1985, when New York City sued him for mistreating tenants, the Times called Trump a “slumlord.”
Read more at
http://gawker.com/in-keeping-with-landlord-custom-donald-trumps-son-in-l-1774869782
I'm surprised to read you've lost visitors. I would have guessed the BernieBros added hundreds of readers.
ReplyDeleteAgree! I'm always in "discussions" with at least two of them. I cannot say I've found it to be very enlightening, though.
DeleteMaybe Trump will select him, since all Bernie has done is attack Hillary and has left the GOP candidates alone.
ReplyDeleteBernie's starting to sound like a gentleman. The GOP's new nominee just dug up the affairs of Bill Clinton, Elizabeth Warren's native american background, and Hillary destroying the women Bill cheated with.
ReplyDeleteThe pot calling the kettle black. The orange haired fool thought they were so nasty, he invited both to his wedding. Can't wait for her to take him head on.
Hey Dunkoff, cite your sources, show your proof. Wasn't Ivana pregnant during your marriage? What did you tell her to do "about it"? http://chronicle.su/2015/08/08/donald-trumps-ex-wives-speak-out-on-forced-abortions/
Hillary to raise over a billion. Trump can't possibly self fund anymore, his supporters are going to light their pitchforks, he's worth nowhere near what his supporters believed.
ReplyDeleteNo matter what happens, Hillary's general election lead will decrease. The media will make sure of it; they need an exciting horse race.
ReplyDeleteHillary's approval rating was 66% when she left the Sec. of State position and before the media helped promote the conspiracy theories. Her approval may not get that high during the campaign but it will go up enough for her to win.
Did you see that Gen. Wesley Clark (Ret) has endorsed Hillary? He's the one who hosted Mark Burnett's Stars Earn Stripes show (featuring Todd Palin).
I hate watching how the media is playing this race. To include MSNBC and Rachel Maddow. Anything for ratings! Fucking crazy and total bullshit! Chris Matthews makes me want to barf and I find Chris Hayes to be totally condescending!
DeleteBe informed American voters. Especially Democrats! Get out the vote throughout your communities and the country!
Just had an awful thought. CA has an open primary. Now that the GOP primary doesn't matter, Trump fans might vote for Bernie because they know he'd be an easy opponent.
ReplyDeleteCA is a semi -open primary. It's not completely open. You have to vote on the ballot of your registered party OR if you are a registered non-partisan voter (NP), you can request a ballot from Democrats, GOP, etc. I think registration closes May 23. So an independent would gave to be registered as NP first to request a ballot from another party. (Correct me if I'm wrong, please, fellow CA voters!)
Delete7:16 pm - You're right! The open primary applies only to the state-wide offices (since 2012) and it's semi-open for the presidential primary ballot.
DeleteI don't see how it is a "semi-open primary" if a registered non-partisan voter can choose either ballot. The Republicans should choose the GOP candidate and the Democrats should choose the Democratic candidate. Whether they call themselves "independents" or "non-partisans" they are people who are unwilling to pay enough attention to what's going on in the world of politics to choose where their personal sympathies lie and should not have a say in party decisions. Their right to choose comes in November.
DeleteBeaglemom
@7:01
ReplyDelete"Her approval may not get that high during the campaign but it will go up enough for her to win."
Maybe so,maybe not...
http://ktul.com/news/election/email-controversy-poses-general-election-threat-for-clinton-even-if-no-charges-filed
Trump to testify AFTER election in the Trump University trial - https://twitter.com/ap/status/728697925417771008
DeleteO/T tonight Chris Hayes had Drumpfs 1990 "bankruptcy" (yes another one apparently) on air that was handled by his bankers who wanted their money. Drumpf was so far in debt and the bank put him on an allowance and kept him there until they got their money.
ReplyDeleteHowever, during that same time period Drumpf was on air spewing how wealthy he was.
Simple fix. It's not what you say. It's how you say it. Even if or when Sanders decides to bow out, it is no place of any Clinton supporter to tell anyone who they should or should not vote for or that they are stupid, childish, immature for supporting someone differently than you.
ReplyDeleteYou're assuming anyone that is not a Clinton supporter is not capable of making rational decisions, yet you are unaccepting of the fact that millions of people decided differently than you did on who THEY feel the next president should be.
