I usually do not post videos that are this long but I did this time because I found this interview to be very interesting in that it explains what Aslan believes about the existence of Jesus, how much of what we think we know about Jesus is accurate, and how he, a scholar who studies religions, can remain an adherent of Islam.
Essentially Aslan is saying that nobody is supposed to take what is written in the Bible literally, including the words attributed to Jesus, but that what was written was supposed to provide a description of what the authors wanted readers to believe went on and describe the kind of man that people already believed Jesus to be.
He essentially says that where modern believers go wrong is in their desire to take what is written in the Bible as literal fact, when in fact it is Gospel truth, in that it is meant to impart a deeper "truth" about who they believed Jesus and other Biblical figures were rather than to paint an accurate picture of who they were and what they said.
Personally I find that explanation fascinating. To me it appears that the first step toward understanding the teachings in the Bible, or Quran, is to simply have faith, and to read them from that perspective, since without faith the books are of no value, either historically or as factual account of the lives of the characters within.
Since I simply cannot get past that first hurdle, my readings of the Bible have left me confused and sorely unimpressed.
Now another thing that Cenk Uygur was able to get out of Aslan, is the answer to a question that has been driving me crazy since I saw his first interview concerning this book.
You see Aslan has essentially destroyed one of my most personally held beliefs about the study of religion. And that is that somebody who REALLY studied religion, and compared them to one another, simply could NOT continue to be a person of faith.
Aslan's answer still leaves me with a lot of question about his faith, but it does answer the question, to some degree, as to how a learned individual could still believe in a supernatural being "beyond the materiel world."
I especially enjoyed this quote "Anyone who says 'I believe in Christianity' or I believe in Islam' misses the point. Christianity and Islam are not 'things to believe' they are signposts to God. They are a means to an end, not an end in and of themselves."
I don't think this is the way much of Christianity is presented in this country, but it does make some sense.
Of course I still don't find myself compelled to believe any of it, but at least I can respect a learned person wanting to find a way to relate to something that they take on faith alone.
Excellent post and thanks for sharing your viewpoints Gryphen. I like the idea of the major religions being a "signpost" to a higher being, if someone believes in a higher being. Keep up the thought provoking posts on the topic of religion!
ReplyDeleteTake away the my tribe (sports team, school, town, dog) is bigger, better than yours competitive aspect, especially in the US and you lose a LOT of religious adherents. take away the social/conformative aspect and you lose a lot more.
ReplyDeleteRight now, this is Aslan's schtick. Just wait.
Anonymous4:22 AM
DeleteTake away the my tribe (sports team, school, town, dog) is bigger, better than yours competitive aspect, especially in the US and you lose a LOT of religious adherents.
*****
His schtick?
That's nutz.
He is just saying truths. Unless you have studied as he has or actually READ his book STFU.
As a "person of faith," I don't know how to put it into words. I believe what I believe, we all do, through life experience. What I HAVE learned in my half-century-plus on this planet is everyone has their own journey and I try not to judge that which I don't live.
ReplyDeleteWhat I DO detest and judge is hypocrisy. Those in the bully pulpit that scream the loudest would be wise to remember that when one points a finger, there's three pointing back at them.
....and yes, I am talking to YOU, Queen Esther.
DeleteThat was good! Thanks for that.
ReplyDeleteThen the books of the New Testament aren’t much different from fairy tales; a nugget of “truth” imbedded in an interesting story to teach a lesson, not a verifiable “fact.” And the parables of Jesus were stories within the story; lots of truth but not much fact. I like this; it dovetails with my personal experiences.
Why is Jesus worshipped as then, but men like him today are ridiculed at Town Hall Meetings when they talk about living wages, affordable health care and generally defending the 99% by his very "followers?"
ReplyDelete"Pharisee And The Publican." THANK GOD I AM NOT LIKE OTHER PEOPLE....or, as Ann Romney would say, "YOU people."
DeleteI was raised Catholic and had the same sence that the bible was full of analogies- stories to make a point or teachable lesson but these werenot actual historical occurrences
ReplyDeleteRaised Lutheran, the "rebel" Catholics. HA!
DeleteIt's all so ridiculous, isn't it? Some the best people I know in life are atheist, Buddhist, and, yes, (gasp) Muslim.
Yes, also, too. Non-believing Baptist married to a raised Lutheran. Sunday School was a "You got to be kidding me experience for both of us."
DeleteRJ in Brownbackistan
The problem is that these stories are related to the congregation as "Jesus said...." or, "according to Luke 5,8....." In other words, hey believe that their minister/pastor/priest etc. is repeating what was actually said 2,000 years ago.
ReplyDeleteBut if the minister told his flock that these were simply allegorical stories meant to make a point about how to live one's life, then the very supports for belief in an omnipotent being would basically disappear.