Although I'm quite comfortable to voice my opposing views here on IM, however, I do understand the "Fuck You" exodus you've experienced on your blog. No one likes to be told how they feel and what they believe doesn't matter ... you know, the same stuff you repeatedly advocate for regarding people who practices their faiths differently and people who love differently (i.e. religious freedom and LGBTQ rights.) However, for some reason, that same plea does not apply to people who vote differently than you.
Damn shame if you ask me.
My choice is final just as yours has been from day one.
I chose Bernie. You chose Hillary. Demeaning me and belittling my reasons for doing so is a reflection of your bullying past that you speak of quite often so I know why it resonates so easily with you. Does it stop me from believing in my candidate? Hell no!
Your candidate choice is flawed and so is mine. I just find it hilarious that the argument that Bernie is not a real Democrat is lobbied at his supporters like flame throwers when everyone seems to keep forgetting --- the Democratic Party negotiated with him for months to craft what they called a winning strategy for Clinton. They never expected in a million years Sanders would actually become competitive.
In other words, just another fine example of Clinton's pattern of behavior and decision making skills that always seem to backfire on her.
So not looking forward to her bumbling through the next four years as President. Vagina be damned! Like her supporters, I don't need to carry a card to prove my strength as a woman. Her voting record on serious issues have been crappy and Sanders has done a fantastic job giving voice to those of us sick of all her "covered up" bullshit.
Why hasn't Bernie released his tax returns? What is he hiding? How will Bernie pay for all of his FREE STUFF? When you find the answers, come back and play.
DeleteWhy are you accusing Gryph? He states his views as he is allowed because it IS his blog. Has he ever come after you? No, and all viewpoints are welcome else your post would not be here.
DeleteVote your conscience. It's our right.
Wow...nine paragraphs of pissing and moaning, with barely a hint of why you prefer Bernie over Hillary, other than your reference to her "crappy" record. Please elaborate.
DeleteThank you for staying around Superfan in Atlanta!
DeleteI came here long ago looking for more information about the Palin family and stayed because of the other topics Gryphen writes about and for comments from people like you and a few others.
People who fled this blog because of the sometimes caustic atmosphere in the comments will probably come back after a break. I hope they do. I miss their comments as well.
"covered up?" She is the most transparent of the three remaining candidates. I saw Bernie with Rachel last night. Still pie in the sky with no specifics. "How long would all your plans take?" she asked. "Well, we would get it done. We need thousands of Americans to get involved and hold Congress accountable." Yeah, right, Bernie. People have lives and jobs and small children. They have health issues and elderly parents to take care of. YOU hold Congress acceptable. What have you done in 30 years but talk? Why haven't you been able to get a darn thing done, even when it was briefly held by Democrats? What would change?
DeleteAnd since when is Hillary responsible for the DNC? And what negotiations? Good grief, you are reciting RNC talking points.
Where are his tax returns? Why do you not look beyond "I voted against the Iraq War" to see other cases when he voted FOR war? Bernie is no saint. He's not a pragmatist either.
Yes, you have every right to support him, but do at least know what you're supporting. Look beyond the dreams and promises. Can he deliver? Could it be that Hillary is promising less but will deliver more?
You know nothing about Bernie Sanders because you take his words at face value. He has voted to defund the military, he has sat on his ass for 35 years sucking up a paycheck and benefits we taxpayers give him for maybe 3 bills he has put forward, his tax plan will cost you more than $10K per year extra, and he has proven he knows nothing about many areas that he needs to to be president (much like Trump).
DeleteYOU need to do some deep digging into your candidate and take off those rose colored glasses so firmly fixed to your face. I know Clinton's flaws, they are all out there to see in plain sight and have been for 30 plus years. Bernie, not so much, you have to dig to find his shit and it is piled DEEP.
Bumbling? Are you kidding me?
DeleteYou can say a lot of things about Hillary Clinton, but bumbling is not one of them.
Sarah Silverman will eventually vote for Hillary - https://twitter.com/sarahksilverman/status/728796285357199360
ReplyDeleteWe need to be realistic here. Bernie Sanders cant win.
ReplyDeleteNow it comes down to who is the closest representative of your principles. Here are the choices whether we like it or not. Trump or Clinton.This is the reality we are stuck with. I only know Trump would be a total disaster I can't speak for Gryphen but i don't think he means to put down Bernie Sanders supporters and maybe he should address that. I assume that anyone who likes his blog surely is against Trump and i also know that no one who posts here is left out or censored and we can blow off steam, state our case and that is why i stay with this blog.
My daughters, in their mid-30's, tell me they have lost friends from high-school and college, just because they post to Facebook that they are as yet undecided between Sanders and Clinton...
ReplyDeleteI loved Bernie, but here's where he lost me. http://election2016.taxpolicycenter.org/2016/03/25/voxs-new-presidential-tax-calculator/
ReplyDeleteAccording to this tax calculator, Trump would save me about $7300 in taxes. I DON'T WANT it, because I know it would come right out of education and the EPA. Hillary Clinton would tax me about a dollar a day. Bernie? $11,430. Almost $1000 a month.
I have a vacation home, and I'd have to sell it. I understand that wouldn't be a great hardship. But I'd be pulling a lot of money out of the economy. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who couldn't afford their vacation home with $1000 less a month. Then we'd have a glut of homes on the market, lowering their value. And we're not travelling back and forth between our vacation homes. We're not stopping for a bite to eat, not going out on the town, not doing home improvements, not putting our money back into the economy.
I am not one of Bernie's "super-rich"; I make about half what he makes. Yet he wants $1000 a month from me. If I thought it would make the economy boom, I'd give up my vacation house. But that's just counterintuitive.
Bernie claiming he is one of the people is a joke, he makes more than double what I do and we are on a fixed income (he will make buckets o his speaking tour... you watch) and we wil have our taxes go up $9780 with Sanders and $110 with Clinton. Based on that and her experience and ability to actually work instead of sitting on her ass, I am a Clinton supporter all the way.
DeleteI can't afford another $1000 a month in taxes. I'm sorry, but if it comes down to my family eating or getting medicine vs "free education", guess what, my family wins every time.
Delete@ anon 3:11 am
DeleteWellI make about what Bernie does, but what I can't figure out is how he paid 13 % in taxes when I paid double that. Oh, and he wants to raise my taxes by 1/3rd of what I already pay.
And it would mean selling everything we have and have worked for. WE do have some rental properties, but they were supposed to be part of our retirement plan ( we are retired). And I don't think that everything we saved, scrimped, planned, for decades needs to go to those who want everything handed to them.
Also, I think he followers have no clue what lower income people would do without banks. No car loans and no mortgage loans would make sure a working person would never own either. Back to the days of company buses to work and living in company housing not much above slavery since you would be charged what the company chose to charge you and then of course you could never say a word or you would lose your job, your place to live and the few possessions you had.
I like Bernie Sanders, if he does somehow come out as the nominee, I will gladly cast my vote for him. I don’t agree with the free college business because (as others have pointed out) a degree will not be worth much more than a high school diploma. We need to get back to educating so kids who will know how to count back change, write a complete sentence and have critical thinking skills.
ReplyDeleteOur infrastructure needs desperate help. We need to spend the money to fix & improve roads, bridges, airports, rail, public buildings, and schools. How can other countries construct these things and we can’t? Is it just our political parties warring with each other or we the trillions for the war machine?
Hillary has her good points: foreign policy, former senator, political network of contacts & advisors. However, she also carries a chit-load of baggage that we know about. One of my biggest fears is that something will fall out of the closet (true or not, because this is going to get dirty real fast), and whatever Trump decides is his ace in the hole, will sink the election for the Blue Team.
I do agree with Bernie wanting a fair number of representation at the Platform Table during the convention. If he can’t get the nomination, at least bring some of his ideas to the table. Perhaps there will be an olive branch of VP. However, he could do more (like Eliz. Warren) in the senate making sure things get done rather than be under Clinton’s thumb as VP.
Either way, I am on the Blue Team, no matter who the nominee is, because this country cannot allow a Trump presidency.
Remember when you were starved for something to eat, but neither dining choice sounded good, so you decided not to eat at all? Makes about as much sense as not voting in the general election because you don't like what's on the menu.
ReplyDeleteAt the risk of being attacked for my views, I must say that many of Bernie Sanders' supporters simply do not understand how national politics works. And I'm not talking about politics negatively here.
ReplyDeleteMost of us Democrats were surprised that Bernie Sanders chose to run for president as a Democrat but we accepted his decision because we really did not know much about him. But months and months of hearing him, watching him and reading about him has shown that he really is a very shallow candidate and not willing to be a Democrat at all. In fact, he's running again as an independent for reelection to the Senate in Vermont. (Is there no Democratic Party in Vermont?) He has little or no interest in foreign affairs, does not seem to understand that economics, while it underlies everything, does not define all of life in the US. He seems unable to make policy proposals that could actually work and he does not seem to care about how the "cultural issues" (race, gender, etc.) affect people at a core level. Bernie Sanders has made this voter wonder if he's been asleep all those years in Congress. Sanders' inability to control his supporters and his demeanor as an angry old man who is unwilling to compromise about anything are untenable attributes in a president. So, I came to this election cycle with a fairly open mind, but I'm ending it with a mind made up.