Being an atheist I have problems with religions, but still have appreciated the inapt spirituality and humanity of individuals such as the Dali Lama and Bishop Gene Robinson (non-retired) — the first openly gay bishop in the Episcopal Church. Recently in an interview with Teri Gross (NPR's Fresh Air) he spoke on the difference between God and religion.
ReplyDelete"I think people often come to the synagogue, mosque, the church looking for God, and what we give them is religion. And I think that is a huge mistake, and sometimes we let our ... fussing around with the institution get in the way of what people came for, which is help in facilitating their ... access and relationship with God. On the other hand, if you go off by yourself, then it can become a kind of narcissistic enterprise, and you don't have people around you constantly testing your understanding of God. ... [T]hat's what makes me believe in the church, in the synagogue, in the mosque, because that's the community of people that can help us understand better what our perceived relationship with God is, and test it against all those many ways in which we can try to shape it out of our own personality."
"our own personality." Exactly. So, who's to say who's right and who's wrong? We ALL strive to find meaning and purpose.
DeleteRobinson makes a pretty big leap(unsubstantiated and self serving) when he suggests that those who seek spiritual experience outside of organized religion "can become narcissistic"!
DeleteWhy do we need others to "test us?" The whole point is to grow within ourselves and share the love with others.
Just because he is openly gay does not mean he is openly liberated.
Agreed, but for the struggle gay people have TO come out and say,"I AM" has to be very liberating knowing the crap they might have to live for admitting so. That's how I took it.
DeleteThe "near death" experience seems to be the trump card that Godists like to play. Well, there may be a scientific explanation for "seeing the light"
ReplyDeletehttp://news.discovery.com/human/health/brain-activity-shows-basis-of-near-death-experience-130813.htm
Love the final line of the article (studies were done on lab rats)
"But if one believes that (near death experience), then one should also conclude the afterlife includes a lot of lab mice."
I recall a professor's translation of what is translated in the King James as "Thy Word is Truth".In the oldest surviving Greek translation,the phrase translates "The life of Christ on Earth is a physical manifestation of the true nature of God".....oh those Ancients....so cerebral...:-)
ReplyDeleteAslan is saying something I learned at 14. You can study the great religious texts of the world and find commonalities and shared truths. These texts were not meant to be taken literally, but to be stories to learn from. Though through my reading and studying I became less religious, I consider myself to be much more spiritual now.
ReplyDeleteSame here. I grew up Catholic, went to a Benedictine college, and learned that the Bible is literature full of moral lessons and not literal history. It has parables, poetry, erotica (Song of Songs), epics with heroic figures like Moses, wisdom literature. I re-read the Book of Ecclesiastes at least once a month. Helps me keep a healthy perspective.
DeleteI'm sort of an agnostic these days, but with a spiritual core. I'll never be an atheist because no thinking person can be certain about an existential issue of such scope. Karen Armstrong writes a lot about the heart of all the great faiths being compassion, and they all have a version of the Golden Rule.
So I keep reading and searching, always with an open mind.
Faith is an individual choice. I believe in God, but it is none of my business to shove that personal choice of belief on others! I totally hate the way this country is being run into the ground by the religious right. Religion has NO place in the political arena and people like Sarah Palin give Christianity a black eye. She is the antithesis of Christianity. She is a greedy, selfish grasper, the opposite of the tenets of the faith. Religions across the world have done tremendous harm to the world. I really hate all organized religion. I could not and would not go back to church unless it was a very liberal inclusive one.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely spectacular interview! So good to hear his views and not just the interviewer's personal belief system. Thanks for the great link!
ReplyDelete"Christianity and Islam are not things to believe, they are signposts to God. They are a means to an end, not an end in themselves"
Gryphen,
ReplyDeleteTHANK YOU so much for posting this vid!
Aslan has to be one of the most knowledgable and articulate theologists ever and this was FASCINATING!
I thoroughly enjoyed this interview, and can't wait to read his book. He's spot on that the Bible isn't the literary "last word". There's a lot of meaning lost in translation interpretation, and individual bias on the parts of the writers and readers.
ReplyDelete"Son of God" meant "king", when the bible says someone lived a hundred years, they just meant he lived a long time... etc.
Cenk's technique gave this man the honor and respect deserved as a religious historian, Fox just boosted his sales with their myopic, totally unfounded attacks.
I feel like religion succeeds when it gets people to think about something outside themselves for a few hours every week. It fails when it requires people to hate or condemn others for no reason. Like the dali lama said in a meme that appeared on my Facebook feed recently -- kindness is my temple!
ReplyDeleteThe book is similar to the earlier free online book called Devil or Delusion? The danger of Christianity to democracy, freedom and science - except that the devil or delusion book correctly explains how Paul created Christianity for a Roman audience as mentioned in the article above. The devil or delusion book also explains how the story of the resurrection was made up.
ReplyDelete