That's what the seemingly unending election process in this country is supposed to be all about: the building of a consensus by the time of the convention. And, after the convention, we need to come together as Democrats (Sanders and Clinton supporters together) and work for the candidate chosen there. If Bernie Sanders' supporters do not join with other Democrats during the coming campaign to elect Democratic candidates at every level, we will lose and the country will fall into the hands of Donald Trump, the Koch brothers and the GOP. The country and the world cannot afford that. This election cycle matters.
Beaglemom
Gryphen makes a good point. As he points out the Democratic voters need to show that we can work together and that is not what we are seeing in this blogs' comment section. According to those posting comments, Bernie supporters are idiots or Hillary supporters are wearing blinders. Well guess what? Each person gets to vote for whomever they want based on their own opinion. And it is unnecessary to call each other names in these discussions.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that Bernie Sanders has the temperament to be vice president. It requires that one be committed to the policies of the president and be able to get along with people, including members of both parties in Congress. Joe Biden has been the quintessential vice president - knowledgable about the issues, interested in working with the president on many projects including those related to the military, well respected by members of Congress, and willing to get along with people. I simply cannot see Bernie Sanders doing any of those things. And his wife could never be as successful as Jill Biden, all the while teaching college students. We have had almost eight years of the perfect combination of president and vice president and their wives have been just as remarkable.
ReplyDeleteBeaglemom
I agree, Beaglemom.
ReplyDeleteBernie the uniter? Hell no! Bernie and his 'bros', the dividers.
ReplyDeleteI don't see how you expect Bernie supports to unite for Hillary when Hillary and her supporters have done nothing but to insult Bernie's supporters as being dumb, naive, wanting free stuff etc. Most of the Bernie supporters I know are 40 and older. We care about healthcare for all, and campaign finance, and minimal wage. Hillary isn't taking the issues that matters to us seriously, so how can we take her seriously? I am also tired of reading comments attacking Palins (although not a fan of them) seriously, you criticize Trump for his rude comments, but behave the same way about Palins.
ReplyDeleteI also care about healthcare for all, campaign finance, minimum wage. To me, Clinton has a better handle on how to get from where we are to where we need to go. You disagree. That's fine. It bothers me when I hear Sanders supporters suggesting that Clinton supporters don't care about those things.
DeleteMeanwhile, Sanders doesn't seem to be taking seriously reproductive rights, women's rights, child poverty, or the intersection of race/gender and economics. See? It goes both ways.
Well, I'm done too. I was waiting it out, hoping that eventually a reasoned debate would emerge to replace the cult of personality associated with the Clintons. Apparently that's not going to happen. It doesn't have to be Sanders vs. Clinton, but Sanders' ideas vs. Clinton's. Nope. Everything is personal. In an earlier post today you say that a 3rd part would be great, but only if it's a Tea Party, which would damage the Repubs. A left-leaning party would shave votes from the Dems.
ReplyDeleteAs long as your position is that Hillary is untouchable no matter what, I'm out. After nine years I didn't think we could have such severe differences to the point of being unhealable. It's a shame.
It couldn't be further from the truth that Gryphen or any of us thing Clinton is untouchable.
DeleteIt's funny to me that people think Clinton has a cult of personality, but Sanders doesn't.
I've not met any Clinton supporter who thinks she is perfect or infallible.
I can't say the same for Sanders supporters.
The current state of IM comes after months of having Sanders supporters call our preferred candidate a liar, a bitch, crooked, pure evil, etc.. It comes after months of being told we are stupid, uninformed, shills, oligarchs, etc..
Meanwhile, early on I never said anything bad about Sanders except that I preferred Clinton. After a while, I criticized him on his ill-conceived (in my opinion) plans. And now, on his insistence that the process is rigged.
I'm sorry anyone feels they need to leave IM over this primary. I took a break for a while because there was one particular Sanders supporter who would let loose with a wall of text, filled with accusations, insults, and sexism (yes, actual sexism). He left, thankfully.
I miss Jon Stewart. (And I'm glad I have HBO Now.)
ReplyDeleteSamantha Bee should have been offered The Daily Show.
Trevor Noah. Meh.